| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow 10:27 - Jun 20 with 6907 views | Basuco |
what brexit benefits would you miss most? (copied from twitter)
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 12:53 - Jun 21 with 902 views | braveblue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 11:25 - Jun 21 by Swansea_Blue |
'Getting the vaccines and boosters months early. Saved thousands of lives.' - whilst that happened, it wasn't because we'd left the EU (as discussed by others).
'Getting out of lockdown months early.' - Nothing to do with being out of the EU. Lockdowns are a national issue for EU countries.
Points based immigration system - we had one when we were in the EU (albeit it couldn't be applied to EU nationals). And then you have to look at whether barriers to entry are doing us any favours now.
Helping Ukraine without EU squabbles - again, we could do this in the EU. Sure we'd be part of the 'squabbles' but it's a national decision.
Going to Spain with absolutely no difference to entry - could do this in the EU. And there are differences for some people.
Direct trade deals with over 200 countries - we don't have trade deals with over 200 countries. We've signed about 38 deals with somewhere around 97 countries and the vast majority of these we had trade deals with when we were part of the EU. The only notable one I can think of that's new is Australia, and the EU are in discussions with them. |
Trade deals. Straight from Google. You didn’t notice it was as at December 2020. No pint in discussing. |  | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 12:59 - Jun 21 with 891 views | Icantbelieveyousaidt |
Yes I indeed did not print it all - for benefit of doubt here is the omitted piece. it does appear that most of the article that praises the UK comes from named sources - the 'bits' that are 'against' seem to come from unnamed diplomats or sources!
So you see there is nowt to help one differentiate between fact, fiction or opinion!!!
Unless of course one is so politically biased as to be rendered 'not advisable to listen to or communicate with!
Must go, grass to cut, wine to purchase (£6 a bottle), and just enjoying the weather. Enjoy the rest of Suffolk Day and The Longest Day...
Not everyone inside the government is so impressed. The prime minister has been fighting multiple domestic political battles, including over law-breaking lockdown parties in Downing Street and a cost of living crisis. Johnson now faces claims he's using Ukraine to draw attention away from his own woes.
Chaos and posturing
“The problem is that this government is so shambolic in most of what it does that the response to Ukraine isn’t credible,” said another government official. “If it had its together and then cracked down on Russia it would feel more effective. But since the rest of what it does is so chaotic, the response on Ukraine looks like posturing.”
When it comes to the view from Brussels, EU diplomats are defensive. One argued that the bloc has been discussing a reduction in trade barriers with Ukraine since before the war, leaving the U.K. to catch up. The 27 EU countries have a much higher volume of trade with Ukraine than the U.K. does, so even smaller liberalizations have bigger impacts.
"Johnson seems to spend a lot of time comparing himself with the EU, but not a lot of time checking his facts," the diplomat scoffed. Another quipped: “The wellbeing of the Ukrainian economy doesn’t depend on British tariffs.”
The second diplomat hammered the point home on the U.K.’s reluctance to open its doors to those fleeing the war: “In the area of refugees, for example, there’s nada.” And the European Commission said in an answer to questions from EU lawmakers: "While reforms carried out by third countries can serve as an inspiration for our policies, the EU develops its competitiveness by pursuing its own proactive agenda."
The one thing that isn't contested is that the Ukrainians have a lot of love for the British response, Brexit-fueled or not. Menon noted that outside the EU, the U.K. could well have ended up ignored in the crisis. "But we've seen the reaction of the Ukrainians themselves to the actions of the British government, and you can't just dismiss that," he said.
For Bate Toms, from the British-Ukrainian Chambers of Commerce, Brexit has allowed the U.K. to cut tariffs, speed weapons shipments to Ukraine and move faster on targeting Russian fossil fuels than the EU.
"Britain is now again in its historic role protecting Europe from conquest, freed from having to get along within the EU,” Toms said. "Historically, the Duke of Marlborough, the Duke of Wellington and Winston Churchill saved Europe from itself, and the U.K. has this role again.” | | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 13:17 - Jun 21 with 860 views | leitrimblue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 12:16 - Jun 21 by factual_blue |
Particularly for Londoners, who are used to culture. |
Obviously I miss yer pearly Kings and Queens  |  | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 13:23 - Jun 21 with 850 views | giant_stow |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 11:15 - Jun 21 by Lord_Lucan |
That’s true to an extent but that is what government is supposed to do and something that we have recently failed to do in other areas. The role of government is largely to pick the best man or women for the job and to do a good job.
Like many successes and failures some people try and re write history and when memory fades they attempt to put their argument down as fact.
If we had been part of EU we would have joined the EU vaccine procurement scheme, I think it might have been Hungary who tried to wriggle out of it down the line but it’s pretty clear we would have joined it.
I just tried to google an interview with Kate Bingham where she went into great detail about the above - but after a brief search I couldn’t find it and I haven’t got the time to fart around all of the day. I did though come across an article in the FT where she said this
I ask whether her team seriously considered working with the EU vaccine procurement scheme, which would have been possible last year before Brexit took effect. “The Commission was happy for us to join the European procurement but we would not have a seat at the table, we had to abandon all the work we had done to date, we could not speak either then or in the future to any potential vaccine companies that would conflict with what they might want to do, and they would tell us when we would get the vaccine,” Bingham says. “Being a Remainer, it wasn’t as if I came in with any strong views that we had to do it our own way,” she adds. “But, actually, that was not a very difficult decision.”
Another piece of “VC thinking” was “don’t penny-pinch.” “When we were negotiating, no vaccine company knew what it was going to cost to make their vaccines, so it was all being done with best efforts and best data at the time. If we’d gone in and said ‘you’re charging us too much’, then they’d have replied ‘it was lovely to know you’ and walked away. “We ended up with agreed prices per dose and an agreed schedule,” Bingham continues. “But it was all about ‘How do we get the vaccines quickly?’ rather than ‘Could we shave another 50p off each dose?’”
Here's another fairly balanced review in The Repubblica
https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/02/07/news/kate_bingham_interview_vaccine |
I'm not so sure we would have joined if we were still part of the EU personally. Even when we were in the EU, we had one foot out too and it was never a mandated thing to join their buying programme. Didn't Germany even break a little free at one point and start doing their own side deals on vaccines, or was that just a threat when it was going wrong for them?
Edit: looks like the Germans did buy their own: https://euobserver.com/health-and-society/150554 despite being part of the EU.
Edit 2: in fainress, that article doesn't say whether they went through with it - oops! I'll leave the first edit up to be honest!
[Post edited 21 Jun 2022 13:30]
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 13:53 - Jun 21 with 813 views | Churchman |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 13:23 - Jun 21 by giant_stow |
I'm not so sure we would have joined if we were still part of the EU personally. Even when we were in the EU, we had one foot out too and it was never a mandated thing to join their buying programme. Didn't Germany even break a little free at one point and start doing their own side deals on vaccines, or was that just a threat when it was going wrong for them?
Edit: looks like the Germans did buy their own: https://euobserver.com/health-and-society/150554 despite being part of the EU.
Edit 2: in fainress, that article doesn't say whether they went through with it - oops! I'll leave the first edit up to be honest!
[Post edited 21 Jun 2022 13:30]
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Yes, Germany did its own thing and then did a snow job on it, aided by the EU commission that I’ve no doubt were leaned on or at least reminded who the big dog in the room was.
https://www.politico.eu/article/germanys-coronavirus-vaccine-side-deal-at-odds-w
One of the arguments was that it was German/US Pfizer vaccine and they had first dibs. Maybe that was why some of those at the back of the queue secured vaccine from elsewhere (China or Russia). |  | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 13:59 - Jun 21 with 800 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 12:53 - Jun 21 by braveblue |
Trade deals. Straight from Google. You didn’t notice it was as at December 2020. No pint in discussing. |
What are you on about? |  |
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 14:28 - Jun 21 with 761 views | mylittletown |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 11:01 - Jun 21 by GeoffSentence |
Being able to get into Spain with no more difficulty than before isn't a benefit of brexit, it's just something it hasn't made worse. |
It is also not true. You have to queue up for a stamp in your passport. |  | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 15:31 - Jun 21 with 728 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 14:28 - Jun 21 by mylittletown |
It is also not true. You have to queue up for a stamp in your passport. |
But think how much better you'll feel queuing up knowing you've got a blue passport 
Is there no end to the winning? | |
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 15:32 - Jun 21 with 727 views | unbelievablue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 15:31 - Jun 21 by Swansea_Blue |
But think how much better you'll feel queuing up knowing you've got a blue passport
Is there no end to the winning? |
Blue passports were feasible the entire time. |  |
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 15:44 - Jun 21 with 700 views | mylittletown |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 15:31 - Jun 21 by Swansea_Blue |
But think how much better you'll feel queuing up knowing you've got a blue passport
Is there no end to the winning? |
Fortunately, I got a new burgundy passport in 2019, so I won't be a winner on that front for another 7 years. | | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 16:51 - Jun 21 with 655 views | WeWereZombies |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 14:28 - Jun 21 by mylittletown |
It is also not true. You have to queue up for a stamp in your passport. |
Is it not also the case that if you have a bolt hole en Espana you now have to apply for residency there? Madre de Dios!!! [Post edited 21 Jun 2022 17:03]
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 18:27 - Jun 21 with 622 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Slightly off topic but I’ve been in Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Interesting the mixed views in Croatia on the EU, whilst the funds for development of infrastructure and general investment are appreciated, freedom of movement has been a huge negative for them. A brain drain to (mainly Germany) has seen the brightest and best young talent leave. Thus they are left with an ageing and declining population and lack of entrepreneurship. Just thought I’d add this perspective to what is often largely a black and white discussion of EU membership. | | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 19:00 - Jun 21 with 600 views | Lord_Lucan |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 18:27 - Jun 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Slightly off topic but I’ve been in Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro. Interesting the mixed views in Croatia on the EU, whilst the funds for development of infrastructure and general investment are appreciated, freedom of movement has been a huge negative for them. A brain drain to (mainly Germany) has seen the brightest and best young talent leave. Thus they are left with an ageing and declining population and lack of entrepreneurship. Just thought I’d add this perspective to what is often largely a black and white discussion of EU membership. |
I meet a lot of EU business bods on my travels. I have yet to meet a German who doesn't like the EU, I've found The Italians to be about 50/50 and The Spanish to be largely against it. The Dutch tend to be massively pro EU and The Scandies a mixed bag.
I tend to avoid The French and Belgians. |  |
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 22:01 - Jun 21 with 532 views | braveblue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 14:28 - Jun 21 by mylittletown |
It is also not true. You have to queue up for a stamp in your passport. |
No you don’t. There last week | | | |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 22:31 - Jun 21 with 521 views | Swansea_Blue |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 22:01 - Jun 21 by braveblue |
No you don’t. There last week |
Edit - that was out of date info. We were having them stamped, as that was the only way we could prove compliance with the 90 day rule. That stopped last month as they’re now using an automated system. So yeah, no stamps any more. [Post edited 21 Jun 2022 22:39]
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| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 12:30 - Jun 22 with 439 views | GeoffSentence |
| If the UK were to rejoin the EU tomorrow on 22:01 - Jun 21 by braveblue |
No you don’t. There last week |
"it's not sh1tter than before,' is still not a benefit though. |  |
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