| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now 09:06 - Feb 28 with 2732 views | Guthrum |
A swift ceasefire, at least, would be good.
And, perhaps, plausible. Fighting has not gone the way Moscow wanted and sanctions are perhaps heavier than they were expecting, too. Meanwhile Kyiv just wants to prevent collapse and any further casualties. Much now depends upon egoes and hubris. |  |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 10:26 - Feb 28 with 1112 views | WD19 |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 10:04 - Feb 28 by nodge_blue |
Cornered tigers don't like it.
There has to be an out for Putin somehow.
I fear he's unstable. We need to tread a fine line now. I'm not for appeasing dictators but we can't trap him entirely.
However, in terms of nukes, as one expert said last night, if his short term intention was to use them, he wouldn't be telling us about it. Which makes sense. |
I think you are on to something......Cant we tell the Chinese that the ground up bones of Putin are an aphrodisiac or something!? |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 10:44 - Feb 28 with 1077 views | Churchman |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 10:04 - Feb 28 by nodge_blue |
Cornered tigers don't like it.
There has to be an out for Putin somehow.
I fear he's unstable. We need to tread a fine line now. I'm not for appeasing dictators but we can't trap him entirely.
However, in terms of nukes, as one expert said last night, if his short term intention was to use them, he wouldn't be telling us about it. Which makes sense. |
It feels like Putin has trapped himself. I doubt he anticipated the response he’s had and I doubt he’d be wanting or needing to talk at all had Ukraine not put up such brave and public resistance. |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:01 - Feb 28 with 1047 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 10:04 - Feb 28 by Guthrum |
When someone's thumped them back.
Putin has no need to look reasonable, except to his supporters among the Russian elites (and to some extent their general public). |
The general public is what I was thinking of - and that's a massive reason. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:06 - Feb 28 with 1041 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 09:57 - Feb 28 by EdwardStone |
But every hour that passes the Russian economy collapses further, the shipments of Stinger missiles and other hardware get nearer to where they are needed and wavering nations are seeing which way the winds of Geopolitics are blowing
I'm not sure any delays favour the Russians in this case |
"But every hour that passes the Russian economy collapses further."
All the reports I've seen are saying the sanctions are going to take a long time to take effect. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:14 - Feb 28 with 1015 views | EdwardStone |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:06 - Feb 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"But every hour that passes the Russian economy collapses further."
All the reports I've seen are saying the sanctions are going to take a long time to take effect. |
Only what I have gleaned from the morning papers. but interest rates up from 9 to 20% this morning...
Obvs some of the mechanisms will take longer to bite, but some will have an immediate impact |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:15 - Feb 28 with 1017 views | Guthrum |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:01 - Feb 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
The general public is what I was thinking of - and that's a massive reason. |
The Russian general public has relatively little influence upon what happens (unless there start being serious mass protests). Moreover, a lot of them see the world through the same historical/geopolitical lens as Putin himself, thus are more prepared to believe his justifications in the way a Western audience wouldn't.
Putin is a product of Russia, not a philosophical outlier. | |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:27 - Feb 28 with 993 views | WeWereZombies |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 09:27 - Feb 28 by Guthrum |
Time gained is for both sides. A pause allows yet more weapons to arrive in Ukraine, further eroding Russia's military superiority. Plus defences can be reorganised, militias armed and trained.
I'm not saying Putin's aim has gone away, but is it any longer practical to achieve (this time around) without damage to Russia and its economy. If the Ukrainians are willing to make some paper concessions (e.g. agreeing not to join NATO), then Putin can go home with his "victory" and end the fighting before his own people get restive at the casualty figures. |
The threat of joining NATO is not the only bargaining chip Ukraine is considering:
'10:37 Zelensky calls for immediate EU membership
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is urging the European Union to grant his country "immediate" membership.
"Our goal is to be together with all Europeans and, most importantly, to be on an equal footing. I'm sure it's fair. I'm sure it's possible," he said.
In a video statement Zelensky also urged Russian soldiers to lay down their weapons.
"Abandon your equipment. Get out of here. Don't believe your commanders. Don't believe your propagandists. Just save your lives," he said.
The Ukrainian leader also said authorities would release convicts with combat experience so that they could help defend the country.
"We have taken a decision which is not easy from the moral point of view, but which is useful from the point of view of our defences," he said.'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60542877 |  |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:31 - Feb 28 with 982 views | WeWereZombies |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:14 - Feb 28 by EdwardStone |
Only what I have gleaned from the morning papers. but interest rates up from 9 to 20% this morning...
Obvs some of the mechanisms will take longer to bite, but some will have an immediate impact |
Also the rouble has lost one sixth of its value against the US dollar this morning, a snippet about this from the BBC's live feed:
'As a result, Russia's central bank has more than doubled its key interest rate to 20% from 9.5%.
It marks a bid to halt the rapid fall in the value of Russia's currency the rouble against the US dollar, which threatens to wipe out its buying power and destroy the savings of ordinary Russians.' | |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 11:34 - Feb 28 with 974 views | Edmundo |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 09:30 - Feb 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know what there is to negotiate.
Ukraine: Get out of our country.
Russia: No.
Silence.
Tea lady: Tea anyone? |
The good biscuits first then. |  |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 12:52 - Feb 28 with 898 views | Kievthegreat |
Each side will.be weighing up their options. It's plausible that a ceasefire will help Russia sort it's logistics and could be used as a tool to buy them time to build for a renewed offensive. I personally think this is most likely as they still haven't acehived any complete objective. I think the least they'd settle for as a resolution is a land bridge to Crimea and access to the banks of the Dneiper where the North Crimean Canal starts as this resolves the water issues for Crimea.
For Ukraine, they need to weigh up whether a ceasefire helps them more than Russia, and whether they'd surrender the aforementioned land. The issue Ukraine have is that while being on the defensive helps massively in the fighting, they are losing territory and there is a significant risk that they won't have the offensive ability to counter and get more land back. This sort of situation could allow Russia to grind their way to owning more of the country. |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 16:30 - Feb 28 with 835 views | Kievthegreat |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 12:52 - Feb 28 by Kievthegreat |
Each side will.be weighing up their options. It's plausible that a ceasefire will help Russia sort it's logistics and could be used as a tool to buy them time to build for a renewed offensive. I personally think this is most likely as they still haven't acehived any complete objective. I think the least they'd settle for as a resolution is a land bridge to Crimea and access to the banks of the Dneiper where the North Crimean Canal starts as this resolves the water issues for Crimea.
For Ukraine, they need to weigh up whether a ceasefire helps them more than Russia, and whether they'd surrender the aforementioned land. The issue Ukraine have is that while being on the defensive helps massively in the fighting, they are losing territory and there is a significant risk that they won't have the offensive ability to counter and get more land back. This sort of situation could allow Russia to grind their way to owning more of the country. |
Seems that Putin still has an extraordinarily high bar.
Not sure Ukraine will be able to meet it.
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 16:38 - Feb 28 with 827 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 16:30 - Feb 28 by Kievthegreat |
Seems that Putin still has an extraordinarily high bar.
Not sure Ukraine will be able to meet it.
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Ended with no resolution. Not surprising sadly
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 20:50 - Feb 28 with 736 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 16:38 - Feb 28 by ElderGrizzly |
Ended with no resolution. Not surprising sadly
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My little skit on page 1 was pretty much spot on then. Quelle surprise. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 21:22 - Feb 28 with 700 views | WicklowBlue |
The unity of international response to his actions along with sanctions I would hope have an affect. I'd like to think that Putin saw this as a quick win and didn't count on the over whelming negative international response. Maybe he did and is just going to double down...6000 Russians now detained for protesting, as others have said the only way to stop this is from within Russia itself.
RTE news : Is this the beginning of the end for Putin?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0228/1283365-russia-putin-analysis/ |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 21:53 - Feb 28 with 687 views | Guthrum |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 20:50 - Feb 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
My little skit on page 1 was pretty much spot on then. Quelle surprise. |
Tho they have agreed to a second round of talks. Too much to expect them to find a basis for agreement immediately. Just a shame Putin was lying to Macron again when he said he'd suspend fighting while discussions are ongoing.
Probably comes down to the fact Mariupol hasn't fallen yet, to complete the Donbas-Crimea corridor. | |
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| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 22:07 - Feb 28 with 668 views | BarcaBlue |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 21:53 - Feb 28 by Guthrum |
Tho they have agreed to a second round of talks. Too much to expect them to find a basis for agreement immediately. Just a shame Putin was lying to Macron again when he said he'd suspend fighting while discussions are ongoing.
Probably comes down to the fact Mariupol hasn't fallen yet, to complete the Donbas-Crimea corridor. |
It may well be a case of Macron overstating the outcome of his chat with Putin. |  | | |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 22:21 - Feb 28 with 642 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Russo-Ukrainian talks in Pripyat due to begin about now on 09:30 - Feb 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I don't know what there is to negotiate.
Ukraine: Get out of our country.
Russia: No.
Silence.
Tea lady: Tea anyone? |
Think it would be more like this...
Ukraine: Get out of our country.
Russia: You're not a real country.
Belarus: *wags tail*
Silence.
Tea lady: Tea anyone? |  |
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