| where we are right now.... 08:40 - Nov 1 with 7225 views | blueysbackside |
....I might be wrong but it seems to me that there are fans just waiting for a bad result to pile on the pressure on Cook. And that whatever he does between now and whenever, he just can't win. I read of fans on here who gave him three games at the end of October, then two games at the end of November to save his skin. And prior to last Saturday it was all about the next five games being key etc etc. This short-term approach to trying to finding a winning lottery ticket just ain't gonna work. Other fans keep pointing to Wigan and whoever else as justification for why we should be doing better cos 'they also bought a load of players in the summer'. Yes, it doesn't always work like that at clubs. Were fans still wanting Cook to being in an assistant immediately after the 4-0 win at Pompey? I've said it once and I'll say it again. The season for me started post August when Celina and Morsy were in the team. Judge us - and Cook - after Xmas. We may not go up automatically, or via the play offs. It may well take time. Just cos we bought in a load of players doesn't mean we have a right to be up near the top - nor does it mean another manager will be able to do that with this squad. I see fans talking about 'yeah, but the owners wouldn't have brought in all these players if it wasn't the aim to go straight up this season'. Perhaps, but they won't be going anywhere soon. Be patient. Things are changing for the better. |  | | |  |
| where we are right now.... on 09:17 - Nov 2 with 732 views | Herbivore |
| where we are right now.... on 09:01 - Nov 2 by hype313 |
Don't think there is any dye in the wool Cook inners here, everyone seems to be of the mind that he has a certain timeframe, but are willing to give him the benefit of doubt for these 5 games.
If he doesn't get anywhere near against these top table sides then the argument to keep him will fall on deaf ears.
The posters that have been banned have been mouth frothing, Adrian Durham type outers.
Let's see where we are in a few games time, I've no doubt we will all be of the same opinion either way once we see what unfolds in these games. |
I think the majority are where you suggest, give him this tough run of games in November and then see where we are. However, I've seen a number of posters calling for him to have the whole season as a minimum regardless of results and one other poster in particular saying that Cook has got everything right since he came here. Those are the views I struggle with. I don't get accepting mediocrity (or worse) just because people really want the manager to succeed. We all want him to succeed but there has to be a time frame around that and a point at which we say it's not working and we need to try something else. [Post edited 2 Nov 2021 9:18]
|  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 09:47 - Nov 2 with 694 views | SouperJim |
| where we are right now.... on 09:17 - Nov 2 by Herbivore |
I think the majority are where you suggest, give him this tough run of games in November and then see where we are. However, I've seen a number of posters calling for him to have the whole season as a minimum regardless of results and one other poster in particular saying that Cook has got everything right since he came here. Those are the views I struggle with. I don't get accepting mediocrity (or worse) just because people really want the manager to succeed. We all want him to succeed but there has to be a time frame around that and a point at which we say it's not working and we need to try something else. [Post edited 2 Nov 2021 9:18]
|
That's "modern" football isn't it. Nuno got the boot just six games after picking up manager of the month for September, having won 3 and lost 3 in October. For me, it's totally insane.
Yes we have a very good squad relative to our level, but we also thought that the previous two years. Money alone can't buy you any division, it takes time and hard work to put a team together.
We are a project. I'd hoped we'd be higher up the league than we are by now, but we have shown a remarkable ability to chuck points away due to poor individual decision making and not capitalising on key moments. I've never known a spell like it. However, far too many fans have unrealistic expectations. For any team, those seasons where you're better than everyone else, make very few mistakes and fly up the league are very few and far between. Just because we're Ipswich in the third tier and have chucked some money around, doesn't mean we have a given right to be one of the best teams in the division. You have to earn it. I do think we're a very fine margin away from being a real force however, we create at least 3 or 4 gilt edged goal scoring opportunities in most games and have proven we can completely destroy teams when we're at the races.
Being frustrated with results and being fairly long-suffering as a group of fans does not make it sensible to become a short term club who bins their manager before Christmas. That way madness lies, particularly when we're in the top half of the table a couple of wins off the playoffs. All our p!ssing and whinging on here won't change that.
Thankfully, so long as we remain competitive I'm fairly confident the new owners will give PC a free hit this season and unlike the other post-Mick era managers, his record actually deserves that kind of time. We all want a bit of success like yesterday, god knows we've waited long enough for it, but like it or lump it it's going to take time. Changing the manager is quite clearly no guarantee of success and is more likely simply to reset the clock. |  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 09:55 - Nov 2 with 689 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| where we are right now.... on 05:38 - Nov 2 by bobbyramsey |
Just because 36 managers have been sacked it doesn't make right to sack another.
Of the 36 clubs who sacked their manager how many are in a better position than previously? [Post edited 2 Nov 2021 7:24]
|
Just had a look at this, I make it 34 clubs that have appointed new managers since Cook was appointed here rather than 36
Of those 34:
- 14 have improved their league position since the new appointment. 10 of those have improved considerably - moving up 4 places or more
- 5 are in the same position - although 4 of those were appointments made in the last month (2 yesterday so not played a game). This increases to 13 if including teams within 3 places (so broadly in the same position)
- 5 were Summer appointments for relegated teams so there isn’t a like for like comparison. However 3 of the 5 sit in the top 5 of their new division
- 1 was a Summer appointment for a promoted club (Morecambe), who currently sit outside of the relegation places in League One
- 9 have seen their league position worsen. 5 considerably so (4 places or more)
So to summarise, 14 changes have been very successful (10 that have improved by >4 places plus the 4 sides doing successfully in a new division, compared to 7 which haven’t gone well (5 worse by >5 places plus 2 relegated sides struggling). The rest haven’t had much impact either way, albeit with a lot of those cases being recent changes |  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:01 - Nov 2 with 680 views | Churchman |
| where we are right now.... on 13:16 - Nov 1 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I think there's a fair few who aren't interested in building, they want success immediately.
A new man comes in now and then what? He'll be expected to get promotion this season, not next. There's loads of time and points to play for, plus a transfer window. NO EXCUSES! That's what we'll hear.
This isn't to say Cook definitely IS the right man. But he surely needs a bit of time to prove himself one way or another. Given the buyout, the overhaul, players like Walton, Celina and Morsy only recently becoming available, I don't think he's a fair amount of time yet. |
I gave him until October and he has done just about enough to keep his job for the moment for me. I’ve also favoured in other posts retaining him until the end of the season, not least because who do you replace him with?
This is not about wanting success immediately. This actually is about building. If you have four elements to a project and one element isn’t working, you have a decision to make. You either put more resource in if you think that’s what it needs, or you change something or somebody or you do nothing and hope things improve.
We are at the do nothing stage, but we are no longer in Evans world where mediocrity was a target and failure acceptable. The target this year has to have been play offs, whatever Brett Johnson and co may say to relieve the pressure on Cook. We are way off that and whichever way you look at it, Cook’s efforts have been a failure to date. It has to improve.
I dearly hope the team gets it’s act together soon and starts seriously competing with the better teams and beating them - starting with tonight. |  | | |
| where we are right now.... on 10:10 - Nov 2 with 673 views | Pinewoodblue |
| where we are right now.... on 10:01 - Nov 2 by Churchman |
I gave him until October and he has done just about enough to keep his job for the moment for me. I’ve also favoured in other posts retaining him until the end of the season, not least because who do you replace him with?
This is not about wanting success immediately. This actually is about building. If you have four elements to a project and one element isn’t working, you have a decision to make. You either put more resource in if you think that’s what it needs, or you change something or somebody or you do nothing and hope things improve.
We are at the do nothing stage, but we are no longer in Evans world where mediocrity was a target and failure acceptable. The target this year has to have been play offs, whatever Brett Johnson and co may say to relieve the pressure on Cook. We are way off that and whichever way you look at it, Cook’s efforts have been a failure to date. It has to improve.
I dearly hope the team gets it’s act together soon and starts seriously competing with the better teams and beating them - starting with tonight. |
I won’t be happy until we reach the point where we have more points this season than we had at the same stage last season.
Lambert accumulated more points last season than Cook has this. Lambert did it with a squad that Cook was unhappy with. |  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:13 - Nov 2 with 662 views | SouperJim |
| where we are right now.... on 10:01 - Nov 2 by Churchman |
I gave him until October and he has done just about enough to keep his job for the moment for me. I’ve also favoured in other posts retaining him until the end of the season, not least because who do you replace him with?
This is not about wanting success immediately. This actually is about building. If you have four elements to a project and one element isn’t working, you have a decision to make. You either put more resource in if you think that’s what it needs, or you change something or somebody or you do nothing and hope things improve.
We are at the do nothing stage, but we are no longer in Evans world where mediocrity was a target and failure acceptable. The target this year has to have been play offs, whatever Brett Johnson and co may say to relieve the pressure on Cook. We are way off that and whichever way you look at it, Cook’s efforts have been a failure to date. It has to improve.
I dearly hope the team gets it’s act together soon and starts seriously competing with the better teams and beating them - starting with tonight. |
You say it's about building, yet it sounds rather like you're not prepared to wait for the thing to be built.
You don't think we competed with Plymouth? I thought we were the better side and regardless of Penney's awful defending for their first goal, created enough chances to win two games. And that's away to the side who are top.
It's a cruel twist of fate, but having been one of the most patient fanbases in existence over the last 15 years or so, what the club really need from us right now is... patience. | |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:17 - Nov 2 with 659 views | 66notout |
| where we are right now.... on 08:53 - Nov 1 by hype313 |
This is my first season with my Son and his has given me a little bit more perspective, maybe I'm viewing from more of an emotional tag due to this as opposed to dissecting every result and Cooks performance or non performance.
But having spent the past 10 odd years being in a flux about the state of everything associated with ITFC it's quite refreshing not having my blood pressure boil week in week out.
Rome wasn't built in a day. |
What do you consider to have been odd in the past 10 years? | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 10:24 - Nov 2 with 650 views | SouperJim |
| where we are right now.... on 10:10 - Nov 2 by Pinewoodblue |
I won’t be happy until we reach the point where we have more points this season than we had at the same stage last season.
Lambert accumulated more points last season than Cook has this. Lambert did it with a squad that Cook was unhappy with. |
Comparing apples to oranges. Lambert had already had a year with that squad. Paul Cook has had 3 months with his. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| where we are right now.... on 10:34 - Nov 2 with 640 views | XYZ |
| where we are right now.... on 10:01 - Nov 2 by Churchman |
I gave him until October and he has done just about enough to keep his job for the moment for me. I’ve also favoured in other posts retaining him until the end of the season, not least because who do you replace him with?
This is not about wanting success immediately. This actually is about building. If you have four elements to a project and one element isn’t working, you have a decision to make. You either put more resource in if you think that’s what it needs, or you change something or somebody or you do nothing and hope things improve.
We are at the do nothing stage, but we are no longer in Evans world where mediocrity was a target and failure acceptable. The target this year has to have been play offs, whatever Brett Johnson and co may say to relieve the pressure on Cook. We are way off that and whichever way you look at it, Cook’s efforts have been a failure to date. It has to improve.
I dearly hope the team gets it’s act together soon and starts seriously competing with the better teams and beating them - starting with tonight. |
The signing of Celina on a (presumed) costly one-year loan doesn't correlate with the owners accepting anything less than the play-offs.
No guarantee he'll be here next season promotion or not.
The Celina signing is a punt on getting up this year. | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 10:43 - Nov 2 with 628 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| where we are right now.... on 08:55 - Nov 2 by itfcjoe |
And then they had one at 0-0, plus again at 1-1, then we had 3 at 1-2
Goals change games |
I know. Just pointing out that not all our misses... and in fact the most nailed on with only a defender to beat on the line... was not when they were ahead as you said. And they only had their at 0-0 because we'd missed ours. It was straight up the other end, rather than a restart with everyone back in place.
It's a rather pointless argument anyway because we don't know what they'd have done if we'd scored more of our chances. They may well have collapsed. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:47 - Nov 2 with 620 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| where we are right now.... on 10:10 - Nov 2 by Pinewoodblue |
I won’t be happy until we reach the point where we have more points this season than we had at the same stage last season.
Lambert accumulated more points last season than Cook has this. Lambert did it with a squad that Cook was unhappy with. |
Lambert had a couple of years with those players though. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:49 - Nov 2 with 609 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| where we are right now.... on 10:34 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
The signing of Celina on a (presumed) costly one-year loan doesn't correlate with the owners accepting anything less than the play-offs.
No guarantee he'll be here next season promotion or not.
The Celina signing is a punt on getting up this year. |
Having a longer term plan doesn't mean we wouldn't like to go up sooner and won't be trying our damnedest to do that. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:55 - Nov 2 with 587 views | itfcjoe |
| where we are right now.... on 10:43 - Nov 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I know. Just pointing out that not all our misses... and in fact the most nailed on with only a defender to beat on the line... was not when they were ahead as you said. And they only had their at 0-0 because we'd missed ours. It was straight up the other end, rather than a restart with everyone back in place.
It's a rather pointless argument anyway because we don't know what they'd have done if we'd scored more of our chances. They may well have collapsed. |
It's merely as pointless as suggesting we would have won or drawn had we taken our chances with no look at the game state |  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 10:56 - Nov 2 with 581 views | XYZ |
| where we are right now.... on 10:49 - Nov 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Having a longer term plan doesn't mean we wouldn't like to go up sooner and won't be trying our damnedest to do that. |
By taking a very expensive one-year-only (League One) punt?
If/when the play-offs look like becoming out of reach Cook will be in trouble. Player values will be falling with many on 3 year deals with Championship wages and therefore difficult to get rid of the ones who you want to.
The pension fund will be looking at the Balance Sheet, not TWTD. | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 11:06 - Nov 2 with 564 views | Churchman |
| where we are right now.... on 10:13 - Nov 2 by SouperJim |
You say it's about building, yet it sounds rather like you're not prepared to wait for the thing to be built.
You don't think we competed with Plymouth? I thought we were the better side and regardless of Penney's awful defending for their first goal, created enough chances to win two games. And that's away to the side who are top.
It's a cruel twist of fate, but having been one of the most patient fanbases in existence over the last 15 years or so, what the club really need from us right now is... patience. |
After a third of the season in the lower half of the table we are 11th, thirteen points behind the leaders, who we’ve just lost to. We deserve to be where we are and nobody should be satisfied with it.
I have made it clear where I stand in relation to the rebuild of the club. I’m optimistic on that front – much more than I ever was when saviour Marcus rolled in. It will take a number of years but I think owners know what they are doing and we will be fine.
I have also been clear on giving Cook until the season’s end. I wish we could return to the good ole days where a manager got three years to build a team, but it isn’t like that any more. Managers have to deliver results and quickly and all the excuses about individual errors, gelling, injuries etc won’t change that.
To date we have not been good enough and my view is purely that if an element isn’t right, at some stage you may have to do something about it. I hope for all our sakes that isn’t necessary. [Post edited 2 Nov 2021 11:18]
| | | |
| where we are right now.... on 11:09 - Nov 2 with 554 views | Herbivore |
| where we are right now.... on 09:47 - Nov 2 by SouperJim |
That's "modern" football isn't it. Nuno got the boot just six games after picking up manager of the month for September, having won 3 and lost 3 in October. For me, it's totally insane.
Yes we have a very good squad relative to our level, but we also thought that the previous two years. Money alone can't buy you any division, it takes time and hard work to put a team together.
We are a project. I'd hoped we'd be higher up the league than we are by now, but we have shown a remarkable ability to chuck points away due to poor individual decision making and not capitalising on key moments. I've never known a spell like it. However, far too many fans have unrealistic expectations. For any team, those seasons where you're better than everyone else, make very few mistakes and fly up the league are very few and far between. Just because we're Ipswich in the third tier and have chucked some money around, doesn't mean we have a given right to be one of the best teams in the division. You have to earn it. I do think we're a very fine margin away from being a real force however, we create at least 3 or 4 gilt edged goal scoring opportunities in most games and have proven we can completely destroy teams when we're at the races.
Being frustrated with results and being fairly long-suffering as a group of fans does not make it sensible to become a short term club who bins their manager before Christmas. That way madness lies, particularly when we're in the top half of the table a couple of wins off the playoffs. All our p!ssing and whinging on here won't change that.
Thankfully, so long as we remain competitive I'm fairly confident the new owners will give PC a free hit this season and unlike the other post-Mick era managers, his record actually deserves that kind of time. We all want a bit of success like yesterday, god knows we've waited long enough for it, but like it or lump it it's going to take time. Changing the manager is quite clearly no guarantee of success and is more likely simply to reset the clock. |
I don't really get the free hit mentality to be honest. We did that with Lambert and we're now 3 seasons deep in League 1 with a fourth looming if we fall away too much further. We're more than a couple of wins off the play offs too, the gap is 7 points and when you've got several sides above you who are unlikely to all lose back to back games it takes a run of games to make up that gap even if we string victories together back to back.
Nobody is saying we have any divine right to anything and I find that language unhelpful to be honest. What we should be able to manage is to be genuinely competetive this season give the resources we have and the sqaud we've assembled. Most sides at this level are dealing with high squad churn, we aren't unique in that respect. At the moment we're a way short of where pretty much everyone would have expected us to be after a relatively benign opening 15 fixtures. That needs to change and because of how poor our start was the window for it to change isn't that large before we end up writing off yet another season. | |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 12:14 - Nov 2 with 511 views | DavoIPB |
| where we are right now.... on 10:01 - Nov 2 by Churchman |
I gave him until October and he has done just about enough to keep his job for the moment for me. I’ve also favoured in other posts retaining him until the end of the season, not least because who do you replace him with?
This is not about wanting success immediately. This actually is about building. If you have four elements to a project and one element isn’t working, you have a decision to make. You either put more resource in if you think that’s what it needs, or you change something or somebody or you do nothing and hope things improve.
We are at the do nothing stage, but we are no longer in Evans world where mediocrity was a target and failure acceptable. The target this year has to have been play offs, whatever Brett Johnson and co may say to relieve the pressure on Cook. We are way off that and whichever way you look at it, Cook’s efforts have been a failure to date. It has to improve.
I dearly hope the team gets it’s act together soon and starts seriously competing with the better teams and beating them - starting with tonight. |
We are not way off play offs. We could have beaten the top team in the league on Saturday. I think we were unlucky not to. We are what 7 points away from play offs a the beginning of November. With the desire in this team we will be there at the end of the season. | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 13:18 - Nov 2 with 464 views | StokieBlue |
| where we are right now.... on 10:55 - Nov 2 by itfcjoe |
It's merely as pointless as suggesting we would have won or drawn had we taken our chances with no look at the game state |
Wasn't the game state of the last 15 minutes that we had 3 clear cut chances and they did basically nothing?
In that context it's entirely relevant to say we could have won or drawn if we had taken those chances because the previous 75 minutes are an irrelevance by that stage as is any xG determined before that point because it's a fixed point in time.
We didn't take them and we lost but to say it's pointless isn't correct in my opinion.
SB |  |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 14:47 - Nov 2 with 403 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| where we are right now.... on 10:55 - Nov 2 by itfcjoe |
It's merely as pointless as suggesting we would have won or drawn had we taken our chances with no look at the game state |
Who's doing that? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 14:51 - Nov 2 with 390 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| where we are right now.... on 10:56 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
By taking a very expensive one-year-only (League One) punt?
If/when the play-offs look like becoming out of reach Cook will be in trouble. Player values will be falling with many on 3 year deals with Championship wages and therefore difficult to get rid of the ones who you want to.
The pension fund will be looking at the Balance Sheet, not TWTD. |
Yes. Take a punt to get up earlier. Again, this doesn't negate the long-term plan.
The pension fund know this is a long term investment. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 14:55 - Nov 2 with 384 views | XYZ |
| where we are right now.... on 14:51 - Nov 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Yes. Take a punt to get up earlier. Again, this doesn't negate the long-term plan.
The pension fund know this is a long term investment. |
I hope we never find out who's right or wrong here. I think it's you. You think it's me. Fairy nuff. | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 15:03 - Nov 2 with 371 views | itfcjoe |
| where we are right now.... on 13:18 - Nov 2 by StokieBlue |
Wasn't the game state of the last 15 minutes that we had 3 clear cut chances and they did basically nothing?
In that context it's entirely relevant to say we could have won or drawn if we had taken those chances because the previous 75 minutes are an irrelevance by that stage as is any xG determined before that point because it's a fixed point in time.
We didn't take them and we lost but to say it's pointless isn't correct in my opinion.
SB |
If we score the first then what happens? The game changes | |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 15:04 - Nov 2 with 367 views | Herbivore |
| where we are right now.... on 14:55 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
I hope we never find out who's right or wrong here. I think it's you. You think it's me. Fairy nuff. |
I think people are getting in a muddle. The long term plan isn't ot get out of League 1, it's to get to the Prem. Getting out of League 1 is very much a short term goal. | |
| |
| where we are right now.... on 15:08 - Nov 2 with 353 views | XYZ |
| where we are right now.... on 15:04 - Nov 2 by Herbivore |
I think people are getting in a muddle. The long term plan isn't ot get out of League 1, it's to get to the Prem. Getting out of League 1 is very much a short term goal. |
My view too. There's a long-term project, but it doesn't necessarily include Cook if it looks like he won't take us up this year.
Over £1m spent on Celina on deadline day for a one-year loan doesn't make sense otherwise. | | | |
| where we are right now.... on 15:15 - Nov 2 with 338 views | StokieBlue |
| where we are right now.... on 15:03 - Nov 2 by itfcjoe |
If we score the first then what happens? The game changes |
I don't really think that covers what I said.
If you take that to it's logical conclusion then analysis of any game is irrelevant because the game state can never be known because it would change with any event that could have happened.
We are possibly getting side-tracked though.
SB [Post edited 2 Nov 2021 15:17]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
