| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:10 - May 27 with 2514 views | Dubtractor |
|  |
|  |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:35 - May 27 with 2436 views | MattinLondon |
We got into this mess because a bunch of pricks wanted Brexit and then voted in a bunch of pricks to form a government. This is how we got to where we are currently. |  | | |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:44 - May 27 with 2407 views | BlueNomad |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:35 - May 27 by MattinLondon |
We got into this mess because a bunch of pricks wanted Brexit and then voted in a bunch of pricks to form a government. This is how we got to where we are currently. |
And yet we are called Remoaners and told to “get over it.”
Putin may be struggling to achieve his aims in Ukraine but he achieved them here. |  | | |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:45 - May 27 with 2401 views | MattinLondon |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:44 - May 27 by BlueNomad |
And yet we are called Remoaners and told to “get over it.”
Putin may be struggling to achieve his aims in Ukraine but he achieved them here. |
I’ve moved on…I’m now a rejoiner. | | | |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:56 - May 27 with 2359 views | monytowbray |
Yeah but HARRY10 just called someone a right winger and that's the REAL problem. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:00 - May 27 with 2352 views | monytowbray |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:44 - May 27 by BlueNomad |
And yet we are called Remoaners and told to “get over it.”
Putin may be struggling to achieve his aims in Ukraine but he achieved them here. |
Still makes me laugh that Foundations of Geopolitics is such a little known book in this country.
If an aggressive foreign nation accidentally winks in the direction of the opposition it's front page news with the headline TRAITORS. Yet an actual book written by an actual fascist on how a totalitarian state can actually take over the world that contains actual advice on how to actually destabilise the West which has actually happened? No biggy! [Post edited 27 May 2022 21:01]
| |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:06 - May 27 with 2333 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:00 - May 27 by monytowbray |
Still makes me laugh that Foundations of Geopolitics is such a little known book in this country.
If an aggressive foreign nation accidentally winks in the direction of the opposition it's front page news with the headline TRAITORS. Yet an actual book written by an actual fascist on how a totalitarian state can actually take over the world that contains actual advice on how to actually destabilise the West which has actually happened? No biggy! [Post edited 27 May 2022 21:01]
|
It sounds hysterical to talk about fascism and being a failed democracy, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest we’re not heading in both directions. People were laughing at the thought a few years ago. It doesn’t seem quite so funny now.
The lesson from the USA is that this can be stopped, despite the Government’s attempts to cement their power. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:07 - May 27 with 2328 views | NthQldITFC |
I have faith that there is enough group conscience even within the parliamentary Tory party and more importantly the grass roots local associations to say, "look enough is enough, we can't let this slide because it will undermine permanently the fabric of our nation". I hope so anyway.
If I had any friends or acquaintances in those local associations I wouldn't be berating them right now, I'd be reaching out to them in sympathy with what is being done to their party as well as to the country, and encouraging them to stand up for decency, even if their views of what is right aren't exactly the same as my own.
We are not the same as the US, and we we can still come together before we slide down the slippery slope into sh!tty oblivion. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:10 - May 27 with 2306 views | monytowbray |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:06 - May 27 by Swansea_Blue |
It sounds hysterical to talk about fascism and being a failed democracy, but I’ve seen nothing to suggest we’re not heading in both directions. People were laughing at the thought a few years ago. It doesn’t seem quite so funny now.
The lesson from the USA is that this can be stopped, despite the Government’s attempts to cement their power. |
I am still wondering where all the "it will never get THAT bad" crowd are. Seem quiet.
Today they've allowed transport police to carry tasers. Nothing remotely authoritarian that implies the police are an oppressive tool of the state and corporations in that news at all | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:13 - May 27 with 2293 views | monytowbray |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:07 - May 27 by NthQldITFC |
I have faith that there is enough group conscience even within the parliamentary Tory party and more importantly the grass roots local associations to say, "look enough is enough, we can't let this slide because it will undermine permanently the fabric of our nation". I hope so anyway.
If I had any friends or acquaintances in those local associations I wouldn't be berating them right now, I'd be reaching out to them in sympathy with what is being done to their party as well as to the country, and encouraging them to stand up for decency, even if their views of what is right aren't exactly the same as my own.
We are not the same as the US, and we we can still come together before we slide down the slippery slope into sh!tty oblivion. |
Problem is we are already well beyond the point we were told would never happen due to public backlash.
It's slow, it's gradual, and it's intentionally that way. In a weird way I think COVID has been somewhat a blessing, without it I think the Tories would be doing this with only shrugs from the public rather than emotional outrage. | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:16 - May 27 with 2283 views | NthQldITFC |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:13 - May 27 by monytowbray |
Problem is we are already well beyond the point we were told would never happen due to public backlash.
It's slow, it's gradual, and it's intentionally that way. In a weird way I think COVID has been somewhat a blessing, without it I think the Tories would be doing this with only shrugs from the public rather than emotional outrage. |
I very much hear you, but I'm going to retain my part of that little bit of hope, which might be enough to kindle some kind of conscientious change of course somewhere. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:24 - May 27 with 2242 views | monytowbray |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:16 - May 27 by NthQldITFC |
I very much hear you, but I'm going to retain my part of that little bit of hope, which might be enough to kindle some kind of conscientious change of course somewhere. |
You speak up and call it out, there are enough of us too, no doubt I have hope myself too. But we've got some bloody work to do! | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:32 - May 27 with 2237 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:13 - May 27 by monytowbray |
Problem is we are already well beyond the point we were told would never happen due to public backlash.
It's slow, it's gradual, and it's intentionally that way. In a weird way I think COVID has been somewhat a blessing, without it I think the Tories would be doing this with only shrugs from the public rather than emotional outrage. |
It does seem the covid personal tragedies were needed to cut through and make many people see them for what they are. I don’t think that’ll go away before the next GE either. If you lost a loved one without being allowed to say goodbye, while they had piss-ups to see off a colleague, you’re not going to be forgetting in a couple of years.
Many people didn’t lose loved ones though and don’t give a crap anyway, so I’m not sure what it’ll take to get through to them. Cost of living maybe? It needs that personal impact. Whether enough have turned against them we’ll have to wait and see. I hope so. I’d take any colour of government now as long as it was serious. | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 22:27 - May 27 with 2138 views | SomethingBlue |
These people will stop at nothing to stay in power - so naturally one wonders what it must take to get them out. It would take a dreamer to assume the next election will be run fairly. As a minimum some kind of mass civil disobedience will be required, it just remains to be seen if people are active enough and educated enough to understand it.
The thing lifelong Tories need to understand is that these people are *not* Conservatives. [Post edited 27 May 2022 22:28]
|  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 22:53 - May 27 with 2064 views | BlueBadger |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 22:27 - May 27 by SomethingBlue |
These people will stop at nothing to stay in power - so naturally one wonders what it must take to get them out. It would take a dreamer to assume the next election will be run fairly. As a minimum some kind of mass civil disobedience will be required, it just remains to be seen if people are active enough and educated enough to understand it.
The thing lifelong Tories need to understand is that these people are *not* Conservatives. [Post edited 27 May 2022 22:28]
|
They are. They're just saying the quiet parts out loud now. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 22:58 - May 27 with 2026 views | Melford |
I can see why Chris Morris and Armando Iannucci didn't do any more of Brass Eye of The Thick Of It, the sh*t that has been going on is beyond satire. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 02:18 - May 28 with 1877 views | Illinoisblue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 21:32 - May 27 by Swansea_Blue |
It does seem the covid personal tragedies were needed to cut through and make many people see them for what they are. I don’t think that’ll go away before the next GE either. If you lost a loved one without being allowed to say goodbye, while they had piss-ups to see off a colleague, you’re not going to be forgetting in a couple of years.
Many people didn’t lose loved ones though and don’t give a crap anyway, so I’m not sure what it’ll take to get through to them. Cost of living maybe? It needs that personal impact. Whether enough have turned against them we’ll have to wait and see. I hope so. I’d take any colour of government now as long as it was serious. |
If Labour have any hope of being serious genuine opposition, they should absolutely hammer that angle. “Johnson partied and lied while your loved ones died.” Just wall to wall coverage of personal tragic stories against a backdrop of a smirking Johnson. This stuff’s not even difficult. Just go for the kill. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 06:57 - May 28 with 1701 views | GlasgowBlue |
I’m confused about this new ministerial code because it’s been reported that the government have rewritten the rules to remove the need to resign. However, I’ve read the new ministerial code and it clearly states in Section 1.3 paragraph c…..
“It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister”
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac
Hasn’t this always been the case and there is no change? Or am reading this incorrectly?
Is this a case of Johnson distracting the country by causing a non row over the ministerial code to divert the debate about his actual wrong doing? His stratergy has always been get loads of muck out there so that it’s watered down.
I’m trying to find an older copy of the ministerial code to compare the two. [Post edited 28 May 2022 7:12]
|  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 07:16 - May 28 with 1657 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 06:57 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue |
I’m confused about this new ministerial code because it’s been reported that the government have rewritten the rules to remove the need to resign. However, I’ve read the new ministerial code and it clearly states in Section 1.3 paragraph c…..
“It is of paramount importance that Ministers give accurate and truthful information to Parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister”
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac
Hasn’t this always been the case and there is no change? Or am reading this incorrectly?
Is this a case of Johnson distracting the country by causing a non row over the ministerial code to divert the debate about his actual wrong doing? His stratergy has always been get loads of muck out there so that it’s watered down.
I’m trying to find an older copy of the ministerial code to compare the two. [Post edited 28 May 2022 7:12]
|
From the Independent report on the chnges:
"A new foreword to the code, penned by the prime minister, has removed previous references to the principles of “integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership” which should guide ministers’ conduct."
But you are correct that 1.3.c is extant.
And whilst an independent body can now investigate breaches of the code, the PM still has final say and has final say on whether the "independent" body can go public. |  |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 07:27 - May 28 with 1630 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 07:16 - May 28 by You_Bloo_Right |
From the Independent report on the chnges:
"A new foreword to the code, penned by the prime minister, has removed previous references to the principles of “integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership” which should guide ministers’ conduct."
But you are correct that 1.3.c is extant.
And whilst an independent body can now investigate breaches of the code, the PM still has final say and has final say on whether the "independent" body can go public. |
Yeah I get that the forward has been changed. Hence my suspicion that Johnson is trying to create a non row to move the conversation on from Partygate. Especially as a couple of more backbenchers had submitted letters to the Chair of the 1922 committee.
I don’t understand why it’s being reported that the ministerial code has been changed to remove the need to resign when it’s still in there? If I hadn’t see a journalist tweeting this I’d have believed the narrative being reported and wouldn’t have bothered checking.
Re your last para. Hiw did it work before. The last person I can remember having to resign for breaking the ministerial code was Patel. Before that I think it was Mandelson. Both were reported publicly.
We’ve had some experience of this up here when a committee found Sturgeon had broken the ministerial code but an independent inquiry cleared her but the report was heavily redacted. [Post edited 28 May 2022 7:35]
| |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:40 - May 28 with 1486 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 07:27 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Yeah I get that the forward has been changed. Hence my suspicion that Johnson is trying to create a non row to move the conversation on from Partygate. Especially as a couple of more backbenchers had submitted letters to the Chair of the 1922 committee.
I don’t understand why it’s being reported that the ministerial code has been changed to remove the need to resign when it’s still in there? If I hadn’t see a journalist tweeting this I’d have believed the narrative being reported and wouldn’t have bothered checking.
Re your last para. Hiw did it work before. The last person I can remember having to resign for breaking the ministerial code was Patel. Before that I think it was Mandelson. Both were reported publicly.
We’ve had some experience of this up here when a committee found Sturgeon had broken the ministerial code but an independent inquiry cleared her but the report was heavily redacted. [Post edited 28 May 2022 7:35]
|
I think how the code has only ever worked has been based on an acceptance by ministers that certain standards need to be adhered to. My own interpretation of the code previously was that ministers could be sanctioned (up to being expected to resign) if they don't adhere to those standards - deliberately lying to the house for me was just defined in the code as the worst thing a minister could do.
I don't see how the adjustment of the code, which after all was called for (but perhaps not in exactly this way!) by Lord Geidt, could be seen as an attempt to deflect from "Partygate" as most people seem to be seeing it - rightly or wrongly - as an attempt by Johnson to change the rules before he's hauled before the committee. | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:44 - May 28 with 1468 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:40 - May 28 by You_Bloo_Right |
I think how the code has only ever worked has been based on an acceptance by ministers that certain standards need to be adhered to. My own interpretation of the code previously was that ministers could be sanctioned (up to being expected to resign) if they don't adhere to those standards - deliberately lying to the house for me was just defined in the code as the worst thing a minister could do.
I don't see how the adjustment of the code, which after all was called for (but perhaps not in exactly this way!) by Lord Geidt, could be seen as an attempt to deflect from "Partygate" as most people seem to be seeing it - rightly or wrongly - as an attempt by Johnson to change the rules before he's hauled before the committee. |
I read somewhere, and I can’t find the exact quote, that Johnson has a chaos strategy which basically floods the media with muck and scandal, one after the other, so that we forget what we were supposed to be angry about. Or something like that. | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:50 - May 28 with 1465 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:44 - May 28 by GlasgowBlue |
I read somewhere, and I can’t find the exact quote, that Johnson has a chaos strategy which basically floods the media with muck and scandal, one after the other, so that we forget what we were supposed to be angry about. Or something like that. |
Plausible - to the extent that there is any strategy a chaotic one would seem to fit the evidence. | |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:30 - May 28 with 1402 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 09:50 - May 28 by You_Bloo_Right |
Plausible - to the extent that there is any strategy a chaotic one would seem to fit the evidence. |
And we are now all talking about part of the ministerial code being removed that hasn't been removed. So it's probably working.
Edit. This seems a fair summery of the ‘new” ministerial code.
[Post edited 28 May 2022 10:52]
| |
| |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 10:47 - May 28 with 1368 views | Radlett_blue |
| Our country sinks just a little bit further into the mire on 20:35 - May 27 by MattinLondon |
We got into this mess because a bunch of pricks wanted Brexit and then voted in a bunch of pricks to form a government. This is how we got to where we are currently. |
So just over half of the UK population are "pricks"?
A somewhat self-centred & undemocratic view of the country. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
