| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying 09:20 - Oct 1 with 8442 views | redrickstuhaart |
But I thought I would see what Sunak had to say this morning. One of the most rude, dishonest and irritating interviews I have ever seen. Will not answer a single question and keeps talking over her to avoid doing so. Infuriating and utterly disingenuous. |  | | |  |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 14:06 - Oct 1 with 2575 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 12:42 - Oct 1 by DJR |
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I chuckled when I came across this Tweet from Andrew Fisher.
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 14:22 - Oct 1 with 2559 views | Mullet |
You have to question why a man worth so much money and raised in such rarefied air of the British class system, would want to become PM.
Given where so much of our money has gone, the answer is pretty clear.
The fact these bastards come up here and sneer and take the piss whilst doing so is even more infuriating. They've even made the conference centre block ads criticising them on nearby buildings, using a "non competition" clause designed for advertising.
Free speech indeed. |  |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 17:30 - Oct 1 with 2473 views | DJR |
Is it just me, but why the hell are we spending £4 billion to defend the Indo-Pacific region?
"Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, used his conference speech to announce a £4bn investment to advance work on a new class of hunter-killer submarines.
The submarines, which are being developed as part of the Aukus security pact with the US and Australia, will be “the largest, most advanced and most powerful attack submarines ever operated by the Royal Navy, combining world-leading sensors, design and weaponry in one vessel”, the Ministry of Defence said." | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 18:15 - Oct 1 with 2429 views | Radlett_blue |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 09:22 - Oct 1 by Keno |
or put another way "typical tory" |
Or, typical politician. |  |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 18:22 - Oct 1 with 2420 views | peterleeblue |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 09:37 - Oct 1 by Bent_double |
I can't even bother to listen to anything they have to say anymore, it's just meaningless blah, blah, blah - all rehearsed and repeated ad nausaem. |
I've checked out on Politics until we have a general election.
This lot are just running the country into the ground and I am just pig sick of "Pandemic" and "Ukraine war" being blamed for everything. They have had nearly 14 years. Johnson and Truss have done for them. Rees Mogg I detest and a session in the stocks would be too good for him. I don't care what Sunak does or doesn't. They are done. |  | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 20:20 - Oct 1 with 2357 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 09:36 - Oct 1 by Dubtractor |
He's just a robot when being interviewed - has his scripted points and will not/cannot deviate from them. |
Terrible, isn’t he. I’ve not worked out whether he can’t deviate from the key messages or isn’t allowed to. I think it’s the former, as if he knew what he was talking about he’d have the confidence to speak his mind.
A zombie PM for a zombie government.
And choosing to fight a culture war around cars for a PM who takes a helicopter for short journeys and doesn’t know how to fill up a car with petrol. Hilarious  |  |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 20:38 - Oct 1 with 2341 views | SomethingBlue |
He's a rotten, spineless, quite nasty individual who will tacitly endorse things that are outright evil if it gives him the slightest chance of wasting the country's time and money for another five years. He has no respect for a single person who will be reading this. They must be voted out and Sunak & his ilk must not be allowed any further role in public life. [Post edited 1 Oct 2023 20:39]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 21:06 - Oct 1 with 2295 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 12:42 - Oct 1 by DJR |
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That’s an easy one, isn’t it? I don’t think it’s about the costs at all (they obviously don’t understand the value of anything and can’t manage a budget). It’s about ‘freedoms’ again. Brexit mark 2 in a nutshell. | |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 21:43 - Oct 1 with 2287 views | sohamblue74 |
He is a truly horrible little man and a dreadful politician to boot.
General election ASAP please! | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 09:40 - Oct 2 with 2207 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 17:30 - Oct 1 by DJR |
Is it just me, but why the hell are we spending £4 billion to defend the Indo-Pacific region?
"Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, used his conference speech to announce a £4bn investment to advance work on a new class of hunter-killer submarines.
The submarines, which are being developed as part of the Aukus security pact with the US and Australia, will be “the largest, most advanced and most powerful attack submarines ever operated by the Royal Navy, combining world-leading sensors, design and weaponry in one vessel”, the Ministry of Defence said." |
“ Is it just me, but why the hell are we spending £4 billion to defend the Indo-Pacific region?”
It creates skilled jobs in the UK (particularly in deprived regions). and associated tax - not just p1ssing money down the drain.
But specifically, there’s a real growing concern (including in my industry) that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan could happen in the near future. In fact China only recently conducted war games off their coast. Humanitarian issues aside, if China gets control of their semi conductor industry then we have all sorts of problems. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 15:29]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:02 - Oct 2 with 2185 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 09:40 - Oct 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ Is it just me, but why the hell are we spending £4 billion to defend the Indo-Pacific region?”
It creates skilled jobs in the UK (particularly in deprived regions). and associated tax - not just p1ssing money down the drain.
But specifically, there’s a real growing concern (including in my industry) that a Chinese invasion of Taiwan could happen in the near future. In fact China only recently conducted war games off their coast. Humanitarian issues aside, if China gets control of their semi conductor industry then we have all sorts of problems. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 15:29]
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My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.
And I would regard many of the attacks on, or fears about, China as hysteria driven by the struggle between China and the US for political and economic hegemony.
Take for example the decision to remove Huawei from the 5G network, which didn't appear to have any proper security basis, and won't now be completed for some time.
https://www.raconteur.net/global-business/5g-politics-hysteria
https://www.ft.com/content/b8135588-90b9-4a65-b368-e8e377e7b1a6
The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?
As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to those of the West and Russia. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:12]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:20 - Oct 2 with 2149 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:02 - Oct 2 by DJR |
My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.
And I would regard many of the attacks on, or fears about, China as hysteria driven by the struggle between China and the US for political and economic hegemony.
Take for example the decision to remove Huawei from the 5G network, which didn't appear to have any proper security basis, and won't now be completed for some time.
https://www.raconteur.net/global-business/5g-politics-hysteria
https://www.ft.com/content/b8135588-90b9-4a65-b368-e8e377e7b1a6
The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?
As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to those of the West and Russia. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:12]
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“ As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to the West and Russia.”
That’s a really just whatabouterry. The problem with Russia was turning the blind eye to their invasion of Crimea, and we need to learn the lessons of that. You may regard it as hysteria, but there are people who are very knowledgeable about geopolitical risks in my industry that regard it as a real danger. Many people were also dismissive of Russias invasion of Ukraine - describing that as Putin sabre rattling.
Tiktok and others have been misappropriating our data, regardless of content is not acceptable. It’s quite reasonable to ban them on that basis alone. They’ve also blatantly stolen IP from western firms, and attempted to infiltrate parliament.
I’d add that China, much like Russia puts ideology over business, whilst often described as capitalist by the left it’s really not. To invest there as a foreign firm, it’s compulsory to give the state some control over your business. This interference from the state as well as potential for stealing IP is seeing a withdrawal of western firms including HSBC:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/western-firms-shift-investment-china-india-worri
“My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.” So long as we aren’t exporting them, surely it’s better to invest in our own rather than just importing them and creating good jobs abroad. | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:29 - Oct 2 with 2122 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:20 - Oct 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
“ As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to the West and Russia.”
That’s a really just whatabouterry. The problem with Russia was turning the blind eye to their invasion of Crimea, and we need to learn the lessons of that. You may regard it as hysteria, but there are people who are very knowledgeable about geopolitical risks in my industry that regard it as a real danger. Many people were also dismissive of Russias invasion of Ukraine - describing that as Putin sabre rattling.
Tiktok and others have been misappropriating our data, regardless of content is not acceptable. It’s quite reasonable to ban them on that basis alone. They’ve also blatantly stolen IP from western firms, and attempted to infiltrate parliament.
I’d add that China, much like Russia puts ideology over business, whilst often described as capitalist by the left it’s really not. To invest there as a foreign firm, it’s compulsory to give the state some control over your business. This interference from the state as well as potential for stealing IP is seeing a withdrawal of western firms including HSBC:
https://www.reuters.com/markets/western-firms-shift-investment-china-india-worri
“My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.” So long as we aren’t exporting them, surely it’s better to invest in our own rather than just importing them and creating good jobs abroad. |
We can obviously agree to disagree on the threat posed by China, but when it comes to arms it is certainly true that we export them.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/06/uk-remains-second-biggest-arms-exp [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:32]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:36 - Oct 2 with 2101 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
We aren’t exporting these nuclear submarines though, which is what we were taking about. | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:40 - Oct 2 with 2087 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:36 - Oct 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
We aren’t exporting these nuclear submarines though, which is what we were taking about. |
But we will be exporting them to Australia according to this.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-02/bae-systems-awarded-7-6b-contract-develop
And interesting to note when it comes to China that US attitudes to the country changed for the negative with Trump, [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:50]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:52 - Oct 2 with 2059 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yes one of our Allies and 5 eyes - not some despotic regime (they were initially going to buy outdated French Diesel subs).
It’s not really that interesting - Biden has also been bearish on China. In fact he said the US would defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion, which is about as unequivocal as you can get. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:53]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:53 - Oct 2 with 2058 views | giant_stow |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:02 - Oct 2 by DJR |
My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.
And I would regard many of the attacks on, or fears about, China as hysteria driven by the struggle between China and the US for political and economic hegemony.
Take for example the decision to remove Huawei from the 5G network, which didn't appear to have any proper security basis, and won't now be completed for some time.
https://www.raconteur.net/global-business/5g-politics-hysteria
https://www.ft.com/content/b8135588-90b9-4a65-b368-e8e377e7b1a6
The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?
As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to those of the West and Russia. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:12]
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"The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?"
I think that under-estimates TIktok's influence - to nick a point I read elsewhere, why do western kids get cat videos on Tiktok, while Chinese kids get educational stuff? I don't know if thats true btw, but still i think the point stands even if the Chinese end of the statement is bollox.
In a wider sense, China scares the sh1t out of me - if they're allowed to get too powerful, they're surely speed up molding the world to their own authoritarian wants. Look how they've treated Hong Kong. Or if that doesn't scare you, note how their navy is in some ways already surpassing America's / how they're treating their near neighbours in the 9 dash line dispute. |  |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:02 - Oct 2 with 2039 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:53 - Oct 2 by giant_stow |
"The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?"
I think that under-estimates TIktok's influence - to nick a point I read elsewhere, why do western kids get cat videos on Tiktok, while Chinese kids get educational stuff? I don't know if thats true btw, but still i think the point stands even if the Chinese end of the statement is bollox.
In a wider sense, China scares the sh1t out of me - if they're allowed to get too powerful, they're surely speed up molding the world to their own authoritarian wants. Look how they've treated Hong Kong. Or if that doesn't scare you, note how their navy is in some ways already surpassing America's / how they're treating their near neighbours in the 9 dash line dispute. |
I am in no way defending China when it comes to its authoritarianism or human rights record, but my view is that its threat is being built up for largely political reasons. | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:12 - Oct 2 with 2025 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:02 - Oct 2 by DJR |
I am in no way defending China when it comes to its authoritarianism or human rights record, but my view is that its threat is being built up for largely political reasons. |
You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but I’ll stick with the experts.
I’m curious though. did you take the same stance with regards to Russia, did you believe the threat of Putin was being exaggerated (as many anti NATO folk did)? | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:17 - Oct 2 with 2018 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:52 - Oct 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yes one of our Allies and 5 eyes - not some despotic regime (they were initially going to buy outdated French Diesel subs).
It’s not really that interesting - Biden has also been bearish on China. In fact he said the US would defend Taiwan in the event of a Chinese invasion, which is about as unequivocal as you can get. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:53]
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Maybe the despotic regimes will follow in due course, just as they have bought other arms and the like initially developed for British use.
And given your second point, I would imagine China will proceed very carefully. They have, after all, not exactly rushed things since 1949.
But more widely, the new subs seems part of a UK decision, post-Brexit, to position itself towards the Pacific region, but with such small armed forces these days, it does make one think that the country is taking on more than it can chew in a bid to prove the benefits of Brexit. | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:23 - Oct 2 with 2011 views | blueasfook |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 21:43 - Oct 1 by sohamblue74 |
He is a truly horrible little man and a dreadful politician to boot.
General election ASAP please! |
The tories must know they are done. Nothing they can do or say between now and the next election will turn the electorate in their favour after this disastruss (see what I did there?!) term. Even I am going back to Labour at the next GE having voted Conservative in the last two (but that was more down to Corbyn being an unacceptable choice for me). |  |
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:29 - Oct 2 with 1996 views | soupytwist |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 10:02 - Oct 2 by DJR |
My view is that public investment could be put to far better use than arms and the like.
And I would regard many of the attacks on, or fears about, China as hysteria driven by the struggle between China and the US for political and economic hegemony.
Take for example the decision to remove Huawei from the 5G network, which didn't appear to have any proper security basis, and won't now be completed for some time.
https://www.raconteur.net/global-business/5g-politics-hysteria
https://www.ft.com/content/b8135588-90b9-4a65-b368-e8e377e7b1a6
The attack on Tik-Tok appears also to be a case in point, given what can be remotely of interest to the Chinese government of, say, a 14 year old dancing?
As it is, China may on occasions sabre-rattle when it comes to Taiwan (recently after what it would regard as provocation) but its military actions outside its borders pale into insignificance when compared to those of the West and Russia. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 10:12]
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This is an interesting listen for a bit of wider context about China and parts of the world we don't really think about too often (at least I don't) - https://unherd.com/podcasts/the-race-for-the-arctic/
The fact that the Chinese can now use a Northern sea route to get from its east coast to Europe in less than a month was a revelation.
I've no idea what, if any, axe the guest has to grind but I generally trust that Helen Thompson is worth listening to. |  | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:30 - Oct 2 with 1985 views | DJR |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:12 - Oct 2 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but I’ll stick with the experts.
I’m curious though. did you take the same stance with regards to Russia, did you believe the threat of Putin was being exaggerated (as many anti NATO folk did)? |
Given that Putin had invaded Crimea in 2014, and Ukraine had cut off the water supply, I suppose there was a risk that he would want to capture the land in between, but my view on the risk was influenced by what I read in the media, and until the build-up, I got the impression the risk was considered to be low.
Indeed, maybe some experts even got it wrong.
I'll treat your anti-NATO jibe with the contempt it deserves. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 11:35]
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| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:38 - Oct 2 with 1969 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:30 - Oct 2 by DJR |
Given that Putin had invaded Crimea in 2014, and Ukraine had cut off the water supply, I suppose there was a risk that he would want to capture the land in between, but my view on the risk was influenced by what I read in the media, and until the build-up, I got the impression the risk was considered to be low.
Indeed, maybe some experts even got it wrong.
I'll treat your anti-NATO jibe with the contempt it deserves. [Post edited 2 Oct 2023 11:35]
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In restrospect, I can see how it read that way - but the anti NATO comment wasn’t aimed at you in particular (I don’t even know your views on that, so would have been quite an assumption). So apologies. | | | |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 11:41 - Oct 2 with 1966 views | Unhinged_dynamo |
| I dont often watch Kuensberg etc. Too annoying on 12:42 - Oct 1 by DJR |
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It would interesting to see the graph with upto date costs re fuel and insurance etc | |
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