| Immigration data 21:04 - Nov 1 with 11325 views | Mullet |
I appreciate it's one graph etc. but it does shed a light on the awful rhetoric and ignorance this shambolic government trade on doesn't it?
The "take back control" lie pivoting to this dehumanising 1984 level of shrieking from Braverman and her racist rent-a-gobs is depressing too. |  |
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| Immigration data on 12:16 - Nov 2 with 1772 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 12:09 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The word 'rate' can just as easily be used in relation to absolute numbers as to proportions. |
Really?
Give us a couple of examples, please. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 12:18 - Nov 2 with 1766 views | noggin |
wellhungphil the silent racist. Come on Phil, show yourself. |  |
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| Immigration data on 12:33 - Nov 2 with 1747 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Immigration data on 21:17 - Nov 1 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Errr..
I'm not disagreeing with you about the rhetoric. But the headline for that graph says, "The UK has the lowest rates of asylum applications in Europe" and then the data sets are, "Asylum rates per 10,000 population"
That's not the same as number of asylum applications.
In 2021, The UK had 56,500 persons apply for asylum. Germany, France and Spain had more.next behind the UK was Italy with 45,000. Contrary to that graph, Cyprus has 10th most, with around 12,000.
But the language being used by govt. I agree is disgusting. Its just that graph doesn't paint a true picture. [Post edited 1 Nov 2022 21:18]
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By that logic Monaco suddenly having 10,000 people turn up claiming Asylum would be fine, because it would be less less UK.
Rates per head of population is the most sensible measure because it talks about proportionate strain on established infrastructure.
Of course the real issue with Asylum Seekers being a strain on Housing Services or the NHS is the criminal underfunding of the corrupt Tories austerity economics, which means that those Services don't have the capacity that they should have. | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:42 - Nov 2 with 1734 views | BlueBadger |
| Immigration data on 12:18 - Nov 2 by noggin |
wellhungphil the silent racist. Come on Phil, show yourself. |
Ah, Phil's duty DaveU today. I was wondering who it was. |  |
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| Immigration data on 12:56 - Nov 2 with 1726 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Immigration data on 21:08 - Nov 1 by StokieBlue |
That can't be right, certain posters on here told us that Albanians were overrunning the country.
It's almost like a few like to re-enforce their prejudices without actually checking the reality of the situation and then have a pile-on at others for pointing out the obvious deficiencies in their arguments.
The officer will be along shortly to put us straight.
SB |
Albanians over-running the country you say...
Yes, i know it's a spoof.
Sadly, the reality of Gullis is not too different
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| Immigration data on 13:11 - Nov 2 with 1703 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 12:16 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
Really?
Give us a couple of examples, please. |
The rate of people crossing the channel in unsafe boats is increasing.
I have increased my pay rate. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 13:13]
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| Immigration data on 13:14 - Nov 2 with 1696 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 13:11 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The rate of people crossing the channel in unsafe boats is increasing.
I have increased my pay rate. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 13:13]
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As in numbers per day?
Yep, that's a rate. Something divided by something else.
Edit: Pounds per hour?
Something divided by something else (again). [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 13:15]
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| Immigration data on 13:17 - Nov 2 with 1696 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
I was interested to read in the Guardian this morning that 12,000 of the 40,000 boat arrivals this year were Albanians and the increase may partly be explained by arrangements France and Germany have to rapidly repatriate them. | |
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| Immigration data on 13:24 - Nov 2 with 1673 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 13:14 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
As in numbers per day?
Yep, that's a rate. Something divided by something else.
Edit: Pounds per hour?
Something divided by something else (again). [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 13:15]
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Fair enough but it all equates to an increase in absolute numbers too. In regard to the graph in the op it is clear that the manner in which data is presented often depends on how it it best supports any underlying narratives being pursued. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:29 - Nov 2 with 1598 views | Mullet |
| Immigration data on 12:09 - Nov 2 by Cotty |
It DOES say that on the top of the graph. This thread is a sad indictment of our schools system... |
Am I wrong here? Did I miss something really obvious? I still don't get this | |
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| Immigration data on 21:38 - Nov 2 with 1575 views | StokieBlue |
| Immigration data on 21:29 - Nov 2 by Mullet |
Am I wrong here? Did I miss something really obvious? I still don't get this |
You were right, I wouldn't worry about it. Some really weird posting on this thread.
SB |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:47 - Nov 2 with 1548 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Immigration data on 12:09 - Nov 2 by Cotty |
It DOES say that on the top of the graph. This thread is a sad indictment of our schools system... |
A lack of scientific literacy is not entirely down to our education system. Although, I am sure one that was funded sufficiently would do a much better job and one where the curriculum was more relevant and practical would too. |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:51 - Nov 2 with 1534 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Immigration data on 12:16 - Nov 2 by XYZ |
Really?
Give us a couple of examples, please. |
My rate of travel was 10 miles.
My rate of pay is £25.
My rate of posting is 1 post.
My rate of exercise is twice.
The rate of refugees coming into the country is 25.
Oh, OK. Point proven yet?
I can't believe anyone can't see that the graph is entirely damning. France process more than twice as many applications per head of population than we do. It is disgusting on any measure. Even the raw figures of total applications show we are disgracefully short because we try to hide behind being a small island (compared with Cyprus?!) and the rhetoric of invasion. | |
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| Immigration data on 21:52 - Nov 2 with 1531 views | Mullet |
| Immigration data on 13:24 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Fair enough but it all equates to an increase in absolute numbers too. In regard to the graph in the op it is clear that the manner in which data is presented often depends on how it it best supports any underlying narratives being pursued. |
I'm not sure there was anything opaque about raw data or my description of the narrative being deconstructed from the government and right-wing pondlife in the media.
This is idea I have been somehow tricksy is really baffling in the face of what was pretty straightforward observations about the repeated failures of our government to "take back control" or responsibility. | |
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| Immigration data on 22:40 - Nov 2 with 1483 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 21:52 - Nov 2 by Mullet |
I'm not sure there was anything opaque about raw data or my description of the narrative being deconstructed from the government and right-wing pondlife in the media.
This is idea I have been somehow tricksy is really baffling in the face of what was pretty straightforward observations about the repeated failures of our government to "take back control" or responsibility. |
Facts, eh?
It's the facts with agendas that are the real problem. | | | |
| Immigration data on 22:58 - Nov 2 with 1467 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 21:52 - Nov 2 by Mullet |
I'm not sure there was anything opaque about raw data or my description of the narrative being deconstructed from the government and right-wing pondlife in the media.
This is idea I have been somehow tricksy is really baffling in the face of what was pretty straightforward observations about the repeated failures of our government to "take back control" or responsibility. |
Who said you have been tricksy?
Hey look fire away and present data as you like. I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers. It is probably also worth adding that according to Newsnight the recent Albanian migrants are not applying for asylum but using modern slavery legislation so won't feature in your quoted data.
The earlier link I posted also illustrated that France and Germany have a rapid repatriation agreement with Albania (part of the reason for the increase here)so I'm not sure if anyone is going to come out of this smelling of roses. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 22:59]
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| Immigration data on 23:07 - Nov 2 with 1455 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Immigration data on 22:58 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who said you have been tricksy?
Hey look fire away and present data as you like. I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers. It is probably also worth adding that according to Newsnight the recent Albanian migrants are not applying for asylum but using modern slavery legislation so won't feature in your quoted data.
The earlier link I posted also illustrated that France and Germany have a rapid repatriation agreement with Albania (part of the reason for the increase here)so I'm not sure if anyone is going to come out of this smelling of roses. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 22:59]
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Why is it more reasonable to consider the total number of applications than the number per head of population?
Should Vatican City, Nauru and Liechenstein be taking the same number of asylum applicants as USA and Brazil? | |
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| Immigration data on 23:09 - Nov 2 with 1451 views | jeera |
| Immigration data on 22:58 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who said you have been tricksy?
Hey look fire away and present data as you like. I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers. It is probably also worth adding that according to Newsnight the recent Albanian migrants are not applying for asylum but using modern slavery legislation so won't feature in your quoted data.
The earlier link I posted also illustrated that France and Germany have a rapid repatriation agreement with Albania (part of the reason for the increase here)so I'm not sure if anyone is going to come out of this smelling of roses. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 22:59]
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"An alleged failure by the Home Office to share with the Albanian government the routes taken by those arriving in Britain is being blamed for holding back efforts to stop the Channel crossings."
Goes on to say:
"The deal is understood to prohibit sharing of information “if the exchange, use or further disclosure” could mean it was given to those from whom people are seeking refuge."
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Not that I get it either.
Your link suggests it's our own Home Office that isn't functioning properly here, (not having that!), and so impeding investigations into the people smuggling saga.
But also then states that Albanians running from persecution cannot legally have information supplied about them. So which is it? If they are all economic migrants (not my words) then what's the problem and why if Braverman hates them all so much isn't she using more of the opportunities that are supposedly available to her dept? |  |
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| Immigration data on 23:20 - Nov 2 with 1438 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 22:58 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who said you have been tricksy?
Hey look fire away and present data as you like. I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers. It is probably also worth adding that according to Newsnight the recent Albanian migrants are not applying for asylum but using modern slavery legislation so won't feature in your quoted data.
The earlier link I posted also illustrated that France and Germany have a rapid repatriation agreement with Albania (part of the reason for the increase here)so I'm not sure if anyone is going to come out of this smelling of roses. [Post edited 2 Nov 2022 22:59]
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“ I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers.”
For who?
Everyone apart from CB seems to understand what rate means. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 23:28 - Nov 2 with 1430 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 23:20 - Nov 2 by eireblue |
“ I simply thought it was ok for CB to also highlight that the graph didn't equate to absolute numbers.”
For who?
Everyone apart from CB seems to understand what rate means. |
I don't imagine it was for anyone, he was probably just stating it as fact. Is there a problem with using absolute numbers?
No down vote intended btw! | |
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| Immigration data on 23:30 - Nov 2 with 1426 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Immigration data on 23:28 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I don't imagine it was for anyone, he was probably just stating it as fact. Is there a problem with using absolute numbers?
No down vote intended btw! |
Yes, because absolute numbers are less appropriate and because the graph clearly states it is a rate! | |
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| Immigration data on 23:49 - Nov 2 with 1412 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 23:28 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I don't imagine it was for anyone, he was probably just stating it as fact. Is there a problem with using absolute numbers?
No down vote intended btw! |
A single absolute number stated on its own is meaningless. It is very rare to see an absolute single number used in isolation.
Some people that use an absolute number, don’t simply use them in isolation, you should be more wary of people appearing to use an absolute number, than a clear set of numbers.
For example using a large number and saying the U.K. can’t cope. That is an example of a statement about the per capita cost of supporting asylum seekers, but it isn’t explicitly stated as a rate. That would be a dishonest way to use an absolute number, and it is frequently done.
Explicitly stating a rate, when a rate is an appropriate measure and comparator is perfectly sensible and open.
And as the graph above shows, the U.K. has dealt with higher numbers of asylum seekers in the past.
What Sue Ellen should be saying is, crikey, we need to crank up the machine, we seem to be struggling with only 50k asylum seekers, very sorry everyone, let me make sure we can cope with 80 90 thousand asylum seekers so we can properly do our bit. | | | |
| Immigration data on 00:41 - Nov 3 with 1378 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 23:28 - Nov 2 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I don't imagine it was for anyone, he was probably just stating it as fact. Is there a problem with using absolute numbers?
No down vote intended btw! |
I reckon you've run out of excuses now.
What's your opinion of Braverman's approach? | | | |
| Immigration data on 07:23 - Nov 3 with 1324 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 00:41 - Nov 3 by XYZ |
I reckon you've run out of excuses now.
What's your opinion of Braverman's approach? |
I am not sure why you imagine I was excusing anything. | |
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