| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 18:43 - Jun 12 with 1688 views | MattinLondon |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 17:16 - Jun 12 by Swansea_Blue |
“Overburden”? Seriously?
Sunak’s personal tax rate for the last declared year was 23% on £2.2m income. Yet employees have to pay 40% on anything over £40k and 45% on anything over £125k. There are all sorts of loopholes to lower the tax burden on the super-rich (and just moderately rich).
I can only assume you’re one of the super rich (which is fine and then your stance would be understandable). Otherwise you’ve been suckered into defending inequality.
You are right about the global competitiveness though. Tax too high relatively compared to other nations and they will just feck off to one of their many other houses in another country. I’m not sure that’s such a bad thing though. [Post edited 12 Jun 2024 17:17]
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I could well be very naive here, but is there any reason why the tax system can’t be modernised and simplified so that such loopholes no longer exist? |  | |  |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 21:41 - Jun 12 with 1596 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 18:43 - Jun 12 by MattinLondon |
I could well be very naive here, but is there any reason why the tax system can’t be modernised and simplified so that such loopholes no longer exist? |
Not sure really. Other than the people who set the rules are also those who tend to benefit from them personally and/or through companies they have interests in. There’s the issue of parity across nations too, as countries are competing for these high worth individuals. |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 22:08 - Jun 12 with 1579 views | WeWereZombies |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 16:53 - Jun 12 by Zapers |
Exactly! So how are you going to legislate what you are suggesting.
Monaco has just reclaimed land from the sea. they have built super expensive luxury apartments and villas on the Island. Prey, who are going to buy/rent these properties.
I promise you they will not stay empty for long.
These tax free havens as you call them rely on VAT. Stop taxing people and they buy yachts, private planes, fleets of cars, expensive apartments etc. I can assure you the Monaco government are awash with money.
Who's the progressive government in this instance. |
The misspelling of 'pray' as 'prey' in this post is strangely apposite... |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 07:32 - Jun 13 with 1501 views | Nutkins_Return |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 18:24 - Jun 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Oh no surely not a whole £5/week!! |
Corrected. It was meant to say a month not a year. So yes that would have a big impact when people are struggling with mortgages and the cost increases of everything (childcare etc). |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 07:39 - Jun 13 with 1488 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 17:37 - Jun 12 by Nutkins_Return |
The greens announcing taxing the rich and then the detail being they consider £50k a year then rich means hey have completely ruined themselves I imagine. If you earn £55k you will be £280 a month worse off and so on. Single parents on that will really struggle to be perfectly honest. People have mortgages that have already gone right up and mortgages are relative to what you earn. Plenty of couple on £50k each have struggled with that. It's really silly to be honest. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 7:30]
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It's £280 a year, just over £20 a month. Most people with an individual salary of £55k would be able to find £20 a month. If a couple on a combined income of £100k are struggling they might want to review their lifestyle choices, £100k a year is a lot of money and more than enough to live comfortably on. |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:14 - Jun 13 with 1438 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 07:32 - Jun 13 by Nutkins_Return |
Corrected. It was meant to say a month not a year. So yes that would have a big impact when people are struggling with mortgages and the cost increases of everything (childcare etc). |
I think you were right the first time. |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:18 - Jun 13 with 1423 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:14 - Jun 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I think you were right the first time. |
Yes, it's £280 a year, not a month: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6ppd6p12k4o
I'm not a million miles away from that particular bracket and whilst my mortgage has gone up massively and I've had to be careful with spending as a result, I could find £20 a month extra in tax without being bankrupt and I'd be happy to pay it if it meant a better country. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:28 - Jun 13 with 1389 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:18 - Jun 13 by Herbivore |
Yes, it's £280 a year, not a month: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6ppd6p12k4o
I'm not a million miles away from that particular bracket and whilst my mortgage has gone up massively and I've had to be careful with spending as a result, I could find £20 a month extra in tax without being bankrupt and I'd be happy to pay it if it meant a better country. |
So you were joking when you said you were a Marxist? |  | | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:31 - Jun 13 with 1378 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:28 - Jun 13 by victorywilhappen |
So you were joking when you said you were a Marxist? |
You do realise that when living in the UK, even Marxists have to earn a living? We don't get to opt out of paying for stuff just because of our political beliefs. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:34 - Jun 13 with 1362 views | Naim1995 |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 14:13 - Jun 12 by victorywilhappen |
Does it matter? |
I'd say so. Nothing in those links show any antisemitism, unless you've fallen for the trap of thinking anything against Israel is antisemitic. | | | |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:43 - Jun 13 with 1341 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:31 - Jun 13 by Herbivore |
You do realise that when living in the UK, even Marxists have to earn a living? We don't get to opt out of paying for stuff just because of our political beliefs. |
That was why last week I made the reference that most on the forum claiming to be very left were 'academic lefties'.
I think we agree. | | | |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:47 - Jun 13 with 1330 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:43 - Jun 13 by victorywilhappen |
That was why last week I made the reference that most on the forum claiming to be very left were 'academic lefties'.
I think we agree. |
I don't think we do actually. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:48 - Jun 13 with 1322 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:47 - Jun 13 by Herbivore |
I don't think we do actually. |
Yes, we do.
Edit-You are not a practicing Marxist but you like the idea. It's easier. But still, wear a label that makes you feel like a revolutionary. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 8:52]
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:49 - Jun 13 with 1319 views | DJR |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 18:43 - Jun 12 by MattinLondon |
I could well be very naive here, but is there any reason why the tax system can’t be modernised and simplified so that such loopholes no longer exist? |
As someone who has drafted tax legislation, my view is that it has become increasingly complex because of a combination of things like
the increasing complexity of the world (eg.the complex and lengthy provisions needed to deal with derivates)
tax breaks (eg, entrepreneurs relief), and
anti-avoidance measures.
And every time a new tax comes along (eg. air passenger duty), there are pages and pages added to what are known as the Orange and Yellow Tax Books.
And tax breaks themselves (eg. reliefs to encourage the film industry) can lead to the need for anti avoidance provisions as accountants and lawyers look for loopholes.
I think Nigel Lawson favoured a simpler tax system with fewer tax breaks, but that hasn't worked out because there are always groups a government will seek to treat a bit more favourably.
Indeed, I am sure most people who own a home, wouldn't want the abolition of the relief that prevents them from paying CGT on their only or main residence, even though that would simplify tax legislation by removing quite a few pages. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 13:58]
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:55 - Jun 13 with 1286 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:34 - Jun 13 by Naim1995 |
I'd say so. Nothing in those links show any antisemitism, unless you've fallen for the trap of thinking anything against Israel is antisemitic. |
Context.
No- 'unless you've fallen for the trap of thinking anything against Israel is antisemitic.'
That wasn't the case in the expolsions, was it? | | | |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:58 - Jun 13 with 1267 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:48 - Jun 13 by victorywilhappen |
Yes, we do.
Edit-You are not a practicing Marxist but you like the idea. It's easier. But still, wear a label that makes you feel like a revolutionary. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 8:52]
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No, we don't. In your head you've created a distinction between what you see as academic lefties and practising lefties but you've not shared your definition of what those categories actually look like in practice. I suspect, but don't know because you haven't elaborated, that I wouldn't agree with your definitions. So no, we don't agree. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:06 - Jun 13 with 1233 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:34 - Jun 13 by Naim1995 |
I'd say so. Nothing in those links show any antisemitism, unless you've fallen for the trap of thinking anything against Israel is antisemitic. |
You don’t think staging a pro-Palestinian demonstration outside Auschwitz isn’t anti semitic? Auschwitz Is one of the most well know sites of the Holocaust took place. You know, the Holocaust where 6 million JEWS were exterminated. Not 6 million Israelis. Not 6 million Zionists. 6 million JEWS. Observant JEWS, Orthodox JEWS, agnostic JEWS, atheist JEWS. By targeting Auschwitz the protesters were target all JEWS for the actions of the Israeli state. That is anti semitic on at least two levels. |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:06 - Jun 13 with 1232 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:58 - Jun 13 by Herbivore |
No, we don't. In your head you've created a distinction between what you see as academic lefties and practising lefties but you've not shared your definition of what those categories actually look like in practice. I suspect, but don't know because you haven't elaborated, that I wouldn't agree with your definitions. So no, we don't agree. |
A few too many assumptions there Herbie.
Should I waste my time engaging with you as you seem to want to fight? Happy to chat when you are less agro. I haven't got the time or want right now. | | | |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:08 - Jun 13 with 1214 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:06 - Jun 13 by victorywilhappen |
A few too many assumptions there Herbie.
Should I waste my time engaging with you as you seem to want to fight? Happy to chat when you are less agro. I haven't got the time or want right now. |
Exactly the cop out I was expecting. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:08 - Jun 13 with 1212 views | EdwardStone |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 08:49 - Jun 13 by DJR |
As someone who has drafted tax legislation, my view is that it has become increasingly complex because of a combination of things like
the increasing complexity of the world (eg.the complex and lengthy provisions needed to deal with derivates)
tax breaks (eg, entrepreneurs relief), and
anti-avoidance measures.
And every time a new tax comes along (eg. air passenger duty), there are pages and pages added to what are known as the Orange and Yellow Tax Books.
And tax breaks themselves (eg. reliefs to encourage the film industry) can lead to the need for anti avoidance provisions as accountants and lawyers look for loopholes.
I think Nigel Lawson favoured a simpler tax system with fewer tax breaks, but that hasn't worked out because there are always groups a government will seek to treat a bit more favourably.
Indeed, I am sure most people who own a home, wouldn't want the abolition of the relief that prevents them from paying CGT on their only or main residence, even though that would simplify tax legislation by removing quite a few pages. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 13:58]
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Interesting reply
Someone once told me that Tax can be simple....or Tax can be fair
It cannot be both |  | | |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:18 - Jun 13 with 1142 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:06 - Jun 13 by GlasgowBlue |
You don’t think staging a pro-Palestinian demonstration outside Auschwitz isn’t anti semitic? Auschwitz Is one of the most well know sites of the Holocaust took place. You know, the Holocaust where 6 million JEWS were exterminated. Not 6 million Israelis. Not 6 million Zionists. 6 million JEWS. Observant JEWS, Orthodox JEWS, agnostic JEWS, atheist JEWS. By targeting Auschwitz the protesters were target all JEWS for the actions of the Israeli state. That is anti semitic on at least two levels. |
Staging a pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli protest outside Auschwitz is clearly antisemitic. I struggle to understand what goes through people's heads that they think that's an acceptable way to protest. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:26 - Jun 13 with 1111 views | victorywilhappen |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:08 - Jun 13 by Herbivore |
Exactly the cop out I was expecting. |
OK - i will humour you.
You wear the title Marxist but its only a label- as you have said because you cannot live your doctrine because of the country you have chosen to live in, you don't practice Marxism- you talk and think about it. You wear the label Herbivire you Maybe also be eating a sausage on a Sunday but maybe not.
I am not saying you are a fake, just maybe stuck on an outdated label you used to like.
You Start throwing arrows around when you are spoken to in what was meant to be a friendly and agreeable manner.
You obviously want a fight today. I am going to stick with Phil's request and not go there.
Enjoy your day. I'm going to Dedham Vale for a walk. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 9:33]
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:36 - Jun 13 with 1099 views | Herbivore |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:26 - Jun 13 by victorywilhappen |
OK - i will humour you.
You wear the title Marxist but its only a label- as you have said because you cannot live your doctrine because of the country you have chosen to live in, you don't practice Marxism- you talk and think about it. You wear the label Herbivire you Maybe also be eating a sausage on a Sunday but maybe not.
I am not saying you are a fake, just maybe stuck on an outdated label you used to like.
You Start throwing arrows around when you are spoken to in what was meant to be a friendly and agreeable manner.
You obviously want a fight today. I am going to stick with Phil's request and not go there.
Enjoy your day. I'm going to Dedham Vale for a walk. [Post edited 13 Jun 2024 9:33]
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So we don't agree, not sure why you insisted that we did. By your definition, even Marx wasn't a Marxist since he also lived in capitalist countries and not under a Marxist regime. Enjoy your walk, hopefully it'll calm you down a bit as you're being very fighty this morning. | |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 09:56 - Jun 13 with 1008 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 16:39 - Jun 12 by Zapers |
It's not difficult is it, Don't overburden wealthy people by taxing them out of the country.
I cannot understand why you find it so difficult to comprehend. It's hardly rocket science. |
Curious use of the word "overburden" there.... |  |
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| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 10:10 - Jun 13 with 968 views | itfcjoe |
| I was thinking about voting Green but.... on 17:16 - Jun 12 by Swansea_Blue |
“Overburden”? Seriously?
Sunak’s personal tax rate for the last declared year was 23% on £2.2m income. Yet employees have to pay 40% on anything over £40k and 45% on anything over £125k. There are all sorts of loopholes to lower the tax burden on the super-rich (and just moderately rich).
I can only assume you’re one of the super rich (which is fine and then your stance would be understandable). Otherwise you’ve been suckered into defending inequality.
You are right about the global competitiveness though. Tax too high relatively compared to other nations and they will just feck off to one of their many other houses in another country. I’m not sure that’s such a bad thing though. [Post edited 12 Jun 2024 17:17]
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And Sunak has a reported wealth of £700m, so there's no way he was only making £2.2m income last year - that's just what was declared in the UK to make his fugure not look too unreasonable.
At 5% returns on what he has it is £35m a year, and if he's not making that with all that money then there is something wrong |  |
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