| Immigration data 21:04 - Nov 1 with 11323 views | Mullet |
I appreciate it's one graph etc. but it does shed a light on the awful rhetoric and ignorance this shambolic government trade on doesn't it?
The "take back control" lie pivoting to this dehumanising 1984 level of shrieking from Braverman and her racist rent-a-gobs is depressing too. |  |
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| Immigration data on 17:58 - Nov 3 with 1979 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Immigration data on 09:45 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
As somebody who is pro immigration and has a real concern for refugees, not just from the moment they make their journey to the UK but how they are integrated into the community, supported with housing, language needs, job opportunity support, education etc, I’m slightly concerned about how this debate is being shut down.
I think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 and refugees who are fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution, and raising issues that should be open to discussion without them being accused of being gammon faced ‘kippers.
As per my previous post on this thread it is a fact that this government has been whipping up anti immigration hysteria for far too long. We’ve had Theresa May’s ‘Hostile Environment’ and Priti Patel’s ‘Nationality & Borders Bill’ (AKA the anti-refugee bill), the ‘Rwanda’ policy that is so enthusiastically embraced by the current Home Secretary.
The Government are making it harder for refugees to come to the UK, offering no safe routes. When they do arrive, they are put into cramped conditions and treated like criminals. The system is so slow that only 4% of people who arrived on small boats in 2021 have had their asylum claims processed this year. This leads to more overcrowding and inhumane conditions.
Meanwhile our politicians feed off this overcrowding to play on people’s fears that we are being swamped by an “invasion”. We see news reports of ‘brown skinned” people standing outside of hotels, talking in a foreign language. If they were white and talking English, we wouldn’t bat an eyelid. But again, it plays one people’s fears and prejudices.
Of the claims from people arriving in 2021 that have been processed, 85% were granted protection. That means the vast majority were found to be genuine refugees. If we had a functioning asylum process then the other 96% of people who arrived then 85% of them would now be fully functioning members of society, rather than being in overcrowded hotels or processing centres.
Every single refugee deserves our compassion and our support.
However, we also need to have a grown up discussion about economic migration. Particularly those young men of working age who are from Albania. A safe European country.
The figures I gave earlier of 85% of claims from people arriving in 2021 being granted protection were from a year when just 800 people from Albania arrived by boat into the UK. Many will be part of that 15% who were not granted asylum. The year before, 2020, just 50 people from Albania arrived in the UK on small boats. We still have 2 months of this year to go, and that figure is 12,000.
12,000 who are mostly young men of working age, who are not fleeing war, famine, violence, or persecution.
We have a perfect storm. An immigration and asylum system that is not fit for purpose, that leaves people in limbo, existing (not living) in cramped and overcrowded conditions. A hostile and populist government that plays on the fears and prejudices of its people. And thousands of economic migrants thrown into the mix.
This is only going to hurt ‘genuine’ refugees and asylum seekers. It’s going to embolden the likes of Farage and his hate spewing rhetoric.
Shutting down the debate is basically doing Farage’s work for him. |
Uppy for a thoughtful post, but I'm not overly comfortable with taking the narrative of lone males and 'safe' countries at face value generally. There are all sorts of reasons why males may be more susceptible to abuse in their own countries or why they are sent out from families to seek a better alternative (from males being more likely to be dissidents to traditional families who wouldn't dream of sending the women). And "safe countries" may not actually be that safe for certain people. Albania for example still has a problem with beatings in detention and violence against journalists, women and LGBT people (according to latest Amnesty country report).
I fully agree with the rest though, especially around the need for a better system and a data based approach to understand what's actually going on. We'll find out eventually how many Albanians have genuine claims once their applications are (eventually) reviewed.
I don't know whether you've seen this, but he talks about the lone male issue by way of a real example (assuming we take it as true). I thought it was an interesting anecdote and little piece of history.
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| Immigration data on 17:58 - Nov 3 with 1969 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 17:48 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Just who are you accusing of racism here Harry? Because gtsb and bansky certainly aren't.
Although the accusation is pretty ironic from a man who recently called a woman of colour an "uncle Tom" and said that she "wasn't comfortable being black" [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 17:58]
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Do you have a link to those comments being made? |  | | |
| Immigration data on 18:27 - Nov 3 with 1917 views | eireblue |
| Immigration data on 17:34 - Nov 3 by chicoazul |
I know *you* can’t stop it, you just wish they would. |
Mind reader as well, is there no beginning to your talents. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 18:28 - Nov 3 with 1912 views | HARRY10 |
Poor dimwitted righties. Only now grasping the consequences of leaving the EU, and importantly the Dublin accord.
Cutting a massive, and much needed source of labour has meant employers having to look elsewhere.And surprise surprise, it is the nearest country outside of the EU that is the provider.
it is as much as in the 18th century when enormous resources were expended on customs, to stop various goods avoiding duty by smuggling the stuff into the country. A very simple solution was eventually grasped. Remove the import duty. The smuggling stopped virtually overnight.
Fast forward to 1920s USA. There righties in some puritanical zeal, banned the sale of alcohol. Crime followed. Eventually non rightie folk realise the idiocy and repealed the law.
Albanians are being smuggled in as labour. That will not stop as long as there is a huge labour shortage in the UK, and huge unemployment in Albania. It is as futile as the supposed war on drugs.
However, it is in the interests of a failing government to use this as a distraction. The same government who spouted nonsense about supposedly controlling our borders and are now stuck with the consequences. Huge labour shortage.
The dimwitted righties in the US fell for similar lies when the orange faced buffoon told them that he would build a wall to stop labour entering from the south. Unfortunately as long as the imbalance between labour and work exists there would be illegal entry. Not being too bright the righties had not twigged that the entrance point into the US was via corrupt border guards. | | | |
| Immigration data on 18:46 - Nov 3 with 1867 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 17:58 - Nov 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Uppy for a thoughtful post, but I'm not overly comfortable with taking the narrative of lone males and 'safe' countries at face value generally. There are all sorts of reasons why males may be more susceptible to abuse in their own countries or why they are sent out from families to seek a better alternative (from males being more likely to be dissidents to traditional families who wouldn't dream of sending the women). And "safe countries" may not actually be that safe for certain people. Albania for example still has a problem with beatings in detention and violence against journalists, women and LGBT people (according to latest Amnesty country report).
I fully agree with the rest though, especially around the need for a better system and a data based approach to understand what's actually going on. We'll find out eventually how many Albanians have genuine claims once their applications are (eventually) reviewed.
I don't know whether you've seen this, but he talks about the lone male issue by way of a real example (assuming we take it as true). I thought it was an interesting anecdote and little piece of history.
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Hi. Yes i did read that thread yesterday. It's very moving.
Coincidently Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart made the same point as I did on their pod that I listened to on the way home from work today. A guardian article recently attributed it to a power grab of the UK's marijuana and cocaine market. [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 18:53]
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| Immigration data on 18:49 - Nov 3 with 1867 views | chicoazul |
| Immigration data on 18:27 - Nov 3 by eireblue |
Mind reader as well, is there no beginning to your talents. |
Just a reader. |  |
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| Immigration data on 19:37 - Nov 3 with 1834 views | bluelagos |
| Immigration data on 17:58 - Nov 3 by Swansea_Blue |
Uppy for a thoughtful post, but I'm not overly comfortable with taking the narrative of lone males and 'safe' countries at face value generally. There are all sorts of reasons why males may be more susceptible to abuse in their own countries or why they are sent out from families to seek a better alternative (from males being more likely to be dissidents to traditional families who wouldn't dream of sending the women). And "safe countries" may not actually be that safe for certain people. Albania for example still has a problem with beatings in detention and violence against journalists, women and LGBT people (according to latest Amnesty country report).
I fully agree with the rest though, especially around the need for a better system and a data based approach to understand what's actually going on. We'll find out eventually how many Albanians have genuine claims once their applications are (eventually) reviewed.
I don't know whether you've seen this, but he talks about the lone male issue by way of a real example (assuming we take it as true). I thought it was an interesting anecdote and little piece of history.
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Going back a few years I spent 13 months in Monrovia in the aftermath of the elections. Previously the civil war had left 1 in 12 of the Liberian population dead, 2 in 3 displaced from their homes.
One of the ways the soldiers intimidated locals into providing money was the use of human intenstines across a road block. The message was simple, give us money of it could be your intenstines instead.
I spoke a lot to my staff, who would casually talk about the most traumatic experiences. I genuinely think many people just buried much of what had happened. Tommy was one of my staff and we bonded as Tommy had been in Lagos during the war, same time I was there.
When I asked how he came to be in Lagos, he explained how he went to the port, hid on a boat and fled the boat the first port it stopped at. When he fled, he had no idea what country he was in, just that he was safe and no longer in Liberia. Tommy would joke that Lagos was tough, but clearly it was safer than war torn Liberia.
Had Tommy had family, I doubt he would have fled. Same if he was an old woman. But does anyone wish to seriously claim, Tommy, a young, fit, healthy male, on his own, wasn't a refugee?
If you so, you're an idiot.
And there are lots of Tommies. Young, fit and healthy men are far more likely to be able to flee, be that from Monrovia to Lagos or Syria to Dover. [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 19:43]
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| Immigration data on 19:50 - Nov 3 with 1813 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 19:37 - Nov 3 by bluelagos |
Going back a few years I spent 13 months in Monrovia in the aftermath of the elections. Previously the civil war had left 1 in 12 of the Liberian population dead, 2 in 3 displaced from their homes.
One of the ways the soldiers intimidated locals into providing money was the use of human intenstines across a road block. The message was simple, give us money of it could be your intenstines instead.
I spoke a lot to my staff, who would casually talk about the most traumatic experiences. I genuinely think many people just buried much of what had happened. Tommy was one of my staff and we bonded as Tommy had been in Lagos during the war, same time I was there.
When I asked how he came to be in Lagos, he explained how he went to the port, hid on a boat and fled the boat the first port it stopped at. When he fled, he had no idea what country he was in, just that he was safe and no longer in Liberia. Tommy would joke that Lagos was tough, but clearly it was safer than war torn Liberia.
Had Tommy had family, I doubt he would have fled. Same if he was an old woman. But does anyone wish to seriously claim, Tommy, a young, fit, healthy male, on his own, wasn't a refugee?
If you so, you're an idiot.
And there are lots of Tommies. Young, fit and healthy men are far more likely to be able to flee, be that from Monrovia to Lagos or Syria to Dover. [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 19:43]
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I haven't seen anyone on here suggest that somebody in Tommy's position isn't a refugee. | |
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| Immigration data on 20:03 - Nov 3 with 1809 views | bluelagos |
| Immigration data on 19:50 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
I haven't seen anyone on here suggest that somebody in Tommy's position isn't a refugee. |
Anyone who uses the "single men are not refugees" narrative is talking bollx. That has been used a number of times. I share the story to challenge that narrative. It is simply nonsense to state that because people are single, male and healthy they can not be genuine refugees.
If you think no one had used that narrative in the past few days I'd suggest you have a reread of the various threads. | |
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| Immigration data on 20:11 - Nov 3 with 1800 views | Seablu |
| Immigration data on 17:42 - Nov 3 by gtsb1966 |
because I have nothing else to say. I've stated my views on the subject and stick by them. Too many people crossing our borders illegally who are not escaping persecution or war. They are my last words on the subject otherwise we just go round in circles. |
Ooooh, an uppy from Edinburgh Blue..
Is that the smarter, brighter buttcheek of the northern tory Brexit a*se alliance?
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| Immigration data on 20:11 - Nov 3 with 1800 views | gtsb1966 |
| Immigration data on 20:03 - Nov 3 by bluelagos |
Anyone who uses the "single men are not refugees" narrative is talking bollx. That has been used a number of times. I share the story to challenge that narrative. It is simply nonsense to state that because people are single, male and healthy they can not be genuine refugees.
If you think no one had used that narrative in the past few days I'd suggest you have a reread of the various threads. |
Nobody said everyone. |  | | |
| Immigration data on 20:47 - Nov 3 with 1744 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 17:43 - Nov 3 by HARRY10 |
" think gtsb and Banksy are making legitimate points about the difference between economic migration by mostly men from safe countries between the ages of 18 to 30 "
That they are Muslim just happens to be a coincidence ?
It is not about numbers either. Were that to be the case, then there would have been an outcry over the tens of thousands of Ukrainians.
There would be a recognition that over the past two years a million or more EU workers have left, so a few thousand coming in is no big deal/
Nope it is racism. Simple as that. And no weasel words to the contrary will suggest otherwise, as the above shows. |
Spectacular Harry even for your good self...have an uppie! |  |
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| Immigration data on 21:06 - Nov 3 with 1716 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Immigration data on 18:46 - Nov 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi. Yes i did read that thread yesterday. It's very moving.
Coincidently Alistair Campbell and Rory Stewart made the same point as I did on their pod that I listened to on the way home from work today. A guardian article recently attributed it to a power grab of the UK's marijuana and cocaine market. [Post edited 3 Nov 2022 18:53]
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I’ll give that a listen thanks, I’ve not been paying that podcast much attention (or any lately for that matter). | |
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| Immigration data on 08:45 - Nov 4 with 1599 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 21:06 - Nov 3 by Swansea_Blue |
I’ll give that a listen thanks, I’ve not been paying that podcast much attention (or any lately for that matter). |
Rory Stewart wants the world to come together to agree a quota so that everybody takes a fair share of people seeking refuge. Alistair Campbell also pointed out that Japan and sone other Asian counties take zero refugees. It was a good listen.
This is very well said.on last night’s QT.
Braverman is really stoking up hatred that isn’t normally heard from mainstream politicians. It’s Farage-esque. | |
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| Immigration data on 09:26 - Nov 4 with 1558 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Immigration data on 08:45 - Nov 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Rory Stewart wants the world to come together to agree a quota so that everybody takes a fair share of people seeking refuge. Alistair Campbell also pointed out that Japan and sone other Asian counties take zero refugees. It was a good listen.
This is very well said.on last night’s QT.
Braverman is really stoking up hatred that isn’t normally heard from mainstream politicians. It’s Farage-esque. |
Hadn't realised that Braverman flew in to visit that refugee centre in a Chinook until watching that last night. Nice visuals!! | |
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| Immigration data on 10:08 - Nov 4 with 1527 views | ElephantintheRoom |
That graph is somewhat skewed by the ‘per population’ - and ignores the UK deliberately slowing down processing
The figures for countries with most immigrants is even more revealing - given that the war cry of racist Brexiteers is ‘economic migrants’ | |
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| Immigration data on 10:12 - Nov 4 with 1521 views | StokieBlue |
| Immigration data on 10:08 - Nov 4 by ElephantintheRoom |
That graph is somewhat skewed by the ‘per population’ - and ignores the UK deliberately slowing down processing
The figures for countries with most immigrants is even more revealing - given that the war cry of racist Brexiteers is ‘economic migrants’ |
It's not skewed, it's correctly normalised.
Using absolute values would skew the graph because it doesn't give a realistic view of immigrations numbers versus the theoretical ability of the country to cope with them.
SB |  |
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| Immigration data on 11:49 - Nov 4 with 1467 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Immigration data on 09:26 - Nov 4 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Hadn't realised that Braverman flew in to visit that refugee centre in a Chinook until watching that last night. Nice visuals!! |
Awful optics for normal decent people. Wonderful optics for her demographic. | |
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| Immigration data on 11:57 - Nov 4 with 1447 views | StokieBlue |
| Immigration data on 11:49 - Nov 4 by GlasgowBlue |
Awful optics for normal decent people. Wonderful optics for her demographic. |
Should have made her stay there for a few days in the same conditions as the people in the camp.
She wouldn't be missed from her duties.
SB | |
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| Immigration data on 11:57 - Nov 4 with 1455 views | blueasfook |
And then there is this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070
Clear evidence that the system is being exploited by criminal gangs. What most people want is genuine asylum seekers coming to the UK, not people coming over to work in criminal enterprises. |  |
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| Immigration data on 12:30 - Nov 4 with 1401 views | XYZ |
| Immigration data on 11:57 - Nov 4 by blueasfook |
And then there is this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070
Clear evidence that the system is being exploited by criminal gangs. What most people want is genuine asylum seekers coming to the UK, not people coming over to work in criminal enterprises. |
12 years of tories has made the UK a criminals' paradise.
The BBC can get this info but the authorities can't stop this activity? The tories are quite happy for the gangs to carry on. It's all a performance. | | | |
| Immigration data on 12:50 - Nov 4 with 1389 views | gtsb1966 |
| Immigration data on 11:57 - Nov 4 by blueasfook |
And then there is this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-63488070
Clear evidence that the system is being exploited by criminal gangs. What most people want is genuine asylum seekers coming to the UK, not people coming over to work in criminal enterprises. |
You can't post that on here. Everyone who comes here has a legitimate reason apparently. | | | |
| Immigration data on 13:00 - Nov 4 with 1362 views | Darth_Koont |
| Immigration data on 12:50 - Nov 4 by gtsb1966 |
You can't post that on here. Everyone who comes here has a legitimate reason apparently. |
To all intents and purposes, yes they all have legitimate reasons or should be assumed to have.
Then their claims are processed. So the system, however shonky, does look at legitimacy.
Turning this around, why are people pushing the “illegitimate” refugees line when the system assesses everyone and even rejects many claims already? Seems like that’s an attempt to deny legitimacy to refugees and asylum seekers as a group. What other purpose does it serve? |  |
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| Get the Guardian to…. on 13:24 - Nov 4 with 1319 views | Bloots |
| Immigration data on 12:50 - Nov 4 by gtsb1966 |
You can't post that on here. Everyone who comes here has a legitimate reason apparently. |
….run the same story.
Then it’s totally acceptable on here.
Echo, echo, echo….. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Get the Guardian to…. on 14:08 - Nov 4 with 1272 views | blueasfook |
| Get the Guardian to…. on 13:24 - Nov 4 by Bloots |
….run the same story.
Then it’s totally acceptable on here.
Echo, echo, echo….. |
Guardian would never run such a story. It's not attacking the govt and portraying all who enter the UK as poor, desperate people fleeing war zones and persecution.
The real need to is to establish safe and legal routes for genuine asylum seekers to get to Britain and literally take away the market for these gangs. That's where the govt have failed IMO. | |
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