| Further to my thoughts that... 08:58 - May 16 with 2730 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
....statues should become changing, dynamic parts of the urban environment....
They should definitely keep the crane and noose in place. Skateboarding anyone? |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:11 - May 16 with 2029 views | Steve_M |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:18 - May 16 with 1986 views | Ftnfwest |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:11 - May 16 by Steve_M |
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mind you its still more like her than NUFC's sir bob statue is like him. Looks like Arthur Cox |  | | |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:37 - May 16 with 1964 views | SouperJim |
Just read they've put a CCTV camera on a pole next to it. Maybe it's just me, but if you need CCTV next to a statue to deter potential vandals, you probably shouldn't errect a statue in memorial of that person... |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:22 - May 16 with 1873 views | Zapers |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:37 - May 16 by SouperJim |
Just read they've put a CCTV camera on a pole next to it. Maybe it's just me, but if you need CCTV next to a statue to deter potential vandals, you probably shouldn't errect a statue in memorial of that person... |
So you let the few idiots win? |  | | |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:24 - May 16 with 1864 views | Steve_M |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:22 - May 16 by Zapers |
So you let the few idiots win? |
They already got their statue. | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:25 - May 16 with 1861 views | STYG |
What's really depressing is that somewhere, at some time, we are going to see a statue of Boris pop up.
Whether we like it or not, he's now a part of our history (a depressing one nonetheless), but someone rich enough to donate the funds for a statue is going to be a big fan of his. In fact it's probably Boris' decisions that led that friend to have the extra funds for the statue.
Now that's gonna need some serious CCTV. | | | |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:37 - May 16 with 1836 views | MattinLondon |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:37 - May 16 by SouperJim |
Just read they've put a CCTV camera on a pole next to it. Maybe it's just me, but if you need CCTV next to a statue to deter potential vandals, you probably shouldn't errect a statue in memorial of that person... |
Statues of politicians tend to be divisive - even Churchill, who most consider to be a great wartime leader is considered by others to be a white supremacist. Like it or not she is part of that towns heritage but I’m not sure if erecting a statue in her memory was the right decision.
Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy. Personally I think that if people are intrigued by her then that exhibition would be the best place to learn about her life rather than glazing up at a piece of metal. [Post edited 16 May 2022 10:44]
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:43 - May 16 with 1803 views | footers |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:37 - May 16 by MattinLondon |
Statues of politicians tend to be divisive - even Churchill, who most consider to be a great wartime leader is considered by others to be a white supremacist. Like it or not she is part of that towns heritage but I’m not sure if erecting a statue in her memory was the right decision.
Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy. Personally I think that if people are intrigued by her then that exhibition would be the best place to learn about her life rather than glazing up at a piece of metal. [Post edited 16 May 2022 10:44]
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"Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy."
I take it it's not free entry... |  |
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| Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 10:46 - May 16 with 1799 views | unstableblue |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:37 - May 16 by SouperJim |
Just read they've put a CCTV camera on a pole next to it. Maybe it's just me, but if you need CCTV next to a statue to deter potential vandals, you probably shouldn't errect a statue in memorial of that person... |
There were lots of classic 'Mail' indignation on here around the national anthem booing from Liverpool fans at Wembley. I don't condone it as a poor girl had to sing it, and its not in the spirit of the day. But I understand it. I personally dislike the anthem and I'm from the South East - only the third verse has anything that describes an aspiration for our nation. None of it is about us as a people, it's just a homage to a bunch of sloanes, although I do respect the service our Queen has given. Funding the likes of Edward and Andrew is pretty disgraceful.
Back to my main point, and the Thatcher statue, and her legacy, and Merseyside response to 'establishment' figures and press. The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside. The 'managed decline' strategy that Thatcher and some of her cabinet supported was poor indeed. A South East centric and service industry sector strategy. Thatcher, The Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph painted scousers in a certain light, and it spiralled. It led then to other poor governance of that region, and ultimately responses to Hillsborough. In some ways positives came as in that Merseyside disconnected with The Sun, they saw the lies that the rag perpetrated on many fronts. Its given them a different culture. They voted Remain en masse... not sucked into the Brussels hating mode of the Tory backbenchers and media. The big lie.
But to end my missive, I'd like to say that Conservatives can be positive, when they are centrist, Heseltine pushed against 'managed decline' approach and went up there rolled his sleeves up, became Minister for Merseyside, and helped in part to drive a transformation of the city that lasts to today. He was given 'Freedom of the City' by the Labour Council as a result. A superb non-partisan gesture - the antithesis of the LEFT and RIGHT politics that has destroyed the US, and we are on a crash course as the BBC and Channel 4 are eroded. For me the greatest 'Brexit Dividend' has been the cabinet of Tories we have ended up with... they are very right, very Boris, not centrist... leavers
The Mail and The Sun, and Express and in part Telegraph have so much to answer for... they need to be dismantled for what they have done to our politics and society - yet you feel they are not the focus.... sighs!
God Save the Queen Lyrics:
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!
Not in this land alone,
But be God’s mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world o’er.
From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O’er her thine arm extend,
For Britain’s sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign!
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen! |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:51 - May 16 with 1776 views | STYG |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:43 - May 16 by footers |
"Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy."
I take it it's not free entry... |
They allow you to buy tickets for adults and OAP's but miners aren't welcome. | | | |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:52 - May 16 with 1764 views | MattinLondon |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:43 - May 16 by footers |
"Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy."
I take it it's not free entry... |
Ticketing is based on a Thatcher economics. The rich can buy their tickets at a very cheap rate - almost free. In turn, they will sell it to the poor at a heavily inflated price. To make this happen, the local press will run campaigns stating that if you’re a true patriot you will have to go…and on page 3 a local Tory councillor will get her tits and arse out. | | | |
| Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 11:23 - May 16 with 1685 views | MattinLondon |
| Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 10:46 - May 16 by unstableblue |
There were lots of classic 'Mail' indignation on here around the national anthem booing from Liverpool fans at Wembley. I don't condone it as a poor girl had to sing it, and its not in the spirit of the day. But I understand it. I personally dislike the anthem and I'm from the South East - only the third verse has anything that describes an aspiration for our nation. None of it is about us as a people, it's just a homage to a bunch of sloanes, although I do respect the service our Queen has given. Funding the likes of Edward and Andrew is pretty disgraceful.
Back to my main point, and the Thatcher statue, and her legacy, and Merseyside response to 'establishment' figures and press. The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside. The 'managed decline' strategy that Thatcher and some of her cabinet supported was poor indeed. A South East centric and service industry sector strategy. Thatcher, The Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph painted scousers in a certain light, and it spiralled. It led then to other poor governance of that region, and ultimately responses to Hillsborough. In some ways positives came as in that Merseyside disconnected with The Sun, they saw the lies that the rag perpetrated on many fronts. Its given them a different culture. They voted Remain en masse... not sucked into the Brussels hating mode of the Tory backbenchers and media. The big lie.
But to end my missive, I'd like to say that Conservatives can be positive, when they are centrist, Heseltine pushed against 'managed decline' approach and went up there rolled his sleeves up, became Minister for Merseyside, and helped in part to drive a transformation of the city that lasts to today. He was given 'Freedom of the City' by the Labour Council as a result. A superb non-partisan gesture - the antithesis of the LEFT and RIGHT politics that has destroyed the US, and we are on a crash course as the BBC and Channel 4 are eroded. For me the greatest 'Brexit Dividend' has been the cabinet of Tories we have ended up with... they are very right, very Boris, not centrist... leavers
The Mail and The Sun, and Express and in part Telegraph have so much to answer for... they need to be dismantled for what they have done to our politics and society - yet you feel they are not the focus.... sighs!
God Save the Queen Lyrics:
God save our gracious Queen,
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!
Not in this land alone,
But be God’s mercies known,
From shore to shore!
Lord make the nations see,
That men should brothers be,
And form one family,
The wide world o’er.
From every latent foe,
From the assassins blow,
God save the Queen!
O’er her thine arm extend,
For Britain’s sake defend,
Our mother, prince, and friend,
God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign!
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen! |
What a terrible song. | | | |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 12:00 - May 16 with 1627 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 10:51 - May 16 by STYG |
They allow you to buy tickets for adults and OAP's but miners aren't welcome. |
I still maintain that Jeremy Corbyn’s greatest achievement was to get ex miners in places like Bolsover, who loathed and detested Thatcher, to brave the howling winds and pouring rain to vote Conservative on 12 December 2019. |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 12:46 - May 16 with 1536 views | Zx1988 |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 09:37 - May 16 by SouperJim |
Just read they've put a CCTV camera on a pole next to it. Maybe it's just me, but if you need CCTV next to a statue to deter potential vandals, you probably shouldn't errect a statue in memorial of that person... |
That sums it up perfectly, doesn't it?
Is it illegal to egg a statue, though?
I can't see that it would constitute criminal damage, as the egg residue would wash away, and A (A Juvenile) v R [1978] Crim LR 689 shows that spitting on an item of clothing wouldn't constitute criminal damage for the same reasons. | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 13:09 - May 16 with 1502 views | Darth_Koont |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 12:00 - May 16 by GlasgowBlue |
I still maintain that Jeremy Corbyn’s greatest achievement was to get ex miners in places like Bolsover, who loathed and detested Thatcher, to brave the howling winds and pouring rain to vote Conservative on 12 December 2019. |
No. It’s definitely that Corbyn is still living rent-free in the heads of hardcore establishment hacks like Andrew Neil. And still exposing the slimy untrustworthiness of politicians like Ashworth.
These people that lied, cheated and stole to deliver Boris and his cronies into power will never be able to escape that.
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 13:54 - May 16 with 1447 views | blueasfook |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 12:00 - May 16 by GlasgowBlue |
I still maintain that Jeremy Corbyn’s greatest achievement was to get ex miners in places like Bolsover, who loathed and detested Thatcher, to brave the howling winds and pouring rain to vote Conservative on 12 December 2019. |
Arf! Indeed.
Imagine being so detested by your traditional voter base that they'll go out and vote for a party that took away their livelihoods instead.
That's pretty astounding. |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:13 - May 16 with 1423 views | Darth_Koont |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 13:54 - May 16 by blueasfook |
Arf! Indeed.
Imagine being so detested by your traditional voter base that they'll go out and vote for a party that took away their livelihoods instead.
That's pretty astounding. |
Of course, the majority of that damage had already been done by Labour in the previous two decades. Chuck in Brexit and a second referendum and that’s that.
The Labour right have a lot to answer for. And a lot to learn but that shows no sign of happening any time soon. | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:16 - May 16 with 1409 views | blueasfook |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:13 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
Of course, the majority of that damage had already been done by Labour in the previous two decades. Chuck in Brexit and a second referendum and that’s that.
The Labour right have a lot to answer for. And a lot to learn but that shows no sign of happening any time soon. |
He he! Great denialism there.
Blame the "Labour Right" for the absolute mess Corbyn made | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:21 - May 16 with 1385 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:13 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
Of course, the majority of that damage had already been done by Labour in the previous two decades. Chuck in Brexit and a second referendum and that’s that.
The Labour right have a lot to answer for. And a lot to learn but that shows no sign of happening any time soon. |
‘The majority of the damage’
Labour still had double the share of votes as the Tories in the last election under New Labour in 2010, and indeed the following one in 2015. It was only in the subsequent elections under Corbyn that position changed dramatically, culminating in the Tories swinging from c12 points behind in 2017 (itself a massively reduced margin) to 12 points ahead in 2019
Why do you keep repeating these lies? |  |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:29 - May 16 with 1346 views | Darth_Koont |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:16 - May 16 by blueasfook |
He he! Great denialism there.
Blame the "Labour Right" for the absolute mess Corbyn made |
No. Just the data.
Miliband didn’t lose Scotland that was decades of sliding vote share and the final mail was Labour’s position on independence. Corbyn “lost” the red wall because of the same slippage and then a similar breaking point over Brexit. | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:32 - May 16 with 1334 views | Darth_Koont |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:21 - May 16 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
‘The majority of the damage’
Labour still had double the share of votes as the Tories in the last election under New Labour in 2010, and indeed the following one in 2015. It was only in the subsequent elections under Corbyn that position changed dramatically, culminating in the Tories swinging from c12 points behind in 2017 (itself a massively reduced margin) to 12 points ahead in 2019
Why do you keep repeating these lies? |
What lies? The vote was eroded already but Brexit did the damage in the end. Hence it wasn’t an issue and votes were recovered in 2017, effectively a non-Brexit election like 2015.
But keep pumping out your spin. | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:48 - May 16 with 1283 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:32 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
What lies? The vote was eroded already but Brexit did the damage in the end. Hence it wasn’t an issue and votes were recovered in 2017, effectively a non-Brexit election like 2015.
But keep pumping out your spin. |
In Bolsover the Labour lead was eroded in 2017 though, the idea that the majority of the damage occurred under New Labour is just a completely made up narrative | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:52 - May 16 with 1270 views | Darth_Koont |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:48 - May 16 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
In Bolsover the Labour lead was eroded in 2017 though, the idea that the majority of the damage occurred under New Labour is just a completely made up narrative |
Then you’re not paying much attention.
You must be similarly bemused where the 3.8 million UKIP voters went after 2015. In Bolsover and elsewhere. [Post edited 16 May 2022 14:53]
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:57 - May 16 with 1246 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:52 - May 16 by Darth_Koont |
Then you’re not paying much attention.
You must be similarly bemused where the 3.8 million UKIP voters went after 2015. In Bolsover and elsewhere. [Post edited 16 May 2022 14:53]
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Actually there were c9000 UKIP voters in Bolsover in 2015, and the Brexit Party polled 4k in 2019. However even if all 5000 of the rest voted Tory (that’s still less than the 6000 voters Labour lost during that period
But boooo New Labour | |
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| Further to my thoughts that... on 15:02 - May 16 with 1235 views | MattinLondon |
| Further to my thoughts that... on 14:48 - May 16 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
In Bolsover the Labour lead was eroded in 2017 though, the idea that the majority of the damage occurred under New Labour is just a completely made up narrative |
The Left of the Labour Party would much rather be in opposition than be in power under a more centralist Labour administration - quite bizarre really. You could say the same about the Tory right who were unelectable under IDS and Michael Howard.
Seems strange that Boris, who is a lot more incompetent and heartless than previous leaders, has been quite popular with the electorate. But I guess, never underestimate the stupidity of the population - say something silly in a posh accent and then underscore it in Latin and they seem to lap it up.
The assassination job done on Corbyn by the Tories was completely ruthless, relentless and completed knowing that their press mates would be able to sway it easily.
Personally, the last few years have left me believing that the only way to compact such a hatchet job is to legally ensure that newspapers (online and in print) have to print full-page apologies with an independent organisation providing the apology in order that tabloid journalists can spin it for themselves. | | | |
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