| Did Edmundson get lucky? 19:18 - Oct 28 with 10740 views | ITFCBlues |
I'm not sure he's actually touched him in all honesty. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:19 - Oct 29 with 2503 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:13 - Oct 29 by Herbivore |
Not sure you can call it a great tackle when he gets nowhere near the ball or the man. |
No, it wasn't a good tackle at all. I think we were fortunate in the sense Fridge got caught out and put in a last ditch tackle from behind that 9/10 the ref gives as a foul. I'm not entirely convinced it was a dive from the way he went down. Even the slightest brush at that pace is enough to send someone down. Not sure the video is too conclusive either way.
They were a bit embarrassing at times yesterday but some of Fridge's defending was borderline. There were a couple of times in the second half when he had a handful of Waine's shirt right in front of the lino on the NS side. |  | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:22 - Oct 29 with 2481 views | WeWereZombies |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:13 - Oct 29 by Herbivore |
Not sure you can call it a great tackle when he gets nowhere near the ball or the man. |
Edmundson, as Frimley stated, looked to have got a stud (or two) on the ball. Not a noticeable change of direction for the ball afterwards but the touch looked to be there. I think both players were moving too quickly to have any premeditated intentions of taking a player out or simulation. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:28 - Oct 29 with 2472 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 21:31 - Oct 28 by redrickstuhaart |
Because typically refs fall for it. It's not a criticism of side or player. |
From lower north it was hard to tell but right after I turned to my mate and said, "Heart in mouth moment there."
Not sure why Herbs is struggling with this. It looked like a pen/red in the moment, it subsequently looks like a dive on slowed down TV replays.
If something looks like a pen/red in the moment and it's not given then you feel/are fortunate, regardless of what you find out after the match.
On a related note I thought Edmundson struggled quite a lot today, albeit he was up against a quick, powerful chap. And the attempt at the tackle there was a bit daft in reality. Asking for trouble. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:29 - Oct 29 with 2471 views | jasondozzell |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:19 - Oct 29 by tractorboy1978 |
No, it wasn't a good tackle at all. I think we were fortunate in the sense Fridge got caught out and put in a last ditch tackle from behind that 9/10 the ref gives as a foul. I'm not entirely convinced it was a dive from the way he went down. Even the slightest brush at that pace is enough to send someone down. Not sure the video is too conclusive either way.
They were a bit embarrassing at times yesterday but some of Fridge's defending was borderline. There were a couple of times in the second half when he had a handful of Waine's shirt right in front of the lino on the NS side. |
Agree it was borderline but thought more often than not Fridge came out on the right side. Made some excellent challenges. |  | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 10:27 - Oct 29 with 2437 views | azuremerlangus |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:28 - Oct 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
From lower north it was hard to tell but right after I turned to my mate and said, "Heart in mouth moment there."
Not sure why Herbs is struggling with this. It looked like a pen/red in the moment, it subsequently looks like a dive on slowed down TV replays.
If something looks like a pen/red in the moment and it's not given then you feel/are fortunate, regardless of what you find out after the match.
On a related note I thought Edmundson struggled quite a lot today, albeit he was up against a quick, powerful chap. And the attempt at the tackle there was a bit daft in reality. Asking for trouble. |
Good summary of the thread’s point.
We were lucky the ref had the best angle for what is was in real time rather than slo-mo.
Or he got the decision right by luck more than judgement! [Post edited 29 Oct 2023 10:33]
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 10:33 - Oct 29 with 2409 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:22 - Oct 29 by WeWereZombies |
Edmundson, as Frimley stated, looked to have got a stud (or two) on the ball. Not a noticeable change of direction for the ball afterwards but the touch looked to be there. I think both players were moving too quickly to have any premeditated intentions of taking a player out or simulation. |
It var was used. It would have probably been looked at for about 4 minutes. It was so tight.
I still can't believe it wasn't given. That ref gave freekicks if you dared to win the ball back in the opponents half so how he didn't give that I dunno. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:07 - Oct 29 with 2396 views | bluestandard |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 10:33 - Oct 29 by FrimleyBlue |
It var was used. It would have probably been looked at for about 4 minutes. It was so tight.
I still can't believe it wasn't given. That ref gave freekicks if you dared to win the ball back in the opponents half so how he didn't give that I dunno. |
I was thinking about the outcome if VAR had been involved. It would have had no problem with the penalty aspect (outside the area) and the red card aspect (covering defenders), which are the only things it can review, so maybe it would have been quite quick? | | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:10 - Oct 29 with 2393 views | Bent_double |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 09:28 - Oct 29 by The_Flashing_Smile |
From lower north it was hard to tell but right after I turned to my mate and said, "Heart in mouth moment there."
Not sure why Herbs is struggling with this. It looked like a pen/red in the moment, it subsequently looks like a dive on slowed down TV replays.
If something looks like a pen/red in the moment and it's not given then you feel/are fortunate, regardless of what you find out after the match.
On a related note I thought Edmundson struggled quite a lot today, albeit he was up against a quick, powerful chap. And the attempt at the tackle there was a bit daft in reality. Asking for trouble. |
I agree, and that's just from listening to TownTV commentary.
Also, watching the ITV highlights yesterday evening, there were a couple of almost identical incidents (Champ or L1, can't remember) where the refs gave the pen, so yes, we got away with that one. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:46 - Oct 29 with 2369 views | bluelagos |
Looks like a pen to me. Not sure why people are saying he dived when his leg was clearly clipped.
So yep, we got away with one.
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:54 - Oct 29 with 2351 views | benrhyddingblue |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:46 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
Looks like a pen to me. Not sure why people are saying he dived when his leg was clearly clipped.
So yep, we got away with one.
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These decisions even themselves out over a season - Hutchinson at Huddersfield for example! Also , looking at that vid all the way through, it seems to indicate that Edmundson got a touch on the ball first. Neither did it change the game - they were still winning 1.0 at that point. What changed the game was their comic own goal in first half stoppage time. | | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:00 - Oct 29 with 2328 views | bluelagos |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:54 - Oct 29 by benrhyddingblue |
These decisions even themselves out over a season - Hutchinson at Huddersfield for example! Also , looking at that vid all the way through, it seems to indicate that Edmundson got a touch on the ball first. Neither did it change the game - they were still winning 1.0 at that point. What changed the game was their comic own goal in first half stoppage time. |
Think if you go 2 up of course it changes the game.
Agree 100% these things even up, absolutely. But I'd still be spitting feathers if I was a Plymouth fan. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:05 - Oct 29 with 2303 views | DanTheMan |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:46 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
Looks like a pen to me. Not sure why people are saying he dived when his leg was clearly clipped.
So yep, we got away with one.
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That's what I thought, he's touched him very lightly and honestly I think Bundu going down like he has has made it seem like a dive. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:14 - Oct 29 with 2277 views | bluelagos |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:05 - Oct 29 by DanTheMan |
That's what I thought, he's touched him very lightly and honestly I think Bundu going down like he has has made it seem like a dive. |
From behind can see why people are saying he dived. Shows just how hard the refs job is - even the VAR would have struggled - but that angle is pretty conclusive to my eyes.
Also blue tinted glasses may be at play - we all wear 'em - some with stronger tints than others! | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:16 - Oct 29 with 2272 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:14 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
From behind can see why people are saying he dived. Shows just how hard the refs job is - even the VAR would have struggled - but that angle is pretty conclusive to my eyes.
Also blue tinted glasses may be at play - we all wear 'em - some with stronger tints than others! |
Just a thought but .... already on his way down before (minimal) contact? |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:24 - Oct 29 with 2248 views | Herbivore |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 11:46 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
Looks like a pen to me. Not sure why people are saying he dived when his leg was clearly clipped.
So yep, we got away with one.
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He's already on his way down at that point and has stuck his back leg out so any contact is initiated by him, that's why freeze frames are rarely helpful. Watch the replay on full and there's no contact until he's already throwing himself over and sticking his back leg out. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:25 - Oct 29 with 2239 views | DJR |
More generally, I think some of our defensive positioning was poor yesterday, enabling Plymouth to get ahead of the man nearest to them. Indeed, there were several occasions where Edmundson got the wrong side of his man, but managed to retrieve the situation, but he was not the only one to do so.
There were also occasions where the defender over-committed, rather than holding up his man. Leif Davis did this on a couple of occasions near the end, the second of which led to the goal.
This isn't meant as criticism, but an observation, and I am sure McKenna will work on this, and it has to be accepted that Plymouth were a very good footballing team, who worked the space well. [Post edited 29 Oct 2023 12:28]
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:26 - Oct 29 with 2229 views | Herbivore |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:16 - Oct 29 by You_Bloo_Right |
Just a thought but .... already on his way down before (minimal) contact? |
Exactly this. The clip is more useful than a carefully selected freeze frame. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:30 - Oct 29 with 2199 views | DanTheMan |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:26 - Oct 29 by Herbivore |
Exactly this. The clip is more useful than a carefully selected freeze frame. |
What's the letter of the law here? You're right in that he's already going down in that clip when the contact is made and is definitely playing for it but there's contact all the same, however minimal. Honestly don't know what the correct answer is. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:33 - Oct 29 with 2181 views | Herbivore |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:30 - Oct 29 by DanTheMan |
What's the letter of the law here? You're right in that he's already going down in that clip when the contact is made and is definitely playing for it but there's contact all the same, however minimal. Honestly don't know what the correct answer is. |
Football is a contact sport, contact alone does not make it a foul. Edmundson doesn't impede him and if he stays on his feet there's no contact anyway, the contact happens because he dives and throws his foot backwards to try and make it look like a foul. The only luck is that the ref was so poor he could have fell for it, and there's an element of luck in their player not getting a yellow for simulation. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:34 - Oct 29 with 2176 views | bluelagos |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:25 - Oct 29 by DJR |
More generally, I think some of our defensive positioning was poor yesterday, enabling Plymouth to get ahead of the man nearest to them. Indeed, there were several occasions where Edmundson got the wrong side of his man, but managed to retrieve the situation, but he was not the only one to do so.
There were also occasions where the defender over-committed, rather than holding up his man. Leif Davis did this on a couple of occasions near the end, the second of which led to the goal.
This isn't meant as criticism, but an observation, and I am sure McKenna will work on this, and it has to be accepted that Plymouth were a very good footballing team, who worked the space well. [Post edited 29 Oct 2023 12:28]
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I thought Edmundson was exposed a number of times yesterday, really didn't have a good game for me.
But like anyone, he'll learn / improve, especially with KM doing the coaching.
The best bit (aside from the fan ovation for the keeper - loved that) was after Leif messed up - he still called for the ball and received it seconds later - and then set up a goal. Would have been easy for him not to show for the ball after an error - but he stood tall - really chuffed for him. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:36 - Oct 29 with 2161 views | benrhyddingblue |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:00 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
Think if you go 2 up of course it changes the game.
Agree 100% these things even up, absolutely. But I'd still be spitting feathers if I was a Plymouth fan. |
They still have to score the ‘penalty’ (It wouldn’t have surprised me for Hladky to save it, the current form he is in); but I take you point about being two nil up, although we’ve twice come back from 2.0 this season | | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:38 - Oct 29 with 2158 views | bluelagos |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:36 - Oct 29 by benrhyddingblue |
They still have to score the ‘penalty’ (It wouldn’t have surprised me for Hladky to save it, the current form he is in); but I take you point about being two nil up, although we’ve twice come back from 2.0 this season |
Hladky is on it isn't he! Loving the way he came back from a dodgy spell a while back. Hats off to the guy. | |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:46 - Oct 29 with 2132 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:34 - Oct 29 by bluelagos |
I thought Edmundson was exposed a number of times yesterday, really didn't have a good game for me.
But like anyone, he'll learn / improve, especially with KM doing the coaching.
The best bit (aside from the fan ovation for the keeper - loved that) was after Leif messed up - he still called for the ball and received it seconds later - and then set up a goal. Would have been easy for him not to show for the ball after an error - but he stood tall - really chuffed for him. |
I pointed this out on my Leif / Morsy thread…. For both instances, Morsy was the first to speak to Leif… to tell him off for the mistake, then congratulate him for the assist. |  |
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| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 13:10 - Oct 29 with 2082 views | DJR |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:46 - Oct 29 by ITFC_Forever |
I pointed this out on my Leif / Morsy thread…. For both instances, Morsy was the first to speak to Leif… to tell him off for the mistake, then congratulate him for the assist. |
Leif is probably the player who deserves the least criticism. His defending has improved immeasurably since he started, and despite charging up and down the left side, it is always him who has to go that extra distance to take corners on the right side.
His fitness is incredible, and it would be interesting to note the distance he travels in a game, relative to others in the team and others in other teams. | | | |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 13:17 - Oct 29 with 2067 views | Vegtablue |
| Did Edmundson get lucky? on 12:30 - Oct 29 by DanTheMan |
What's the letter of the law here? You're right in that he's already going down in that clip when the contact is made and is definitely playing for it but there's contact all the same, however minimal. Honestly don't know what the correct answer is. |
Good clip Dan. It causes me to recall the Hutchinson non-penalty against Huddersfield to be honest, when he surged in a diagonal direction at the last moment to place his right hip in front of the covering Thomas. The consensus in that incident was stonewall penalty: Thomas needed to allow for any erratic movement from the player marginally ahead of him, irrespective of whether it was necessary to control of protect the ball.
In this clip, does Bundu's foot turn sideways because he's leaving it for contact, because of his own loss of balance, because his ankle is clipped by Fridge the moment his foot tries to lift off the ground (before the clear contact afterwards on the foot), or because he's attempting to shape up against the goalkeeper in an elaborate movement? The only certainty is that there's contact with the player and Fridge doesn't win the ball. I'm sure we'd be collectively miffed if we were on the receiving end, as much as the true reason for the detectable contact looks inconclusive to me.
In real time from my position, it looked a foul that you had to give on the balance of probabilities, just short of or just over the line of the penalty box. My questions were inside or outside and is it a red, rather than is it a foul. Schumacher and McKenna saw the incident similarly to each other in real time. McKenna thought FK and yellow. Schumacher didn't know if it was a FK or penalty and wasn't certain on the colour of the card, saying both he was the 'last man' and there were two 'covering defenders'. It's a clear shot on goal if Bundu doesn't take another touch, but one more and Williams is between him and the goalie IMO.
If you changed the ref and linesmen 100 times, would penalty+yellow or FK+yellow be the modal outcome? I'm inclined to believe a foul and a yellow, given refs typically try to avoid red cards in these incidents and the two Ipswich players are at the scene as Bundu's backside hits the deck, even if they wouldn't have denied an immediate shot. | | | |
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