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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions 22:14 - Jan 14 with 3055 viewsle2blue

Forest is not surprising, given the insane spending they've had. I'm sure the only winners in all of this are the lawyers, and maybe Luton who will probably end up staying up with ease.

Oh and Man City who of course have the best lawyers in the land.

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:17 - Jan 14 with 2982 viewsElderGrizzly

Aren’t Man City appealing more charges than Trump at the moment?
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:18 - Jan 14 with 2956 viewsFrimleyBlue

Simple resolution

Relegate 5 sides and make top 4 championship auto promotion.

Waka waka eh eh
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:22 - Jan 14 with 2955 viewsle2blue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:17 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly

Aren’t Man City appealing more charges than Trump at the moment?


It's currently Man City 115 v Trump 91. City only go big, or massive as they were back in the day.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 01:51 - Jan 15 with 2678 viewsIllinoisblue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:17 - Jan 14 by ElderGrizzly

Aren’t Man City appealing more charges than Trump at the moment?


Scandal upon scandal that Man City have gone unpunished for so long.

62 - 78 - 81
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 09:28 - Jan 15 with 2229 viewsJimmyJazz

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 01:51 - Jan 15 by Illinoisblue

Scandal upon scandal that Man City have gone unpunished for so long.


It's not just that. Man City flaunted FFP by such a large degree, that now everyone else is paying the price by either being hamstrung by FFP regulations and looking to abide by them or being fined for smaller breaches. Man City in the meantime have established themselves and are now laughing as FFP really just protects the richer clubs from being usurped by smaller clubs with wealthy owners

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:28 - Jan 15 with 1976 viewsgringoblue

I don't really understand Forest's defence of the PSR charge.

"Forest’s defence is expected to be based around their decision to delay the sale of Brennan Johnson to ensure they received the highest price possible for the academy graduate, whose fee would, in PSR terms, be deemed pure profit. The forward was sold on deadline day last September for £47.5m to Tottenham, two months after the cut-off point for complying with PSR. If Forest had sold Johnson before 30 June, the club believe they would have received a lower fee. Although that would have put them the right side of the allowed losses, they are expected to argue it was better for their long-term health to maximise their profit and make them more sustainable."

"At the start of last summer Forest received a number of written offers of about £30m for Johnson but knew they could get more if they bided their time."

Well, maybe they should have sold him for the best they could get prior to the deadline?! Tough tits, deal with the consequences.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:44 - Jan 15 with 1888 viewsSouthfieldsBlue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:28 - Jan 15 by gringoblue

I don't really understand Forest's defence of the PSR charge.

"Forest’s defence is expected to be based around their decision to delay the sale of Brennan Johnson to ensure they received the highest price possible for the academy graduate, whose fee would, in PSR terms, be deemed pure profit. The forward was sold on deadline day last September for £47.5m to Tottenham, two months after the cut-off point for complying with PSR. If Forest had sold Johnson before 30 June, the club believe they would have received a lower fee. Although that would have put them the right side of the allowed losses, they are expected to argue it was better for their long-term health to maximise their profit and make them more sustainable."

"At the start of last summer Forest received a number of written offers of about £30m for Johnson but knew they could get more if they bided their time."

Well, maybe they should have sold him for the best they could get prior to the deadline?! Tough tits, deal with the consequences.


That does just seem to be an admission of guilt. "We could have complied, but didn't because we wanted more money."
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:58 - Jan 15 with 1793 viewsrickw

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:28 - Jan 15 by gringoblue

I don't really understand Forest's defence of the PSR charge.

"Forest’s defence is expected to be based around their decision to delay the sale of Brennan Johnson to ensure they received the highest price possible for the academy graduate, whose fee would, in PSR terms, be deemed pure profit. The forward was sold on deadline day last September for £47.5m to Tottenham, two months after the cut-off point for complying with PSR. If Forest had sold Johnson before 30 June, the club believe they would have received a lower fee. Although that would have put them the right side of the allowed losses, they are expected to argue it was better for their long-term health to maximise their profit and make them more sustainable."

"At the start of last summer Forest received a number of written offers of about £30m for Johnson but knew they could get more if they bided their time."

Well, maybe they should have sold him for the best they could get prior to the deadline?! Tough tits, deal with the consequences.


It does seem daft to have the cut off point for this in the middle of a transfer window!

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:04 - Jan 15 with 1754 viewsChurchman

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:28 - Jan 15 by gringoblue

I don't really understand Forest's defence of the PSR charge.

"Forest’s defence is expected to be based around their decision to delay the sale of Brennan Johnson to ensure they received the highest price possible for the academy graduate, whose fee would, in PSR terms, be deemed pure profit. The forward was sold on deadline day last September for £47.5m to Tottenham, two months after the cut-off point for complying with PSR. If Forest had sold Johnson before 30 June, the club believe they would have received a lower fee. Although that would have put them the right side of the allowed losses, they are expected to argue it was better for their long-term health to maximise their profit and make them more sustainable."

"At the start of last summer Forest received a number of written offers of about £30m for Johnson but knew they could get more if they bided their time."

Well, maybe they should have sold him for the best they could get prior to the deadline?! Tough tits, deal with the consequences.


That’s a totally ridiculous defence. Or more correctly, no defence. Yep, deal with the consequences.

I suggest a fine of £17.5m which is the difference between selling before June and when they did. A further fine of £50m for breaking the rules, another £50m for being annoying and relegated two divisions with no parachute payments as a warning to others.

The parachute payments they should have got can be shared amongst all English football league clubs whose names begin with an ‘I’.

The fines to be redirected to Man City to help them fight the charges against them as they are owned by very rich and probably nasty people who it’s best not to upset.

Seems fair to me!
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:14 - Jan 15 with 1704 viewsZx1988

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:58 - Jan 15 by rickw

It does seem daft to have the cut off point for this in the middle of a transfer window!


It almost feels as if it's designed to allow the bigger clubs to use the PSR deadline as leverage to get smaller clubs to sell them their talent on the cheap.

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:16 - Jan 15 with 1680 viewsMattinLondon

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 01:51 - Jan 15 by Illinoisblue

Scandal upon scandal that Man City have gone unpunished for so long.


That does seem to be the case. I do think that their achievements will be tainted with most football fans convinced of their guilt. Man City fans probably don’t care, but if at some time they are found guilty, will immerse themselves in various theories that the elite clubs are after them. Conveniently forgetting that they are part of the elite.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:19 - Jan 15 with 1661 viewspointofblue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:14 - Jan 15 by Zx1988

It almost feels as if it's designed to allow the bigger clubs to use the PSR deadline as leverage to get smaller clubs to sell them their talent on the cheap.


Though the argument is Forest shouldn't have spent money they didn't have. What if Johnson had picked up a serious injury, which would have resulted in the transfer falling through?

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:31 - Jan 15 with 1606 viewsTrequartista

In the old days, you could just pay a fine, four years after your overspending had secured you promotion

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44980113
[Post edited 15 Jan 17:32]

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:40 - Jan 15 with 1571 viewsberkstractorboy

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:19 - Jan 15 by pointofblue

Though the argument is Forest shouldn't have spent money they didn't have. What if Johnson had picked up a serious injury, which would have resulted in the transfer falling through?


Excactly. And by flouting the deadline that other clubs have had to meet, Forest can try to earn more more to get themselves ahead of the competition complying to the deadline. I don't care how good your lawyer is that is just not a defence unless you can argue the PSR deadline should be aligned to end transfer window. There might be very good reasons why it isn't and is 30th June. Fact is, break the rules, take the risk and if you get found out then take the punishment.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:51 - Jan 15 with 1532 viewspointofblue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:40 - Jan 15 by berkstractorboy

Excactly. And by flouting the deadline that other clubs have had to meet, Forest can try to earn more more to get themselves ahead of the competition complying to the deadline. I don't care how good your lawyer is that is just not a defence unless you can argue the PSR deadline should be aligned to end transfer window. There might be very good reasons why it isn't and is 30th June. Fact is, break the rules, take the risk and if you get found out then take the punishment.


I think the new season 'starts' on 1st July, and contracts normally run until then, so that's why it's the cut off date.

Poll: Who would you play at right centre back on Saturday?

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:54 - Jan 15 with 1517 viewsPinewoodblue

“Both have prepared mitigation & will launch robust defences”

Mitigation usually means accepting the charges and trying to reduce any penalty while defence implied you are innocent.

Sounds a bit like a motorist trying to get out of a speeding ticket because they were late for work.


What Everton seem to be suggesting is that they have been penalised already but you don’t wipe the sheet clean it is losses over a three season period so any one season is taken into account three years running.

Potentially a good season to gain promotion as could be two teams in next years EPL not there on merit.
[Post edited 15 Jan 18:06]

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:59 - Jan 15 with 1476 viewsredrickstuhaart

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 16:28 - Jan 15 by gringoblue

I don't really understand Forest's defence of the PSR charge.

"Forest’s defence is expected to be based around their decision to delay the sale of Brennan Johnson to ensure they received the highest price possible for the academy graduate, whose fee would, in PSR terms, be deemed pure profit. The forward was sold on deadline day last September for £47.5m to Tottenham, two months after the cut-off point for complying with PSR. If Forest had sold Johnson before 30 June, the club believe they would have received a lower fee. Although that would have put them the right side of the allowed losses, they are expected to argue it was better for their long-term health to maximise their profit and make them more sustainable."

"At the start of last summer Forest received a number of written offers of about £30m for Johnson but knew they could get more if they bided their time."

Well, maybe they should have sold him for the best they could get prior to the deadline?! Tough tits, deal with the consequences.


Defence is that its a technical breach. Would be pretty stupid to create situations where clubs have to firesale to comply with financial sustainability...

Not sure why it is based solely on profit and loss anyway. They are not more sustainable just because they cash in an asset rather than continuing to own it. The bottom line on the balance sheet ought to be the same.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:02 - Jan 15 with 1451 viewspointofblue

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:59 - Jan 15 by redrickstuhaart

Defence is that its a technical breach. Would be pretty stupid to create situations where clubs have to firesale to comply with financial sustainability...

Not sure why it is based solely on profit and loss anyway. They are not more sustainable just because they cash in an asset rather than continuing to own it. The bottom line on the balance sheet ought to be the same.


Because the asset can lose all it's value in a moment in sport - look at Luc Nilis, for example.

Poll: Who would you play at right centre back on Saturday?

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:06 - Jan 15 with 1426 viewsberkstractorboy

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:51 - Jan 15 by pointofblue

I think the new season 'starts' on 1st July, and contracts normally run until then, so that's why it's the cut off date.


Seems like a very reasonable deadline then and Forest don't have a case other than greed.

The other angle now is clubs like Saints, Leeds and Leicester will claim being hard done by due to other clubs cheating of the rules, so really should Forest have offloaded Johnson or other players during the Jan transfer window and instead bought Danilo for c.£20M. If I understand transfermarkt correctly they made a market value loss of c.£50M.

Now if they had to sell in Jan 2023 and not get Danilo could that have saved Leicester (as the 3rd bottom team)?
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:14 - Jan 15 with 1391 viewsExiled2Surrey

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 17:59 - Jan 15 by redrickstuhaart

Defence is that its a technical breach. Would be pretty stupid to create situations where clubs have to firesale to comply with financial sustainability...

Not sure why it is based solely on profit and loss anyway. They are not more sustainable just because they cash in an asset rather than continuing to own it. The bottom line on the balance sheet ought to be the same.


Can’t imagine any club mis-valuing players to get around a balance sheet test. i suspect it would hugely skew to those clubs with top academies and lead to yet more hoarding of players to loan out at inflated book values.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:14 - Jan 15 with 1390 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:02 - Jan 15 by pointofblue

Because the asset can lose all it's value in a moment in sport - look at Luc Nilis, for example.


But top players will be insured - same as many other assets. Otherwise nobody would fork out tens of millions in the event they pick up a career ending injury in first day of training.
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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 18:22 - Jan 15 with 1367 viewsDubtractor

Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:18 - Jan 14 by FrimleyBlue

Simple resolution

Relegate 5 sides and make top 4 championship auto promotion.


Probably your best ever post Frimmers.

More of this please.

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Everton and Forest breaching PSR (FFP) and at risk of points deductions on 22:07 - Jan 15 with 1116 viewsEuropablue

It doesn't seem fair to punish Everton 3 times for the same breach.
1. They already have the 10 point deduction for the overspend.
2. They have now been found in breach again even though the last season they complied, but the previous two seasons are also taken into account.
3. They spent a billion and somehow the team is worse.
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