| Hope everyone is ready 08:06 - Sep 27 with 8846 views | chicoazul |
…for the rolling blackouts, meat rationing, bins collected once a month, fuel shortages, price inflation, and materials shortages of the next 7 months.
Never mind petrol; start panic buying warm blankets.
Still at least Greta will be happy. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:14 - Sep 27 with 1120 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:38 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
If it's produced in a way that is remotely sustainsble it would be both more scarce and much more expensive. People care more about cheap burgers than they do about saving the planet. |
Define “cheap burgers” - waits for the “you know the crap they sell in McDonalds (which incidentally is made from and with the same meat that the luvvies in Waitrose buy - most people buy premium hind quarter cuts and burgers are made from forequarter cuts) |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:19 - Sep 27 with 1109 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:14 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
Define “cheap burgers” - waits for the “you know the crap they sell in McDonalds (which incidentally is made from and with the same meat that the luvvies in Waitrose buy - most people buy premium hind quarter cuts and burgers are made from forequarter cuts) |
You can buy 10 burgers in Asda for £1.62. Do you think that price is possible to achieve through sustainable beef farming? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:19 - Sep 27 with 1110 views | bluefunk |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:24 - Sep 27 by chicoazul |
Panic? |
I’m summarising
Last Monday you posted “Markets will be a bloodbath this week” - they weren’t |  | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:23 - Sep 27 with 1092 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:19 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
You can buy 10 burgers in Asda for £1.62. Do you think that price is possible to achieve through sustainable beef farming? |
I’d question just what is in those burgers for that price……. Probably more danger of running out of wheat for the breadcrumb rusk filler than beef | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:31 - Sep 27 with 1081 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:23 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
I’d question just what is in those burgers for that price……. Probably more danger of running out of wheat for the breadcrumb rusk filler than beef |
That doesn't answer my question. More generally, do you think current levels of meat consumption are environmentally sustainable? | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:33 - Sep 27 with 1075 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:31 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
That doesn't answer my question. More generally, do you think current levels of meat consumption are environmentally sustainable? |
Everything in moderation, what’s your alternative? Meat replaces? Non dairy milks? | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 11:38 - Sep 27 with 1071 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:33 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
Everything in moderation, what’s your alternative? Meat replaces? Non dairy milks? |
Again, you've not really answered my question. Current levels of meat consumption are causing significant damage to the environment. Do you agree? And yes, plant based alternatives are a good solution in many cases. They cause significantly less environmental harm and don't rely on the mistreatment of animals. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:09 - Sep 27 with 1044 views | J2BLUE |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:31 - Sep 27 by Darth_Koont |
I think you change behaviour by taking the low-hanging fruit first and small steps.
Putting aside the health and ethical issues around eating meat, beef and dairy have the biggest negative effects on the environment. And it’s very little to do with cattle transport or farming methods either. The sheer act of converting plant calories into beef or dairy calories is ridiculously inefficient and the CO2 burden way too excessive.
It’s pretty easy to cut out beef completely. But if you can’t do without your roast beef or steak, at least cut out cheap burgers or mince where there are loads of alternatives that have no difference in taste, in fact many taste better.
Similarly with dairy it was surprisingly easy to stop buying milk and use Oatly instead. With tea, coffee and cereal etc. the taste change is fairly negligible. I struggle with cheese but trying different stuff.
Steps like these are tiny, incredibly easy and make a difference. And I think once you start you can reappraise a lot more of these micro-choices and see really how easy they are. |
I would find it hard to believe anyone could tell the difference between cow milk and unsweetened oat milk on their cereal.
Would you be in favour of just paying dairy farmers off to stop them pushing back? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:12 - Sep 27 with 1039 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:09 - Sep 27 by J2BLUE |
I would find it hard to believe anyone could tell the difference between cow milk and unsweetened oat milk on their cereal.
Would you be in favour of just paying dairy farmers off to stop them pushing back? |
Meat and dairy farmers need to be subsidised to switch to crop farming wherever it's feasible for them to do so. People who are battery farming chickens can get in the sea and the warehouses used for paintball or go karting. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:22 - Sep 27 with 1027 views | Darth_Koont |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:09 - Sep 27 by J2BLUE |
I would find it hard to believe anyone could tell the difference between cow milk and unsweetened oat milk on their cereal.
Would you be in favour of just paying dairy farmers off to stop them pushing back? |
Of course, at least in the short term while they switch to other more sustainable agriculture or uses for the land.
It’ll fit in well with other similar programmes that will be needed to shift people away from a whole series of unsustainable jobs or where AI/automation continues to lower the value of human labour.
It’s not doom and gloom either. I think the UK and the world could be a fascinating, exciting and much happier place to be the sooner we start facing up to these realities. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:22 - Sep 27 with 1027 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:38 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Again, you've not really answered my question. Current levels of meat consumption are causing significant damage to the environment. Do you agree? And yes, plant based alternatives are a good solution in many cases. They cause significantly less environmental harm and don't rely on the mistreatment of animals. |
I’ll say 2 things on the subject……. Soy production (used in most meat replacers) and almond milk.
What are your views on those 2? | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:25 - Sep 27 with 1022 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:12 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat and dairy farmers need to be subsidised to switch to crop farming wherever it's feasible for them to do so. People who are battery farming chickens can get in the sea and the warehouses used for paintball or go karting. |
Chickens aren’t battery farmed these days
Chickens are barn reared and even when given the opportunity to roam free they don’t like fields.
I don’t disagree that chicken welfare needs to be improved though | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:27 - Sep 27 with 1010 views | J2BLUE |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:12 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat and dairy farmers need to be subsidised to switch to crop farming wherever it's feasible for them to do so. People who are battery farming chickens can get in the sea and the warehouses used for paintball or go karting. |
Yes, didn't mean for it to come across as if I was opposing that idea.
I think it would be a good use of funds.
Richmond vegan burgers for lunch. They are amazing.
I tried Costa's vegan bacon roll the other day. That was...less amazing. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:28 - Sep 27 with 1010 views | DanTheMan |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:22 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
I’ll say 2 things on the subject……. Soy production (used in most meat replacers) and almond milk.
What are your views on those 2? |
You've just mentioned two products without actually elaborating what you are saying on those things.
Are you saying those things are worse compared to other non-meat / non-dairy alternatives, or worse compared to their traditional counterparts? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:35 - Sep 27 with 1002 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:22 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
I’ll say 2 things on the subject……. Soy production (used in most meat replacers) and almond milk.
What are your views on those 2? |
Most soy production currently is for animal feed, we'd probably need less soy overall if we did away with farming cattle for meat. Almond milk is water intensive, though less so than dairy, but there are other plant based alternatives that use far less water so that's a non-issue. You're really avoiding all of my questions here, I suspect it's because the answers make you feel uncomfortable. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:41 - Sep 27 with 971 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:25 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
Chickens aren’t battery farmed these days
Chickens are barn reared and even when given the opportunity to roam free they don’t like fields.
I don’t disagree that chicken welfare needs to be improved though |
Chickens are still battery farmed: https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/layinghens
I think you need to educate yourself a bit more on this topic, or at least engage in honest debate rather than avoiding it. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:42 - Sep 27 with 967 views | J2BLUE |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:22 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
I’ll say 2 things on the subject……. Soy production (used in most meat replacers) and almond milk.
What are your views on those 2? |
I don't want to drink soy milk and I don't like almond milk.
That leaves about 20 other sorts of plant milk though.
Alpro no sugar oat milk. Have it on your cereal one day and let me know if you can tell the difference. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 12:46 - Sep 27 with 957 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:42 - Sep 27 by J2BLUE |
I don't want to drink soy milk and I don't like almond milk.
That leaves about 20 other sorts of plant milk though.
Alpro no sugar oat milk. Have it on your cereal one day and let me know if you can tell the difference. |
And even if you were all over soy and almond milk you'd still be helping the environment massively in comparison to dairy milk: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46654042.amp
Oat milk is my choice and it's by several times better for the environment than dairy milk on all measures. There's really no debate to be had about whether plant based alternatives are better for the environment than animal based ones so I'm really not sure where Ely is going with this. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:03 - Sep 27 with 922 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 11:19 - Sep 27 by bluefunk |
I’m summarising
Last Monday you posted “Markets will be a bloodbath this week” - they weren’t |
You summarise wrongly. That was a little joke between Bankster and I about some friends of his with money. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:06 - Sep 27 with 913 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:28 - Sep 27 by DanTheMan |
You've just mentioned two products without actually elaborating what you are saying on those things.
Are you saying those things are worse compared to other non-meat / non-dairy alternatives, or worse compared to their traditional counterparts? |
Yes and yes
Soy production is as bad as if not worse than the mass deforestation caused by palm oil production, don’t get me started on the extra reliance on coconut oil/fat in meat free products and how unsustainable and unethical that is.
Almond milk is far more resource hungry than any dairy herd will ever be, just ask the people of California where most of the production comes from | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:08 - Sep 27 with 913 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 12:35 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Most soy production currently is for animal feed, we'd probably need less soy overall if we did away with farming cattle for meat. Almond milk is water intensive, though less so than dairy, but there are other plant based alternatives that use far less water so that's a non-issue. You're really avoiding all of my questions here, I suspect it's because the answers make you feel uncomfortable. |
It doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable in the slightest, I work in the food industry so I know much more from the inside of what goes on than you are gleaning from google | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:13 - Sep 27 with 901 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 13:08 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
It doesn’t make me feel uncomfortable in the slightest, I work in the food industry so I know much more from the inside of what goes on than you are gleaning from google |
I get my information from peer reviewed studies. Maybe you should try it sometime. Most of what you've said on this thread is demonstrably false. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:15 - Sep 27 with 896 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 13:06 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
Yes and yes
Soy production is as bad as if not worse than the mass deforestation caused by palm oil production, don’t get me started on the extra reliance on coconut oil/fat in meat free products and how unsustainable and unethical that is.
Almond milk is far more resource hungry than any dairy herd will ever be, just ask the people of California where most of the production comes from |
You do know that globally around 80% of soy production is to feed livestock? It's another environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry.
Almond milk isn't more resource hungry than dairy, see the link I posted previously. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:23 - Sep 27 with 880 views | Ely_Blue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 13:15 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
You do know that globally around 80% of soy production is to feed livestock? It's another environmental impact of the meat and dairy industry.
Almond milk isn't more resource hungry than dairy, see the link I posted previously. |
Remind me about the lack of water in parts of California because of the almond production and the secondary effects of wildfires and other environmental damage caused by water diversion to farm almonds! | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 13:32 - Sep 27 with 860 views | eireblue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 13:23 - Sep 27 by Ely_Blue |
Remind me about the lack of water in parts of California because of the almond production and the secondary effects of wildfires and other environmental damage caused by water diversion to farm almonds! |
That is a reason to not use Almond Milk from California.
It is not a reason to keep using milk from cows, instead of other alternatives.
As an aside, I had a friend that used to tell people he worked in the Wine Trade. He moved barrels in a warehouse.
Can you explain a little bit more on your role in the food industry, as we know an appeal to authority is a fallacious argument, and you may have a bias if you make money from animal products.
Really we should just be informed by facts. Some of which have been posted already. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 13:34]
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