| Hope everyone is ready 08:06 - Sep 27 with 8841 views | chicoazul |
…for the rolling blackouts, meat rationing, bins collected once a month, fuel shortages, price inflation, and materials shortages of the next 7 months.
Never mind petrol; start panic buying warm blankets.
Still at least Greta will be happy. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 17:44 - Sep 27 with 754 views | chicoazul |
| Hope everyone is ready on 16:55 - Sep 27 by leitrimblue |
I have a weird question, might just be cause it's half an hour after 4:20. But what happens to all the cattle? Would these species no longer exist? Small numbers kept in wild or zoo's? |
I often wonder about this. Surely they would eventually just die out if we didn’t eat them. No way are we going to feed them the food we need to feed ourselves. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 17:45 - Sep 27 with 752 views | eireblue |
That article says nothing about the comparison between diary milk and almond milk.
So, it is not evidence of anything with respect to the topic. |  | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 17:45 - Sep 27 with 750 views | leitrimblue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 17:29 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
That reminds me… |
No doubting there happy an cute. Well most of um, one or 2 look like they may be contemplating revenge on their release. Especially the one with the close up of his eyes near end. This may explain Ely,s fears |  | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 17:52 - Sep 27 with 736 views | leitrimblue |
| Hope everyone is ready on 17:44 - Sep 27 by chicoazul |
I often wonder about this. Surely they would eventually just die out if we didn’t eat them. No way are we going to feed them the food we need to feed ourselves. |
There hundreds of sheep in the field next to me. I imagine they would just eat grass an breed til there no grass left. Living the sheep dream | | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 18:01 - Sep 27 with 723 views | blueconscience |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:11 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Meat rationing should have started years ago. Current levels of meat consumption are killing the planet. |
How many pieces of meat would someone be allowed over a week under your ideal rationing? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 18:28 - Sep 27 with 692 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 18:01 - Sep 27 by blueconscience |
How many pieces of meat would someone be allowed over a week under your ideal rationing? |
None. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 18:30 - Sep 27 with 691 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 18:28 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
None. |
Would you accept a phasing in to help people adjust to the new diet or make them go cold turkey? |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:02 - Sep 27 with 676 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 18:30 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Would you accept a phasing in to help people adjust to the new diet or make them go cold turkey? |
Yes.
But really, the end goal should be none.
You were one of the few here as a non-vegan to grasp the concept that if I feel an animal doesn’t deserve to die for one’s convenience or taste then it’s going to be a non-starter for many trying to defend that choice. In fact you were like one of three people to publicly state it in the 32 page death thread.
I still stand by that, difference is people actually listen to facts now.
Bar Ely, of course!
Of course, from an eco and general effort perspective less is better than none, but I’m doing fine without it. In fact I’m healthier and fitter than ever. It’s a no brainer if people can let go of farmer/fishing propaganda. Nothing on a supermarket shelf wasn’t made in an industrial death machine, the organic/free range labels are greenwashing. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:05]
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:02 - Sep 27 with 678 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 18:01 - Sep 27 by blueconscience |
How many pieces of meat would someone be allowed over a week under your ideal rationing? |
Well ideally none, but if people really can't cope without it at all then perhaps one portion of red meat a month might be sustainable from an environmental point of view, with perhaps chicken or fish once a week. I'd still view you as morally reprehensible myself as my veganism is primarily ethical, the environmental benefits just add an additional layer of righteousness. |  |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:05 - Sep 27 with 665 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:02 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
Well ideally none, but if people really can't cope without it at all then perhaps one portion of red meat a month might be sustainable from an environmental point of view, with perhaps chicken or fish once a week. I'd still view you as morally reprehensible myself as my veganism is primarily ethical, the environmental benefits just add an additional layer of righteousness. |
What would be more sustainable, eating occassional local game or buying something vegan at the supermarket?
Edit....culled deer and muntjac which trash woodland would perhaps be a particular beneficial environmental choice. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:07]
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:09 - Sep 27 with 655 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:05 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What would be more sustainable, eating occassional local game or buying something vegan at the supermarket?
Edit....culled deer and muntjac which trash woodland would perhaps be a particular beneficial environmental choice. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:07]
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En masse, probably still the supermarket option.
You can’t feed the population with local and ethical meat. Even if at an individual level it is almost certainly better, we’d have to manipulate the game population to do this and back to cruelty we go. And once there capitalism will kick in yet again.
The trick to sustainability IMO is less meat/dairy AND less capitalism. The two often go hand in hand but the latter is the root cause of the former.
Preaching to the choir again but yeah.
Better idea - don’t eat any animals and buy local/grow. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:13]
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:10 - Sep 27 with 653 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:05 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What would be more sustainable, eating occassional local game or buying something vegan at the supermarket?
Edit....culled deer and muntjac which trash woodland would perhaps be a particular beneficial environmental choice. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:07]
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From a purely eco point of view probably the local game but if you've ever seen Bambi I'm not sure how you can sleep at night. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:11 - Sep 27 with 650 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:05 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What would be more sustainable, eating occassional local game or buying something vegan at the supermarket?
Edit....culled deer and muntjac which trash woodland would perhaps be a particular beneficial environmental choice. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:07]
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The idea of nature trashing nature is an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.
Think about it Banks… | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:13 - Sep 27 with 644 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:11 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
The idea of nature trashing nature is an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.
Think about it Banks… |
To be fair he does have a point on this one. We hunted to extinction all of the native predators that kept the deer population in check, without that they multiply and multiply and they all have to eat. It's a man made problem of course but it is a problem. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:17 - Sep 27 with 635 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:13 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
To be fair he does have a point on this one. We hunted to extinction all of the native predators that kept the deer population in check, without that they multiply and multiply and they all have to eat. It's a man made problem of course but it is a problem. |
Yeah true, but could word it better!
Then again I’d take deers running rampant over what we get if we carry on as we are.
I just don’t get how we’re so intent on living out of harmony with nature? Seems the boomer generation got an utter hard on for concreting everything. There’s an overgrown woodlands bit near me between an office and the street and my older neighbour keeps moaning it looks untidy, he’d rather look at the bricks and concrete than the fantastic ivy and wild flowers there. Each time he clears it out he’s got a saw and everything. JUST LEAVE IT. Bugs and that love it. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:24 - Sep 27 with 623 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:02 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Yes.
But really, the end goal should be none.
You were one of the few here as a non-vegan to grasp the concept that if I feel an animal doesn’t deserve to die for one’s convenience or taste then it’s going to be a non-starter for many trying to defend that choice. In fact you were like one of three people to publicly state it in the 32 page death thread.
I still stand by that, difference is people actually listen to facts now.
Bar Ely, of course!
Of course, from an eco and general effort perspective less is better than none, but I’m doing fine without it. In fact I’m healthier and fitter than ever. It’s a no brainer if people can let go of farmer/fishing propaganda. Nothing on a supermarket shelf wasn’t made in an industrial death machine, the organic/free range labels are greenwashing. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:05]
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Mate, the sh1t thrown your way over your stance on meat was ridiculous. I think some of it was posters unable to grasp that yours was a stance born of personal principles.
Environmentally am aware meat eating is a huge contributer to our planet's problems. Am mostly frustrated at the failure of those in power to address the same issue and am sure it is (as you have argued many times) a direct consequence of the influence of meat producers/retailers. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:30 - Sep 27 with 614 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:24 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Mate, the sh1t thrown your way over your stance on meat was ridiculous. I think some of it was posters unable to grasp that yours was a stance born of personal principles.
Environmentally am aware meat eating is a huge contributer to our planet's problems. Am mostly frustrated at the failure of those in power to address the same issue and am sure it is (as you have argued many times) a direct consequence of the influence of meat producers/retailers. |
Self interest and convenience has sent us on a race to the bottom. We’ve spent far too long patting ourselves on the back about the wrong things, like wealth creation, whilst ignoring the longterm cost.
Then again, arguably we were never creating wealth for anyone but a select few and that divide is now out of control.
This is early stage disaster capitalism, we’ve advanced massively in terms of technology but for what? Throw in the climate emergency (which we are LITERALLY in RIGHT F**KING NOW) and somethings got to give. Civil disobedience is only going to get worse in the fight for power/resource, as will the wars and methods used by fascism to redwhiteandblue-wash the narrative with misinformation and culture war conspiracies.
Pick a side and make your peace with prison time if you wanna stand against the system too publicly. It’s gonna get worse before it gets better, hope it’s not too late. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:31 - Sep 27 with 615 views | Bluedicea |
| Hope everyone is ready on 09:13 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
There's some evidence that small scale meat production can be sustainable but we're talking everyone moving to eating meat once a month to get there, possibly less frequently than that. People aren't willing to make that kind of sacrifice by and large. Dairy would also need to be drastically cut back on too. |
You're talking the Animal Husbandry method, where you look after a few animals as pets for several years using things like wool, eggs and goats milk and only killing the animal towards the end of it's life.
One way to get people to stop eating meat, or to consume less. Make them kill and prepare the meat they want to eat.
The main reason we in the west eat more meat is because we are disassociated from the process, we don't see the meat we buy in clean plastic as being a living creature a few days before, slaughtered for our benefit. We can intellectually see it, but not emotionally as we are removed from it. |  |
| What is the use of knowing about everything else, when you do not yet know who you are. |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:32 - Sep 27 with 610 views | jonbull88 |
| Hope everyone is ready on 08:38 - Sep 27 by Herbivore |
If it's produced in a way that is remotely sustainsble it would be both more scarce and much more expensive. People care more about cheap burgers than they do about saving the planet. |
The big thing that will kill this plant is over population. Meat has its issues, but what alternative is sustainable. As a mixed farmer (pigs) I know what we do to produce food in this country and I have seen how food is produced on other farms all over the world. Have you seen the areas in Europe where veg, salads etc are produced in pollytunnels? Spain’s area is 46000 hectares and is visible from space. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t cut down on meat eating, I’m just stating if people want to help the environment they should start by reducing meat consumption coupled with buying products grown or produced on this country. The sooner we get an “air miles” tax on food I’ll be pleased. |  | | |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:33 - Sep 27 with 607 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:31 - Sep 27 by Bluedicea |
You're talking the Animal Husbandry method, where you look after a few animals as pets for several years using things like wool, eggs and goats milk and only killing the animal towards the end of it's life.
One way to get people to stop eating meat, or to consume less. Make them kill and prepare the meat they want to eat.
The main reason we in the west eat more meat is because we are disassociated from the process, we don't see the meat we buy in clean plastic as being a living creature a few days before, slaughtered for our benefit. We can intellectually see it, but not emotionally as we are removed from it. |
I’d say that’s pretty sustainable and as a vegan I couldn’t fault it.
Not for me though, I’m well over meat and dairy. Literally flogging a dead horse for me. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:34 - Sep 27 with 605 views | monytowbray |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:32 - Sep 27 by jonbull88 |
The big thing that will kill this plant is over population. Meat has its issues, but what alternative is sustainable. As a mixed farmer (pigs) I know what we do to produce food in this country and I have seen how food is produced on other farms all over the world. Have you seen the areas in Europe where veg, salads etc are produced in pollytunnels? Spain’s area is 46000 hectares and is visible from space. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t cut down on meat eating, I’m just stating if people want to help the environment they should start by reducing meat consumption coupled with buying products grown or produced on this country. The sooner we get an “air miles” tax on food I’ll be pleased. |
Veganism is sustainable.
Seriously, are we still entertaining this nonsense? | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:39 - Sep 27 with 600 views | bluelagos |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:30 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Self interest and convenience has sent us on a race to the bottom. We’ve spent far too long patting ourselves on the back about the wrong things, like wealth creation, whilst ignoring the longterm cost.
Then again, arguably we were never creating wealth for anyone but a select few and that divide is now out of control.
This is early stage disaster capitalism, we’ve advanced massively in terms of technology but for what? Throw in the climate emergency (which we are LITERALLY in RIGHT F**KING NOW) and somethings got to give. Civil disobedience is only going to get worse in the fight for power/resource, as will the wars and methods used by fascism to redwhiteandblue-wash the narrative with misinformation and culture war conspiracies.
Pick a side and make your peace with prison time if you wanna stand against the system too publicly. It’s gonna get worse before it gets better, hope it’s not too late. |
I know I've mentioned him before, but Paul Dolan writes some good stuff about people chasing success narratives.
So long as we obsess and chase materialistic things, we are fcked, royally fcked.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jan/06/happiness-index-wellbeing-survey-u [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 19:40]
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:41 - Sep 27 with 594 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:34 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Veganism is sustainable.
Seriously, are we still entertaining this nonsense? |
People forget just how much land is given over to producing feed for livestock. It's an insane amount. Ely was complaining about soy earlier, circa 80% of which is grown to feed livestock. Greatly reduce meat farming, ideally do away with it, and we have sustainable alternatives. People just don't want to give up on meat being a staple of their diets. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:43 - Sep 27 with 591 views | Herbivore |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:17 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Yeah true, but could word it better!
Then again I’d take deers running rampant over what we get if we carry on as we are.
I just don’t get how we’re so intent on living out of harmony with nature? Seems the boomer generation got an utter hard on for concreting everything. There’s an overgrown woodlands bit near me between an office and the street and my older neighbour keeps moaning it looks untidy, he’d rather look at the bricks and concrete than the fantastic ivy and wild flowers there. Each time he clears it out he’s got a saw and everything. JUST LEAVE IT. Bugs and that love it. |
I'm well up for full scale re-wilding, including reintroducing wolves. That would reduce the need for culling deer. We've destroyed so many ecosystems, we need to start reintroducing and nurturing them, try to bring the planet back into some semblance of balance. It is only livestock farmers that really object to this because reintroducing wolves would be a threat to their animals. | |
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| Hope everyone is ready on 19:44 - Sep 27 with 591 views | jonbull88 |
| Hope everyone is ready on 19:34 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Veganism is sustainable.
Seriously, are we still entertaining this nonsense? |
It is IF produced locally. That is the point! To produce the amount of plant based food we would need to cover large areas of the uk in similar pollytunnels, would you be happy with that? | | | |
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