| Reform UK Manifesto 15:01 - Jun 17 with 11884 views | BlueNomad |
Reading it is more frightening and sinister than hearing the likes of Farage spouting off. Obviously immigration is their big thing but much of it is approaching National Socialism. |  | | |  |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:22 - Jun 17 with 2614 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:01 - Jun 17 by JammyDodgerrr |
It's not even remotely properly funded.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies thinktank has published its assessment of Reform UK’s tax and spending plans and it says they “don’t add up”. And they are not just relatively unrealistic, it says. It says the costings are out “by a margin of tens of billions of pounds per year”.
They are some good ideas, sure, the lower tax threshold increasing and the VAT threshold(most small businesses just work their accounts to stay under the amount anyway) but to call the way they've decided their going to fund it, as guesswork, is probably still too generous. |
By IFS calculations, it would make Liz Truss look prudent.
It's all just headline grabbing rhetoric for the gullible and ill-informed. |  | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:22 - Jun 17 with 2615 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:20 - Jun 17 by homer_123 |
All manifesto's are a waste of time. Typically no more than 50% is ever delivered, the majority are either abandoned or missed. |
This can be solved though by voting out parties that don't implement their manifesto.
If there was a punishment for not implementing it then perhaps more realistic ones would be published and be fully implemented.
SB |  | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:42 - Jun 17 with 2566 views | Radlett_blue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:22 - Jun 17 by StokieBlue |
This can be solved though by voting out parties that don't implement their manifesto.
If there was a punishment for not implementing it then perhaps more realistic ones would be published and be fully implemented.
SB |
in theory, but I think most of the public are weary & mistrustful of modern politicians & many realise that both Labour & the Conservatives are being dishonest about the state of public finances and how they might be improved.
If the Reform vote does hold up in the General election, it will have a major effect on UK politics as the Tories will lurch to the right & condemn themselves to 10 years or so of opposition. |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:44 - Jun 17 with 2549 views | Mullet |
To think some people insist they’re not far right, let alone grifting scum… |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:45 - Jun 17 with 2542 views | BlueForYou |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:20 - Jun 17 by StokieBlue |
Can you provide a link to an independent organisation that thinks the Reform policies are properly funded?
You made the claim, you should back it up.
SB |
I didn't make any claim. I said appears to be. Sky thought it was financially sound earlier but thought it would be a big ask, & the green manifesto was more expensive than Reform, their graph showed. Most costings for manifestos are based on a certain amount of guesswork & assumptions surely? Also it's a football forum not an exam paper! [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 16:48]
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:49 - Jun 17 with 2519 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 15:56 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
Watched it earlier. They stressed they don't expect to form a government, it is not a manifesto but more a document of guidance for the next five years. Some interesting ideas. Some include.....
Lower Tax threshold to £20k, Tigher Tax threshold to £70k.
VAT Threshold to £120k
Abolish IR35
Support small & medium Business
Scrap Police commisioners/Zero Tolerance Policing
Net Zero Immigration
NHS & Social Care staff to pay zero basic rate tax for three years
NHS Voucher Scheme
Reform House of Lords/PR voting
British Bill of Rights
Westminster Anti Corruption Unit
50% Public ownership of utily companies, other 50% UK pension funds
Quite a comprehensive document, & appears to be properly funded. Its very different from the other parties & can see it being quite poplular. |
Can I interest you in some snake oil, sir? |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:50 - Jun 17 with 2510 views | DanTheMan |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 15:56 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
Watched it earlier. They stressed they don't expect to form a government, it is not a manifesto but more a document of guidance for the next five years. Some interesting ideas. Some include.....
Lower Tax threshold to £20k, Tigher Tax threshold to £70k.
VAT Threshold to £120k
Abolish IR35
Support small & medium Business
Scrap Police commisioners/Zero Tolerance Policing
Net Zero Immigration
NHS & Social Care staff to pay zero basic rate tax for three years
NHS Voucher Scheme
Reform House of Lords/PR voting
British Bill of Rights
Westminster Anti Corruption Unit
50% Public ownership of utily companies, other 50% UK pension funds
Quite a comprehensive document, & appears to be properly funded. Its very different from the other parties & can see it being quite poplular. |
"Net Zero Immigration"
If we sidestep thinking about why people want this, nobody has ever been able to explain to me how this works in practice without ballooning tax rises to deal with a population that is get increasingly older.
Even if we were to get social policies somehow to encourage people to have children (which is not all that easy to do at larger scales), we've got a good 20-year lead time to deal with.
Farage likes to bang on that nobody wants to talk about changing the NHS (when he only wants to talk about the funding model) but nobody wants to talk about why we have high migration.
I will say out of the list though, would like PR but that's never going to happen unless the two big parties explode at the same time. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 16:51]
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:02 - Jun 17 with 2466 views | BlueForYou |
"Can I interest you in some snake oil, sir?"
Yes you could, problem is which bottle to buy? There's a blue one, a red one, a yellow one, a green one, & a turquoise one. It's like shopping with the wife at Tesco! They're all the same & never do what it says on the label..!! | | | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:03 - Jun 17 with 2454 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 16:50 - Jun 17 by DanTheMan |
"Net Zero Immigration"
If we sidestep thinking about why people want this, nobody has ever been able to explain to me how this works in practice without ballooning tax rises to deal with a population that is get increasingly older.
Even if we were to get social policies somehow to encourage people to have children (which is not all that easy to do at larger scales), we've got a good 20-year lead time to deal with.
Farage likes to bang on that nobody wants to talk about changing the NHS (when he only wants to talk about the funding model) but nobody wants to talk about why we have high migration.
I will say out of the list though, would like PR but that's never going to happen unless the two big parties explode at the same time. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 16:51]
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We'll have to start shipping cons off to Australia again. Job done! |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:12 - Jun 17 with 2438 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:02 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
"Can I interest you in some snake oil, sir?"
Yes you could, problem is which bottle to buy? There's a blue one, a red one, a yellow one, a green one, & a turquoise one. It's like shopping with the wife at Tesco! They're all the same & never do what it says on the label..!! |
They really aren't all the same though and it's a shame people aren't willing to invest the small amount of time and energy required to see that. | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:25 - Jun 17 with 2405 views | BlueForYou |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:12 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
They really aren't all the same though and it's a shame people aren't willing to invest the small amount of time and energy required to see that. |
They are all the same, they are all liars. I've voted for them all over the years. It never changes. There are holes in all the manifestos when you read them & look closely enough. I'm not voting for anyone, but let's see how long the Labour dream lasts. I just happen to find the subject quite interesting though! | | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:31 - Jun 17 with 2379 views | MattinLondon |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:25 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
They are all the same, they are all liars. I've voted for them all over the years. It never changes. There are holes in all the manifestos when you read them & look closely enough. I'm not voting for anyone, but let's see how long the Labour dream lasts. I just happen to find the subject quite interesting though! |
The old ‘they are all the same’ is a pathetic argument allowing proper charlatans like Boris and hate-preacher Farage to gain respectability. |  | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:44 - Jun 17 with 2343 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:25 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
They are all the same, they are all liars. I've voted for them all over the years. It never changes. There are holes in all the manifestos when you read them & look closely enough. I'm not voting for anyone, but let's see how long the Labour dream lasts. I just happen to find the subject quite interesting though! |
They aren't all the same though. That's demonstrably false. There's less to choose between Labour and the Tories than at times in the past but there are still significant differences. And when it comes to lies, the Tories have that stitched up. We didn't have fact checkers working overtime for broadcasters until the last decade because there was a sense that, whilst politicians might engage in a bit of spin, they wouldn't wilfully and deliberately mislead the public on the reg. That changed significantly thanks to Boris Johnson and the cabal of mediocre excrement he brought with him in 2019. | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 with 2301 views | Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |  | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:10 - Jun 17 with 2246 views | Herbivore |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |
But if they came into your house, built extensions, paid your bills, cooked your meals, did your gardening, and looked after you when you were unwell then presumably you'd have less of an issue. That's a better analogy than the one you've used, migrants are usually working age and net contributors to the economy. And the UK is not especially densely populated by global standards so we're far away from being 'full'. Also worth remembering that the last couple of years' figures are slightly falsely inflated due to international students coming back to study in the UK and still being on their courses, so they aren't starting to leave the country yet. | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:13 - Jun 17 with 2232 views | BlueBadger |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:31 - Jun 17 by MattinLondon |
The old ‘they are all the same’ is a pathetic argument allowing proper charlatans like Boris and hate-preacher Farage to gain respectability. |
It's a particularly ironic argument given that those two embody the exact same qualities they purport to rail against.
I suspect it's because they're self-obsessed frauds without a drip of empathy who assume everyone is as vile as them. |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:16 - Jun 17 with 2219 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |
“It’s clear that immigration is out of control”. How is it clear? | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:18 - Jun 17 with 2215 views | StokieBlue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |
It's not "very clear" that immigration is out of control.
Just writing it doesn't make it true, that's how Farage operates. Give us clear example and statistics about how it's out of control.
SB | | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:23 - Jun 17 with 2194 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:10 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
But if they came into your house, built extensions, paid your bills, cooked your meals, did your gardening, and looked after you when you were unwell then presumably you'd have less of an issue. That's a better analogy than the one you've used, migrants are usually working age and net contributors to the economy. And the UK is not especially densely populated by global standards so we're far away from being 'full'. Also worth remembering that the last couple of years' figures are slightly falsely inflated due to international students coming back to study in the UK and still being on their courses, so they aren't starting to leave the country yet. |
EU migrants used to be largely workers and net contributors to the economy, but non-EU used to be more of a drain (due to dependents I think). Since Brexit most of our immigration is from non-EU countries, so it’d be interesting to see what the stats look like now in terms of financial contribution.
Mind you, about 2/3rds of ‘immigration’ last year was on study visas, so it’s largely short-term. Take out the students and a chunk of the remaining immigration is needed to support the economy. Under net zero immigration, the UK population would fall. That would be disastrous in the context of our aging population. [Post edited 17 Jun 2024 18:24]
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:24 - Jun 17 with 2178 views | MattinLondon |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |
But I thought hate-preacher Farage said that leaving the EU would dramatically cut immigration- was he telling porkie pies?
I do like the fact that Brexit voters helped to actually increase immigration. | | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:27 - Jun 17 with 2166 views | Pencilpete |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:18 - Jun 17 by StokieBlue |
It's not "very clear" that immigration is out of control.
Just writing it doesn't make it true, that's how Farage operates. Give us clear example and statistics about how it's out of control.
SB |
Like I said - every single political party other than the SNP said on national TV that immigration numbers were too high
To answer the other question about how many migrants were dependents Nigel Farage said it was half but it was fact checked on TV and they said it was nearer 30% | | | |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:34 - Jun 17 with 2117 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:27 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
Like I said - every single political party other than the SNP said on national TV that immigration numbers were too high
To answer the other question about how many migrants were dependents Nigel Farage said it was half but it was fact checked on TV and they said it was nearer 30% |
It’s in the manifestos because it’s a political hot potato and the Tories/Labour/Reform are fighting for votes from the former red wall and Brexit voting areas. That’s not evidence in itself that immigration is out of control. | |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:43 - Jun 17 with 2068 views | homer_123 |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:54 - Jun 17 by Pencilpete |
To answer everyone - it’s very clear migration is out of control every single party acknowledges this,from what I gather net migration is over half a million a year.
I don’t have a problem with migration, people come in and they do valuable jobs and contribute greatly, but at the end of the day we are an island and it simply isnt sustainable to have that many extra people year after year after year ….. and it’s true the increased population does put an extra strain on housing, the NHS etc …. That’s just logical.
I have always believed you should run the country like you run your house … don’t spend money you haven’t got ETC and in that sense if I kept letting people in the front door and only a few out of the back it won’t be long before there wasn’t any room, the utility bills went through the roof, hot water ran out and everyone in there was fed up and miserable and that’s what’s happening in this country.
I don’t want to put a stop to migration but it definitely needs to be brought under control otherwise the likes of Nigel Farage are going to get support |
Migration is much more a political issue for this Country.
A couple of points that I think are rather significant. Would you care to explain how migration has affected the 'water' situation in this country. We have a situation whereby privately owned water companies wish to increase costs by over 100% in some areas and yet the same privately owned companies have paid out nearly £90bn in dividends.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4478wnjdpo
Migration and immigration has no bearing on something like this, a situation that affects every single person in this country.
You also seem not to mention what would happen to something like the NHS without people willing to relocate to this country and work within said institution.
By the by less than 10% of this island is actually developed. As of April 2022:
8.7% of land in England is of developed use, with 91.1% of non-developed use and the remaining 0.2% being vacant.
Not all land within the UK can be developed for obvious reasons but we hardly lack space - we may lack infrastructure but we lacked that for many, many years. |  |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:44 - Jun 17 with 2064 views | BABLUE |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 17:25 - Jun 17 by BlueForYou |
They are all the same, they are all liars. I've voted for them all over the years. It never changes. There are holes in all the manifestos when you read them & look closely enough. I'm not voting for anyone, but let's see how long the Labour dream lasts. I just happen to find the subject quite interesting though! |
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| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:49 - Jun 17 with 2045 views | Pencilpete |
| Reform UK Manifesto on 18:34 - Jun 17 by Swansea_Blue |
It’s in the manifestos because it’s a political hot potato and the Tories/Labour/Reform are fighting for votes from the former red wall and Brexit voting areas. That’s not evidence in itself that immigration is out of control. |
I’ll acknowledge there is no right or wrong answer because there are people who think 10,000 Immigrants a year is too many and others who think 6 million a year is fine - there isn’t a line drawn in the sand at a certain figure where everyone agrees so whatever my opinion is I’ll totally respect yours is different and there’s nothing wrong with that.
Obviously the fact people voted for Brexit and they’re now supporting Nigel Farage shows that a large number of people in the UK have a problem with the numbers as they are and on that basis my initial comment of “if the leading parties had controlled the numbers better then Nigel Farage wouldn’t be getting the support he is” stands to reason doesn’t it ?
Wether you agree with the numbers, think they’re too low or too high that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it but the immigration numbers are going up year on year I don’t think there’s too much dispute over that and again the support Farage is getting would suggest again that a lot of people think it’s too high | | | |
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