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....statues should become changing, dynamic parts of the urban environment.... They should definitely keep the crane and noose in place. Skateboarding anyone?
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Further to my thoughts that... on 14:29 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
No. Just the data.
Miliband didn’t lose Scotland that was decades of sliding vote share and the final mail was Labour’s position on independence. Corbyn “lost” the red wall because of the same slippage and then a similar breaking point over Brexit.
Ah and Scotland again now too, ‘decades of sliding vote share’:
In 1992, the last election prior to New Labour, Labour held 39% of the vote in Scotland; the last New Labour election in 2010 saw them win 42%, and still firmly the main party. That % has subsequently been slashed under Milliband and Corbyn - sitting at just over 18% in 2019 where Labour were 4th in terms of seats
Why do you keep repeating this lie?
Why do you keep repeating these lies?
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Actually there were c9000 UKIP voters in Bolsover in 2015, and the Brexit Party polled 4k in 2019. However even if all 5000 of the rest voted Tory (that’s still less than the 6000 voters Labour lost during that period
But boooo New Labour
Yes. And an extra boo for the Brexit lies and the Corbyn lies that sealed the deal in 2019.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Further to my thoughts that... on 15:28 - May 16 with 615 views
Further to my thoughts that... on 15:02 - May 16 by MattinLondon
The Left of the Labour Party would much rather be in opposition than be in power under a more centralist Labour administration - quite bizarre really. You could say the same about the Tory right who were unelectable under IDS and Michael Howard.
Seems strange that Boris, who is a lot more incompetent and heartless than previous leaders, has been quite popular with the electorate. But I guess, never underestimate the stupidity of the population - say something silly in a posh accent and then underscore it in Latin and they seem to lap it up.
The assassination job done on Corbyn by the Tories was completely ruthless, relentless and completed knowing that their press mates would be able to sway it easily.
Personally, the last few years have left me believing that the only way to compact such a hatchet job is to legally ensure that newspapers (online and in print) have to print full-page apologies with an independent organisation providing the apology in order that tabloid journalists can spin it for themselves.
Unfortunately, I don’t see the current Labour opposition as being in the centre. Dave Cameron-centre-right with a bit of anti-democratic authoritarianism thrown in for bad measure. And now just a centralised, donor-led party. Are the Tories worse? Probably. But we’re wasting time thinking Labour are an alternative that will address the bigger, more pressing issues affecting the UK.
So the Left shouldn’t give its support unconditionally if we’re serious about changing course as a country.
I do agree with you that the state of our media (and the resulting political debate and lying that’s all seen as part of the game) leaves a lot to be desired. That’s at the root of our problems as a democracy. But that’s similarly controlled by owners and lobbyists rather than a more democratic tool.
[Post edited 16 May 2022 15:35]
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Further to my thoughts that... on 15:34 - May 16 with 603 views
In 1992, the last election prior to New Labour, Labour held 39% of the vote in Scotland; the last New Labour election in 2010 saw them win 42%, and still firmly the main party. That % has subsequently been slashed under Milliband and Corbyn - sitting at just over 18% in 2019 where Labour were 4th in terms of seats
Why do you keep repeating this lie?
Why do you keep repeating these lies?
Fair enough. Sliding “Vote share” in the GE is incorrect. But the erosion of Labour support is accurate and was apparent through sliding vote share in the Scottish Parliament and European elections over the years.
Just like UKIP as a protest vote in England, it takes time for that to directly translate into a general election result but delivered in spades in 2015 (after the IndyRef for the SNP and UKIP angling for the Brexit referendum) and in 2019 (with the Get Brexit Done election).
Labour has been hollowed out by both of those. We can go round the houses pretending that it was Corbyn but that doesn’t add up with 2017’s result seeing millions of voters actually return.
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Further to my thoughts that... on 16:01 - May 16 with 582 views
Further to my thoughts that... on 15:34 - May 16 by Darth_Koont
Fair enough. Sliding “Vote share” in the GE is incorrect. But the erosion of Labour support is accurate and was apparent through sliding vote share in the Scottish Parliament and European elections over the years.
Just like UKIP as a protest vote in England, it takes time for that to directly translate into a general election result but delivered in spades in 2015 (after the IndyRef for the SNP and UKIP angling for the Brexit referendum) and in 2019 (with the Get Brexit Done election).
Labour has been hollowed out by both of those. We can go round the houses pretending that it was Corbyn but that doesn’t add up with 2017’s result seeing millions of voters actually return.
It wasn’t inaccurate, it was a lie as you’ve posted similar before and continue to do so despite it being repeatedly pointed out that it’s false. No doubt you’ll do the same again
A quick glance at the other elections you cite shows that to be false too, or misleading at best given the Scottish Parliament was only formed under New Labour (meaning no historical trajectory to look at). And still in both cases the vote remains in a similar ballpark throughout New Labour before crashing under subsequent administrations
The share in European elections is particularly enlightening, given it dropped a whole 3 points between 99 and 2014 before crashing from 25.9% to 9.3% under Corbyn in 2019
This data is readily available, so why do you keep posting blatant lies?
Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 10:46 - May 16 by unstableblue
There were lots of classic 'Mail' indignation on here around the national anthem booing from Liverpool fans at Wembley. I don't condone it as a poor girl had to sing it, and its not in the spirit of the day. But I understand it. I personally dislike the anthem and I'm from the South East - only the third verse has anything that describes an aspiration for our nation. None of it is about us as a people, it's just a homage to a bunch of sloanes, although I do respect the service our Queen has given. Funding the likes of Edward and Andrew is pretty disgraceful.
Back to my main point, and the Thatcher statue, and her legacy, and Merseyside response to 'establishment' figures and press. The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside. The 'managed decline' strategy that Thatcher and some of her cabinet supported was poor indeed. A South East centric and service industry sector strategy. Thatcher, The Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph painted scousers in a certain light, and it spiralled. It led then to other poor governance of that region, and ultimately responses to Hillsborough. In some ways positives came as in that Merseyside disconnected with The Sun, they saw the lies that the rag perpetrated on many fronts. Its given them a different culture. They voted Remain en masse... not sucked into the Brussels hating mode of the Tory backbenchers and media. The big lie.
But to end my missive, I'd like to say that Conservatives can be positive, when they are centrist, Heseltine pushed against 'managed decline' approach and went up there rolled his sleeves up, became Minister for Merseyside, and helped in part to drive a transformation of the city that lasts to today. He was given 'Freedom of the City' by the Labour Council as a result. A superb non-partisan gesture - the antithesis of the LEFT and RIGHT politics that has destroyed the US, and we are on a crash course as the BBC and Channel 4 are eroded. For me the greatest 'Brexit Dividend' has been the cabinet of Tories we have ended up with... they are very right, very Boris, not centrist... leavers
The Mail and The Sun, and Express and in part Telegraph have so much to answer for... they need to be dismantled for what they have done to our politics and society - yet you feel they are not the focus.... sighs!
God Save the Queen Lyrics:
God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen! Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise, Scatter our enemies, And make them fall! Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all!
Not in this land alone, But be God’s mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world o’er.
From every latent foe, From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O’er her thine arm extend, For Britain’s sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign! May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the Queen!
I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
It wasn’t inaccurate, it was a lie as you’ve posted similar before and continue to do so despite it being repeatedly pointed out that it’s false. No doubt you’ll do the same again
A quick glance at the other elections you cite shows that to be false too, or misleading at best given the Scottish Parliament was only formed under New Labour (meaning no historical trajectory to look at). And still in both cases the vote remains in a similar ballpark throughout New Labour before crashing under subsequent administrations
The share in European elections is particularly enlightening, given it dropped a whole 3 points between 99 and 2014 before crashing from 25.9% to 9.3% under Corbyn in 2019
This data is readily available, so why do you keep posting blatant lies?
I give up.
You’ve just got your blinkers on and are cherry picking to pretend that the SNP haven’t replaced Labour as the party of opposition. By votes and vote share over a longer period.
Do you really think that it just happened suddenly in 2015?
Pronouns: He/Him
0
Further to my thoughts that... on 17:59 - May 16 with 518 views
Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 10:46 - May 16 by unstableblue
There were lots of classic 'Mail' indignation on here around the national anthem booing from Liverpool fans at Wembley. I don't condone it as a poor girl had to sing it, and its not in the spirit of the day. But I understand it. I personally dislike the anthem and I'm from the South East - only the third verse has anything that describes an aspiration for our nation. None of it is about us as a people, it's just a homage to a bunch of sloanes, although I do respect the service our Queen has given. Funding the likes of Edward and Andrew is pretty disgraceful.
Back to my main point, and the Thatcher statue, and her legacy, and Merseyside response to 'establishment' figures and press. The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside. The 'managed decline' strategy that Thatcher and some of her cabinet supported was poor indeed. A South East centric and service industry sector strategy. Thatcher, The Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph painted scousers in a certain light, and it spiralled. It led then to other poor governance of that region, and ultimately responses to Hillsborough. In some ways positives came as in that Merseyside disconnected with The Sun, they saw the lies that the rag perpetrated on many fronts. Its given them a different culture. They voted Remain en masse... not sucked into the Brussels hating mode of the Tory backbenchers and media. The big lie.
But to end my missive, I'd like to say that Conservatives can be positive, when they are centrist, Heseltine pushed against 'managed decline' approach and went up there rolled his sleeves up, became Minister for Merseyside, and helped in part to drive a transformation of the city that lasts to today. He was given 'Freedom of the City' by the Labour Council as a result. A superb non-partisan gesture - the antithesis of the LEFT and RIGHT politics that has destroyed the US, and we are on a crash course as the BBC and Channel 4 are eroded. For me the greatest 'Brexit Dividend' has been the cabinet of Tories we have ended up with... they are very right, very Boris, not centrist... leavers
The Mail and The Sun, and Express and in part Telegraph have so much to answer for... they need to be dismantled for what they have done to our politics and society - yet you feel they are not the focus.... sighs!
God Save the Queen Lyrics:
God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen! Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise, Scatter our enemies, And make them fall! Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all!
Not in this land alone, But be God’s mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world o’er.
From every latent foe, From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O’er her thine arm extend, For Britain’s sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign! May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the Queen!
“The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside”
All of South Wales: “hold my beer”…
Vast swathes of the UK decimated. Not that things didn’t need a shake up at a time of modernisation, explosion of tech, opening up of global markets, etc. But the callous, tone deaf way it was handled is still unforgiven by many.
Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 19:36 - May 16 by Swansea_Blue
“The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside”
All of South Wales: “hold my beer”…
Vast swathes of the UK decimated. Not that things didn’t need a shake up at a time of modernisation, explosion of tech, opening up of global markets, etc. But the callous, tone deaf way it was handled is still unforgiven by many.
Good post btw ðŸ‘
Scotland and Northern Ireland want a word too.
I agree re: modernisation, explosion of tech, opening up of global markets etc that things were changing. But of course the UK went for financial markets and services (largely in the South East) as it's NATIONAL response.
Just amazingly short-sighted and destructive. Other post-industrial countries never even considered such a weak and centralised response, the effects of which have ripped through our politics and economy.
Pronouns: He/Him
1
Further to my thoughts that... on 23:02 - May 16 with 447 views
Further to my thoughts that... on 10:37 - May 16 by MattinLondon
Statues of politicians tend to be divisive - even Churchill, who most consider to be a great wartime leader is considered by others to be a white supremacist. Like it or not she is part of that towns heritage but I’m not sure if erecting a statue in her memory was the right decision.
Apparently, in the towns museum there is an exhibition that showcases her beliefs and legacy. Personally I think that if people are intrigued by her then that exhibition would be the best place to learn about her life rather than glazing up at a piece of metal.
[Post edited 16 May 2022 10:44]
Even Nelson did not escape ( needed two goes though! )
0
Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 23:27 - May 16 with 438 views
Heseltine and Thatcher's 'managed decline' of Merseyside on 10:46 - May 16 by unstableblue
There were lots of classic 'Mail' indignation on here around the national anthem booing from Liverpool fans at Wembley. I don't condone it as a poor girl had to sing it, and its not in the spirit of the day. But I understand it. I personally dislike the anthem and I'm from the South East - only the third verse has anything that describes an aspiration for our nation. None of it is about us as a people, it's just a homage to a bunch of sloanes, although I do respect the service our Queen has given. Funding the likes of Edward and Andrew is pretty disgraceful.
Back to my main point, and the Thatcher statue, and her legacy, and Merseyside response to 'establishment' figures and press. The Thatcher years were very very bad for the North and especially Merseyside. The 'managed decline' strategy that Thatcher and some of her cabinet supported was poor indeed. A South East centric and service industry sector strategy. Thatcher, The Mail, Express, Sun and Telegraph painted scousers in a certain light, and it spiralled. It led then to other poor governance of that region, and ultimately responses to Hillsborough. In some ways positives came as in that Merseyside disconnected with The Sun, they saw the lies that the rag perpetrated on many fronts. Its given them a different culture. They voted Remain en masse... not sucked into the Brussels hating mode of the Tory backbenchers and media. The big lie.
But to end my missive, I'd like to say that Conservatives can be positive, when they are centrist, Heseltine pushed against 'managed decline' approach and went up there rolled his sleeves up, became Minister for Merseyside, and helped in part to drive a transformation of the city that lasts to today. He was given 'Freedom of the City' by the Labour Council as a result. A superb non-partisan gesture - the antithesis of the LEFT and RIGHT politics that has destroyed the US, and we are on a crash course as the BBC and Channel 4 are eroded. For me the greatest 'Brexit Dividend' has been the cabinet of Tories we have ended up with... they are very right, very Boris, not centrist... leavers
The Mail and The Sun, and Express and in part Telegraph have so much to answer for... they need to be dismantled for what they have done to our politics and society - yet you feel they are not the focus.... sighs!
God Save the Queen Lyrics:
God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen! Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us, God save the Queen!
O Lord our God arise, Scatter our enemies, And make them fall! Confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks, On Thee our hopes we fix, God save us all!
Not in this land alone, But be God’s mercies known, From shore to shore! Lord make the nations see, That men should brothers be, And form one family, The wide world o’er.
From every latent foe, From the assassins blow, God save the Queen! O’er her thine arm extend, For Britain’s sake defend, Our mother, prince, and friend, God save the Queen!
Thy choicest gifts in store, On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign! May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause, To sing with heart and voice, God save the Queen!
What's happened to the verse about sorting out the Scots?
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