| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage 09:10 - Jul 26 with 8753 views | blueasfook |
He's brought down the chief exec of Nat West. |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:24 - Jul 26 with 1618 views | lowhouseblue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:15 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
It's not discrimination it's business, that's the rub of capitalism. By your logic you can't get barred from a pub or shop for your behaviour.
This isn't an argument about his beliefs, it's his behaviour based on them. He is a media shill for Far Right, whackadoodles and all sorts. His brand is damaged/damaging isn't it?
The fact that Coutts are quite happy to bow and scrape for the business of the Windsors is what makes them hypocrites. I suspect their client list has a raft of nastiness on it, but this reminds of the Epstein stuff except the banks wanted to do everything to keep him because he was worth so much . |
it is discrimination if you deny some group of people services that you offer to others. what other groups of people would you want companies to deny services to? the only behaviour covered in the report was farage's act of expressing opinions. you need to get past the fact that you disagree with him and stick up for some fundamental rights. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:29 - Jul 26 with 1586 views | Blueschev |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:24 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
it is discrimination if you deny some group of people services that you offer to others. what other groups of people would you want companies to deny services to? the only behaviour covered in the report was farage's act of expressing opinions. you need to get past the fact that you disagree with him and stick up for some fundamental rights. |
I agree with your sentiment here, but I would ask again, is that actually what has happened here? |  | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:36 - Jul 26 with 1572 views | DJR |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 09:57 - Jul 26 by chicoazul |
In that case why aren’t you in favour of a business deciding not to deal with someone because of concerns over their character? |
If character strays into criminality (eg. money laundering, dodgy money) that is fine, but character isn't the same as political views.
And I no more support Farage's links to Djokovic being brought up as evidence of bad character in the Coutts dosier than I support Jamie Driscoll's appearance with Ken Loach being brought up as evidence to prevent Driscoll standing for mayor.
At the end of the day, we can't say that those who supported Brexit have bad character because we will end up with millions without a bank account. |  | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 with 1533 views | lowhouseblue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:29 - Jul 26 by Blueschev |
I agree with your sentiment here, but I would ask again, is that actually what has happened here? |
a bank (which incidentally is partly publicly owned and only operates because it has a state issued licence) has carried out an investigation of the views of one of its customers and produced a 60 page report analysing that customer's legal political opinions. it has disregarded his confidentiality and, very likely, breached gdpr (is one of its stated purposes for collecting and processing personal data to carry out an assessment of his opinions?). who else has been subject to this procedure? are there 100s of these reports, all cobbled together from stuff on the internet, waiting to come out? the bank has then denied services to someone because the bank (or some of its employees?) disagrees with that person's views. if it was any one other than farage there would be outrage on here that an institution is behaving in such an oppressive, illegal and undemocratic manner. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 with 1534 views | Mullet |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:24 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
it is discrimination if you deny some group of people services that you offer to others. what other groups of people would you want companies to deny services to? the only behaviour covered in the report was farage's act of expressing opinions. you need to get past the fact that you disagree with him and stick up for some fundamental rights. |
You're just arguing against a prefabricated position here, Farage's expressing opinions and Coutts deciding they don't want him attached to them is not discrimination. It's based on behaviour and they're a private company.
You've got this completely mixed up. Which protected characteristic is being discriminated against here? These are the consequences of his actions and as a private business they can do what they want, even if they're a bank for assholes.
He was even offered a NatWest account was he not? So discrimination is a non-starter here. The fact you've bought into his Trumpian victim narrative is exactly what he's after. No one has a fundamental right to a Coutts account - the idea you're arguing that is absurd.
Now if we're going to overthrow the banking system and nationalise all of it, so we all have the same accounts..... |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:54 - Jul 26 with 1495 views | blueasfook |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You're just arguing against a prefabricated position here, Farage's expressing opinions and Coutts deciding they don't want him attached to them is not discrimination. It's based on behaviour and they're a private company.
You've got this completely mixed up. Which protected characteristic is being discriminated against here? These are the consequences of his actions and as a private business they can do what they want, even if they're a bank for assholes.
He was even offered a NatWest account was he not? So discrimination is a non-starter here. The fact you've bought into his Trumpian victim narrative is exactly what he's after. No one has a fundamental right to a Coutts account - the idea you're arguing that is absurd.
Now if we're going to overthrow the banking system and nationalise all of it, so we all have the same accounts..... |
His political leanings were discussed internally when deciding to debank him - as evidenced by the Subject Matter Request he got. In my opinion, his political stance should not have been a matter of discussion for his bank.
OK, ultimately they came up with the excuse that he didnt have enough Wonga to be a Coutts customer, but even so the fact that his political viewpoints were brought to the table in these discussions is wrong. | |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:55 - Jul 26 with 1473 views | Blueschev |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
a bank (which incidentally is partly publicly owned and only operates because it has a state issued licence) has carried out an investigation of the views of one of its customers and produced a 60 page report analysing that customer's legal political opinions. it has disregarded his confidentiality and, very likely, breached gdpr (is one of its stated purposes for collecting and processing personal data to carry out an assessment of his opinions?). who else has been subject to this procedure? are there 100s of these reports, all cobbled together from stuff on the internet, waiting to come out? the bank has then denied services to someone because the bank (or some of its employees?) disagrees with that person's views. if it was any one other than farage there would be outrage on here that an institution is behaving in such an oppressive, illegal and undemocratic manner. |
"The bank has then denied services to someone because the bank (or some of its employees?) disagrees with that person's views." - I think that's a false narrative, as as far as I understand it, they didn't do that.
A bank investigating a customer's political views does make me very uncomfortable, though given the amount of money handled by this particular institution it doesn't really surprise me. | | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:56 - Jul 26 with 1465 views | lowhouseblue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You're just arguing against a prefabricated position here, Farage's expressing opinions and Coutts deciding they don't want him attached to them is not discrimination. It's based on behaviour and they're a private company.
You've got this completely mixed up. Which protected characteristic is being discriminated against here? These are the consequences of his actions and as a private business they can do what they want, even if they're a bank for assholes.
He was even offered a NatWest account was he not? So discrimination is a non-starter here. The fact you've bought into his Trumpian victim narrative is exactly what he's after. No one has a fundamental right to a Coutts account - the idea you're arguing that is absurd.
Now if we're going to overthrow the banking system and nationalise all of it, so we all have the same accounts..... |
i have not said that what coutts did was illegal (other than possibly breaching confidentiality and gdpr) - so protected characteristics don't come into play. my argument is about what is right rather than what is currently legal. and you are turning a blind eye to something which is blatantly not right in a liberal democracy just because you disagree politically with farage. let's say the co-op bank carries out a similar process and decides that corbyn is a non-person and withdraws his bank card? I assume you'd say "as a private business they can do what they want"? of course you would. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:58 - Jul 26 with 1458 views | Zapers |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You're just arguing against a prefabricated position here, Farage's expressing opinions and Coutts deciding they don't want him attached to them is not discrimination. It's based on behaviour and they're a private company.
You've got this completely mixed up. Which protected characteristic is being discriminated against here? These are the consequences of his actions and as a private business they can do what they want, even if they're a bank for assholes.
He was even offered a NatWest account was he not? So discrimination is a non-starter here. The fact you've bought into his Trumpian victim narrative is exactly what he's after. No one has a fundamental right to a Coutts account - the idea you're arguing that is absurd.
Now if we're going to overthrow the banking system and nationalise all of it, so we all have the same accounts..... |
I think you misunderstand the use of the words " Private Banking"
Coutts Private banking are regulated just the same as a retail bank. The government have threatened, quite rightly, to take their license away.
Play the ball and not the man. |  | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:01 - Jul 26 with 1447 views | Mullet |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:54 - Jul 26 by blueasfook |
His political leanings were discussed internally when deciding to debank him - as evidenced by the Subject Matter Request he got. In my opinion, his political stance should not have been a matter of discussion for his bank.
OK, ultimately they came up with the excuse that he didnt have enough Wonga to be a Coutts customer, but even so the fact that his political viewpoints were brought to the table in these discussions is wrong. |
No it's not. They're a bank for the mega rich not UNICEF. This is another example of FAFO, you're welcome to your opinion but that doesn't mean it's worthy of consideration here unless we completely tear down banking as mentioned.
Farage has played a blinder in shifting the focus here, as he often does. Coutts can and will do as they please, the fact people are suddenly wise to that, let alone shocked by it is the funny thing here.
Everything is up for discussion when you bank with someone. Ultimately, if they think there's a risk you'll lose them money they'll talk about it, consider it and do what's best for them. Especially when his politics is linked to how and where he gets his money from. This positioning him as some sort of exception or martyr is exactly what he's after. | |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:04 - Jul 26 with 1419 views | Blueschev |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:56 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
i have not said that what coutts did was illegal (other than possibly breaching confidentiality and gdpr) - so protected characteristics don't come into play. my argument is about what is right rather than what is currently legal. and you are turning a blind eye to something which is blatantly not right in a liberal democracy just because you disagree politically with farage. let's say the co-op bank carries out a similar process and decides that corbyn is a non-person and withdraws his bank card? I assume you'd say "as a private business they can do what they want"? of course you would. |
"let's say the co-op bank carries out a similar process and decides that corbyn is a non-person and withdraws his bank card." - That's not even close to what's happened here. | | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:07 - Jul 26 with 1411 views | DJR |
As you may have gathered, I don't often agree with Keir Starmer but I think he has got it right here.
Speaking on BBC Radio Five Live, Starmer said nobody should be refused banking services on account of their political views, the Guardian’s Andrew Sparrow reports.
"NatWest got this one wrong. And that’s why Alison Rose had to resign."
Asked if he felt sorry for Nigel Farage, Starmer said:
"Yeah, he shouldn’t have had his personal details revealed like that. It doesn’t matter who you are, that’s a general rule.
I certainly don’t think anybody should be refused banking services because of their political views, whoever they are."
Asked if banks had too much power when it comes to individuals, he said:
I’m surprised to hear these stories of banks taking into account political views, if indeed they are. I don’t know that we’ve got to the bottom of this. But that shouldn’t happen and certainly shouldn’t be a reason for refusing someone banking services. | | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:08 - Jul 26 with 1398 views | Mullet |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:56 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
i have not said that what coutts did was illegal (other than possibly breaching confidentiality and gdpr) - so protected characteristics don't come into play. my argument is about what is right rather than what is currently legal. and you are turning a blind eye to something which is blatantly not right in a liberal democracy just because you disagree politically with farage. let's say the co-op bank carries out a similar process and decides that corbyn is a non-person and withdraws his bank card? I assume you'd say "as a private business they can do what they want"? of course you would. |
You said it was discrimination. You keep arguing as if I've said Coutts are right and wonderful for doing this. Banking is not really known for following the will of liberal democracy either is it? So your position has more than few holes in it.
The Co-op have a different set of values, but much like Coutts they'd be answerable to a select group of people not the general public as a whole. How the Co-op spun and justified that would be interesting, but I'd not be demanding they reinstate Jezza either.
If you're truly arguing about what is "right" then you'd have far bigger issues with Coutts going back a long time, way ahead of the queue than National Front Nige distracting us from the fact he's in need of another grift to bank there. | |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:12 - Jul 26 with 1379 views | Mullet |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:58 - Jul 26 by Zapers |
I think you misunderstand the use of the words " Private Banking"
Coutts Private banking are regulated just the same as a retail bank. The government have threatened, quite rightly, to take their license away.
Play the ball and not the man. |
I think you misunderstand pretty much everything here Zapers. Retail, not nationalised. Coutts are by their nature exclusive, elitist and shrouded in secrecy (until someone does a SAR ironically).
It's got little to do with the man, other than it's very funny seeing him being lauded for his hypocrisy and teary-eyed posturing. The fact Coutts/NatWest have made a massive cock up too doesn't make him the Mandela of current accounts. | |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:14 - Jul 26 with 1351 views | JohnTy |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:58 - Jul 26 by Zapers |
I think you misunderstand the use of the words " Private Banking"
Coutts Private banking are regulated just the same as a retail bank. The government have threatened, quite rightly, to take their license away.
Play the ball and not the man. |
The current PEP guidelines suggest to me that the decision to close Farage's account was justifiable.
Whatever his political views, Farage is a dodgy character with links to Trump and allegedly to Russia. In my experience as a small charity treasurer I know just how cautious banks are about current money lending regulations, and any kind of link to potential overseas sources of money would disqualify our charity from an account with any bank. |  | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:16 - Jul 26 with 1337 views | Zapers |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:08 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You said it was discrimination. You keep arguing as if I've said Coutts are right and wonderful for doing this. Banking is not really known for following the will of liberal democracy either is it? So your position has more than few holes in it.
The Co-op have a different set of values, but much like Coutts they'd be answerable to a select group of people not the general public as a whole. How the Co-op spun and justified that would be interesting, but I'd not be demanding they reinstate Jezza either.
If you're truly arguing about what is "right" then you'd have far bigger issues with Coutts going back a long time, way ahead of the queue than National Front Nige distracting us from the fact he's in need of another grift to bank there. |
Of course it's discrimination, he already had an account with Coutts.
If you apply for a bank account, and you are turned down, the bank are not at liberty to disclose the reason. If you already have a bank account, and the bank try and close that account purely based on the fact they don't agree with someones political standpoint, that is discrimination. | | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:16 - Jul 26 with 1336 views | hype313 |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:14 - Jul 26 by JohnTy |
The current PEP guidelines suggest to me that the decision to close Farage's account was justifiable.
Whatever his political views, Farage is a dodgy character with links to Trump and allegedly to Russia. In my experience as a small charity treasurer I know just how cautious banks are about current money lending regulations, and any kind of link to potential overseas sources of money would disqualify our charity from an account with any bank. |
I'd wager you would find hundreds of dodgy characters with links to all sorts of unsavoury regimes banking with Coutts. |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:21 - Jul 26 with 1313 views | DanTheMan |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
a bank (which incidentally is partly publicly owned and only operates because it has a state issued licence) has carried out an investigation of the views of one of its customers and produced a 60 page report analysing that customer's legal political opinions. it has disregarded his confidentiality and, very likely, breached gdpr (is one of its stated purposes for collecting and processing personal data to carry out an assessment of his opinions?). who else has been subject to this procedure? are there 100s of these reports, all cobbled together from stuff on the internet, waiting to come out? the bank has then denied services to someone because the bank (or some of its employees?) disagrees with that person's views. if it was any one other than farage there would be outrage on here that an institution is behaving in such an oppressive, illegal and undemocratic manner. |
"has carried out an investigation of the views of one of its customers and produced a 60 page report analysing that customer's legal political opinion"
No, it didn't. That's not what the dump is that Farage shared. That report was a load of different things (sometimes investigations) that were concatenated into one document. The only investigations were adverse media checks which are completely normal in the financial industry, especially for anyone considered a high-profile or potentially high-risk client.
Adverse media checks will find just what it says on the tin, adverse media. They aren't going out of their way to look for political opinions, just anything that might be negative. At its most serious, this usually includes things like terrorism but here they use a lower barrier of what they consider adverse.
" it has disregarded his confidentiality and, very likely, breached gdpr (is one of its stated purposes for collecting and processing personal data to carry out an assessment of his opinions?)"
I'm not sure why you think they breached GDPR here. They're allowed to store this data, in fact, they usually have to store this data. It''s required by the FCA. And even so, how is it breaching confidentiality by running checks on publicly accessible media? The only breach I can see was the leak to the BBC which wasn't right and quite frankly very dumb.
"are there 100s of these reports, all cobbled together from stuff on the internet, waiting to come out?"
Probably. I'd be very surprised if they were not running adverse media checks given their clientele to do risk analysis. I imagine there will be people with much more risk than Farage but they'll bring in enough money that Coutts don't care.
"the bank has then denied services to someone because the bank (or some of its employees?) disagrees with that person's views."
That's not what happened and I'm still bemused as to why people think this is the case. The report clearly stated the risk committee didn't think he was high risk but ultimately he went under the threshold they considered once his mortgage was up. The fact it's being spun otherwise is just bananas. |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:22 - Jul 26 with 1306 views | patrickswell |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:18 - Jul 26 by blueasfook |
Read this article. Tells you what it he was all about. Shame he coudn't be so strong-willed in stopping his missus playing away from home.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-parliament-supended-no-deal-queens-s
"So now will be the time for Bercow to push the nuclear button. I’m sure he will bend parliamentary procedure – or rip it up, depending on your viewpoint – to allow MPs to pass legislation requiring Johnson to seek an extension to Article 50, using a beefed-up version of the Standing Order 24 procedure, allowing for emergency debates. If there’s a prospect of revoking Article 50 before 31 October, Bercow will ensure that there is time for such a law to pass. " |
You - and that article - are talking about what Bercow felt about Brexit. I have been talking about what Bercow did in relation to Brexit. And nothing he did played a part in stopping Brexit getting through, at least not in a unilateral sense.
There was widespread disquiet about the prorogation of Parliament and MPs on both sides of the House of Commons wanted to see the deadline to Article 50 extended beyond October 31 given that there was fundamental disagreement about how to implement it. Johnson had taken control of a Government which had no overall majority at the time and consequently no means of getting what it wanted achieved through the votes because they did not have the numbers to do so at the time. |  | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:25 - Jul 26 with 1289 views | Blueschev |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:16 - Jul 26 by Zapers |
Of course it's discrimination, he already had an account with Coutts.
If you apply for a bank account, and you are turned down, the bank are not at liberty to disclose the reason. If you already have a bank account, and the bank try and close that account purely based on the fact they don't agree with someones political standpoint, that is discrimination. |
Coutts haven't done that though, have they. Why have the entire media and political class fallen in to this false narrative? | | | |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:41 - Jul 26 with 1261 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:01 - Jul 26 by stickymockwell |
And she brought herself down! Not Farage |
That’s not correct. Had Farage not been like a dog with an itch this would never have become public. Then he pursued their report and got that published. |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:47 - Jul 26 with 1236 views | Guthrum |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:24 - Jul 26 by lowhouseblue |
it is discrimination if you deny some group of people services that you offer to others. what other groups of people would you want companies to deny services to? the only behaviour covered in the report was farage's act of expressing opinions. you need to get past the fact that you disagree with him and stick up for some fundamental rights. |
If it was most people I'd agree. But Farage is an arch-deregulatory free marketeer. Hoist by his own petard, in this instance. |  |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 12:14 - Jul 26 with 1174 views | lowhouseblue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:47 - Jul 26 by Guthrum |
If it was most people I'd agree. But Farage is an arch-deregulatory free marketeer. Hoist by his own petard, in this instance. |
you test people's principles with difficult cases. what this demonstrates alas is that for a lot of people their commitment to free speech and diversity of opinion is very thin. if it's someone they don't like then they don't care. voltaire and all that. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 12:16 - Jul 26 with 1154 views | lowhouseblue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 11:08 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You said it was discrimination. You keep arguing as if I've said Coutts are right and wonderful for doing this. Banking is not really known for following the will of liberal democracy either is it? So your position has more than few holes in it.
The Co-op have a different set of values, but much like Coutts they'd be answerable to a select group of people not the general public as a whole. How the Co-op spun and justified that would be interesting, but I'd not be demanding they reinstate Jezza either.
If you're truly arguing about what is "right" then you'd have far bigger issues with Coutts going back a long time, way ahead of the queue than National Front Nige distracting us from the fact he's in need of another grift to bank there. |
yes i said it was discrimination. look up its definition. it is discrimination on the basis of opinion - treating someone differently because of that characteristic. i didn't say it was illegal. the word discrimination doesn't only exist in a legal context. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 12:21 - Jul 26 with 1135 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Love him or hate him, you got to hand it to Farage on 10:48 - Jul 26 by Mullet |
You're just arguing against a prefabricated position here, Farage's expressing opinions and Coutts deciding they don't want him attached to them is not discrimination. It's based on behaviour and they're a private company.
You've got this completely mixed up. Which protected characteristic is being discriminated against here? These are the consequences of his actions and as a private business they can do what they want, even if they're a bank for assholes.
He was even offered a NatWest account was he not? So discrimination is a non-starter here. The fact you've bought into his Trumpian victim narrative is exactly what he's after. No one has a fundamental right to a Coutts account - the idea you're arguing that is absurd.
Now if we're going to overthrow the banking system and nationalise all of it, so we all have the same accounts..... |
Quite. And just to add, that’s not the same as supporting the banks. Shouldn’t even need saying, but there we are. |  |
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