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Controversial opinion 08:05 - Sep 15 with 4362 viewsnrb1985

Love the "Life's a pitch" show Phil and others produce but Terry Butcher really can be a tough listen .

The discussion about Woolfy in the latest episode where he said he needs to be a bit more like Chiellini and that "during his day..." blah blah. It is very often like listening to Uncle Albert.

Woolfy is a rolls royce of a defender like Ferdinand or Carvalho and that's what he should aspire to be.

***prepares tin hat***
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Controversial opinion on 08:36 - Sep 15 with 3641 viewsfranz_tyson

Come on, perspective please. Butcher has played at the highest level of English football. And ...ahem... Scottish football. And World Cups.
So Woolfenden is a Rolls Royce defender? He's played 5 Championship games ( maybe a 6th under Hurst). I'm not criticizing Woolf, just questioning some of the 'over-the-top' accolades. If he's that good - he'd have been snapped up by a PL team already. If Woolf wants to be a better defender, then maybe he could work on parts of his game. Perhaps being a bit stronger at times, better concentration.
What should he do? Just say nice things?
If Tuanazebe replaces Woolf, not Burgess, in the team - I do wonder what the uproar would be like.
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Controversial opinion on 08:37 - Sep 15 with 3635 viewsChurchman

He can chip away a bit and I get what you are saying, but I think he’s ok. I listened to his thirty five mins with Russell Osman and I thought both were interesting in what they had to say about the current team, the set up and the club, but they’re obviously going to reference that to their own time.
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Controversial opinion on 08:49 - Sep 15 with 3597 viewstextbackup

Agree 100%

The amount of times that he mentions drinking back in the day, or how they would boot people up in the air. Bit repetitive

We’ll be good again... one day
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Controversial opinion on 09:20 - Sep 15 with 3510 viewsVic

Tin hat not necessary as far as I’m concerned; it’s fine to have an opinion and can see why there are some who find him a bit negative or get a bit fed up with his constant references to the past. I think he overdoes it at times and find myself saying ‘Oh come on Butch, cheer up’.

But at the same time, as someone who grew up watching us from the early 70’s Butch I find it interesting hearing about how things worked in the past, things we had very little inkling of.

His comments about Woolfie are interesting and I think reflect something of his own character. He was blood and thunder and crunching tackles. Someone like Rio Ferdinand (or even Osman to a lesser degree) was a more graceful player, but still seemed to have a way of imposing the opposition. Woolfie does seem to have developed that yet. That’s what I took Butch to be playing.

I liked thier comments about Ladapo.

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Controversial opinion on 09:23 - Sep 15 with 3490 viewsnrb1985

Controversial opinion on 08:49 - Sep 15 by textbackup

Agree 100%

The amount of times that he mentions drinking back in the day, or how they would boot people up in the air. Bit repetitive


This.

It really does feel like most episodes he treats as his very own after dinner talk. And the constant references back to what happened in his day are indeed tiring. His criticism of Woolfenden, who behind Leif is arguably our most valuable player, seemed to basically be he's never had a broken nose...

Cards on the table also, some unconscious bias as well on my part I'm sure, but I've soured somewhat on Butcher since it became clear he's a Farage sympathiser.
[Post edited 15 Sep 2023 9:34]
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Controversial opinion on 09:39 - Sep 15 with 3425 viewstractorboy1978

Controversial opinion on 08:36 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Come on, perspective please. Butcher has played at the highest level of English football. And ...ahem... Scottish football. And World Cups.
So Woolfenden is a Rolls Royce defender? He's played 5 Championship games ( maybe a 6th under Hurst). I'm not criticizing Woolf, just questioning some of the 'over-the-top' accolades. If he's that good - he'd have been snapped up by a PL team already. If Woolf wants to be a better defender, then maybe he could work on parts of his game. Perhaps being a bit stronger at times, better concentration.
What should he do? Just say nice things?
If Tuanazebe replaces Woolf, not Burgess, in the team - I do wonder what the uproar would be like.


People will wake up and realise just how good Woolfenden is soon.
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Controversial opinion on 09:45 - Sep 15 with 3381 viewsHerbivore

Controversial opinion on 08:36 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Come on, perspective please. Butcher has played at the highest level of English football. And ...ahem... Scottish football. And World Cups.
So Woolfenden is a Rolls Royce defender? He's played 5 Championship games ( maybe a 6th under Hurst). I'm not criticizing Woolf, just questioning some of the 'over-the-top' accolades. If he's that good - he'd have been snapped up by a PL team already. If Woolf wants to be a better defender, then maybe he could work on parts of his game. Perhaps being a bit stronger at times, better concentration.
What should he do? Just say nice things?
If Tuanazebe replaces Woolf, not Burgess, in the team - I do wonder what the uproar would be like.


Why would Tuanzebe be coming in for Woolfenden?

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Controversial opinion on 09:49 - Sep 15 with 3365 viewsVic

Controversial opinion on 09:39 - Sep 15 by tractorboy1978

People will wake up and realise just how good Woolfenden is soon.


He’s good, no he’s a fantastic player. But Butchers comment was just questioning how much fear opposition forwards have of him. Not too much yet - but it will come I’m sure.

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Controversial opinion on 09:58 - Sep 15 with 3331 viewsfranz_tyson

Controversial opinion on 09:45 - Sep 15 by Herbivore

Why would Tuanzebe be coming in for Woolfenden?


Why would Tuanzebe come in for Burgess?

That's assuming Tuanzebe is being brought here to be in the team. He's either coming in for Woolf or Burgess. I don't think it's a given Burgess will make way. Many have assumed already Burgess will be dropped. Think when it comes to blocking, heading, tackling, Burgess is just a bit better. Woolf obviously being a better ball player.
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Controversial opinion on 10:00 - Sep 15 with 3301 viewsKeno

Controversial opinion on 09:58 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Why would Tuanzebe come in for Burgess?

That's assuming Tuanzebe is being brought here to be in the team. He's either coming in for Woolf or Burgess. I don't think it's a given Burgess will make way. Many have assumed already Burgess will be dropped. Think when it comes to blocking, heading, tackling, Burgess is just a bit better. Woolf obviously being a better ball player.


or maybe we will go to back 3 sometimes?

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Controversial opinion on 10:08 - Sep 15 with 3269 viewsnrb1985

Controversial opinion on 09:39 - Sep 15 by tractorboy1978

People will wake up and realise just how good Woolfenden is soon.


yeah but he doesn't have a broken nose or "put his head in wear it hurts".
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Controversial opinion on 10:30 - Sep 15 with 3224 viewsfranz_tyson

Controversial opinion on 09:39 - Sep 15 by tractorboy1978

People will wake up and realise just how good Woolfenden is soon.


We're new to the Championship - so for many players it's impossible to know how good many of our players are. That includes Woolf. Over the course of the season, we're likely to see one or two old favourites who were very good at L1 level fall away. Don't think that will be Woolf, but it's too soon to start saying how good he is.
Maybe Butcher knows what he's talking about in regards to how he could improve, but isn't able to articulate it to a modern audience.. or an audience who just wants to hear that Woolfy is the finished article. That's all some want to hear. I think he has improved a lot over the last season, but could improve more in cutting out the odd error and being stronger at times.
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Controversial opinion on 10:32 - Sep 15 with 3206 viewstractorboy1978

Controversial opinion on 10:30 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

We're new to the Championship - so for many players it's impossible to know how good many of our players are. That includes Woolf. Over the course of the season, we're likely to see one or two old favourites who were very good at L1 level fall away. Don't think that will be Woolf, but it's too soon to start saying how good he is.
Maybe Butcher knows what he's talking about in regards to how he could improve, but isn't able to articulate it to a modern audience.. or an audience who just wants to hear that Woolfy is the finished article. That's all some want to hear. I think he has improved a lot over the last season, but could improve more in cutting out the odd error and being stronger at times.


It's really not too soon. He will play in the Premier League with or without us.
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Controversial opinion on 10:37 - Sep 15 with 3128 viewsHerbivore

Controversial opinion on 09:58 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Why would Tuanzebe come in for Burgess?

That's assuming Tuanzebe is being brought here to be in the team. He's either coming in for Woolf or Burgess. I don't think it's a given Burgess will make way. Many have assumed already Burgess will be dropped. Think when it comes to blocking, heading, tackling, Burgess is just a bit better. Woolf obviously being a better ball player.


Defending isn't just about heading and tackling, if you have to make a tackle more often than not it's because you've made a minor mistake already. I wish some of our fans could appreciate what an excellent defender Woolfenden is, he's not in the side just because he's comfortable on the ball. He's our best defender, his reading of the game is excellent.

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Controversial opinion on 11:04 - Sep 15 with 3058 viewstpsontour

Butcher captained England at centre half in a World Cup semi-final, so I for one am interested in his views on those playing that position for us.

I sat next to Sheffield United's scout several seasons back when they were Premier League and he was there to watch Wolf (after already taking McGoldrick). They must have concluded there was then something missing in his game from what they wanted.

Butcher puts it as a bit of bite, showing more aggression in his play and imposing himself on forwards more. Others have pointed out he can be too casual and loses concentration at times.

We've just brought in Tuanzebe after conceding six in two home games, so it will be interesting to see who eventually makes way if we get him fit. He really was a Rolls Royce defender at his best for Man U, lightning quick and strong enough to keep Mbappe quiet away to PSG in the Champions League...
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Controversial opinion on 11:34 - Sep 15 with 2986 viewsSlippinJimmyJuan

Controversial opinion on 09:58 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Why would Tuanzebe come in for Burgess?

That's assuming Tuanzebe is being brought here to be in the team. He's either coming in for Woolf or Burgess. I don't think it's a given Burgess will make way. Many have assumed already Burgess will be dropped. Think when it comes to blocking, heading, tackling, Burgess is just a bit better. Woolf obviously being a better ball player.


Burgess, for all the strengths you mention, is the player that can tend to stick out to me in this side. He's often not particularly comfortable on the ball and has a habit of slowing us down or putting us in a compromised position through a passing error. He's hit some great passes too, but he's less consistent than others. He has improved immeasurably under McKenna and was instrumental in the run in last season, but my heart still skips a beat any time somebody runs at him.

Woolfenden, I just find to be a calming presence, another leader and an excellent reader of the game. People have talked about recent mistakes but that ignores the fact that Hladky doesn't have the same command of his area as Walton, and Clarke is nursing an injury. Largely, I have found Woolfenden to be extremely comfortable and suited to this level. He's the crux of our defence and key to how we play. All the other components are changeable around him, which is a great position to be in.

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Controversial opinion on 11:37 - Sep 15 with 2960 viewsburnbudgiesburn

Wolfy gets criticised at times because similarly to Ladapo he has a lazy languid running style.
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Controversial opinion on 16:24 - Sep 15 with 2619 viewsSharkey

I did think Butcher cut off Skuse when it seemed that Skuse might be about to say something (surprisingly) candid about the managers he played under. Skuse did cover Mick McC in some depth, though there were no surprises there. I thought TB put words into Skuse's mouth when it came to Hurst, and Lambert didn't get reviewed at all when it seemed to me that Skuse was prepared to spill some beans.
[Post edited 15 Sep 2023 16:25]
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Controversial opinion on 06:54 - Sep 16 with 2252 viewsWestcountryblue

Totally agree with the opening post. He can be quite dismissive and a little scathing at times. Perhaps that comes with the territory of capitaining your country and playing at the very top level.
Still, he's an Ipswich legend and clearly loves the club.
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Controversial opinion on 09:14 - Sep 16 with 2097 viewsMattinLondon

Controversial opinion on 06:54 - Sep 16 by Westcountryblue

Totally agree with the opening post. He can be quite dismissive and a little scathing at times. Perhaps that comes with the territory of capitaining your country and playing at the very top level.
Still, he's an Ipswich legend and clearly loves the club.


I’m just a bit too young to really remember Butcher as a player - so was he someone who could pass the ball out and run with the ball? Did he have that cultured edge his game that is demanded by most PL teams?

Whenever someone mentions TB I feel duty bound to add this clip in.

https://www.bt.com/sport/watch/video/clips/2017/february/terry-butcher-flattens-
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Controversial opinion on 10:28 - Sep 16 with 2032 viewsbraveblue

Controversial opinion on 08:36 - Sep 15 by franz_tyson

Come on, perspective please. Butcher has played at the highest level of English football. And ...ahem... Scottish football. And World Cups.
So Woolfenden is a Rolls Royce defender? He's played 5 Championship games ( maybe a 6th under Hurst). I'm not criticizing Woolf, just questioning some of the 'over-the-top' accolades. If he's that good - he'd have been snapped up by a PL team already. If Woolf wants to be a better defender, then maybe he could work on parts of his game. Perhaps being a bit stronger at times, better concentration.
What should he do? Just say nice things?
If Tuanazebe replaces Woolf, not Burgess, in the team - I do wonder what the uproar would be like.


Paul Lambert and Roy Keane also played at the highest levels of football!!
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Controversial opinion on 10:37 - Sep 16 with 2027 viewsjacobnikons

Controversial opinion on 09:23 - Sep 15 by nrb1985

This.

It really does feel like most episodes he treats as his very own after dinner talk. And the constant references back to what happened in his day are indeed tiring. His criticism of Woolfenden, who behind Leif is arguably our most valuable player, seemed to basically be he's never had a broken nose...

Cards on the table also, some unconscious bias as well on my part I'm sure, but I've soured somewhat on Butcher since it became clear he's a Farage sympathiser.
[Post edited 15 Sep 2023 9:34]


Butch has always been conservative in his political views. Sorry that you are offended because they don't perhaps match yours. 'Farage sympathiser' typical name calling from the tolerant left who like nothing more than trying to shut down opinions they disagree with.
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Controversial opinion on 11:15 - Sep 16 with 1974 viewsVic

Controversial opinion on 09:14 - Sep 16 by MattinLondon

I’m just a bit too young to really remember Butcher as a player - so was he someone who could pass the ball out and run with the ball? Did he have that cultured edge his game that is demanded by most PL teams?

Whenever someone mentions TB I feel duty bound to add this clip in.

https://www.bt.com/sport/watch/video/clips/2017/february/terry-butcher-flattens-


I’m not sure I’d call him cultured, (in the Bobby Moore or Rio Ferdinand mood) but he was far more than the hard man centre half who could only kick it into row z. He was hard as nails and put his body, and head, on the line when necessary.

But being a Bobby Robson product he could play properly; comfortable on the ball he could play short or long. With the Midfield we had at the time most of the t8me he was playing it short for Muhren etc to weave thier magic. But then he could ping a diagonal pass as good as the rest.

You didn’t get 60+ caps without being a good player. When he speaks he is worth listening to. And for me his comments about Woolfie needing to making forwards fearful of him ring true. It will probs come with time and as they learn to respect him.

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Controversial opinion on 11:39 - Sep 16 with 1940 viewsfranz_tyson

Controversial opinion on 10:28 - Sep 16 by braveblue

Paul Lambert and Roy Keane also played at the highest levels of football!!


Both Paul Lambert and Roy Keane got teams promoted from the Championship That's what we want to achieve. Your logic: Lambert and Keane did sh1t here...so they must be useless... and they also played at the highest level like Butcher... so they all must talk sh1t. Not sure about that. Maybe Butcher isn't slagging off Woolf, but trying to help him in his own way. Fans are pissed off with him ecause he's not lauding him. Is it his job just to keep on doing a puff piece on the club and players?
Butcher was coaching here until quite recently with the youngsters. With Dyer.(?). Never heard a bad word about him.
I prefer his abrasive style to having someone just saying lots of nice things just to appease fans.
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Controversial opinion on 12:49 - Sep 16 with 1848 viewsTRUE_BLUE123

Yep really struggling with it tbh which is shame cause Mark Murphy is superb in that format and they get superb guests and it’s a superb set up.

But Butch is a tough listen. He talked over Chambers and Skuse regularly. And it’s all a bit. We went out got drunk end of story

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