Forum | I bet Col Who are chuffed about this by Mullet

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this 14:55 - Jun 10 with 14428 views

I can imagine if you’re one of their fans you’re attracted to losers, but imagine doing a staged bit to camera like this in your clubs colours.

Hopefully no far right Town fans would go on camera embarrassing the club like this!

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 08:38 - Jun 11 with 2083 views

StokieBlue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 18:59 - Jun 10 by Europablue

Keep the politics out of the football threads and I will gladly stay out off that cesspool!
Whether you agree with Brexit you have to give Farage credit for that achievement. If you are talking about general elections, his results have been dire not mixed, but his EU results have been good. So it is certainly fair to say he's had mixed results overall.
Stop telling me how to think about other people and show me what they have done or said and let me make my mind up. Until you give a good example, he's not a hate preacher!

What he actually achieved was proving that repeating a lie with no evidence and refusing to retract said lies actually gets you somewhere because enough people are too lazy or too stupid to do their own research to refute the lie.

I'm not surprised to see you defending him after the pages and pages you posted defending Trump and DeSantis, seems you like a certain type of politician and that's fine but let's not try to rewrite the narrative that these people aren't horrible individuals.

SB

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 08:58 - Jun 11 with 2045 views

Europablue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 22:23 - Jun 10 by Herbivore
What a load of boll0cks. Repeating some dodgy tropes you've repeated before all over again and doing the whole "I'm not defending Farage" while writing an essay defending him. Give over, I can see what you are.

You display that you are a political leftist in your profile picture. I'm much less extreme than you I'm sure. I just don't believe in shutting down a debate like you clearly want to.

I'm not defending Farage, just providing counterpoints to your one-sided argument.
I actually don't care about Farage, I went though a phase of hating him. Now I'm indifferent.
The problem is there is a huge minority of people in the UK and across the EU (around 20% I believe) who have the concerns that Farage is the mouthpiece for and we can't afford to ignore them. If people don't have a political voice they get violent.
For the lowest IQ individuals their valid concerns are expressed in racist terms. I tried to explain things away from race. The example I gave was of Cornwall and Devon. The concerns the local people had was displacement, erasure, competition for scant resources, etc. The same is true of people concerned about gentrification in places like Notting Hill, Oakland California, and even parts of Tokyo.

This forum is hopeless. If I try to give some background. I'm accused of waffling or delivering word salad. If I keep my replies short, I'm accused of lacking substance. Those kinds of responses have no value, it's just point scoring in your echo chamber.

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 08:58 - Jun 11 with 2045 views

Whos_blue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 08:19 - Jun 11 by Europablue

The main achievement of Brexit is that it happened at all. The concept of Brexit is only to bring power back to the UK. How that power is wielded is an entirely different matter.
I voted remain because whilst I agree with the concept of having our own sovereignty, there are a huge minority (especially in the political class) who I knew would work hard to water things down and make sure Brexit will never be that successful. It was also more convenient for me to remain as I live in the EU.
I truly believe that Brexit could be very successful if we all pulled in the same direction. We have a toxic individuality in the UK to the point where it's impossible to get anything done. In a way that is good, because we can only make incremental changes or when there is mass consensus on an issue.

Ok. I was kind of hoping for more than the greatest acheivement of brexit was that it happened.
If that's the best we can collectively arrive at, the division and chaos it has created hardly seems worth it does it?

Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness.

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 10:31 - Jun 11 with 1964 views

Swansea_Blue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 08:19 - Jun 11 by Europablue

That's an honest answer, even if (imo) it's not especially fit for the modern world. There are all sorts of benefits to working with other countries, sharing expertise resources and using collective power to achieve more than we could on our own. And that's beyond the obvious initial motivation based around preventing Europe sliding back into conflict.

We operate under rules, regulation and laws still that were developed collaboratively with other states in all sorts of areas of life. A topical example relevant to TWTD is that England are having to operate under UEFA regulations under the upcoming Euros. Brexit is the equivalent of pulling out of that because we didn't pass the regulations ourselves in the UK (although of course we had a hand in making the UEFA regulations, just like we did with EU laws).

I don't think I'll ever understand the sovereignty/'take back control' point. We always had sovereignty. We demonstrated the fact by exercising our sovereignty to leave the EU. And then it comes back to the question 'for what'? Beyond providing what we already knew (that we were a sovereign nation in a partnership) there appear to be no discernable benefits.

The pulling in the same direction argument doesn't hold any water either. Why should people all pull in the same direction? We're not a dictatorship. Brexiteers wanted the UK to take sole control (bar assimilated law), and we did. That control is exerted through the government and parliament and we all know parliament is full of people sitting on tickets representing different views - that's democracy.

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 18:50 - Jun 11 with 1867 views

Mullet

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 07:34 - Jun 11 by Europablue

I don't know where the fascist thing has come from. That video is just a guy in a Col U top shaking hands with Farage. A fascist is someone who shuts down free speech with violence. Farage is absolutely not doing that. He has suffered intimidation with having stuff thrown at him
I never said you should tolerate fascists or even Communists that arrive at the club you support. The thing is you don't seem to be able to identify fascists. So if it is just people saying stuff that you don't like, then you have the right to express your dislike for what they are saying peacefully, but you don't just get to shut them down. The only way you get free speech is by allowing others to have theirs too.

Farage was part of the Nation Front, idolised Enoch Powell, repeated Nazi sentiments from his school years onwards, openly preaches hate and encourages violence. He is a fascist in the mould of Moseley.

Pretending otherwise is totally ignorant or dishonest.

You seem to have spent an awful lot of time defending him (poorly all too often) and don't even live here. Aligning himself with Wetherspoons patrons, football fans and other people is part of his schtick.

It's telling as long as this thread has gone on and you've constantly tried to move the focus away from the OP, you've exposed yourself.

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 18:58 - Jun 11 with 1850 views

GlasgowBlue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 16:17 - Jun 10 by Mullet

I have had beers with people I disagree with politically millions of times, even raving northern soul Tory boy Glassers. One time I think I paid!

He’s not a nazi sympathiser though. Sorry.

I’ve no idea what your mess about Brexit is meant to mean, you just seem to be throwing any old thing in to justify yourself now. You seem to be jumping all over the place to suggest that supporting the same club as someone means we should turn a blind eye to everything else.

I don't remember you paying

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 19:01 - Jun 11 with 1829 views

Mullet

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 18:58 - Jun 11 by GlasgowBlue
I don't remember you paying

That's cos I got you too pissed presumably!

Next pub we are in, my round.

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 19:25 - Jun 11 with 1795 views

GlasgowBlue

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 19:01 - Jun 11 by Mullet
That's cos I got you too pissed presumably! Next pub we are in, my round.

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I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 21:22 - Jun 11 with 1724 views

jontysnut

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 15:37 - Jun 10 by nrb1985
was about to post - those trousers scream "man of the people" and "standing up for the little guy"

He looks like a man who is about to swindle an old lady out of her pension in an early 1970s sit com. The Col U fan simply looks like someone from Colchester.

-1

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 21:37 - Jun 11 with 1706 views

Mercian

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 15:49 - Jun 10 by Europablue
We are all Town fans whether we are far left, far right, or centrists. Even if you think they might be misguided, they are probably decent people that you could sit down and have a beer with and chat about Town.

"Good people, on both sides." I think I remember a far right criminal/ US president saying that a few years back.

[Post edited 11 Jun 2024 21:38]

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 17:48 - Jun 12 with 1593 views

BlueBadger

I bet Col Who are chuffed about this on 22:10 - Jun 10 by Europablue

Thank you for giving some examples. I appreciate it that you did that.

To be clear, I'm not Farage. I'm not that invested in him at all, I don't think I've ever voted for him. I don't need to defend him. I definitely don't have hours to spend thinking about him and writing about him. My main point is that people say things that are clumsy and some people even venture into expressing things that are racist. The thing is you don't solve a problem like racism by ignoring the legitimate concerns that people have because you don't like the way they said it. Taking race out of it. Just look at Cornwall and Devon and all of the outsiders coming in and changing the character of place and pushing house prices up and not being as invested in the community as many of the people who have lived there for years. Of course there is a racist aspect, in general in the UK, but my point is, that isn't all it is. I don't live in England anymore, but people are being pushed out of my home town of Chelmsford by people coming from London, they have changed the character of the place there are a lot more West Ham shirts than Ipswich shirts, that feels like an invasion. Obviously, that is an emotional response and irrational as Chelmsford doesn't belong to Ipswich! It's also difficult to judge whether knife crime has become a problem in Chelmsford because that is a general trend these days, or because it has come from London. It is common connection to make between something bad and something unfamiliar. Sometimes it is rational and sometimes it is irrational and just not true.

Foreigners generally don't integrate especially when not forced to. I'll give you a small case study. I live in Germany. I work a lot and want my kids to learn English as well as German, so I still don't speak German fluently after many years trying and almost a year living here. I don't want to be German anyway. I appreciate that it must be annoying for Germans to see a foreigner who doesn't integrate properly even though I try a bit. It doesn't make you a bad person to want people to speak your language in your country.

I won't address everything on that list. The main note is that that writer doesn't actually know the meaning of racism is because he has just bundled everything in together. I suppose he means he means a list of Xenophobic comments and some unPC comments. Immigrants are not one race. He also bundles in some comments about Muslims. "Farage said he supported Muslim immigrants who “integrate” into society, but not those who are “coming here to take us over”" That comes across as a bit aggressive out of context, but if you haven't heard some Muslim extremists saying that English people aren't welcome on their streets, then you haven't been paying attention or you don't want to believe that there are bad eggs everywhere. Immigration is one thing, but you can't expect people to be tolerant of others who are expressly saying that they want to replace them.
I agree that you can't lump all Muslims in together, there are some upstanding citizens and some dangerous extremists (you could say far right). There are a lot in the middle who are exerting their more conservative culture in areas like Birmingham and pushing for LGBT views not to be taught in some cases. You may or may not agree with their views, but we can't deny that there is an influence there.

His comments about Romanians aren't racist, so maybe the list should be referring to bigoted views. Unfortunately, there is a major group of Romanian organized criminals especially in London often pickpockets. People often associate the only sample of a certain group and generalize out. People often think that English people are lager louts and football hooligans. Obviously, not all of either group are those things, but there are enough of them to create the stereotype. It would be irresponsible for a politician to further those stereotypes. There is no context for that comment, so it's difficult to come to solid conclusion. When you are in the EU you have to treat other EU citizens equally in your country, so you can't determine which people are allowed into your country you have to take the criminally inclined along with the doctors and teachers or whatever. Blaming immigrants for traffic jams was flippant. He was referring to an increase in population that was fueled by immigration, so obviously traffic is only exacerbated by immigration.

The thing about the word for Chinese people or Chinese food. There was a time when that wasn't considered offensive (probably, Chinese people weren't asked for their opinion on that). That was in the 90s as far as I know. There was no racist intent, even if it was insensitive. If he was still saying that in 2014, that seems pretty tone deaf. The concept of "politically correct" is evil, it's actually from the Chinese communists, but the motivation for us when we say PC (admittedly an offensive term), is to be considerate and polite. I personally think the difference is being told how to speak, rather than just being polite out of your own free will and courtesy.

Farage has certainly said some things that you find racist, that doesn't make him a racist. Racism is about intent. If you have offended someone you try to be polite next time.

I would call him a blow hard and insensitive. He's not my cup of tea either, but I won't discount what he is saying just because I don't like the way he is saying it.

I'm aware I've written an essay now. I won't get into it again as I've said enough and people will complain that I have posted too much and too often. I'll have to let you and others have the last word.

The underlying point is whether you like or dislike the messenger, you should still hear the message and addressing legitimate concerns is the way we stop people being radicalized. Farage serves a purpose. I think we have an uncouth messenger who many find odious, because it takes an obstinate boorish man to speak out and be heard when the ruling class don't want the ruled to be heard.

'If you ignore all the racist things that Farage says, does and hangs around with, there's no proof he's racist'.

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