| Immigration data 21:04 - Nov 1 with 11320 views | Mullet |
I appreciate it's one graph etc. but it does shed a light on the awful rhetoric and ignorance this shambolic government trade on doesn't it?
The "take back control" lie pivoting to this dehumanising 1984 level of shrieking from Braverman and her racist rent-a-gobs is depressing too. |  |
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| Immigration data on 07:54 - Nov 3 with 1933 views | chicoazul |
Hilarious thread lads. The best and worst of current TWTD liberal thinking right here. |  |
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| Immigration data on 08:41 - Nov 3 with 1899 views | noggin |
| Immigration data on 07:54 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Hilarious thread lads. The best and worst of current TWTD liberal thinking right here. |
What is the rate of "liberal thinking" on TWTD? |  |
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| Immigration data on 09:45 - Nov 3 with 1849 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 07:54 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Hilarious thread lads. The best and worst of current TWTD liberal thinking right here. |
As somebody who is pro immigration and has a real concern for refugees, not just from the moment they make their journey to the UK but how they are integrated into the community, supported with housing, language needs, job opportunity support, education etc, I’m slightly concerned about how this debate is being shut down.
I think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 and refugees who are fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution, and raising issues that should be open to discussion without them being accused of being gammon faced ‘kippers.
As per my previous post on this thread it is a fact that this government has been whipping up anti immigration hysteria for far too long. We’ve had Theresa May’s ‘Hostile Environment’ and Priti Patel’s ‘Nationality & Borders Bill’ (AKA the anti-refugee bill), the ‘Rwanda’ policy that is so enthusiastically embraced by the current Home Secretary.
The Government are making it harder for refugees to come to the UK, offering no safe routes. When they do arrive, they are put into cramped conditions and treated like criminals. The system is so slow that only 4% of people who arrived on small boats in 2021 have had their asylum claims processed this year. This leads to more overcrowding and inhumane conditions.
Meanwhile our politicians feed off this overcrowding to play on people’s fears that we are being swamped by an “invasion”. We see news reports of ‘brown skinned” people standing outside of hotels, talking in a foreign language. If they were white and talking English, we wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But again, it plays one people’s fears and prejudices.
Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection. That means the vast majority were found to be genuine refugees. If we had a functioning asylum process then the other 96% of people who arrived then 85% of them would now be fully functioning members of society, rather than being in overcrowded hotels or processing centres.
Every single refugee deserves our compassion and our support.
However, we also need to have a grown up discussion about economic migration. Particularly those young men of working age who are from Albania. A safe European country.
The figures I gave earlier of 85% of claims from people arriving in 2021 being granted protection were from a year when just 800 people from Albania arrived by boat into the UK. Many will be part of that 15% who were not granted asylum. The year before, 2020, just 50 people from Albania arrived in the UK on small boats. We still have 2 months of this year to go, and that figure is 12,000.
12,000 who are mostly young men of working age, who are not fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution.
We have a perfect storm. An immigration and asylum system that is not fit for purpose, that leaves people in limbo, existing (not living) in cramped and overcrowded conditions. A hostile and populist government that plays on the fears and prejudices of its people. And thousands of economic migrants thrown into the mix.
This is only going to hurt ‘genuine’ refugees and asylum seekers. It’s going to embolden the likes of Farage and his hate spewing rhetoric.
Shutting down the debate is basically doing Farage’s work for him. |  |
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| Immigration data on 10:00 - Nov 3 with 1858 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 09:45 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
As somebody who is pro immigration and has a real concern for refugees, not just from the moment they make their journey to the UK but how they are integrated into the community, supported with housing, language needs, job opportunity support, education etc, I’m slightly concerned about how this debate is being shut down.
I think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 and refugees who are fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution, and raising issues that should be open to discussion without them being accused of being gammon faced ‘kippers.
As per my previous post on this thread it is a fact that this government has been whipping up anti immigration hysteria for far too long. We’ve had Theresa May’s ‘Hostile Environment’ and Priti Patel’s ‘Nationality & Borders Bill’ (AKA the anti-refugee bill), the ‘Rwanda’ policy that is so enthusiastically embraced by the current Home Secretary.
The Government are making it harder for refugees to come to the UK, offering no safe routes. When they do arrive, they are put into cramped conditions and treated like criminals. The system is so slow that only 4% of people who arrived on small boats in 2021 have had their asylum claims processed this year. This leads to more overcrowding and inhumane conditions.
Meanwhile our politicians feed off this overcrowding to play on people’s fears that we are being swamped by an “invasion”. We see news reports of ‘brown skinned” people standing outside of hotels, talking in a foreign language. If they were white and talking English, we wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But again, it plays one people’s fears and prejudices.
Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection. That means the vast majority were found to be genuine refugees. If we had a functioning asylum process then the other 96% of people who arrived then 85% of them would now be fully functioning members of society, rather than being in overcrowded hotels or processing centres.
Every single refugee deserves our compassion and our support.
However, we also need to have a grown up discussion about economic migration. Particularly those young men of working age who are from Albania. A safe European country.
The figures I gave earlier of 85% of claims from people arriving in 2021 being granted protection were from a year when just 800 people from Albania arrived by boat into the UK. Many will be part of that 15% who were not granted asylum. The year before, 2020, just 50 people from Albania arrived in the UK on small boats. We still have 2 months of this year to go, and that figure is 12,000.
12,000 who are mostly young men of working age, who are not fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution.
We have a perfect storm. An immigration and asylum system that is not fit for purpose, that leaves people in limbo, existing (not living) in cramped and overcrowded conditions. A hostile and populist government that plays on the fears and prejudices of its people. And thousands of economic migrants thrown into the mix.
This is only going to hurt ‘genuine’ refugees and asylum seekers. It’s going to embolden the likes of Farage and his hate spewing rhetoric.
Shutting down the debate is basically doing Farage’s work for him. |
Well I largely agree, but many people do not want debate. They simply want to bask in their own righteousness while pointing fingers at people who may think even slightly differently. Plenty of examples ITT.
“You think the graph might be wrong or misrepresenting the data??? I think there’s a good chance you’re racist!”
The smooth brains on here never fail.
They simply don’t like debate, in part because they’re worried they might start to agree with someone they don’t like. They like to sneer shout gibber caper and laugh. Hey, so do I. But I don’t pretend that I’m helping.
Specifically on refugees I share your concerns but I for one am certainly not convinced the large scale entries of specially young Albanian men are refugees and ought to be treated as such. | |
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| As noted previously…. on 10:05 - Nov 3 with 1842 views | Bloots |
| Immigration data on 10:00 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Well I largely agree, but many people do not want debate. They simply want to bask in their own righteousness while pointing fingers at people who may think even slightly differently. Plenty of examples ITT.
“You think the graph might be wrong or misrepresenting the data??? I think there’s a good chance you’re racist!”
The smooth brains on here never fail.
They simply don’t like debate, in part because they’re worried they might start to agree with someone they don’t like. They like to sneer shout gibber caper and laugh. Hey, so do I. But I don’t pretend that I’m helping.
Specifically on refugees I share your concerns but I for one am certainly not convinced the large scale entries of specially young Albanian men are refugees and ought to be treated as such. |
….apart from 7 people that post on here, everyone in the world is racist. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Immigration data on 10:10 - Nov 3 with 1833 views | noggin |
| Immigration data on 10:00 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Well I largely agree, but many people do not want debate. They simply want to bask in their own righteousness while pointing fingers at people who may think even slightly differently. Plenty of examples ITT.
“You think the graph might be wrong or misrepresenting the data??? I think there’s a good chance you’re racist!”
The smooth brains on here never fail.
They simply don’t like debate, in part because they’re worried they might start to agree with someone they don’t like. They like to sneer shout gibber caper and laugh. Hey, so do I. But I don’t pretend that I’m helping.
Specifically on refugees I share your concerns but I for one am certainly not convinced the large scale entries of specially young Albanian men are refugees and ought to be treated as such. |
Out of interest, where do you get your evidence that Albanian migrants are not fleeing persecution? Risking one's savings and life, crossing The Channel in a rubber boat, seems pretty desperate for someone hoping for a room in a B&B and the lowest benefits in Western Europe. | |
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| Immigration data on 10:18 - Nov 3 with 1806 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 10:10 - Nov 3 by noggin |
Out of interest, where do you get your evidence that Albanian migrants are not fleeing persecution? Risking one's savings and life, crossing The Channel in a rubber boat, seems pretty desperate for someone hoping for a room in a B&B and the lowest benefits in Western Europe. |
Don't shoot the messenger....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/16/modern-slavery-law-biggest-looph
Mr Philp said the problems stemmed from the UK’s “incredibly naive” application of a Council of Europe treaty to combat modern slavery. While France and Germany had applied a tighter definition of slavery claims, Britain was more lax — meaning it had 10 times the annual 1,000 to 2,000 claims of the two EU countries. |  |
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| Immigration data on 11:04 - Nov 3 with 1764 views | chicoazul |
Woof! Savage.
But what’ll happen now is TWTD will attack not the messenger but the Telegraph or Philp. You’ve given them an open goal Banksy!!1!11 | |
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| Immigration data on 11:05 - Nov 3 with 1757 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 10:10 - Nov 3 by noggin |
Out of interest, where do you get your evidence that Albanian migrants are not fleeing persecution? Risking one's savings and life, crossing The Channel in a rubber boat, seems pretty desperate for someone hoping for a room in a B&B and the lowest benefits in Western Europe. |
You haven’t been to Albania, clearly. | |
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| Immigration data on 11:28 - Nov 3 with 1706 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 10:00 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Well I largely agree, but many people do not want debate. They simply want to bask in their own righteousness while pointing fingers at people who may think even slightly differently. Plenty of examples ITT.
“You think the graph might be wrong or misrepresenting the data??? I think there’s a good chance you’re racist!”
The smooth brains on here never fail.
They simply don’t like debate, in part because they’re worried they might start to agree with someone they don’t like. They like to sneer shout gibber caper and laugh. Hey, so do I. But I don’t pretend that I’m helping.
Specifically on refugees I share your concerns but I for one am certainly not convinced the large scale entries of specially young Albanian men are refugees and ought to be treated as such. |
"...but many people do not want debate. They simply want to bask in their own righteousness ..."
I think you've got a plank of wood in your eye there. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 11:29 - Nov 3 with 1713 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 11:04 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Woof! Savage.
But what’ll happen now is TWTD will attack not the messenger but the Telegraph or Philp. You’ve given them an open goal Banksy!!1!11 |
Not really.
Both you and GB seemed to have missed the debate.
Most of this thread has been about statistics and misuse/misunderstanding/misrepresentation of statistics.
On other threads people have been quite comfortable with the principle of an asylum system that is fit for purpose and can very quickly identify asylum seekers and economic migrants.
And that simple point seems to have gone over some peoples head.
An asylum system should be optimised to make life better for the 80+% of asylum seekers that get here, and the millions of people that are refugees.
Not built around a government failure that a few thousands try and exploit.
But in a debate that is about things like the use and presentation of facts to inform debate, you have brought a child’s rattle to the orchestra. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 11:41 - Nov 3 with 1684 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 11:29 - Nov 3 by eireblue |
Not really.
Both you and GB seemed to have missed the debate.
Most of this thread has been about statistics and misuse/misunderstanding/misrepresentation of statistics.
On other threads people have been quite comfortable with the principle of an asylum system that is fit for purpose and can very quickly identify asylum seekers and economic migrants.
And that simple point seems to have gone over some peoples head.
An asylum system should be optimised to make life better for the 80+% of asylum seekers that get here, and the millions of people that are refugees.
Not built around a government failure that a few thousands try and exploit.
But in a debate that is about things like the use and presentation of facts to inform debate, you have brought a child’s rattle to the orchestra. |
I haven't missed the debate. Hence my OP dealt in stats. My later reply was more a generalisation of how the debate is being shut down over a few threads on the subject. gtsb in particular is being portrayed as some frothing at the mouth gammon for simply raising the subject of economic migration. | |
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| Immigration data on 12:10 - Nov 3 with 1656 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 11:41 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't missed the debate. Hence my OP dealt in stats. My later reply was more a generalisation of how the debate is being shut down over a few threads on the subject. gtsb in particular is being portrayed as some frothing at the mouth gammon for simply raising the subject of economic migration. |
GTSB is not being portrayed as anything like that.
I think people are taking some of the things that GTSB is posting and debating.
E.g. There is a post about from a Telegraph article that uses the term “Exponential Increase..”
12,000 people is a very poor turnout at home games, not an invasion.
The only person that seems to be trying to restrict debate is yourself and Chico at the moment.
In my interactions with GTSB, I have taken the same circumstance, and replayed it another way.
E.g. why should asylum seekers be further manipulated, mistreated and demonised, because of a minority of people trying their luck.
Sometimes I do it with a bit of a humour.
That is not shutting down debate, that is a perfectly reasonable way to debate.
If you cannot challenge the basic premise of the things that someone may have used to form an opinion, then you don’t have a debate.
Majority of posts I have read are challenging basic premises and facts. | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:24 - Nov 3 with 1610 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 12:10 - Nov 3 by eireblue |
GTSB is not being portrayed as anything like that.
I think people are taking some of the things that GTSB is posting and debating.
E.g. There is a post about from a Telegraph article that uses the term “Exponential Increase..”
12,000 people is a very poor turnout at home games, not an invasion.
The only person that seems to be trying to restrict debate is yourself and Chico at the moment.
In my interactions with GTSB, I have taken the same circumstance, and replayed it another way.
E.g. why should asylum seekers be further manipulated, mistreated and demonised, because of a minority of people trying their luck.
Sometimes I do it with a bit of a humour.
That is not shutting down debate, that is a perfectly reasonable way to debate.
If you cannot challenge the basic premise of the things that someone may have used to form an opinion, then you don’t have a debate.
Majority of posts I have read are challenging basic premises and facts. |
Quite - I'd like to see GTSB provide a response to those who have addressed his comments with respectful replies. | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:28 - Nov 3 with 1612 views | lowhouseblue |
| Immigration data on 09:45 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
As somebody who is pro immigration and has a real concern for refugees, not just from the moment they make their journey to the UK but how they are integrated into the community, supported with housing, language needs, job opportunity support, education etc, I’m slightly concerned about how this debate is being shut down.
I think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 and refugees who are fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution, and raising issues that should be open to discussion without them being accused of being gammon faced ‘kippers.
As per my previous post on this thread it is a fact that this government has been whipping up anti immigration hysteria for far too long. We’ve had Theresa May’s ‘Hostile Environment’ and Priti Patel’s ‘Nationality & Borders Bill’ (AKA the anti-refugee bill), the ‘Rwanda’ policy that is so enthusiastically embraced by the current Home Secretary.
The Government are making it harder for refugees to come to the UK, offering no safe routes. When they do arrive, they are put into cramped conditions and treated like criminals. The system is so slow that only 4% of people who arrived on small boats in 2021 have had their asylum claims processed this year. This leads to more overcrowding and inhumane conditions.
Meanwhile our politicians feed off this overcrowding to play on people’s fears that we are being swamped by an “invasion”. We see news reports of ‘brown skinned” people standing outside of hotels, talking in a foreign language. If they were white and talking English, we wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But again, it plays one people’s fears and prejudices.
Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection. That means the vast majority were found to be genuine refugees. If we had a functioning asylum process then the other 96% of people who arrived then 85% of them would now be fully functioning members of society, rather than being in overcrowded hotels or processing centres.
Every single refugee deserves our compassion and our support.
However, we also need to have a grown up discussion about economic migration. Particularly those young men of working age who are from Albania. A safe European country.
The figures I gave earlier of 85% of claims from people arriving in 2021 being granted protection were from a year when just 800 people from Albania arrived by boat into the UK. Many will be part of that 15% who were not granted asylum. The year before, 2020, just 50 people from Albania arrived in the UK on small boats. We still have 2 months of this year to go, and that figure is 12,000.
12,000 who are mostly young men of working age, who are not fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution.
We have a perfect storm. An immigration and asylum system that is not fit for purpose, that leaves people in limbo, existing (not living) in cramped and overcrowded conditions. A hostile and populist government that plays on the fears and prejudices of its people. And thousands of economic migrants thrown into the mix.
This is only going to hurt ‘genuine’ refugees and asylum seekers. It’s going to embolden the likes of Farage and his hate spewing rhetoric.
Shutting down the debate is basically doing Farage’s work for him. |
the data here is not easy. you correctly quote the 2021 data:
"Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection. "
but the key phrase is 'that have been processed'. given the appallingly slow processes involved, this figure may be distorted by simpler cases being resolved more quickly. the oxford migration obervatory data covers a longer period with a greater proportion of cases having been processed and concluded by the date of data collection and it's a bit different:
"Taking into account appeals, 59% of asylum applications submitted in 2017 to 2019 inclusive are estimated to have received a grant of asylum-related protection by May 2021 — up from 44% at initial decision." |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Immigration data on 15:33 - Nov 3 with 1519 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 11:29 - Nov 3 by eireblue |
Not really.
Both you and GB seemed to have missed the debate.
Most of this thread has been about statistics and misuse/misunderstanding/misrepresentation of statistics.
On other threads people have been quite comfortable with the principle of an asylum system that is fit for purpose and can very quickly identify asylum seekers and economic migrants.
And that simple point seems to have gone over some peoples head.
An asylum system should be optimised to make life better for the 80+% of asylum seekers that get here, and the millions of people that are refugees.
Not built around a government failure that a few thousands try and exploit.
But in a debate that is about things like the use and presentation of facts to inform debate, you have brought a child’s rattle to the orchestra. |
Missed the debate = stop talking about what I don’t want you to talk about | |
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| Immigration data on 16:03 - Nov 3 with 1482 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 15:33 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Missed the debate = stop talking about what I don’t want you to talk about |
Don’t be soft lad, nobody has stopped anyone from debating this topic. | | | |
| Immigration data on 17:20 - Nov 3 with 1414 views | noggin |
| Immigration data on 12:24 - Nov 3 by XYZ |
Quite - I'd like to see GTSB provide a response to those who have addressed his comments with respectful replies. |
He won't, of course. | |
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| Immigration data on 17:28 - Nov 3 with 1400 views | jeera |
| Immigration data on 15:33 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
Missed the debate = stop talking about what I don’t want you to talk about |
You've almost worked yourself into a frenzy here.
You are the only person on this thread to have used insults.
Also the only one to have made accusations, as far as I've seen anyway.
Everyone else has been discussing the matter in hand, whereas you have shown no interest at all other than to do what you've accused others of and that's to play the man etc.
You really need to stop this nonsense. It's got out of hand. |  |
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| Immigration data on 17:34 - Nov 3 with 1390 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 16:03 - Nov 3 by eireblue |
Don’t be soft lad, nobody has stopped anyone from debating this topic. |
I know *you* can’t stop it, you just wish they would. | |
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| Immigration data on 17:35 - Nov 3 with 1388 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 17:28 - Nov 3 by jeera |
You've almost worked yourself into a frenzy here.
You are the only person on this thread to have used insults.
Also the only one to have made accusations, as far as I've seen anyway.
Everyone else has been discussing the matter in hand, whereas you have shown no interest at all other than to do what you've accused others of and that's to play the man etc.
You really need to stop this nonsense. It's got out of hand. |
Insults? | |
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| Immigration data on 17:42 - Nov 3 with 1370 views | gtsb1966 |
| Immigration data on 17:20 - Nov 3 by noggin |
He won't, of course. |
because I have nothing else to say. I've stated my views on the subject and stick by them. Too many people crossing our borders illegally who are not escaping persecution or war. They are my last words on the subject otherwise we just go round in circles. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 17:43 - Nov 3 with 1358 views | HARRY10 |
" think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 "
That they are Muslim just happens to be a coincidence ?
It is not about numbers either. Were that to be the case, then there would have been an outcry over the tens of thousands of Ukrainians.
There would be a recognition that over the past two years a million or more EU workers have left, so a few thousand coming in is no big deal/
Nope it is racism. Simple as that. And no weasel words to the contrary will suggest otherwise, as the above shows. | | | |
| Immigration data on 17:48 - Nov 3 with 1334 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 17:43 - Nov 3 by HARRY10 |
" think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 "
That they are Muslim just happens to be a coincidence ?
It is not about numbers either. Were that to be the case, then there would have been an outcry over the tens of thousands of Ukrainians.
There would be a recognition that over the past two years a million or more EU workers have left, so a few thousand coming in is no big deal/
Nope it is racism. Simple as that. And no weasel words to the contrary will suggest otherwise, as the above shows. |
Just who are you accusing of racism here Harry? Because gtsb and bansky certainly aren't.
Although the accusation is pretty ironic from a man who recently called a woman of colour an "uncle Tom" and said that she "wasn't comfortable being black" [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 17:58]
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