| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... 11:00 - Nov 24 with 13589 views | itfcjoe |
.....the 'wasters' in the squad under a manager who had chucked the towel in had 50 points from 30 games.
In order for us to get to that same position, over the next 11 games we need the following record
P11 W8 D2 L1 Pts 26 |  |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:26 - Nov 25 with 819 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:13 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So who would you have kept from last year's decent squad? |
This is a bit of a tired argument. On paper, this season’s squad is far stronger than last season’s but we were two points off the play offs when he came in. Everyone happily threw those players under a bus because Cook told us to but actually, taking a step back, the issues seem to be clearer and less on the playing squad. It’s very likely that Cook asked him to play one way - the only way he wants to coach. This means attacking full backs (our options at the time being Chambers and Ward/Kenlock), a ball winning midifeld where we were actually lightweight for the most part) and creativity out wide (er… Bennetts?). He basically didn’t play to what strengths we did have and the season spiralled badly.
My key concern with Cook is his failure to adapt to what he has and, game by game, it’s being thrown in sharper relief. |  |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:26 - Nov 25 with 814 views | Funge |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 10:20 - Nov 25 by WilbrahamBlue |
Just all off the anti-Cook propaganda that's posted to every forum post, that's probably it. |
Here's the thing - I don't give a fck about who our manager is *, as long as they get this club winning and succeeding.
Cook is, on the face of it, the latest in a long line of managers who talk a great game and deliver very little.
If he can't do it (and the signs very much point to this), then get rid of him, and get someone else in, capable of motivating this very talented squad to play.
* I'm not having Allardyce.
Expect more from your football club; it's really that simple. |  | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:28 - Nov 25 with 801 views | itfcjoe |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:13 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So who would you have kept from last year's decent squad? |
I haven't said I'd keep any or none, I'm just making the point that last ears squad was decent enough, and this years squad is better (which i think everyone agrees on) and he hasn't got a tune out of either | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:28 - Nov 25 with 800 views | leitrimblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:26 - Nov 25 by pointofblue |
This is a bit of a tired argument. On paper, this season’s squad is far stronger than last season’s but we were two points off the play offs when he came in. Everyone happily threw those players under a bus because Cook told us to but actually, taking a step back, the issues seem to be clearer and less on the playing squad. It’s very likely that Cook asked him to play one way - the only way he wants to coach. This means attacking full backs (our options at the time being Chambers and Ward/Kenlock), a ball winning midifeld where we were actually lightweight for the most part) and creativity out wide (er… Bennetts?). He basically didn’t play to what strengths we did have and the season spiralled badly.
My key concern with Cook is his failure to adapt to what he has and, game by game, it’s being thrown in sharper relief. |
So who are you saying he should have kept? |  | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:31 - Nov 25 with 778 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:28 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So who are you saying he should have kept? |
Perhaps Wilson or Chambers as I think they would have worked well alongside Edmundson. Downes is an obvious one but he wanted to go.
However, that’s hardly the point. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:34 - Nov 25 with 770 views | leitrimblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:28 - Nov 25 by itfcjoe |
I haven't said I'd keep any or none, I'm just making the point that last ears squad was decent enough, and this years squad is better (which i think everyone agrees on) and he hasn't got a tune out of either |
So you agree he was right to get rid of last year's squad and start the reset? But your not prepared to give the new team an players more then a month or 2 to see if it works? You honestly think after years of neglect cook should have a brand new squad on top of the league after a month or 2 or be sacked? | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:35 - Nov 25 with 765 views | Herbivore |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:31 - Nov 25 by pointofblue |
Perhaps Wilson or Chambers as I think they would have worked well alongside Edmundson. Downes is an obvious one but he wanted to go.
However, that’s hardly the point. |
Apparently players wanting to go isn't an issue if they are under contract. That's the line now when people point out that some of our players may well want to move on if we don't go up this year. |  |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:37 - Nov 25 with 750 views | Parky |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:26 - Nov 25 by WilbrahamBlue |
" Who else should we be "anti" then?"...
that.
in a nutshell. |
Sadly, this sums up a lot of Ipswich fans. | | | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:38 - Nov 25 with 743 views | WilbrahamBlue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:23 - Nov 25 by Herbivore |
You're clearly a bit of a low watt bulb so I'll try to make this as simple as possible. We are 13th in the league, there is no bias in presenting that. Several of our divisional rivals have games in hand, you can fact check this yourself if you like to ensure it's true. We have the largest or second largest playing budget in the league, now we won't know this for certain until our accounts are released but looking at what we've spent on fees - north of £3m in total - and the calibre of players we've signed, beating Championship clubs to sign some of them, I am confident that this is also an accurate claim. So where is the bias of which you speak? Reply with something a bit more fact based and a lot less glib next time, otherwise don't bother. [Post edited 25 Nov 2021 11:24]
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eat.
sleep.
anti-Cook Propaganda.
repeat.
.....weeks and months go by, and the club still doesn't bloody listen. | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:38 - Nov 25 with 744 views | itfcjoe |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:34 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So you agree he was right to get rid of last year's squad and start the reset? But your not prepared to give the new team an players more then a month or 2 to see if it works? You honestly think after years of neglect cook should have a brand new squad on top of the league after a month or 2 or be sacked? |
I don't necessarily think he was right to totally rip it up - but he did so knowing the pressure was still going to be on him to get us up straight away and felt it was right way to go.
Just because the squad is better, doesn't mean it was right - a mix of last years with some recruitment may have been more settled and good enough.
And this 'years of neglect' thing is totally irrelevant, it's a new manager and a new squad. The years of neglect were in place when McCarthy could turn things round quickly, teams have gone into administration and proper strife and can bounce back quicker than we are managing.
Sometimes it just has to be accepted a manager is a bad fit, and it looks like Cook is one here - which is a massive shame as I thought he'd be an excellent appointment, as did everyone else | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:42 - Nov 25 with 718 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:34 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So you agree he was right to get rid of last year's squad and start the reset? But your not prepared to give the new team an players more then a month or 2 to see if it works? You honestly think after years of neglect cook should have a brand new squad on top of the league after a month or 2 or be sacked? |
A month of two? We’re in November, not September. He made a mess of last season and he’s making a mess of this season. We held on to Mick too long, we held on to Hurst for too long (which is a minor miracle considering the lack of time he had here) and we held on to Lambert too long. We’re a club which gives too much time whilst treading water in murky depths with squads which do not equal the sum of their parts. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:44 - Nov 25 with 710 views | WilbrahamBlue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:42 - Nov 25 by pointofblue |
A month of two? We’re in November, not September. He made a mess of last season and he’s making a mess of this season. We held on to Mick too long, we held on to Hurst for too long (which is a minor miracle considering the lack of time he had here) and we held on to Lambert too long. We’re a club which gives too much time whilst treading water in murky depths with squads which do not equal the sum of their parts. |
We gave a manager (Hurst) 15 games and you think this was too long?
We could of got Lambert in to fail a few games earlier? | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:46 - Nov 25 with 706 views | Herbivore |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:34 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So you agree he was right to get rid of last year's squad and start the reset? But your not prepared to give the new team an players more then a month or 2 to see if it works? You honestly think after years of neglect cook should have a brand new squad on top of the league after a month or 2 or be sacked? |
It's not a month or two. We're nearly 4 months into the season. And nobody is saying we have to be top at this stage of the season but to be sat 13th on run of poor form, with automatic promotion already gone and the play offs increasingly drifting out of reach is not really acceptable, is it? I'm sure Paul Cook doesn't think it's acceptable either, so I don't really understand the need to defend his poor performance. He'll be well aware it's far from good enough the only question is whether he can turn it around in an acceptable timescale. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:47 - Nov 25 with 698 views | DavoIPB |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:34 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
So you agree he was right to get rid of last year's squad and start the reset? But your not prepared to give the new team an players more then a month or 2 to see if it works? You honestly think after years of neglect cook should have a brand new squad on top of the league after a month or 2 or be sacked? |
Yep, this is the point everyone seems to be missing. If we are bottom half of the table at the end of this year then yes sacked but think we will be near the top 6 if not in the top 6. | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:47 - Nov 25 with 692 views | Herbivore |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:38 - Nov 25 by WilbrahamBlue |
eat.
sleep.
anti-Cook Propaganda.
repeat.
.....weeks and months go by, and the club still doesn't bloody listen. |
Okay, I can see now you're a troll with no interest in discussion or debate. What a waste of your time and mine. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:48 - Nov 25 with 691 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:44 - Nov 25 by WilbrahamBlue |
We gave a manager (Hurst) 15 games and you think this was too long?
We could of got Lambert in to fail a few games earlier? |
Lambert should have gone on New Year’s Day 2020 at the latest - instead we gave him a five year contract.
Hurst should have been sacked post Swansea. Ok, we won, but it was by sheer luck; they should have won that at a canter. If not then, then the QPR shambles which followed it should have been the line in the sand. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:50 - Nov 25 with 686 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:18 - Nov 25 by itfcjoe |
Well they were 7th in this league with a manager who barely spoke to them so must have had a bit of quality - this squad this season is far better, but somehow is being contrived to do far worse |
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when you, one of the more sensible posters on here, would twist the facts so wildly.
So we were 7th when Lambert left? Despite the fact that several (including yourself if I remember rightly) were saying Gill was picking the team. And if Lambert "barely spoke to them" as you've just said, in what way was he managing them?
And at what point was it decided that 7th in League 1 (the highest point we achieved after a meaningful amount of games) constitutes "decent" anyway?!
You've either got a terrible memory or you're deliberately re-writing the feeling about Lambert because you hate Cook so much.
I'm not even defending Cook as we are a long way off where we should be now, but that "decent squad" you talk about finished 10th in League 1 under Lambert the year before. And the year before that they were 24th in the Championship. Not sure where you're getting this "decent" tag from. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:50 - Nov 25 with 686 views | leitrimblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:38 - Nov 25 by itfcjoe |
I don't necessarily think he was right to totally rip it up - but he did so knowing the pressure was still going to be on him to get us up straight away and felt it was right way to go.
Just because the squad is better, doesn't mean it was right - a mix of last years with some recruitment may have been more settled and good enough.
And this 'years of neglect' thing is totally irrelevant, it's a new manager and a new squad. The years of neglect were in place when McCarthy could turn things round quickly, teams have gone into administration and proper strife and can bounce back quicker than we are managing.
Sometimes it just has to be accepted a manager is a bad fit, and it looks like Cook is one here - which is a massive shame as I thought he'd be an excellent appointment, as did everyone else |
You say you don't necessarily think he was right to totally rip it up while also suggesting that the only players he should have kept was one of either Chambers or Wilson. ( I actually agree he should have kept one of um for experience). I believe there would have been 4 senior players he could have seen taking the club forward. 2 of those we're coming to the end of there careers at this level one didn't want to be here and the other was a right back with recurring injury issues. I think the rebuild was essential and needed to be done. If we all agree on that, then the next question is how long we are gonna give the new manager to build a brand new team? I don't think 2-3 months is long enough | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:52 - Nov 25 with 681 views | leitrimblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:42 - Nov 25 by pointofblue |
A month of two? We’re in November, not September. He made a mess of last season and he’s making a mess of this season. We held on to Mick too long, we held on to Hurst for too long (which is a minor miracle considering the lack of time he had here) and we held on to Lambert too long. We’re a club which gives too much time whilst treading water in murky depths with squads which do not equal the sum of their parts. |
Feck! Let's start again. Who should he have kept from last seasons squad! | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:57 - Nov 25 with 655 views | leitrimblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:46 - Nov 25 by Herbivore |
It's not a month or two. We're nearly 4 months into the season. And nobody is saying we have to be top at this stage of the season but to be sat 13th on run of poor form, with automatic promotion already gone and the play offs increasingly drifting out of reach is not really acceptable, is it? I'm sure Paul Cook doesn't think it's acceptable either, so I don't really understand the need to defend his poor performance. He'll be well aware it's far from good enough the only question is whether he can turn it around in an acceptable timescale. |
I'm not defending his poor performance as such. I'm saying if we think he was right to rip up an rebuild the team other the summer then we should see it might take a while for that new team to reach it's peak. So saying they compare badly with last seasons side ignored the fact that last year's squad had been together for more then 3 months. And many people were asking for him to be sacked after 2-3 months | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:59 - Nov 25 with 643 views | itfcjoe |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:50 - Nov 25 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Wow, I never thought I'd see the day when you, one of the more sensible posters on here, would twist the facts so wildly.
So we were 7th when Lambert left? Despite the fact that several (including yourself if I remember rightly) were saying Gill was picking the team. And if Lambert "barely spoke to them" as you've just said, in what way was he managing them?
And at what point was it decided that 7th in League 1 (the highest point we achieved after a meaningful amount of games) constitutes "decent" anyway?!
You've either got a terrible memory or you're deliberately re-writing the feeling about Lambert because you hate Cook so much.
I'm not even defending Cook as we are a long way off where we should be now, but that "decent squad" you talk about finished 10th in League 1 under Lambert the year before. And the year before that they were 24th in the Championship. Not sure where you're getting this "decent" tag from. |
I don't really understand what you are saying here - decent does not mean brilliant. But to be 7th after 30 games you clearly have a bit about you when the management situation was a bit of a shambles.
Everyone expected it to kick on when Cook came in, it didn't. COok gets another go at it and still can't make it work - in a few more weeks if he carries on as is he will have wasted 2 opportunities at promotion | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 12:01 - Nov 25 with 634 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:52 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
Feck! Let's start again. Who should he have kept from last seasons squad! |
Answered that question already. | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 12:01 - Nov 25 with 634 views | JDB23 |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:47 - Nov 25 by DavoIPB |
Yep, this is the point everyone seems to be missing. If we are bottom half of the table at the end of this year then yes sacked but think we will be near the top 6 if not in the top 6. |
So you think we should wait until things are far too gone to make a change, instead of being proactive and identifying it’s not working and making a change before it’s too late?
Blimey, no wonder you’re defending Cook so much as that is his exact philosophy for his in game management. | | | |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 12:02 - Nov 25 with 627 views | itfcjoe |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:50 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
You say you don't necessarily think he was right to totally rip it up while also suggesting that the only players he should have kept was one of either Chambers or Wilson. ( I actually agree he should have kept one of um for experience). I believe there would have been 4 senior players he could have seen taking the club forward. 2 of those we're coming to the end of there careers at this level one didn't want to be here and the other was a right back with recurring injury issues. I think the rebuild was essential and needed to be done. If we all agree on that, then the next question is how long we are gonna give the new manager to build a brand new team? I don't think 2-3 months is long enough |
I think with the way the squad has been built, with the finances of it and the sheer quality from loan market then competing for automatic was the minimum expectation.
We aren't even competing for the play offs, and it's going to take something like 2 points per game from here on in just to do that - it's miles off what was expected and what was recruited for - including the late deadline additions which would have been seriously expensive (Morsy, Walton and Celina) | |
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| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 12:04 - Nov 25 with 613 views | pointofblue |
| When Paul Cook was appointed last year.... on 11:50 - Nov 25 by leitrimblue |
You say you don't necessarily think he was right to totally rip it up while also suggesting that the only players he should have kept was one of either Chambers or Wilson. ( I actually agree he should have kept one of um for experience). I believe there would have been 4 senior players he could have seen taking the club forward. 2 of those we're coming to the end of there careers at this level one didn't want to be here and the other was a right back with recurring injury issues. I think the rebuild was essential and needed to be done. If we all agree on that, then the next question is how long we are gonna give the new manager to build a brand new team? I don't think 2-3 months is long enough |
The big issue is we seem to be going backwards. The goals have dried up, the performances are getting worse - Oxford at home has somehow been built up as the Alamo with us having chance after chance; it was anything but.
If we could see signs of improvement, if we could see things were moving forward, even incrementally, then the argument to give him more time would be more grounded for me. Time is proving that we’re moving in the right direction. However, it feels like that is not the case. | |
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