| Mason Greenwood, part 427 09:47 - Aug 16 with 6968 views | itfc_bucks |
I'm sure this has been done to death, but it's back in the news again today.
We all heard the recording, we all know how it sounded. There's an argument that we haven't heard "his side", but honestly, I can't imagine what context he can add here that would make this better in any way at all.
At risk of sounding "flouncy", I don't think I'd set foot in Portman Road ever again if he signed for us, but I'm quite certain that huge swathes of football fans would welcome him to their clubs and not bat an eyelid.
Genuinely hoping that Bowyer and Thatcher are as bad as it ever gets here. |  | | |  |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 13:43 - Aug 16 with 1758 views | Zx1988 |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 13:03 - Aug 16 by Vic |
I'm a massive believer in giving people a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th chance. We all make mistakes and need to be given a chance.
BUT - that chance comes after a statement of remorse and regret and showing some evidence of the genuineness of this. If Greenwood is sorry then he needs to publicly say so. |
For me there's a distinction between certain types of crime as well, notwithstanding the basic requirement for remorse etc.,
I wouldn't want anyone with convictions for serious 'offences against the person' stuff to find their way to Ipswich, or any other sort of offence that requires the offender to make a conscious decision to take a particular course of action against another person - Adam Johnson, Lee Bowyer etc., Remorse or not, these people made decisions to engage in sexual relations with a minor, attack someone on the grounds of their race and suchlike.
Other stuff I'd be more inclined to take a view upon. | |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:18 - Aug 16 with 1715 views | Vic |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 13:12 - Aug 16 by Horsham |
I imagine the legalities all get a bit complicated in that if he says sorry then presumably it’s pretty worthless without saying what he’s sorry for, and if he says what he’s sorry for then potentially that’s potentially tantamount to a confession and admissible as well evidence that could could lead to a conviction. The lack of a conviction doesn’t mean he’s innocent. |
Is there any doubt about his guilt? Isn't it more that his GF, changed her mind on pressing charges. They reconciled and he;s now father of her children and, I think still together.
I'm sure a form of words would need to be felt, but he surely he could say that he's sorry if his words gave the impression of something. he could likewise say that he detests sexual violence and abuse, or something similar.
Where there's a will there's a way! |  |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:20 - Aug 16 with 1714 views | CrockerITFC |
When was he ever linked with us?!
Given our funding comes from a pension fund for the police, I'd be amazed if we ever made an approach for him. Don't forget, Norwood got bombed out of the squad for a good while because of his drink-driving. |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:23 - Aug 16 with 1701 views | itfc_bucks |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:18 - Aug 16 by Vic |
Is there any doubt about his guilt? Isn't it more that his GF, changed her mind on pressing charges. They reconciled and he;s now father of her children and, I think still together.
I'm sure a form of words would need to be felt, but he surely he could say that he's sorry if his words gave the impression of something. he could likewise say that he detests sexual violence and abuse, or something similar.
Where there's a will there's a way! |
The CPS certainly thought there was a reasonable product of getting a conviction, as they charged him. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:23 - Aug 16 with 1697 views | itfc_bucks |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:20 - Aug 16 by CrockerITFC |
When was he ever linked with us?!
Given our funding comes from a pension fund for the police, I'd be amazed if we ever made an approach for him. Don't forget, Norwood got bombed out of the squad for a good while because of his drink-driving. |
Nobody is claiming we are linked.
Just a hypothetical, "if we were" situation. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:31 - Aug 16 with 1684 views | CrockerITFC |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:23 - Aug 16 by itfc_bucks |
Nobody is claiming we are linked.
Just a hypothetical, "if we were" situation. |
The chance is so minuscule it's not even worth discussing imo.
Just think of the public relations fallout if the story got back to the US - Gamechanger used part of a US police pension fund to bankroll a club that has a player who "allegedly" committed domestic abuse on it's books...no chance! | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:40 - Aug 16 with 1643 views | Horsham |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:18 - Aug 16 by Vic |
Is there any doubt about his guilt? Isn't it more that his GF, changed her mind on pressing charges. They reconciled and he;s now father of her children and, I think still together.
I'm sure a form of words would need to be felt, but he surely he could say that he's sorry if his words gave the impression of something. he could likewise say that he detests sexual violence and abuse, or something similar.
Where there's a will there's a way! |
If only Sparks was here!
I’m just saying I’d imagine his lawyers would be very specific in terms of advising him what he should and shouldn’t say and there being quite a lot of jeopardy for him personally in making any admissions of guilt in an apology.
That said if it’s ok, just my personal opinion as a father of two girls. I wouldn’t p!ss on the bloke if he was on fire. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 14:48]
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:47 - Aug 16 with 1623 views | Ryorry |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 13:16 - Aug 16 by Kievthegreat |
That is a transcript of the audio recording his partner released on Instagram. It was released along with a series of photos showing her with a busted, bleeding lip and various bruises on her body.
As others have mentioned, charges were dropped as she did not want to give evidence against him.
Still does not alter my view that I'd want nothing to do with him and that I'd want the club to have nothing to do with him. |
So there is evidence of him being violent off the pitch to someone presumably not as physically strong or heavy as he is.
I'm all for second chances , esp for a youngster, but on the face of it that's not someone you'd want at the training ground unless he can show he's taken steps to rehabilitate himself & successfully come through an anger-management programme or something similar. |  |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:54 - Aug 16 with 1605 views | pointofblue |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:20 - Aug 16 by CrockerITFC |
When was he ever linked with us?!
Given our funding comes from a pension fund for the police, I'd be amazed if we ever made an approach for him. Don't forget, Norwood got bombed out of the squad for a good while because of his drink-driving. |
Think some thought McKenna may give him a chance because of his history with Manchester United. Guess the same argument could be made at Middlesbrough.
Personally I think Greenwood will go abroad. | |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 15:15 - Aug 16 with 1579 views | CrockerITFC |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:54 - Aug 16 by pointofblue |
Think some thought McKenna may give him a chance because of his history with Manchester United. Guess the same argument could be made at Middlesbrough.
Personally I think Greenwood will go abroad. |
Yeah I could see that being more likely | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 15:34 - Aug 16 with 1555 views | itfcjoe |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:52 - Aug 16 by Dyland |
I don’t disagree with the general point, but there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. Some things are unforgivable imho, because they point to something really heinous and egregious in someone’s character. But in this case there’s no actual evidence or conviction so need to be careful what we write. Whatever the truth is he has a lot of baggage and I wouldn’t want him here. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have a career in football per se though. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 12:54]
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I guess the problem is we say it is 'unforgiveable' but the person who is the victim in this has forgiven him and chosen to start a family with him.
I'm of the hypocritic view that I think he should be allowed to resume his career but I wouldn't want him here |  |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 15:39 - Aug 16 with 1537 views | SamWhiteUK |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:48 - Aug 16 by BigCommon |
"Kid does something regrettable".. Shock horror.
Happens all the time in real life...
Not condoning what happened or trying to downplay the seriousness of anything. But, imo, kids should always be given a second chance. If he repeat offends, or if he was a grown man in his twenties or thirties. Then I'd take a different view...
Can't go hammering someone forever, because they made a big mistake as a young boy, imo. |
He's not a young boy, he's an adult (supposedly). |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 15:53 - Aug 16 with 1501 views | ITFC1977 |
He’s obviously well out of our league so no need to think about that.
The recording is awful and if he’d been convicted then there’s no argument.
But he’s a 19 year old boy, talking like how lots of the new generation talk now, he is somebody that has no known previous disgusting history, if anyone could possibly learn and rehabilitate himself then he deserves a chance.
No excusing his behaviour but people can change and for a young lad he should be given a chance in my opinion . Obviously not here but if he goes on to have a good career and causes no problems in the future then it’s a chance that everyone should have as to write someone off at 19 with no second chance is harsh. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 17:24 - Aug 16 with 1419 views | Zx1988 |
Reading the statement out of United this afternoon, it seems as if they're laying the groundwork to re-integrate him into the club.
An excerpt below:
"This [the internal investigation] has drawn on extensive evidence and context not in the public domain, and we have heard from numerous people with direct involvement or knowledge of the case.
"Throughout this process, the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club's enquiries, and we respect her right to lifelong anonymity.
"We also have responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner.
[...]
"[...]we understand the strong opinions it has provoked based on the partial evidence in the public domain."
Regardless of the girlfriend's refusal to cooperate with the CPS, the whole thing utterly stinks. I'd be very interested to understand the additional context behind an uncontested recording of what sounds terribly close to attempted rape, and the uncontested physical injuries inflicted upon the victim. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 17:26]
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 18:07 - Aug 16 with 1360 views | itfc_bucks |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 17:24 - Aug 16 by Zx1988 |
Reading the statement out of United this afternoon, it seems as if they're laying the groundwork to re-integrate him into the club.
An excerpt below:
"This [the internal investigation] has drawn on extensive evidence and context not in the public domain, and we have heard from numerous people with direct involvement or knowledge of the case.
"Throughout this process, the welfare and perspective of the alleged victim has been central to the club's enquiries, and we respect her right to lifelong anonymity.
"We also have responsibilities to Mason as an employee, as a young person who has been with the club since the age of seven, and as a new father with a partner.
[...]
"[...]we understand the strong opinions it has provoked based on the partial evidence in the public domain."
Regardless of the girlfriend's refusal to cooperate with the CPS, the whole thing utterly stinks. I'd be very interested to understand the additional context behind an uncontested recording of what sounds terribly close to attempted rape, and the uncontested physical injuries inflicted upon the victim. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 17:26]
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There's no context that justifies what we heard in that recording. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 18:12 - Aug 16 with 1344 views | Zx1988 |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 18:07 - Aug 16 by itfc_bucks |
There's no context that justifies what we heard in that recording. |
Exactly. It's gaslighting, pure and simple.
No suggestion of remorse, contrition, or even admission of any form of wrongdoing from Greenwood.
Instead we're told that we don't know the whole story, and seemingly that it would be terribly unfair on Greenwood for any sort of serious action to be taken against him.
Reading between the lines, in particular the 'employee' bit, I do wonder if the lack of any sort of conviction has left United powerless to do anything without being sued for wrongful dismissal. | |
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 20:35 - Aug 16 with 1266 views | ibbleobble |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 13:03 - Aug 16 by Vic |
I'm a massive believer in giving people a 2nd, 3rd or even 4th chance. We all make mistakes and need to be given a chance.
BUT - that chance comes after a statement of remorse and regret and showing some evidence of the genuineness of this. If Greenwood is sorry then he needs to publicly say so. |
When it comes to committing the most heinous of crimes against others, I’m not in favour of second chances - there are limits. Rape and murder are the two worst. In the case of rape, unsurprisingly 4 of the top 5 countries with the worst cases per 100k are African and the other, perhaps surprisingly, is Sweden (definitions of rape change from country to country). Botswana is the worst offender with 96 people per 100k. Of those 96 people, you can assume there were 96 assailants or thereabouts. Why give these assailants another chance? Society doesn’t need them to evolve and function correctly, if anything, the opposite. What’s the greater good in rehabilitation when the victims will never truly be rehabilitated and forever scarred by the selfish actions of others?
Regarding Mason and his situation, which is completely different to the above, agree he needs to show remorse and make amends but a to continue being a public face representing a community for children to aspire to? Not for me. His time in the sport is done and he should focus on a new life being the best father he can be imo. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 20:52 - Aug 16 with 1248 views | BarcaBlue |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 20:35 - Aug 16 by ibbleobble |
When it comes to committing the most heinous of crimes against others, I’m not in favour of second chances - there are limits. Rape and murder are the two worst. In the case of rape, unsurprisingly 4 of the top 5 countries with the worst cases per 100k are African and the other, perhaps surprisingly, is Sweden (definitions of rape change from country to country). Botswana is the worst offender with 96 people per 100k. Of those 96 people, you can assume there were 96 assailants or thereabouts. Why give these assailants another chance? Society doesn’t need them to evolve and function correctly, if anything, the opposite. What’s the greater good in rehabilitation when the victims will never truly be rehabilitated and forever scarred by the selfish actions of others?
Regarding Mason and his situation, which is completely different to the above, agree he needs to show remorse and make amends but a to continue being a public face representing a community for children to aspire to? Not for me. His time in the sport is done and he should focus on a new life being the best father he can be imo. |
Why is it unsurprising from your figures that 4 out of 5 are African countries? I don't think I could have guessed which continent those stats might refer to. |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 21:39 - Aug 16 with 1232 views | BarcaBlue |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 20:35 - Aug 16 by ibbleobble |
When it comes to committing the most heinous of crimes against others, I’m not in favour of second chances - there are limits. Rape and murder are the two worst. In the case of rape, unsurprisingly 4 of the top 5 countries with the worst cases per 100k are African and the other, perhaps surprisingly, is Sweden (definitions of rape change from country to country). Botswana is the worst offender with 96 people per 100k. Of those 96 people, you can assume there were 96 assailants or thereabouts. Why give these assailants another chance? Society doesn’t need them to evolve and function correctly, if anything, the opposite. What’s the greater good in rehabilitation when the victims will never truly be rehabilitated and forever scarred by the selfish actions of others?
Regarding Mason and his situation, which is completely different to the above, agree he needs to show remorse and make amends but a to continue being a public face representing a community for children to aspire to? Not for me. His time in the sport is done and he should focus on a new life being the best father he can be imo. |
... and Sweden fifth? Blond hair, blue eyes, you wouldn't expect that, you're right. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 11:45 - Aug 17 with 1088 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:54 - Aug 16 by pointofblue |
Think some thought McKenna may give him a chance because of his history with Manchester United. Guess the same argument could be made at Middlesbrough.
Personally I think Greenwood will go abroad. |
Anyone thinking that haven't taken into account who we are owned by.
There are places in the world where, sadly, domestic and sexual violence is not talked about, if not condoned.
Surely he will end up in one of those Leagues? | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:00 - Aug 17 with 1059 views | Vaughan8 |
I'd agree that if he played for Ipswich I don't think I would go until he left. Flouncy or not.
The hard thing is, i'm guessing Man Utd can't just "sack him" as he's not been legally proven guilty. The stuff posted online both audio and pictures are pretty damning.
not sure what the "let's ask the ladies team" has to do with it though? Is there opinion really going to matter?
Doesn't seem to have shown any remorse or got rehabilitated (though I suppose we don't fully know) and I think that is what people don't like.
The goalie at Plymouth at least got a sentence, did his time etc (depsite it being incredibly low for killing 2 people!) [Post edited 17 Aug 2023 12:01]
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| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:04 - Aug 17 with 1051 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 15:53 - Aug 16 by ITFC1977 |
He’s obviously well out of our league so no need to think about that.
The recording is awful and if he’d been convicted then there’s no argument.
But he’s a 19 year old boy, talking like how lots of the new generation talk now, he is somebody that has no known previous disgusting history, if anyone could possibly learn and rehabilitate himself then he deserves a chance.
No excusing his behaviour but people can change and for a young lad he should be given a chance in my opinion . Obviously not here but if he goes on to have a good career and causes no problems in the future then it’s a chance that everyone should have as to write someone off at 19 with no second chance is harsh. |
Talking like somebody from an Andrew Tate style porno is one thing, but his partner posted the video of him allegedly talking like that, alongside photos showing actual injuries.
And that is all we can say, legally.
Britain has a sexual violence problem.
Consent is absolute
Don't touch without permission.
"No" means "No".
No questions or excuses on any of the above. Any influencer or social media personality who says otherwise is toxic.
Oh, and as well as the cultural change that we all need to be part of, how about properly funding investigation of sexual crime and making it a Policing priority? | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:07 - Aug 17 with 1044 views | BigCommon |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:52 - Aug 16 by Dyland |
I don’t disagree with the general point, but there are mistakes and then there are mistakes. Some things are unforgivable imho, because they point to something really heinous and egregious in someone’s character. But in this case there’s no actual evidence or conviction so need to be careful what we write. Whatever the truth is he has a lot of baggage and I wouldn’t want him here. I’m not saying he shouldn’t have a career in football per se though. [Post edited 16 Aug 2023 12:54]
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Agree, I don't think anyone with " baggage" would be a good fit here. There is so much good happening here, that we don't need an outside story polluting all the good work the club are doing..
But, imo, holding a personal grudge against anyone, is just vindictive. And shows a lack of maturity , in being unable to forgive someone. As hard as it feels , at times.
How are people supposed to change their ways, if others won't let them by keep branding them with their past? |  | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:11 - Aug 17 with 1030 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 18:12 - Aug 16 by Zx1988 |
Exactly. It's gaslighting, pure and simple.
No suggestion of remorse, contrition, or even admission of any form of wrongdoing from Greenwood.
Instead we're told that we don't know the whole story, and seemingly that it would be terribly unfair on Greenwood for any sort of serious action to be taken against him.
Reading between the lines, in particular the 'employee' bit, I do wonder if the lack of any sort of conviction has left United powerless to do anything without being sued for wrongful dismissal. |
No. They could sack under "Bringing the Club into disrepute" and he would have a ridiculously difficult job in proving he hadn't at an Employment Tribunal!
More likely they are treading water until they can do a deal with a club elsewhere in the world and at least make a few million on their "asset".
It stinks. | | | |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 12:21 - Aug 26 with 743 views | Sharkey |
| Mason Greenwood, part 427 on 14:20 - Aug 16 by CrockerITFC |
When was he ever linked with us?!
Given our funding comes from a pension fund for the police, I'd be amazed if we ever made an approach for him. Don't forget, Norwood got bombed out of the squad for a good while because of his drink-driving. |
I guess it's because he was very much McKenna's player at Manchester United, going through the age groups with him. |  | | |
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