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Lads this energy thing 09:21 - Feb 3 with 1597 viewschicoazul

So the government has made energy so expensive due in part to tax that they are now going to give tax rebates so people can afford their energy bill.

Edited out by TWTD admin despite me having it for months without anyone crying about it
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Lads this energy thing on 09:23 - Feb 3 with 1295 viewsZx1988

That's their entire MO, though.

They won't take pre-emptive action in order to prevent a situation occurring, as they will gain more/better media coverage by half-assedly fixing the issue once it has occurred.

And the fixes that have been proposed truly are as half-assed as they come.

The wealthy will have no issues paying, and those in receipt of means-tested benefits will also be supported.

The problem will be for those who Theresa May once described as 'Just About Managing' - they earn too much (pre-outgoings) to qualify for any sort of support, but having to pay increased energy prices will force them to make some extremely difficult financial decisions.
[Post edited 3 Feb 9:28]

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Lads this energy thing on 09:25 - Feb 3 with 1268 viewsStirlingArcher

The wholesale energy market is what's really blown the prices out the water - tax is relative to the price of what you're buying.

so the government, for once, is not actually a complete blundering clusterfudge
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Lads this energy thing on 09:26 - Feb 3 with 1262 viewsGuthrum

Tax stuff, see if we get away with it. Backtrack if not.

The Treasury probably isn't happy (again).

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Insulation Britain on 09:26 - Feb 3 with 1258 viewsunstableblue

This government has presided over 3 failed green deals to incentivise people and businesses to get insulating our shockingly inefficient housing stock.

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Lads this energy thing on 09:26 - Feb 3 with 1254 viewschicoazul

Lads this energy thing on 09:25 - Feb 3 by StirlingArcher

The wholesale energy market is what's really blown the prices out the water - tax is relative to the price of what you're buying.

so the government, for once, is not actually a complete blundering clusterfudge


What is behind the restriction in supply though? There is gas but we arenโ€™t getting it, seems to be the thing.

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Lads this energy thing on 09:29 - Feb 3 with 1219 viewsZx1988

Lads this energy thing on 09:26 - Feb 3 by chicoazul

What is behind the restriction in supply though? There is gas but we arenโ€™t getting it, seems to be the thing.


There is gas and we're also exporting it.

I can't remember the precise details, but I attended a seminar last week which highlighted that, alongside our partial dependence upon foreign gas, we still export a significant amount elsewhere because the companies that now own our gas supplies can get better prices for it by shipping it away from the UK.

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Lads this energy thing on 09:35 - Feb 3 with 1180 viewsEwan_Oozami

Lads this energy thing on 09:29 - Feb 3 by Zx1988

There is gas and we're also exporting it.

I can't remember the precise details, but I attended a seminar last week which highlighted that, alongside our partial dependence upon foreign gas, we still export a significant amount elsewhere because the companies that now own our gas supplies can get better prices for it by shipping it away from the UK.


You are correct - since privatisation there is no such thing as "UK-owned" gas as such...

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Lads this energy thing on 09:36 - Feb 3 with 1172 viewsSteve_M

Lads this energy thing on 09:26 - Feb 3 by chicoazul

What is behind the restriction in supply though? There is gas but we arenโ€™t getting it, seems to be the thing.


Global demand. Asian gas demand pushed up prices in the second half of last year and although they have reduced somewhat that exacerbated the lack of gas in storage in Europe. That lack of gas is down to reduced volumes from Russia last Summer, certainly some production issues were a cause but hard not to link that to Ukraine.

The likelihood of the UK being dependent on imported gas as coal generation reduced and nuclear power stations closed down was obvious 15-20 years ago but the lack of desire to build new nuclear generation has eventually caused a problem. Renewables aren't a great factor here really.

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Lads this energy thing on 09:49 - Feb 3 with 1101 viewsHam_and_Eggs

Lads this energy thing on 09:23 - Feb 3 by Zx1988

That's their entire MO, though.

They won't take pre-emptive action in order to prevent a situation occurring, as they will gain more/better media coverage by half-assedly fixing the issue once it has occurred.

And the fixes that have been proposed truly are as half-assed as they come.

The wealthy will have no issues paying, and those in receipt of means-tested benefits will also be supported.

The problem will be for those who Theresa May once described as 'Just About Managing' - they earn too much (pre-outgoings) to qualify for any sort of support, but having to pay increased energy prices will force them to make some extremely difficult financial decisions.
[Post edited 3 Feb 9:28]


Oh yeah I forgot about the JAMs, I must admit I'm more of a ham and eggs kind of guy
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Lads this energy thing on 09:57 - Feb 3 with 1064 viewsusm

Lads this energy thing on 09:25 - Feb 3 by StirlingArcher

The wholesale energy market is what's really blown the prices out the water - tax is relative to the price of what you're buying.

so the government, for once, is not actually a complete blundering clusterfudge


No no no, it's all BOJO's fault - well him and Maggie.

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Lads this energy thing on 10:06 - Feb 3 with 1029 viewsBent_double

There are women on this site you know, aren't they allowed an opinion?

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Lads this energy thing on 10:19 - Feb 3 with 961 viewsPinewoodblue

The easiest thing would be to remove VAT from gas and electricity but suspect this would actually lead to a rise in inflation.

Say this because industry, and business as a whole, offsets the VAT they pay on energy against the VAT they collect.

Presumably Domestic energy use represents less than a third of total energy used.

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Lads this energy thing on 10:26 - Feb 3 with 928 viewschicoazul

Lads this energy thing on 10:06 - Feb 3 by Bent_double

There are women on this site you know, aren't they allowed an opinion?


No.

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Lads this energy thing on 10:27 - Feb 3 with 926 viewschicoazul

Lads this energy thing on 09:36 - Feb 3 by Steve_M

Global demand. Asian gas demand pushed up prices in the second half of last year and although they have reduced somewhat that exacerbated the lack of gas in storage in Europe. That lack of gas is down to reduced volumes from Russia last Summer, certainly some production issues were a cause but hard not to link that to Ukraine.

The likelihood of the UK being dependent on imported gas as coal generation reduced and nuclear power stations closed down was obvious 15-20 years ago but the lack of desire to build new nuclear generation has eventually caused a problem. Renewables aren't a great factor here really.


Apparently part of the reason bills are going up is because the wind blew less than usual.
No seriously thatโ€™s what the bbc says.
Thanks for that though, I was hoping youโ€™d contribute!

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Lads this energy thing on 10:40 - Feb 3 with 894 viewsbrazil1982

The only tax on energy, so far as I can understand, is VAT which hasn't been increased since 2011.
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Lads this energy thing on 10:43 - Feb 3 with 886 viewsElderGrizzly

Lads this energy thing on 09:29 - Feb 3 by Zx1988

There is gas and we're also exporting it.

I can't remember the precise details, but I attended a seminar last week which highlighted that, alongside our partial dependence upon foreign gas, we still export a significant amount elsewhere because the companies that now own our gas supplies can get better prices for it by shipping it away from the UK.


And this Govt oversaw the drastic reduction of any gas storage facilities we had too, which leaves us more vulnerable to the market rates at a particular time.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/sep/24/how-uk-energy-policies-have-lef
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Lads this energy thing on 10:44 - Feb 3 with 878 viewsJ2BLUE

Lads this energy thing on 10:06 - Feb 3 by Bent_double

There are women on this site you know, aren't they allowed an opinion?


Sounds like a dangerous road.

Truly impaired.
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Lads this energy thing on 10:46 - Feb 3 with 869 viewsPinewoodblue

Lads this energy thing on 10:40 - Feb 3 by brazil1982

The only tax on energy, so far as I can understand, is VAT which hasn't been increased since 2011.


The rate may not have increased but the sum raised is up significantly.

๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฆ
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Lads this energy thing on 10:55 - Feb 3 with 832 viewsRyorry

It's about time you dragged yourself into the 21stC & recognised that women use this site too.

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Lads this energy thing on 10:56 - Feb 3 with 823 viewsLord_Lucan

Lads this energy thing on 10:19 - Feb 3 by Pinewoodblue

The easiest thing would be to remove VAT from gas and electricity but suspect this would actually lead to a rise in inflation.

Say this because industry, and business as a whole, offsets the VAT they pay on energy against the VAT they collect.

Presumably Domestic energy use represents less than a third of total energy used.


But isn't the Vat on domestic energy only 5% - in which case removing it would be an insignificance.

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Lads this energy thing on 11:08 - Feb 3 with 781 viewsnodge_blue

"So the government has made energy so expensive"

Come on. Lets at least be factually correct here. The government don't set energy prices. The government haven't made energy expensive. If that was the case then why are the rest of the world also experiencing it?

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Lads this energy thing on 11:15 - Feb 3 with 739 viewsRyorry

Lads this energy thing on 11:08 - Feb 3 by nodge_blue

"So the government has made energy so expensive"

Come on. Lets at least be factually correct here. The government don't set energy prices. The government haven't made energy expensive. If that was the case then why are the rest of the world also experiencing it?


Privatisation of the electricity industry was one of the worst things Thatcher did, and she did some seriously bad things. She'd have sold her Granny if the price was right.

The cap on energy bills in France (and I think Germany too) is a max of 5%. The French state has an 80% stake in energy companies. They also handed out 100โ‚ฌ in December to anyone on a lower income to help cover the electricity bill.
[Post edited 3 Feb 11:17]

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Lads this energy thing on 11:20 - Feb 3 with 707 viewsElderGrizzly

Lads this energy thing on 10:56 - Feb 3 by Lord_Lucan

But isn't the Vat on domestic energy only 5% - in which case removing it would be an insignificance.


Correct. And the proposed help, with cut in council tax will be less than the ยฃ20 a week reduction just removed from Universal Credit.

Also, at 11:01 this morning Anglian Water announced their 6.8% increase for this year.

Not that i'm cynical or anything, but handy timing when everyone will be looking at Gas/Electricity prices
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Lads this energy thing on 11:21 - Feb 3 with 707 viewsStirlingArcher

Lads this energy thing on 10:56 - Feb 3 by Lord_Lucan

But isn't the Vat on domestic energy only 5% - in which case removing it would be an insignificance.


market costs are up

so if the unit rate has gone from 5p to 10p per unit
5% of 5p vs 5% of 10p and your VAT has doubled

and we mostly use more gas in winter (October -April)
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Lads this energy thing on 11:22 - Feb 3 with 704 viewsnodge_blue

Lads this energy thing on 11:15 - Feb 3 by Ryorry

Privatisation of the electricity industry was one of the worst things Thatcher did, and she did some seriously bad things. She'd have sold her Granny if the price was right.

The cap on energy bills in France (and I think Germany too) is a max of 5%. The French state has an 80% stake in energy companies. They also handed out 100โ‚ฌ in December to anyone on a lower income to help cover the electricity bill.
[Post edited 3 Feb 11:17]


But what sets gas prices? When ships with gas are on their way to a country and another country says they will pay more for that very gas, those ships have then basically gone to that country with their gas. Hence the UK energy companies then have to up their offer price.

It seems that China had a very cold Winter last year and ended up buying much more gas than usual. Gas which would otherwise have come into the European markets to some degree.

Energy bills are not now currently high because of the UK government making them high which is what the OP had in the first sentence.

I don't mind people having a pop at the government. Thats all fair game. Im a bit fed up with the internet just being a ground of half or zero truths feeding more half truths.

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