| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? 17:10 - Dec 2 with 4001 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
as Town fans? 6 months is it? 9?
Asking for a friend. |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:32 - Dec 2 with 1230 views | jeera |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:26 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
In any case, giving the football club you love money they would not otherwise have got, to watch a match you could not otherwise have seen, is pretty much the definition of a victimless crime. |
Exactly. The funding is entirely legal and beneficial to the club.
The minor technicalities that keep being brought up in this way could eventually mean that access will get shut down.
For many people, including those with disabilities, that would rob them of an opportunity of a little enjoyment in their week following their team.
Why anyone would want to push this is beyond me and seems unnecessarily nasty. |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:32 - Dec 2 with 1230 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:23 - Dec 2 by jeera |
Petty angle to take.
He was talking about the game, whether you agree with the views on the game or not is quite different to the agenda you're pushing now.
If someone says they are watching legally then that's that. Where someone lives is their business. |
I want to know how you can watch i follow on a Saturday. He said he watched the Sunderland game so if there's a way I would like to know so please share. Is that better [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 20:41]
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:45 - Dec 2 with 1210 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 17:41 - Dec 2 by chrismakin |
Have you heard of I follow chelts? Have a look it's fab.
Tbh the Sunderland game was huff puff and something we saw alot of last season. Create a bit. Didn't score. Then struggled to do anything 2nd half and lost the game.
Last season we best teams like promotion winning Blackpool. But I've forgot everything about last season was rubbish apparently and this season is miles better despite not being any different other than spending more on players.
But overall its not good enough. There's no sign that it's going in a upward trend at all. And that's the problem.
Having a good 45 minute here and there won't get us anywhere.
As you know I was a big PC fan. And believed he needed a bit of time. He's had that but it's just not working. Why. That's for the owners to work out. But the results and performances are showing its not going well. [Post edited 2 Dec 2021 17:42]
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If that's your take on Sunderland then I can only assume you didn't watch it. We didn't remotely huff and puff or struggle to do anything 2nd half. Utter nonsense.
Then you say "we best teams like promotion winning Blackpool"! Not teams LIKE promotion winning Blackpool. JUST Blackpool. Before they'd gelled.
You'll be a big PC fan and saying we should be patient in a few weeks. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:51 - Dec 2 with 1181 views | Coastalblue |
Maybe ask Paul Hurst? |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:55 - Dec 2 with 1173 views | chrismakin |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:45 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
If that's your take on Sunderland then I can only assume you didn't watch it. We didn't remotely huff and puff or struggle to do anything 2nd half. Utter nonsense.
Then you say "we best teams like promotion winning Blackpool"! Not teams LIKE promotion winning Blackpool. JUST Blackpool. Before they'd gelled.
You'll be a big PC fan and saying we should be patient in a few weeks. |
We all have various opinions about games Flash.
First half indeed town onto and we should have scored. 2nd half was alot of ball Time but we failed to hurt them. Very similar to alot of our games over the years
If PC begins turn it around properly and long term and not a couple games before going backwards, of course I'd be much happier with him. I'm not going to be happy with him for no reason especially when he's getting a lot of things in almost all games we have been playing recently. |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:56 - Dec 2 with 1178 views | Funge |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:45 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
If that's your take on Sunderland then I can only assume you didn't watch it. We didn't remotely huff and puff or struggle to do anything 2nd half. Utter nonsense.
Then you say "we best teams like promotion winning Blackpool"! Not teams LIKE promotion winning Blackpool. JUST Blackpool. Before they'd gelled.
You'll be a big PC fan and saying we should be patient in a few weeks. |
Sunderland - we did fck all 2nd half! Loads of possession, created nothing.
I was there, it was awful. |  | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:36 - Dec 2 with 1124 views | Keaneish |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:17 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
History hasn't taught us anything of the sort.
No appointment in Ipswich Town's history supports the assertion that good managerial stints usually begin with 9 months of sustained poor form. Most of them demonstrate quite the opposite, that sustained poor performance is usually a prelude simply to more poor performance, until finally the end comes.
You might believe it will be different this time, you might have observed things about us that lead you to believe we'll improve soon. You might even be right! But, history definitively isn't on your side here. History says that past performance is the best guide to future performance, that we won't improve dramatically from here onwards and that Cook won't turn it round, like Lambert, Jewell, Keane and Hurst didn't. |
I was speaking holistically about successful football clubs in general but Robson’s first 4-years were mediocre without achieving anything of note. It took Burley 4-years to get us promoted and Lyall two. Cook’s had 8-months and some are already baying for blood.
Perspective and patience required. |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:56 - Dec 2 with 1111 views | jayessess |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:36 - Dec 2 by Keaneish |
I was speaking holistically about successful football clubs in general but Robson’s first 4-years were mediocre without achieving anything of note. It took Burley 4-years to get us promoted and Lyall two. Cook’s had 8-months and some are already baying for blood.
Perspective and patience required. |
Msot managerial stints that start badly end in failure, that's true for football in general and true for us.
Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all. |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:02 - Dec 2 with 1096 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 18:36 - Dec 2 by chrismakin |
Absolutely I was concerned before it all happened. There are still some aspects I'm unsure of long term. But absolutely at the time I didn't like the sound of a pension pot effectively owning town when at least with Evans the debt was to him and the club whilst low. It was still being kept afloat. We will see of course how things go here over over next few years.
Am I sorry for changing opinions. Absolutely not. If you personally are incapable of changing feelings on things that's a horrible way to live. If you didn't like a manager but he was successful would you continue to dislike him? If the new owners did end up selling off the club would you still like them if we ended up being a non league side.
Life's full of opportunities to change opinions. Be open. Express yours and be proud of them. |
That's all well and good but if you continuously change your opinion and don't stick with anything you'll never achieve anything. And you'll look like a twonk. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:06 - Dec 2 with 1078 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:56 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
Msot managerial stints that start badly end in failure, that's true for football in general and true for us.
Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all. |
89/90 season under John Duncan we finished 9th.
90/91 season under John Lyall we finished 14th. | | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:06 - Dec 2 with 1078 views | jeera |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:56 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
Msot managerial stints that start badly end in failure, that's true for football in general and true for us.
Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all. |
Most of the examples being touted around are either from years ago when things were significantly different to now, or referring to the leagues above. Or both.
Mostly different circumstances to those we find ourselves under.
Anyone who is convinced everything is fine wouldn't be clutching at straws like this.
No one is happy with how things are, just some don't want to say it for some reason.
It's ok to still want to be supportive but also be concerned that things aren't going the way we'd hoped. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:08 - Dec 2 with 1074 views | itfcjoe |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:27 - Dec 2 by pennblue |
I think people are too tainted from what has happened in previous years. There is an assumption that it will turn out the same. They may be right of course, but I do believe Cook will not put up with any chancers and changes will be made in January once more.
Strategy wise, the system he wants to play, I mean a lot of teams are playing it right, Chelsea's formation is a variation on the theme. |
Put up with chancers? These are the players who had such supreme character that they were handpicked by the club to run towards adversity - that had to show they wanted to be here etc
How many players has Paul Cook managed here now? 40? 50? And he can’t find 11 of them to work who aren’t the right character - how unlucky can one man get |  |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:12 - Dec 2 with 1059 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 20:17 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
History hasn't taught us anything of the sort.
No appointment in Ipswich Town's history supports the assertion that good managerial stints usually begin with 9 months of sustained poor form. Most of them demonstrate quite the opposite, that sustained poor performance is usually a prelude simply to more poor performance, until finally the end comes.
You might believe it will be different this time, you might have observed things about us that lead you to believe we'll improve soon. You might even be right! But, history definitively isn't on your side here. History says that past performance is the best guide to future performance, that we won't improve dramatically from here onwards and that Cook won't turn it round, like Lambert, Jewell, Keane and Hurst didn't. |
Nonsense, I'm afraid. We finished 14th in Lyall's first season. That was sustained poor form. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:18 - Dec 2 with 1034 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:12 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Nonsense, I'm afraid. We finished 14th in Lyall's first season. That was sustained poor form. |
and he actually took us backwards from the much maligned John Duncan's final season | | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:19 - Dec 2 with 1029 views | jayessess |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:12 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Nonsense, I'm afraid. We finished 14th in Lyall's first season. That was sustained poor form. |
Look up the meaning of the word "usually" and get back to me. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:21 - Dec 2 with 1018 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:19 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
Look up the meaning of the word "usually" and get back to me. |
I thought you wrote
"Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all". | | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:22 - Dec 2 with 1013 views | chrismakin |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:02 - Dec 2 by The_Flashing_Smile |
That's all well and good but if you continuously change your opinion and don't stick with anything you'll never achieve anything. And you'll look like a twonk. |
I've achieved plenty thank you. I'll continue to change my opinion depending on the circumstances involved. I was you once with PC. After a while 1 thing will frustrate you and before you know it that frustrating leads to annoyance and then you get to the stage your eyes open to his limitations. But hey. We all hope he sorts it out. No one likes a person to lose a job they've tried hard at. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:28 - Dec 2 with 995 views | jayessess |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:21 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
I thought you wrote
"Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all". |
"Usually" is literally in the post you were responding to. It really is an epic bit of straw clutching to claim history's on Cook's side because John Lyall had an average season in the league above 30 years ago, when we've spent the last decade waiting patiently for total losers like Jewell, Keane and Lambert to come good. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:29 - Dec 2 with 991 views | chrismakin |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 21:56 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
Msot managerial stints that start badly end in failure, that's true for football in general and true for us.
Every single one of Burley, Lyall or Robson's league finishes were perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. "They turned it round with time" isn't true, they were all consistently above par is all. |
Also.. football has changed drastically since those days
With financial restrictions at play and the owners needing to see their investments going somewhere it needs progress to be shown in both performance and results.
We need to be able to sell players. To sell players they need to perform. If the manager fails to get them going. It can all go sour very quickly.
These people saying time has shown patience works.
Flip side..
Time showed that Evans financial input didn't take us up. The rest is history.
None of us have a clue what level of patience these new owners have and how long they'd throw money into the club without promotion. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:38 - Dec 2 with 978 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:28 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
"Usually" is literally in the post you were responding to. It really is an epic bit of straw clutching to claim history's on Cook's side because John Lyall had an average season in the league above 30 years ago, when we've spent the last decade waiting patiently for total losers like Jewell, Keane and Lambert to come good. |
Mate you claimed that every single one of Lyalls finishes was above par. Just pointing out you are talking nonsense | | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:45 - Dec 2 with 965 views | jayessess |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:38 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
Mate you claimed that every single one of Lyalls finishes was above par. Just pointing out you are talking nonsense |
The post which The Flashing Smile called nonsense (are you the same person, did you forget to log out of your sockpuppet?) was about what usually happens with managers.
As is happens I didn't say every finish was above par, but rather than they were all perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. Which, whilst 14th in 1990 was certainly on the low end of respectable, is still true. | |
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:52 - Dec 2 with 953 views | Yallop |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:45 - Dec 2 by jayessess |
The post which The Flashing Smile called nonsense (are you the same person, did you forget to log out of your sockpuppet?) was about what usually happens with managers.
As is happens I didn't say every finish was above par, but rather than they were all perfectly respectable for a club of Ipswich's size and resources. Which, whilst 14th in 1990 was certainly on the low end of respectable, is still true. |
Multiple accounts ha ha I'm a bit old and busy for that but feel free to ask Phil if you so wish.... I will try and avoid words other posters have used from now on.
Anyway Duncan got fired for finishing 9th. Trust me 14th the following season wasn't respectable. | | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 23:47 - Dec 2 with 909 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:52 - Dec 2 by Yallop |
Multiple accounts ha ha I'm a bit old and busy for that but feel free to ask Phil if you so wish.... I will try and avoid words other posters have used from now on.
Anyway Duncan got fired for finishing 9th. Trust me 14th the following season wasn't respectable. |
It's a feck site better than 11th in div 3 |  | | |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 04:34 - Dec 3 with 847 views | pennblue |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:08 - Dec 2 by itfcjoe |
Put up with chancers? These are the players who had such supreme character that they were handpicked by the club to run towards adversity - that had to show they wanted to be here etc
How many players has Paul Cook managed here now? 40? 50? And he can’t find 11 of them to work who aren’t the right character - how unlucky can one man get |
ha ha, have you ever tried recruiting a team of people before? I guess not!
It's not just about character, we need quality and character (and well you know it). Not such an easy combination to find, takes time.
Which is why they have bolstered recruitment, to try and reduce the number of misses and near misses.
But you know all this really. Who is a manager that can recruit a team of players like this first time of asking? Probably more luck than judgement. [Post edited 3 Dec 2021 5:03]
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| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 07:23 - Dec 3 with 789 views | Keaneish |
| Is there a consensus on how long we give a manager now? on 22:06 - Dec 2 by jeera |
Most of the examples being touted around are either from years ago when things were significantly different to now, or referring to the leagues above. Or both.
Mostly different circumstances to those we find ourselves under.
Anyone who is convinced everything is fine wouldn't be clutching at straws like this.
No one is happy with how things are, just some don't want to say it for some reason.
It's ok to still want to be supportive but also be concerned that things aren't going the way we'd hoped. |
My point isn’t that things are “fine”, we’re tenth in League One. My point is that there are mitigating circumstances to give Cook more time. Calls for him to go are massively premature and it’s telling that no-one has any better suggestions or plan!
Those examples are from years ago, it’s a historic look and logically so and agreed, things were and are significantly different, which is why Cook gets more time. | |
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