| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" 11:20 - May 9 with 6723 views | Keno |
although it should really be after Nick Clegg who is the second best Prime Ministers we never had.
Just started reading this and I just wondered who y'all think would have made a good PM but never got the chance |  |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:15 - May 9 with 1030 views | Radlett_blue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 11:50 - May 9 by Lord_Lucan |
Red - Alan Johnson **
Blue - Michael Portillo
Orange - Paddy Pantsdown
** John Smith was good but possibly a bit like a dead singer who is remembered as slightly better than they were |
Johnson (whichever Christian name) no, not for me.
Red - Jenkins, Healey, Smith all come to mind.
Blue - Rab Butler, Hague (when older).
Libs - David Owen or Steele, but Ashdown wasn't too bad. Clegg was a pygmy in comparison. |  |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:25 - May 9 with 1022 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:11 - May 9 by Darth_Koont |
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ehrc+criticism
It’s a flawed organisation. Having said that I thought the report on Labour antisemitism was overall fair enough. And the implied criticism of McNicol et al was of course completely justified. Utter w@nkers that threw aside genuine antisemitism complaints — and Jewish people under the bus — for smeary gain.
As I said, one of the worst political and democratic scandals ever. But you know that |
You must have read a different report then.
“We found specific examples of harassment, discrimination and political interference in our evidence,” the EHRC said in its foreword, adding: “But equally of concern was a lack of leadership within the Labour party on these issues, which is hard to reconcile with its stated commitment to a zero-tolerance approach to antisemitism.”
“Although some improvements have been made to the process for dealing with antisemitism complaints, it is hard not to conclude that antisemitism within the Labour party could have been tackled more effectively if the leadership had chosen to do so,” the report states.
The EHRC concludes that “there was political interference in the handling of antisemitism complaints”, which it said was part of a “wider practice” of the leader of the opposition’s office getting involved “in disciplinary cases that were deemed ‘politically sensitive’”.
It reviewed 70 complaint files between March 2016 and May 2019 and concluded that there were 23 instances of political interference by staff from the leader’s office and others.
“These included clear examples of interference at various stages throughout the complaint-handling process, including in decisions on whether to investigate and whether to suspend,” the EHRC said.
As a result, the equality watchdog concluded this “was indirectly discriminatory and unlawful” and it held that the Labour party was legally responsible for it.
There was “political interference” in decisions about whether to investigate complaints, the EHRC said, citing the example of a complaint made in April 2018 about Jeremy Corbyn, who had previously posted a statement in support of an artist who had produced an antisemitic mural in the East End of London.
Staff from Corbyn’s office called for the case to be dismissed, emailing the party’s governance and legal unit, which was responsible for complaints. The email said: “The complaint itself seems to fall well below the threshold required for investigation and if so surely the decision to dismiss it can be taken now.”
Staff from Corbyn’s office also “amended and approved” the written response to the complainant “to include details on Jeremy Corbyn’s actions in relation to the mural” even though Labour’s stated process excluded staff from the leader’s office becoming involved in complaints.
This bit should be familiar Koonters
The report said Labour was responsible for two cases of unlawful harassment, where anti-Semitic tropes were used and complaints about them were branded as fake or smears.
etc etc etc.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/29/key-findings-of-the-ehrc-inquir
Christ it's like groundhog day on here. [Post edited 9 May 2022 21:30]
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:32 - May 9 with 1009 views | Ryorry |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 19:55 - May 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Would take us out of NATO. |
Oh I'd forgotten that. Yeah, would rule her out for me, but as the Greens don't have enough MPs to govern, she could only be PM in a coalition where she'd be outnumbered re Nato anyway. |  |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:35 - May 9 with 1006 views | Ryorry |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 20:06 - May 9 by Keno |
Only vaguely
was he one of those they wheeled out at election time? |
No, much better than that. Was often on late night R5l, where he had his own regular slot for political discussion. Was pretty much universally highly regarded iirc. | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 02:05 - May 10 with 933 views | IPS_wich |
For those of us whose natural inclination is centre left, there's a whole bunch of regrets:
1: If only the SDP had managed to get more of a foothold in the mid-80s (I'm just a bit too young to understand what went wrong)
2: The death of John Smith
3: Tony Blair losing his mind after his first term (at university when he first became PM and for a while I thought he was the best PM we would ever have)
4: David Milliband losing the leadership contest to his brother.
5: Lib Dems agreeing to jump in with the Conservatives in 2010. Don't get me wrong - I was very happy they didn't prop up a minority Labour government because I had no confidence in "eradicated boom and bust" Brown - but the Orange Book manifesto of Clegg, Cable and Davey was about the closest articulation of my view of the world - and they abandoned most of it for a small taste of power.
An interesting observation from Australia where voting is compulsory - neither major party veer very far from the centre ground because the majority of the electorate have no interest in extreme politics. Still get useless politicians and leaders (the current PM being a prime example) but the manifestos of both major parties are very moderate. |  | | |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 07:28 - May 10 with 882 views | Radlett_blue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:25 - May 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You must have read a different report then.
“We found specific examples of harassment, discrimination and political interference in our evidence,” the EHRC said in its foreword, adding: “But equally of concern was a lack of leadership within the Labour party on these issues, which is hard to reconcile with its stated commitment to a zero-tolerance approach to antisemitism.”
“Although some improvements have been made to the process for dealing with antisemitism complaints, it is hard not to conclude that antisemitism within the Labour party could have been tackled more effectively if the leadership had chosen to do so,” the report states.
The EHRC concludes that “there was political interference in the handling of antisemitism complaints”, which it said was part of a “wider practice” of the leader of the opposition’s office getting involved “in disciplinary cases that were deemed ‘politically sensitive’”.
It reviewed 70 complaint files between March 2016 and May 2019 and concluded that there were 23 instances of political interference by staff from the leader’s office and others.
“These included clear examples of interference at various stages throughout the complaint-handling process, including in decisions on whether to investigate and whether to suspend,” the EHRC said.
As a result, the equality watchdog concluded this “was indirectly discriminatory and unlawful” and it held that the Labour party was legally responsible for it.
There was “political interference” in decisions about whether to investigate complaints, the EHRC said, citing the example of a complaint made in April 2018 about Jeremy Corbyn, who had previously posted a statement in support of an artist who had produced an antisemitic mural in the East End of London.
Staff from Corbyn’s office called for the case to be dismissed, emailing the party’s governance and legal unit, which was responsible for complaints. The email said: “The complaint itself seems to fall well below the threshold required for investigation and if so surely the decision to dismiss it can be taken now.”
Staff from Corbyn’s office also “amended and approved” the written response to the complainant “to include details on Jeremy Corbyn’s actions in relation to the mural” even though Labour’s stated process excluded staff from the leader’s office becoming involved in complaints.
This bit should be familiar Koonters
The report said Labour was responsible for two cases of unlawful harassment, where anti-Semitic tropes were used and complaints about them were branded as fake or smears.
etc etc etc.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/29/key-findings-of-the-ehrc-inquir
Christ it's like groundhog day on here. [Post edited 9 May 2022 21:30]
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Continued on page 94?
#davespart
#privateeye | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 07:49 - May 10 with 854 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Anyone living in Saffron Walden knows the answer to that one.
Not sure why you think Cleggy would have been a decent Prime Minister when he was such an awful Deputy PM who sold out his party, his constituents- and latterly his soul. | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 08:22 - May 10 with 843 views | Churchman |
Clegg always looked like constipation was really troubling him.
Red - Aneurin (Nye) Bevan
Blue - Michael Heseltine
Yellow - David Steele
As an outsider, I reckon Kenny Everett as PM and Spike Milligan as his deputy might have been the way forward. Kenny could have gone to meet Putin as Cupid Stunt, Biden as Captain Kremmen and Macron as Sid Snot. Imagine the confusion. The world would have been a happier place. [Post edited 10 May 2022 8:29]
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 08:38 - May 10 with 827 views | chicoazul |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 19:55 - May 9 by GlasgowBlue |
Would take us out of NATO. |
Good. NATO is an utterly pointless organisation that only exists now to reinforce the American hegemony. It’s way past time it was shut down the USSR hadn’t existed for 30 years. |  |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 09:02 - May 10 with 815 views | lowhouseblue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:11 - May 9 by Darth_Koont |
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=ehrc+criticism
It’s a flawed organisation. Having said that I thought the report on Labour antisemitism was overall fair enough. And the implied criticism of McNicol et al was of course completely justified. Utter w@nkers that threw aside genuine antisemitism complaints — and Jewish people under the bus — for smeary gain.
As I said, one of the worst political and democratic scandals ever. But you know that |
if you followed your own advice, google would tell you that those criticisms have been rejected by the international body which oversees the accreditation of national human rights bodies. in doing it's job to protect and promote human rights in the uk, the ehrc has been attacked by a small group of politically motivated obsessives with grudges - just like you. what a place to find yourself, eh - attacking the body that protects human rights. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 09:59 - May 10 with 781 views | Churchman |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 08:38 - May 10 by chicoazul |
Good. NATO is an utterly pointless organisation that only exists now to reinforce the American hegemony. It’s way past time it was shut down the USSR hadn’t existed for 30 years. |
18 months ago you had a point. Countries not contributing the US being mugged off by Europe. Russia, Germany, Italy, France all best mates. Arm in arm forever. U.K. dismantling what was left of its military, cheap gas and trade, especially with the tories Brexit suicide, was our way forward if you can call it that. Roubles bags, money laundering, sunny uplands.
Back to now, there hasn’t been a greater need for NATO since USSR collapsed. It needs to be properly supported and countries like Germany need to start contributing. Without NATO Putin will rebuild the USSR. Why shouldn’t he? Might is right and you don’t even need to give a reason why. Just take what you want.
If Ukraine had been a NATO member (blocked by France and Germany through fear), do you think Putin would have attacked it? I don’t. No wonder countries like Finland and Sweden are changing their minds. It’s the only protection they potentially have. [Post edited 10 May 2022 10:55]
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 10:09 - May 10 with 776 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 21:25 - May 9 by GlasgowBlue |
You must have read a different report then.
“We found specific examples of harassment, discrimination and political interference in our evidence,” the EHRC said in its foreword, adding: “But equally of concern was a lack of leadership within the Labour party on these issues, which is hard to reconcile with its stated commitment to a zero-tolerance approach to antisemitism.”
“Although some improvements have been made to the process for dealing with antisemitism complaints, it is hard not to conclude that antisemitism within the Labour party could have been tackled more effectively if the leadership had chosen to do so,” the report states.
The EHRC concludes that “there was political interference in the handling of antisemitism complaints”, which it said was part of a “wider practice” of the leader of the opposition’s office getting involved “in disciplinary cases that were deemed ‘politically sensitive’”.
It reviewed 70 complaint files between March 2016 and May 2019 and concluded that there were 23 instances of political interference by staff from the leader’s office and others.
“These included clear examples of interference at various stages throughout the complaint-handling process, including in decisions on whether to investigate and whether to suspend,” the EHRC said.
As a result, the equality watchdog concluded this “was indirectly discriminatory and unlawful” and it held that the Labour party was legally responsible for it.
There was “political interference” in decisions about whether to investigate complaints, the EHRC said, citing the example of a complaint made in April 2018 about Jeremy Corbyn, who had previously posted a statement in support of an artist who had produced an antisemitic mural in the East End of London.
Staff from Corbyn’s office called for the case to be dismissed, emailing the party’s governance and legal unit, which was responsible for complaints. The email said: “The complaint itself seems to fall well below the threshold required for investigation and if so surely the decision to dismiss it can be taken now.”
Staff from Corbyn’s office also “amended and approved” the written response to the complainant “to include details on Jeremy Corbyn’s actions in relation to the mural” even though Labour’s stated process excluded staff from the leader’s office becoming involved in complaints.
This bit should be familiar Koonters
The report said Labour was responsible for two cases of unlawful harassment, where anti-Semitic tropes were used and complaints about them were branded as fake or smears.
etc etc etc.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/29/key-findings-of-the-ehrc-inquir
Christ it's like groundhog day on here. [Post edited 9 May 2022 21:30]
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Corbyn’s political interference was to try and speed up the complaints process. The EHRC wanted it to be an independent process, which is fair enough after the disaster of McNicol and Sam Matthews who lied about the complaints process at the time and delayed it. And who then went on the Panorama hit job and pointed the finger at the left because they’re brazen liars.
As you know.
Given what was going on, I don’t blame the EHRC in the report that a lot could have been done better. I blame the people most responsible for sabotaging it and weaponising it.
Not least because confecting a crisis and playing on the fears of a minority is pretty f@cking disgusting. |  |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 11:23 - May 10 with 721 views | GlasgowBlue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 10:09 - May 10 by Darth_Koont |
Corbyn’s political interference was to try and speed up the complaints process. The EHRC wanted it to be an independent process, which is fair enough after the disaster of McNicol and Sam Matthews who lied about the complaints process at the time and delayed it. And who then went on the Panorama hit job and pointed the finger at the left because they’re brazen liars.
As you know.
Given what was going on, I don’t blame the EHRC in the report that a lot could have been done better. I blame the people most responsible for sabotaging it and weaponising it.
Not least because confecting a crisis and playing on the fears of a minority is pretty f@cking disgusting. |
I see. So Jeremy Corbyn was the real victim in all of this, and not the Jewish Labour members who were found by the EHRC to have been illegally harassed & discriminated against.
Thanks for clearing that ne up for us all Koonters.
I really don't know why we went to expense of a Statutory investigation when they could have just let you rule on it all along. | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 11:27 - May 10 with 720 views | Darth_Koont |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 11:23 - May 10 by GlasgowBlue |
I see. So Jeremy Corbyn was the real victim in all of this, and not the Jewish Labour members who were found by the EHRC to have been illegally harassed & discriminated against.
Thanks for clearing that ne up for us all Koonters.
I really don't know why we went to expense of a Statutory investigation when they could have just let you rule on it all along. |
Yes, that’s exactly what I said.
Stop being a smeary twerp. | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 11:43 - May 10 with 698 views | Ryorry |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 09:59 - May 10 by Churchman |
18 months ago you had a point. Countries not contributing the US being mugged off by Europe. Russia, Germany, Italy, France all best mates. Arm in arm forever. U.K. dismantling what was left of its military, cheap gas and trade, especially with the tories Brexit suicide, was our way forward if you can call it that. Roubles bags, money laundering, sunny uplands.
Back to now, there hasn’t been a greater need for NATO since USSR collapsed. It needs to be properly supported and countries like Germany need to start contributing. Without NATO Putin will rebuild the USSR. Why shouldn’t he? Might is right and you don’t even need to give a reason why. Just take what you want.
If Ukraine had been a NATO member (blocked by France and Germany through fear), do you think Putin would have attacked it? I don’t. No wonder countries like Finland and Sweden are changing their minds. It’s the only protection they potentially have. [Post edited 10 May 2022 10:55]
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Great post 👠| |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 17:10 - May 10 with 592 views | solemio |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 14:11 - May 9 by Ryorry |
He only became human after being ousted as an MP though. |
No, he was one of only 2 or 3 Ministers who occasionally stood up to Thatcher. | | | |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 17:43 - May 10 with 570 views | Keno |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 17:10 - May 10 by solemio |
No, he was one of only 2 or 3 Ministers who occasionally stood up to Thatcher. |
The words Geoffrey Howe spring to mind | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 19:36 - May 10 with 539 views | Ryorry |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 17:10 - May 10 by solemio |
No, he was one of only 2 or 3 Ministers who occasionally stood up to Thatcher. |
That alone doesn't make him a good guy I'm afraid - see what Badger wrote.
And his manner towards us mere mortals when he was in power was awful too iirc - sneering & snootily looking down his nose at us. I cheered at the aghast look on his face when the shock result that he'd been voted out by that young geezer Twigg was announced on 02/05/1997. What a great day that was, such jubilation, an end to 18 years of Tory cr@p. The weather was lovely & I've rarely been so happy. | |
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| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 22:16 - May 10 with 491 views | Radlett_blue |
| "Best Prime Ministers we never had" on 14:11 - May 9 by Ryorry |
He only became human after being ousted as an MP though. |
Indeed, Portillo's Damascene conversion from standard bearer of the Tory right to a compassionate, caring one nation Tory didn't convince me one iota. He wears some nice gear on his TV programmes, though. | |
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