| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? 16:03 - Aug 22 with 5267 views | unstableblue |
Obviously Town were playing at a higher level in the Championship, there are players in that picture such as Skuse and Webster who were undoubted quality, Mick was getting us to over perform on his budget... but at what cost? entertainment, and attacking excitement were leaving Portman Road, much like the fans - pragmatism reigned.
I don't look back to the 16/17 season and think 'What. A. Team'. I think about leaving Portman Road being hugely underwhelmed. As did the 1000s who were no longer attending. Its funny how many of our fans look back on the Mick years with such rose tinted spectacles, play-off season aside.
We were the third lowest scorers in the league that season. Our crowds were 15k or 16k often.. we got low crowds even for Forest and QPR. Average was down 16,980 (akin to our current season ticket sales alone), down from 18,989 in the play-off season, and crashing to 16,272 the season that followed. We were out thought and outplayed technically throughout the season (see McKenna recent interview if you want an explanation of technical)
This season our average is 24,866!! There is a connection to players (Chaplin, Edmundson, Donacien, Burns, Morsy) and manager like I cannot remember - do you feel as connected to Knudsen as you do Leigh? And critically the football on display is exciting and entertaining. We have a modern manager, who communicates to us about games at another level.
This all becomes a mute point if we don't get promoted, and show quality in the Championship, but for me this feels like a team to be really proud of:
Rather than lauding the gripes of disgruntled former players and harking back to what was a poor time in the overall dark Evans years. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:09 - Aug 22 with 1074 views | jayessess |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 17:59 - Aug 22 by FrimleyBlue |
Well he ain't wrong. |
Cole Skuse was a very good defensive midfielder for two different Championship clubs across 12 seasons. He wasn't crap, ffs.
Loath to defend Jonas Knudsen who was never my favourite player but he also wasn't "crap". |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:10 - Aug 22 with 1048 views | FrimleyBlue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:09 - Aug 22 by jayessess |
Cole Skuse was a very good defensive midfielder for two different Championship clubs across 12 seasons. He wasn't crap, ffs.
Loath to defend Jonas Knudsen who was never my favourite player but he also wasn't "crap". |
Tbf I overlooked skuse. I liked him. The others tho... and knudsen was awful. But he's got his fans. Fair do's. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:14 - Aug 22 with 1053 views | OsborneOneNil |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 17:14 - Aug 22 by dominiciawful |
Vile kit. Dreadful season. |
Dull as you like. Painful to watch, in the main. |  | | |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:20 - Aug 22 with 1042 views | jayessess |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:04 - Aug 22 by FrimleyBlue |
I know it's great to see academy players involved.. but loans when done correctly for the right players are definitely better than the occasional game. This season will be brilliant for him. |
Interested to see how it goes under the new regime. As it stands it doesn't look like a successful EFL loan carries much weight in the current setup? | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:25 - Aug 22 with 1014 views | FrimleyBlue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:20 - Aug 22 by jayessess |
Interested to see how it goes under the new regime. As it stands it doesn't look like a successful EFL loan carries much weight in the current setup? |
I think it all depends who and where it takes place and how if the player trusts KM and his team with how they see his chosen path. | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:32 - Aug 22 with 1020 views | jayessess |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:25 - Aug 22 by FrimleyBlue |
I think it all depends who and where it takes place and how if the player trusts KM and his team with how they see his chosen path. |
We'll see. Post-takeover we've had 2 players go out and have very successful loan spells in the division below us, neither seem to have significantly advanced their case for first team football. | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:40 - Aug 22 with 982 views | FrimleyBlue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 18:32 - Aug 22 by jayessess |
We'll see. Post-takeover we've had 2 players go out and have very successful loan spells in the division below us, neither seem to have significantly advanced their case for first team football. |
1 we won't know the full truth about but seems he feels he's more advanced than we do. It's definitely a case of let's see how his career goes before we see it as a mistake or not.
The other showed in pre season he's still very raw and cost 2 goals specifically, another season of regular football will do him the world of good and hopefully iron out those problem areas. | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:10 - Aug 22 with 984 views | Illinoisblue |
Just some cheeky rascal behaviour from the Renegade Opinionman |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:31 - Aug 22 with 962 views | unstableblue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 16:26 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Our budget was probably the same to finish 11th in League 1 as was in those Championship years, so showed the sort of job that was being done.
I really like the current team, and feel like good guys off pitch etc - but that team were that and achieved far more.
A proportion of the fanbase got sick of that team, and love the current team - as evidenced by talk of POTY in the 20/21 (won't vote for any of these, no one deserves it) compared to 21/22 (great to have so many choices to vote for) in a season where budget went up massively and we accumulated one more point - even forgetting that that team up until Cook arrived were on the verge of the play offs and last years one never was.
I've liked most Ipswich teams in my life time, but we do need to wait for this lot to achieve something before lauding Walton as better than Bart, Morsy as our best captain since Holland, Edmundson as better than Berra etc. We look well on the way to doing something, but with this squad in this league it's a minimum requirement |
I think we all agree that this current team are playing at a lower level, and have achieved nothing yet… apart from bringing us some performances to truly enjoy and get excited about, which we are responding to with our feet
But my point was simple was that really an A Team to truly look back fondly upon? I certainly connect with the individual players int be same way I do Chaplin, Burns, Edmundson et al.
But parking that and to your budget point, Brentford and Preston performed and entertained more on a lower budget. And Brentford were on a trajectory where we were going backwards football wise.
But if we were an A Team, if players were connecting and exciting fans, then why were crowds diminishing so fast?!
Fans have different views, and I guess this is one I won’t ever understand. | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:37 - Aug 22 with 949 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I think it sounds a bit like I wouldn't bother following that Twitter if I were you if you disagree with their opinions so strongly.
Plenty of high quality stuff to follow without it. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:44 - Aug 22 with 921 views | Sharkey |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:31 - Aug 22 by unstableblue |
I think we all agree that this current team are playing at a lower level, and have achieved nothing yet… apart from bringing us some performances to truly enjoy and get excited about, which we are responding to with our feet
But my point was simple was that really an A Team to truly look back fondly upon? I certainly connect with the individual players int be same way I do Chaplin, Burns, Edmundson et al.
But parking that and to your budget point, Brentford and Preston performed and entertained more on a lower budget. And Brentford were on a trajectory where we were going backwards football wise.
But if we were an A Team, if players were connecting and exciting fans, then why were crowds diminishing so fast?!
Fans have different views, and I guess this is one I won’t ever understand. |
Maybe you feel more connected to these players because they're better 'marketed' on social media. This is not a jibe - I'm being serious, -- many clubs are getting much more sophisticated at promoting their players as a loveable bunch of individuals. Add two points or more on average to the mix, and crushes start to develop. |  | | |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:58 - Aug 22 with 900 views | unstableblue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:44 - Aug 22 by Sharkey |
Maybe you feel more connected to these players because they're better 'marketed' on social media. This is not a jibe - I'm being serious, -- many clubs are getting much more sophisticated at promoting their players as a loveable bunch of individuals. Add two points or more on average to the mix, and crushes start to develop. |
It’s a great point Sharkey, and something discussed as a new fan focussed documentary
Social media I believe is further increasing the passion and tribal nature of fans - the connection with the club | |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:06 - Aug 22 with 881 views | Steve_M |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:44 - Aug 22 by Sharkey |
Maybe you feel more connected to these players because they're better 'marketed' on social media. This is not a jibe - I'm being serious, -- many clubs are getting much more sophisticated at promoting their players as a loveable bunch of individuals. Add two points or more on average to the mix, and crushes start to develop. |
The relationship between fans and players in 14-15 was really strong, the whole Chambers swearing on TV thing but also scoring at the end of the minute of applause for a fan against Forest.
I think you’re probably right about social media but there’s also a recency bias in there too for many. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:23 - Aug 22 with 860 views | itfcjoe |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 19:31 - Aug 22 by unstableblue |
I think we all agree that this current team are playing at a lower level, and have achieved nothing yet… apart from bringing us some performances to truly enjoy and get excited about, which we are responding to with our feet
But my point was simple was that really an A Team to truly look back fondly upon? I certainly connect with the individual players int be same way I do Chaplin, Burns, Edmundson et al.
But parking that and to your budget point, Brentford and Preston performed and entertained more on a lower budget. And Brentford were on a trajectory where we were going backwards football wise.
But if we were an A Team, if players were connecting and exciting fans, then why were crowds diminishing so fast?!
Fans have different views, and I guess this is one I won’t ever understand. |
Brentford had similar, and then bigger budgets than us, due to their player trading which we never saw reinvested in fees but just covering running costs of clubs.
We were a funny team in that run in the Championship under Mick, we would often start seasons well - play some enjoyable to watch football - 2014/15 and 2017/18 the most notable in that regard.
But when things didn't go our way by around mid point of season, and most notably in 2016/17, if there was ever a hint of getting dragged towards bottom of table it was very much every points a prisoner and make sure we did enough not to get close to relegation and that is what happened.
Often these downturns were injury related - McGoldrick usually who made us a totally different team, but also Fraser in 15/16, Huws and Adeyemi in 16/17 then onwards but guess that is the game if signing players that are only available due to injury histories - as Oxford are finding out this season under Karl Robinson.
2018/19 showed why Mick took the approach to fend off any relegation worries because with our budget a bad season was going down, not it being a bit boring to watch and finishing 17th, that was relaistically a par season.
I think people have short memories as to what came before Mick, who was the last player to make 100 appearances before he joined? Genuinely no idea - we actually got a core of good pros, and good people who embraced the club and community and likes of CHambers, Skuse, Berra, Smith, Bart, Gerken, McGoldrick, Murphy, Sears all racked up lots of games and were good representatives of club and town.
The current lot look like they are on their way to being that - but it has to be remembered that it's easier to play nice football when having a budget and spending money that 22 clubs in the league can only dream of. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:30 - Aug 22 with 844 views | Mullet |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:23 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Brentford had similar, and then bigger budgets than us, due to their player trading which we never saw reinvested in fees but just covering running costs of clubs.
We were a funny team in that run in the Championship under Mick, we would often start seasons well - play some enjoyable to watch football - 2014/15 and 2017/18 the most notable in that regard.
But when things didn't go our way by around mid point of season, and most notably in 2016/17, if there was ever a hint of getting dragged towards bottom of table it was very much every points a prisoner and make sure we did enough not to get close to relegation and that is what happened.
Often these downturns were injury related - McGoldrick usually who made us a totally different team, but also Fraser in 15/16, Huws and Adeyemi in 16/17 then onwards but guess that is the game if signing players that are only available due to injury histories - as Oxford are finding out this season under Karl Robinson.
2018/19 showed why Mick took the approach to fend off any relegation worries because with our budget a bad season was going down, not it being a bit boring to watch and finishing 17th, that was relaistically a par season.
I think people have short memories as to what came before Mick, who was the last player to make 100 appearances before he joined? Genuinely no idea - we actually got a core of good pros, and good people who embraced the club and community and likes of CHambers, Skuse, Berra, Smith, Bart, Gerken, McGoldrick, Murphy, Sears all racked up lots of games and were good representatives of club and town.
The current lot look like they are on their way to being that - but it has to be remembered that it's easier to play nice football when having a budget and spending money that 22 clubs in the league can only dream of. |
They have also been embarrassed at every turn since, whether it's relegation, the "piss the league" stuff, gelling or what other million things came from "we've got our club back".
Hence why they still do stuff like this.
Anyone suggesting Skuse/Knudsen were crap is a liar or isn't worth listening to. After 4 years of being big spending failures, comparing things favourably over that period is riddled with issues.
Just getting back to being a midtable Championship side has been miles off for so long post-Mick that it's pretty laughable all this stuff, even more so than it was when the toddler mentality was at its peak. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:47 - Aug 22 with 815 views | Churchman |
The great escape was great. Progress the following season, good. Scraping the play offs, great but disappointing in that we were the weakest team there. After that? Gravity took over and the year in year out decay was well set in.
2016/17? Really enjoyed the Newcastle game but little else. The opening 4-2 was a good result and a great hat trick, but Barnsley deserved a draw. On a cold day, the Forest home beating was as depressing as I can recall. We left at half time. My dad wasn’t feeling great on a cold day and quite frankly, I was losing the will to live with MMs tripe. It’s how it felt.
I get the point that’s trying to be made, but tbh, the football was awful, the state of the club awful, it was all awful and I fully get why people were losing interest. There was no future.
It’s different now and I think both football, mood, ownership, attendances, everything reflect that. It’s a football club again. A lower division? We’ve all worked that out but I think that should we escape this pitiful league, we will do a lot better than MMs Wolves at home are Real Madrid in disguise and a 0-0 is bus parade time approach. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 20:49]
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:53 - Aug 22 with 796 views | unstableblue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:23 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Brentford had similar, and then bigger budgets than us, due to their player trading which we never saw reinvested in fees but just covering running costs of clubs.
We were a funny team in that run in the Championship under Mick, we would often start seasons well - play some enjoyable to watch football - 2014/15 and 2017/18 the most notable in that regard.
But when things didn't go our way by around mid point of season, and most notably in 2016/17, if there was ever a hint of getting dragged towards bottom of table it was very much every points a prisoner and make sure we did enough not to get close to relegation and that is what happened.
Often these downturns were injury related - McGoldrick usually who made us a totally different team, but also Fraser in 15/16, Huws and Adeyemi in 16/17 then onwards but guess that is the game if signing players that are only available due to injury histories - as Oxford are finding out this season under Karl Robinson.
2018/19 showed why Mick took the approach to fend off any relegation worries because with our budget a bad season was going down, not it being a bit boring to watch and finishing 17th, that was relaistically a par season.
I think people have short memories as to what came before Mick, who was the last player to make 100 appearances before he joined? Genuinely no idea - we actually got a core of good pros, and good people who embraced the club and community and likes of CHambers, Skuse, Berra, Smith, Bart, Gerken, McGoldrick, Murphy, Sears all racked up lots of games and were good representatives of club and town.
The current lot look like they are on their way to being that - but it has to be remembered that it's easier to play nice football when having a budget and spending money that 22 clubs in the league can only dream of. |
Good post Joe.
I think you answer the original question, a pretty good team in 16/17, but a pragmatic one, that over that season due to injury and budget challenges played some poor football to watch. And drove fans away, as is crystal clear.
An A Team… no chance. | |
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| Yup - you’ve nailed it on 20:56 - Aug 22 with 792 views | unstableblue |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 20:47 - Aug 22 by Churchman |
The great escape was great. Progress the following season, good. Scraping the play offs, great but disappointing in that we were the weakest team there. After that? Gravity took over and the year in year out decay was well set in.
2016/17? Really enjoyed the Newcastle game but little else. The opening 4-2 was a good result and a great hat trick, but Barnsley deserved a draw. On a cold day, the Forest home beating was as depressing as I can recall. We left at half time. My dad wasn’t feeling great on a cold day and quite frankly, I was losing the will to live with MMs tripe. It’s how it felt.
I get the point that’s trying to be made, but tbh, the football was awful, the state of the club awful, it was all awful and I fully get why people were losing interest. There was no future.
It’s different now and I think both football, mood, ownership, attendances, everything reflect that. It’s a football club again. A lower division? We’ve all worked that out but I think that should we escape this pitiful league, we will do a lot better than MMs Wolves at home are Real Madrid in disguise and a 0-0 is bus parade time approach. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 20:49]
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Loads of people coming out of the woodwork trying to spin that season and justify it…. But the reality was exactly what you say:
“ get the point that’s trying to be made, but tbh, the football was awful, the state of the club awful, it was all awful and I fully get why people were losing interest. There was no future. ”
A Team…. No chance | |
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| Yup - you’ve nailed it on 21:09 - Aug 22 with 763 views | Churchman |
| Yup - you’ve nailed it on 20:56 - Aug 22 by unstableblue |
Loads of people coming out of the woodwork trying to spin that season and justify it…. But the reality was exactly what you say:
“ get the point that’s trying to be made, but tbh, the football was awful, the state of the club awful, it was all awful and I fully get why people were losing interest. There was no future. ”
A Team…. No chance |
I missed Forest second half and a couple of other games (Brighton and Reading as I was abroad). I know what I saw and there will be no spin from me.
There will be no spin from me about MM going either. I was overjoyed. Not at the personal abuse. That was disgusting, but him gone? Thank goodness was my feeling at the time. Relief. The fact he was replaced by yawningly inept chancers/mugs (until KM) cannot change that for me. [Post edited 22 Aug 2022 21:15]
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| RenegadeStatMan has redeemed himself…. on 00:28 - Aug 23 with 688 views | unstableblue |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 04:51 - Aug 23 with 647 views | judespiveyg |
They weren't a rubbish side, but they were something much worse than being rubbish: being boring. Definitely a less talented side than the 15/16 and 17/18. Bailed out by Bialkowski and Lawrence for sure.
Some players I liked. Hard not to like Freddie as he was a hell of a trier. Loved Mcgoldrick obvs like we all did. Quite liked Brett Pitman too and think that version of him would be very good in the current side. Tommy also cause he's one of our own innit.
As for the others, Knudsen and Grant Ward were both players who were good enough to not be complete crap but not good enough to put your finger on what exactly it was they did well, so both inspire feelings of pure ambivalence. Was never that keen on Berra's inability to pass a football but respected his pure defending. Skuse I disliked, fine bloke but for me midfielders have an obligation to make a non-zero attacking contribution.
Probably my least favourite season outside of 18/19. |  |
| I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 08:20 - Aug 23 with 579 views | Churchman |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 16:26 - Aug 22 by itfcjoe |
Our budget was probably the same to finish 11th in League 1 as was in those Championship years, so showed the sort of job that was being done.
I really like the current team, and feel like good guys off pitch etc - but that team were that and achieved far more.
A proportion of the fanbase got sick of that team, and love the current team - as evidenced by talk of POTY in the 20/21 (won't vote for any of these, no one deserves it) compared to 21/22 (great to have so many choices to vote for) in a season where budget went up massively and we accumulated one more point - even forgetting that that team up until Cook arrived were on the verge of the play offs and last years one never was.
I've liked most Ipswich teams in my life time, but we do need to wait for this lot to achieve something before lauding Walton as better than Bart, Morsy as our best captain since Holland, Edmundson as better than Berra etc. We look well on the way to doing something, but with this squad in this league it's a minimum requirement |
I think you make some interesting points, as always, particularly in the relationship of finance to achievement. There is little doubt MM defied gravity, but was his way they only way to do it?
If you look at what followed and preceded it you’d say yes, but then Keane, Jewell, Lambert, Hurst didn’t know a team from a teapot.
However, the oft forgotten Magilton achieved similar results to MM with a team far more attractive to watch with poor funding compared to many in the Championship. Jim was no manager of the year, but he got a raw deal here, not least due to Evans. No wonder he’s never been back.
Royle worked miracles with players being sold left right and centre, but JR was good. Both Royle’s and Magilton’s teams were far better to watch than Mick’s, but MM always had his own way of playing.
I loved the togetherness of his players 2012-2015. It was pragmatic but always difficult to watch. We played nicely in too few few games, but I thought when Bishop emerged we might have a football team developing. The key though to 2014/15 was Murphy who has the season of his life.
Overall, we somehow scrambled through seasons and for me apart from watching McGoldrick, it was one of the least enjoyable periods of watching us.
As for the verge of the play offs when Cook arrived, in points terms we were, not least due to a good start, but there was more chance of me making Pope than us going up that season.
Where I totally agree with you is that while we look promising, we do need to wait until this team has achieved something before lauding them too much. It’s looking promising though! [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 8:28]
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 08:30 - Aug 23 with 552 views | patrickswell |
Hell of a lot of introspection on this thread based on a tongue in cheek tweet. |  | | |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 08:42 - Aug 23 with 542 views | The_Romford_Blue |
Obviously Mick did a very good job, and obviously we were playing in a higher league... but there’s not a hope in hell I would rather be where we were in 2016 (that season we had official attendances in the 13,000s at times) than where we are now.
Give me league 1 playing good football in front of 25,000 a week and an ownership group who care over 13,000 in the league above playing sh*t football under the slow death of Marcus Evans. |  |
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| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 08:42 - Aug 23 with 540 views | Mullet |
| What do people make of this Tweet lauding our 2016 side?? on 08:20 - Aug 23 by Churchman |
I think you make some interesting points, as always, particularly in the relationship of finance to achievement. There is little doubt MM defied gravity, but was his way they only way to do it?
If you look at what followed and preceded it you’d say yes, but then Keane, Jewell, Lambert, Hurst didn’t know a team from a teapot.
However, the oft forgotten Magilton achieved similar results to MM with a team far more attractive to watch with poor funding compared to many in the Championship. Jim was no manager of the year, but he got a raw deal here, not least due to Evans. No wonder he’s never been back.
Royle worked miracles with players being sold left right and centre, but JR was good. Both Royle’s and Magilton’s teams were far better to watch than Mick’s, but MM always had his own way of playing.
I loved the togetherness of his players 2012-2015. It was pragmatic but always difficult to watch. We played nicely in too few few games, but I thought when Bishop emerged we might have a football team developing. The key though to 2014/15 was Murphy who has the season of his life.
Overall, we somehow scrambled through seasons and for me apart from watching McGoldrick, it was one of the least enjoyable periods of watching us.
As for the verge of the play offs when Cook arrived, in points terms we were, not least due to a good start, but there was more chance of me making Pope than us going up that season.
Where I totally agree with you is that while we look promising, we do need to wait until this team has achieved something before lauding them too much. It’s looking promising though! [Post edited 23 Aug 2022 8:28]
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The idea that Cook was never going to get us up just highlights what an awful job he did here then doesn't it? There was no excuse to not make the playoffs, let alone a realistic chance of promotion.
All this thread does is highlight how good Mick was and how the club imploded by removing him. It's so odd it took the removal of Evans, the massive investment and so many failures to really underline it and still be revised or ignored. The lack of revulsion at what came after and hypocrisy with it, speaks volumes doesn't it?
Much like the criticism of those superior players but not the current lot. It's almost like the puritanism wasn't sincere.
What makes this season so enjoyable is the potential of getting back up and then mounting another challenge so we're not here again. | |
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