| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis 14:54 - Jun 15 with 47912 views | burnbudgiesburn |
Greek journo
Whats that? £18.5m?
Looks like a higher level George Hirst so stylistically would have fit but you never know if Towns name is gonna be linked by agents to bump the price or if its genuine. [Post edited 15 Jun 2024 14:57]
|  | | |  |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 13:01 - Jun 17 with 4966 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 12:58 - Jun 17 by J2BLUE |
You replied agreeing with a reply to me 
Fair enough though, objection withdrawn  |
My apologies, I was at work and prioritising TWTD and rushed my reply… |  |
| |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:24 - Jun 17 with 4644 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 12:53 - Jun 17 by NeedhamChris |
Would imagine this was a riposte to xrayspecs, who was a bit more unquivocal than you were. |
And I stand by my OP.
We need at least 10 players, and that will include players signed for less than a couple of million, including some free transfers, of which the OP was so dismissive. Not all of our signings are going to be £10-20m.
Forest are the poster child for splashing the cash a couple of seasons ago when they got promoted to the PL. They signed 23 players including six free transfers and five more costing less than £2m. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:34 - Jun 17 with 4551 views | portmanking |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:24 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
And I stand by my OP.
We need at least 10 players, and that will include players signed for less than a couple of million, including some free transfers, of which the OP was so dismissive. Not all of our signings are going to be £10-20m.
Forest are the poster child for splashing the cash a couple of seasons ago when they got promoted to the PL. They signed 23 players including six free transfers and five more costing less than £2m. |
You conveniently overlooked Forest's £18m capture of Taiwo Awoniyi as a newly promoted club then? Oh, and not to mention Gibbs-White for £29.5m?
Where has anyone said all of our signings will cost £20m? You're the one being wholly unrealistic, since the going rate even for a top-end Champ player is £8m+ these days. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 14:36]
| | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:50 - Jun 17 with 4428 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:34 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
You conveniently overlooked Forest's £18m capture of Taiwo Awoniyi as a newly promoted club then? Oh, and not to mention Gibbs-White for £29.5m?
Where has anyone said all of our signings will cost £20m? You're the one being wholly unrealistic, since the going rate even for a top-end Champ player is £8m+ these days. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 14:36]
|
I clearly stated that Forest in 22/23 are the poster child for big spending when promoted.
I disagreed with the ITID post ("People need to get in their heads we won’t be signing players for 1-2m") and referenced Forest signing 12 players for £2m or less in the season they splashed the cash.
I have separately posted that we need circa 10 players, and I expect us to spend around £60m on fees. Which would be the same average transfer feee per player as Forest.
Forest spent £130m on transfers, the most by any club on promotion to the PL, without having the benefit of being recently in the PL, so no parachute payment nor retaining expensively recruited players, such as Southampton and Leicester this season. Forest's spending got them into FFP problems and a points deduction.
Norwich (<£10m in 2019/20) and Luton (£30m last season) took the money and ran.
Town will clearly be much more ambitious than Norwich and Luton, but I cannot see us going for broke either. Hence why I beleive it will be a mix of transfer record breaking fees and much cheaper additions.
Not sure how that is being unrealistic.
Let's park this for now, we can always revisit once the transfer window has closed. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 14:59]
| | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:01 - Jun 17 with 4303 views | portmanking |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:50 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I clearly stated that Forest in 22/23 are the poster child for big spending when promoted.
I disagreed with the ITID post ("People need to get in their heads we won’t be signing players for 1-2m") and referenced Forest signing 12 players for £2m or less in the season they splashed the cash.
I have separately posted that we need circa 10 players, and I expect us to spend around £60m on fees. Which would be the same average transfer feee per player as Forest.
Forest spent £130m on transfers, the most by any club on promotion to the PL, without having the benefit of being recently in the PL, so no parachute payment nor retaining expensively recruited players, such as Southampton and Leicester this season. Forest's spending got them into FFP problems and a points deduction.
Norwich (<£10m in 2019/20) and Luton (£30m last season) took the money and ran.
Town will clearly be much more ambitious than Norwich and Luton, but I cannot see us going for broke either. Hence why I beleive it will be a mix of transfer record breaking fees and much cheaper additions.
Not sure how that is being unrealistic.
Let's park this for now, we can always revisit once the transfer window has closed. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 14:59]
|
The thing is, we don't need to sign a dozen players for £2m. We've got a nucleus of a squad which needs some stardust sprinkled amongst it, along with a couple of squad options.
I personally don't see us spending £2m on a player. I think we're either spending £10-15m+, free transfers or loans. I just don't think we'll get enough value from someone in the £2m region. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:10 - Jun 17 with 4206 views | oldburian |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:01 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
The thing is, we don't need to sign a dozen players for £2m. We've got a nucleus of a squad which needs some stardust sprinkled amongst it, along with a couple of squad options.
I personally don't see us spending £2m on a player. I think we're either spending £10-15m+, free transfers or loans. I just don't think we'll get enough value from someone in the £2m region. |
That is a very fair assessment of the situation. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:16 - Jun 17 with 4144 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:01 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
The thing is, we don't need to sign a dozen players for £2m. We've got a nucleus of a squad which needs some stardust sprinkled amongst it, along with a couple of squad options.
I personally don't see us spending £2m on a player. I think we're either spending £10-15m+, free transfers or loans. I just don't think we'll get enough value from someone in the £2m region. |
I did not say we needed to sign 12 players under £2m. I disagreed with the OP that we would not be signing players for less than £2m. I believe we will, and need to, as we cannot afford 10 players at £10m+.
Free transfers are included in the under £2m category btw., so at least we are agreeing.
As an aside, loan fees if you are a PL club can run into the millions. Going back to their first season in the PL, Forest reportedly paid loan fees of £4-5m each for Renan Lodi and Chris Wood. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 15:19]
| | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:17 - Jun 17 with 4141 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 14:50 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I clearly stated that Forest in 22/23 are the poster child for big spending when promoted.
I disagreed with the ITID post ("People need to get in their heads we won’t be signing players for 1-2m") and referenced Forest signing 12 players for £2m or less in the season they splashed the cash.
I have separately posted that we need circa 10 players, and I expect us to spend around £60m on fees. Which would be the same average transfer feee per player as Forest.
Forest spent £130m on transfers, the most by any club on promotion to the PL, without having the benefit of being recently in the PL, so no parachute payment nor retaining expensively recruited players, such as Southampton and Leicester this season. Forest's spending got them into FFP problems and a points deduction.
Norwich (<£10m in 2019/20) and Luton (£30m last season) took the money and ran.
Town will clearly be much more ambitious than Norwich and Luton, but I cannot see us going for broke either. Hence why I beleive it will be a mix of transfer record breaking fees and much cheaper additions.
Not sure how that is being unrealistic.
Let's park this for now, we can always revisit once the transfer window has closed. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 14:59]
|
Undoubtedly we need to fill out the squad a bit and the fact is these are all opinions. Stating someone is “wrong” when you nor I have no real idea is probably a bit strong.
In my opinion the going rate for a premier league player that’s fits the profile we usually look at is 15-20m. (My belief is many supporters haven’t grasped this yet) That doesn’t mean we won’t sign a) free transfers b) loans c) players under 10m.
I suspect if we do sign players in the 1-2m bracket that you envisage, it maybe a teenager (one for the future type) | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:32 - Jun 17 with 4054 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:17 - Jun 17 by ipswichtillidie |
Undoubtedly we need to fill out the squad a bit and the fact is these are all opinions. Stating someone is “wrong” when you nor I have no real idea is probably a bit strong.
In my opinion the going rate for a premier league player that’s fits the profile we usually look at is 15-20m. (My belief is many supporters haven’t grasped this yet) That doesn’t mean we won’t sign a) free transfers b) loans c) players under 10m.
I suspect if we do sign players in the 1-2m bracket that you envisage, it maybe a teenager (one for the future type) |
I could have worded my OP better, so apologies if this landed the wrong way.
If you look at what other clubs have done in the same position as us, then you will see a mixture of transfer fees, including freebies. Sessegnon would be a great addition and possibly Tssananga (sp?), both at Spurs. Plus experienced pros toward the end of their career. Someone like Ashley Young at Everton springs to mind, who can add PL experience to the squad. The role that Keogh and Aluko have filled in last two seasons.
We will likely go with three senior keepers this season, we are not going to spend much, if anything on the third keeper.
Someone like Sam Gallagher could come in as a number 9, alongside an expensive upgrade and Hirst, with AAH going out on loan.
We cannot afford to upgrade every player nor position, so some smart transfer dealing is needed and that is not just at the marquee end of the transfer market.
Next season will be all hands to the deck and not a place for young projects. If we do sign players for the future, then I hope that we send them out on loan. Signing that type of player should not be our priority this summer. there is so much more that we need to get right. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 16:47 - Jun 17 with 3823 views | DinDjarin |
Brighton have not been afraid to splash cash on the right aged talent and if we pull this off, who knows, could have a 50+ million player on our books in a season or two |  | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 17:03 - Jun 17 with 3724 views | Poultman |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 11:44 - Jun 17 by PhilTWTD |
I'm no expert but amortisation would be over the length of the contract, I assume from my scant knowledge of amortisation in general. So I'd say yes if we sign him on a five-year deal. |
This is correct as I understand it | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 17:16 - Jun 17 with 3667 views | portitfcman |
The right age, skill set and experience. Kieron would make him even better. He'll do for me! | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:26 - Jun 17 with 3409 views | NeedhamChris |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 15:16 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I did not say we needed to sign 12 players under £2m. I disagreed with the OP that we would not be signing players for less than £2m. I believe we will, and need to, as we cannot afford 10 players at £10m+.
Free transfers are included in the under £2m category btw., so at least we are agreeing.
As an aside, loan fees if you are a PL club can run into the millions. Going back to their first season in the PL, Forest reportedly paid loan fees of £4-5m each for Renan Lodi and Chris Wood. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 15:19]
|
I think it's this statement that is more relevant.
"We also cannot afford to spend £20m+ on a single player, which is why we have gone cold on Omari."
We shall see what happens this window though, so will enjoy the ride! | |
| |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:26 - Jun 17 with 3415 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 16:47 - Jun 17 by DinDjarin |
Brighton have not been afraid to splash cash on the right aged talent and if we pull this off, who knows, could have a 50+ million player on our books in a season or two |
They have, and I would agree that it is an important part of player trading. But IIRC that is something they have done after getting established in the PL. In year one, that is not your focus.
BHA has also become a bit of a hoarder of young talent. They had 12 players out on loan at EFL clubs, Rangers, Standard Liege etc. last season, including JS with us. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:57 - Jun 17 with 3291 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:26 - Jun 17 by NeedhamChris |
I think it's this statement that is more relevant.
"We also cannot afford to spend £20m+ on a single player, which is why we have gone cold on Omari."
We shall see what happens this window though, so will enjoy the ride! |
I believe it is both relevant and true. £20m would be about a third of our total transfer spend this summer.
We were offered Omari last season for £10m. He then had a stellar end to the season, and now Chelsea want £30m, so at that price we have gone cold on the deal. Not impossible that we come back to this one, but only if Chelsea drop the initial fee to a level we would consider reasonable. We know they need to sell before the end of the month, so hoping a deal can be done.
A significant proportion of the £18m we offered for Ioannadis was add-ons and would be mainly linked to us staying in the PL The add-ons are not guaranteed, which is why Panathanaikos turned our offer down.
I am sure MA will be ambitious in his transfer dealings this summer but will not cripple us by over-spending. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:10 - Jun 17 with 3201 views | portmanking |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:57 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I believe it is both relevant and true. £20m would be about a third of our total transfer spend this summer.
We were offered Omari last season for £10m. He then had a stellar end to the season, and now Chelsea want £30m, so at that price we have gone cold on the deal. Not impossible that we come back to this one, but only if Chelsea drop the initial fee to a level we would consider reasonable. We know they need to sell before the end of the month, so hoping a deal can be done.
A significant proportion of the £18m we offered for Ioannadis was add-ons and would be mainly linked to us staying in the PL The add-ons are not guaranteed, which is why Panathanaikos turned our offer down.
I am sure MA will be ambitious in his transfer dealings this summer but will not cripple us by over-spending. |
We'll be spending more than £60m this season. Everything I hear says it'll be nearer the £90m mark. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:11 - Jun 17 with 3200 views | Coastalblue |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:57 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I believe it is both relevant and true. £20m would be about a third of our total transfer spend this summer.
We were offered Omari last season for £10m. He then had a stellar end to the season, and now Chelsea want £30m, so at that price we have gone cold on the deal. Not impossible that we come back to this one, but only if Chelsea drop the initial fee to a level we would consider reasonable. We know they need to sell before the end of the month, so hoping a deal can be done.
A significant proportion of the £18m we offered for Ioannadis was add-ons and would be mainly linked to us staying in the PL The add-ons are not guaranteed, which is why Panathanaikos turned our offer down.
I am sure MA will be ambitious in his transfer dealings this summer but will not cripple us by over-spending. |
It's also entirely possible that we just think that's too much money for Omari, rather than not being prepared to spend that much.
You're right, we have a finite amount to spend and have to make it cover what we want, however, I do think we'll spend more than 60M and I also think we could see one or two in the 20M range. That will, as you say, be supported by free transfers and loans. |  |
| |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:29 - Jun 17 with 3078 views | Vegtablue |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 18:57 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I believe it is both relevant and true. £20m would be about a third of our total transfer spend this summer.
We were offered Omari last season for £10m. He then had a stellar end to the season, and now Chelsea want £30m, so at that price we have gone cold on the deal. Not impossible that we come back to this one, but only if Chelsea drop the initial fee to a level we would consider reasonable. We know they need to sell before the end of the month, so hoping a deal can be done.
A significant proportion of the £18m we offered for Ioannadis was add-ons and would be mainly linked to us staying in the PL The add-ons are not guaranteed, which is why Panathanaikos turned our offer down.
I am sure MA will be ambitious in his transfer dealings this summer but will not cripple us by over-spending. |
Two minor points from me. Firstly, as mentioned by others above, £20M is about a third of your predicted transfer budget, not necessarily ours. Clubs to have spent £90M-£165M on transfers in their first season recently-ish: Leeds, Burnley, Wolves, Villa, and Forest. This may be an incomplete list, it includes both windows and refers to net transfer spend. I don't see our budget range as clearly and tightly as you do right now. I would only be surprised if we're below £50M or above £100M.
Secondly, I'm not sure it's clear we've been turned down only because the £18.5M bid is made up of too many add-ons. I haven't read all the reports on this but did hear Panathinaikos were targeting €25-€30M, so it's possible we've been rejected on both counts. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:29 - Jun 17 with 3078 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:10 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
We'll be spending more than £60m this season. Everything I hear says it'll be nearer the £90m mark. |
Who’d have thought you might know what you’re talking about…. Hmmmmm | |
| |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:29 - Jun 17 with 3073 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:10 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
We'll be spending more than £60m this season. Everything I hear says it'll be nearer the £90m mark. |
Even if that is correct, there remains an upper limit on how much you would spend on one player. £20m would be more than a quarter of the total budget. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:31 - Jun 17 with 3055 views | portmanking |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:29 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
Even if that is correct, there remains an upper limit on how much you would spend on one player. £20m would be more than a quarter of the total budget. |
You're forgetting with amortisation, a £20m player only costs £5m across a four-year contract. In essence, a £20m player would only cost us £5m in 2024-25 P&S. When you start to think of it in those terms, it's less scary. Especially when you're buying players with genuine resale value even if we go down. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:32 - Jun 17 with 3049 views | xrayspecs |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:11 - Jun 17 by Coastalblue |
It's also entirely possible that we just think that's too much money for Omari, rather than not being prepared to spend that much.
You're right, we have a finite amount to spend and have to make it cover what we want, however, I do think we'll spend more than 60M and I also think we could see one or two in the 20M range. That will, as you say, be supported by free transfers and loans. |
I am sure that is part of the discussion, Omari has one season in senior football behind him and as much as we all want to believe he is going to be a star, there will be a limit to how much we would pay for him. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:36 - Jun 17 with 2993 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:32 - Jun 17 by xrayspecs |
I am sure that is part of the discussion, Omari has one season in senior football behind him and as much as we all want to believe he is going to be a star, there will be a limit to how much we would pay for him. |
Also Chelsea are one of those clubs that may well have to recoup some fees due to their excessive spending. The June 30th date will be an interesting one for certain clubs, Chelsea one of them. | |
| |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:43 - Jun 17 with 2906 views | Vegtablue |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:31 - Jun 17 by portmanking |
You're forgetting with amortisation, a £20m player only costs £5m across a four-year contract. In essence, a £20m player would only cost us £5m in 2024-25 P&S. When you start to think of it in those terms, it's less scary. Especially when you're buying players with genuine resale value even if we go down. |
It remains fraught with danger at a particular spending level mind, in the event we follow this season with a period in the Championship, and if those signed lose much of their value while here. Optimistic and full of beans as we rightly are, that bleak combo isn't an unheard-of scenario. | | | |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 20:09 - Jun 17 with 2750 views | portmanking |
| Ipswich have €22m bid turned down - Fotis Ioannidis on 19:43 - Jun 17 by Vegtablue |
It remains fraught with danger at a particular spending level mind, in the event we follow this season with a period in the Championship, and if those signed lose much of their value while here. Optimistic and full of beans as we rightly are, that bleak combo isn't an unheard-of scenario. |
It's why we're shopping in the £15m+ basket rather than the £30m. I think most in that region tend to retain their value despite relegation. That's because the benchmark price for a good Champ player is now £8m+, so any half decent player that drops down after at least 12 months at PL level is worth eight figures from the get-go.
I don't doubt it's still a financial minefield, but there ARE options to mitigate losses in the event of relegation. Ultimately, our goal HAS to be to improve our squad's overall value, as it's pitifully low compared with all PL squads (obviously a reflection of how fast we've moved up the pyramid). | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
