| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! 13:11 - Aug 9 with 5054 views | STYG |
It shouldn't need it's own threat but by the comments on here, social media and so on clearly this needs to be crystal clear.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/oct/01/richard-keogh-waking-up-paramed
- Keogh had missed his lift home but his teammate Tom Lawrence was in his Range Rover, keys in the ignition, ready to go. Did Keogh want to jump in?
“I hadn’t spent the evening with Tom,” Keogh says. “I had no reason to believe he was over the limit. Everyone was in there before me so I didn’t think: ‘Hang on a minute.’ It was just: ‘OK. I need to get home. Let’s go.’ The next thing I know I’m waking up and speaking to the paramedics.”
Keogh, a man going through a difficult time, who had had a couple of drinks, misses his lift, is offered one by a team mate who he didn't believe to be over the limit and woke up surrounded by paramedics.
He was not the driver.
He was not getting into a vehicle with someone he knew to be drunk.
He is not James Norwood.
He is not guilty of drink driving.
He's the victim of a drink driver, who suffered horrible injuries and was left for dead by his team mates. Yet he was sacked whilst the actual drink drivers were retained. He successfully took his employers to court.
Hopefully that can be the end of the ridiculous comments. I myself didn't know the background or whether he knowingly got into the car but I knew he wasn't the driver.
Ironically when someone suggested we go for Tom Lawrence before he moved to Rangers I don't recall anyone saying no on the basis he was the actual driver.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |  |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:53 - Aug 9 with 601 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:23 - Aug 9 by DanTheMan |
Yeah I must say it really doesn't sound likely that he didn't know. I suppose he might have somehow not spent any time with Lawrence, I just really don't understand how.
He made a big mistake, it cost him quite a lot. Makes me a bit uncomfortable but also seems to be basically the only mark on his record. We've all made mistakes in some shape or form.
Good defender and some good experience to have. |
I've been out on the lash in clubs and not known what the rest of the gang are up to. I'm amazed you and others haven't.
At the end of the day we only have his word, so why take the most negative approach? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| So for clarity.... on 15:55 - Aug 9 with 589 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| So for clarity.... on 15:47 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
He should have known better IF it is true that he knew Lawrence was over the limit. I’m saying you don’t know that, I don’t know that, no-one in the world other than him knows that so I don’t believe he should be judged and held accountable for something that no-one knows the accuracy of. |
Quite. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I'm vilifying him.... on 15:56 - Aug 9 with 588 views | Bloots |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:51 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
TWTD is full of people vilifying him in the last couple of hours. Including you. |
....he was the club captain.
It was a situation that he shouldn't have let develop and definitely shouldn't have got involved with.
It's a very poor example to set for the younger players. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Why do you keep using examples.... on 15:58 - Aug 9 with 582 views | Bloots |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:53 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've been out on the lash in clubs and not known what the rest of the gang are up to. I'm amazed you and others haven't.
At the end of the day we only have his word, so why take the most negative approach? |
....that are totally different to the situation in question?
Seems odd. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:58 - Aug 9 with 584 views | DanTheMan |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:53 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've been out on the lash in clubs and not known what the rest of the gang are up to. I'm amazed you and others haven't.
At the end of the day we only have his word, so why take the most negative approach? |
I don't know exactly what they are up to, but I can take a pretty damn good guess whether they've had more than one drink.
I'm not taking the most negative approach, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe. |  |
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| I fully suspect that.... on 15:59 - Aug 9 with 579 views | wrightsrightglove |
| I fully suspect that.... on 15:52 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
....he's not the only one who knows.
I expect that the handful of players he was in the pub all night with know too.
But, yes neither you nor I know, so we can only draw our own conclusions based on what we do know.
I don't believe him, based on the evidence known and my own experiences of being out on the piss with work colleagues, you do believe him based on what he said afterwards.
Fair enough. |
I’ve also been out on the piss plenty of times with work colleagues and plenty of times at the end of the night I wouldn’t have had a clue who had drunk what if anything at all, especially after I’ve had a few. I’ve not said that I believe him, I’ve said we have no idea what happened that night or what may or may not be true so why judge him based on stories in a paper? | | | |
| Quite. (n/t) on 15:59 - Aug 9 with 576 views | Bloots |
| It wasn't a "works Christmas do".... on 15:58 - Aug 9 by DanTheMan |
I don't know exactly what they are up to, but I can take a pretty damn good guess whether they've had more than one drink.
I'm not taking the most negative approach, I'm just saying I find it hard to believe. |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 16:00 - Aug 9 with 569 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 15:50 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
Unless you breathalyse every pilot who flies a plane that you get on then you can't possibly say Keogh knew he was drunk.
These aren't exaggerations I'm making, they are literal examples from this thread |
I haven't seen anyone in this thread say he should held up as a patron saint for behaviour the poor bloke.
I haven't seen anyone in this thread say he has to be lauded now he has signed for us.
I haven't seen anyone in this thread say if you aren't totally for him then you may as well go up the road and support Norwich.
Innocent until proven guilty, and that would go for your pilot analogy too. Just because you don't have proof your pilot's sober doesn't mean you should assume he's pissed! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I'm vilifying him.... on 16:04 - Aug 9 with 553 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I'm vilifying him.... on 15:56 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
....he was the club captain.
It was a situation that he shouldn't have let develop and definitely shouldn't have got involved with.
It's a very poor example to set for the younger players. |
It's grown men on a night out. Is the team captain meant to babysit them all? Jesus, can't be much fun being a football captain on a social if you're expected to look after everyone. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Why do you keep using examples.... on 16:05 - Aug 9 with 553 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Why do you keep using examples.... on 15:58 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
....that are totally different to the situation in question?
Seems odd. |
How is that a different situation? | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| I fully suspect that.... on 16:06 - Aug 9 with 546 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| I fully suspect that.... on 15:59 - Aug 9 by wrightsrightglove |
I’ve also been out on the piss plenty of times with work colleagues and plenty of times at the end of the night I wouldn’t have had a clue who had drunk what if anything at all, especially after I’ve had a few. I’ve not said that I believe him, I’ve said we have no idea what happened that night or what may or may not be true so why judge him based on stories in a paper? |
Again, quite! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Because they weren't.... on 16:10 - Aug 9 with 528 views | Bloots |
| Why do you keep using examples.... on 16:05 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
How is that a different situation? |
....in a club, they were in a small local pub.
There was a handful of them, sounds like only 5.
But I have to accept who I am dealing with here, and I know you will never move an inch on your opinion, no matter how absurd it is. So I'll leave it there. | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Because they weren't.... on 16:32 - Aug 9 with 501 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:10 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
....in a club, they were in a small local pub.
There was a handful of them, sounds like only 5.
But I have to accept who I am dealing with here, and I know you will never move an inch on your opinion, no matter how absurd it is. So I'll leave it there. |
Never seen you move on an opinion much either to be honest.
Do you know the pub in question?
Do you know how many rooms/offshoots/corridors it has?
Do you know how busy it was?
Do you know if Keogh and Laurence were best buds and likely to be hanging out closely or doing their own thing?
There's nothing absurd in my opinion that I don't know. I'm not really asserting anything, other than I like to give the benefit of the doubt when I don't have any evidence. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Because they weren't.... on 16:40 - Aug 9 with 479 views | itfcjoe |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:32 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Never seen you move on an opinion much either to be honest.
Do you know the pub in question?
Do you know how many rooms/offshoots/corridors it has?
Do you know how busy it was?
Do you know if Keogh and Laurence were best buds and likely to be hanging out closely or doing their own thing?
There's nothing absurd in my opinion that I don't know. I'm not really asserting anything, other than I like to give the benefit of the doubt when I don't have any evidence. |
Never change Dolly |  |
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| Because they weren't.... on 16:46 - Aug 9 with 441 views | Darth_Koont |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:40 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
Never change Dolly |
He’s right though.
And you’ve sh@t the bed on this one. |  |
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| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:48 - Aug 9 with 442 views | Bloots |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:32 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Never seen you move on an opinion much either to be honest.
Do you know the pub in question?
Do you know how many rooms/offshoots/corridors it has?
Do you know how busy it was?
Do you know if Keogh and Laurence were best buds and likely to be hanging out closely or doing their own thing?
There's nothing absurd in my opinion that I don't know. I'm not really asserting anything, other than I like to give the benefit of the doubt when I don't have any evidence. |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Because they weren't.... on 16:50 - Aug 9 with 428 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:40 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
Never change Dolly |
LOL. Can't answer the points - evade the points.
You've been caught with your pants down Joseph! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:51 - Aug 9 with 424 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:48 - Aug 9 by Bloots |
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Again, no answers just evasion. Pwned. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:56 - Aug 9 with 405 views | Funge |
| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:51 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Again, no answers just evasion. Pwned. |
As long as you're Right, nothing else really matters, Dollers. |  | | |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:57 - Aug 9 with 391 views | itfcjoe |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:50 - Aug 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
LOL. Can't answer the points - evade the points.
You've been caught with your pants down Joseph! |
I’ll let the readers of the thread judge that but thanks for your concern | |
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| Quite. (n/t) on 17:03 - Aug 9 with 372 views | Bloots |
| FFS, have a day off love. (n/t) on 16:56 - Aug 9 by Funge |
As long as you're Right, nothing else really matters, Dollers. |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 17:05 - Aug 9 with 362 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 13:45 - Aug 9 by Mullet |
I'm not a court of law so that proposition doesn't work either. But the idea he didn't notice how drunk Lawrence was is a serious error of judgement, he wasn't bundled in the boot at gunpoint he took a risk and got stung.
The bloke had already thrown up that night and both were 1.5-2x the limit when they came back and finally gave a test. It's impossible to suggest they weren't driving after a session, the very best you can say is Keogh was totally careless and unthinking.
People are allowed to think that wasn't the smartest without wanting a pound of flesh or go into bat for him. |
Could his judgement been possibly a little clouded by the fact he had a few sherry's himself. I think you are being a bit naive regarding lads nights out. I know when I go home drunk in a taxi I don't breathalyze the driver first. Richard was clearly foolish in hindsight but at the time he wanted to go home and was not aware of the danger.
Were Dodi and Lady Diana careless and unthinking when they got into the car with Henri Paul? |  | | |
| Because they weren't.... on 17:08 - Aug 9 with 349 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Because they weren't.... on 16:57 - Aug 9 by itfcjoe |
I’ll let the readers of the thread judge that but thanks for your concern |
I'll remind the readers that you and Bloots are dying on a hill of the words and honesty of Derby Fecking County.
Bring back Benters, all is forgiven. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 17:13 - Aug 9 with 317 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 17:05 - Aug 9 by Eireannach_gorm |
Could his judgement been possibly a little clouded by the fact he had a few sherry's himself. I think you are being a bit naive regarding lads nights out. I know when I go home drunk in a taxi I don't breathalyze the driver first. Richard was clearly foolish in hindsight but at the time he wanted to go home and was not aware of the danger.
Were Dodi and Lady Diana careless and unthinking when they got into the car with Henri Paul? |
More good points, but some on here have already decided he's a wrong 'un.
Let's not forget all this handwringing is for a bloke who was a passenger on the back seat of a car. Lawd knows how they'd react if he were actually guilty of anything.
The amount of Mother Theresas this club has is astonishing. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 17:16 - Aug 9 with 300 views | Mullet |
| Can we just clarify something for a few people please! on 17:05 - Aug 9 by Eireannach_gorm |
Could his judgement been possibly a little clouded by the fact he had a few sherry's himself. I think you are being a bit naive regarding lads nights out. I know when I go home drunk in a taxi I don't breathalyze the driver first. Richard was clearly foolish in hindsight but at the time he wanted to go home and was not aware of the danger.
Were Dodi and Lady Diana careless and unthinking when they got into the car with Henri Paul? |
That's exactly my point, and is not cause to absolve him. Especially given the Di comparison highlights that. they weren't at an all day piss up long after it ended with their driver. Nor is there a raft of conspiracy theories about Tom Lawrence/Keogh et al. either.
I'm slightly staggered by some of the ways this thread has gone in terms of bad faith and lengths to excuse Keogh as totally as possible. The idea he made a cock up is hardly controversial, nor that people aren't united on the severity likewise.
It's very odd that in one breath I'm being told after 30 seconds the car was smashed in, yet there's no way he could tell Lawrence might have been over the limit, despite all we know since. |  |
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