| Southgates decision? 08:46 - Jul 15 with 5460 views | bobbyramsey |
Why do people keep suggesting that it's Southgates decision as to whether he continues or not? Don't the FA have a say in this, is he untouchable?
[Post edited 15 Jul 2024 8:54]
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| Don’t disagree with that Fookers old bean on 10:21 - Jul 15 with 787 views | blueasfook |
| Don’t disagree with that Fookers old bean on 10:15 - Jul 15 by Dyland |
Key point as has been discussed in this thread is, rather than how one measures success, who is out there who would be better and importantly who wants the gig. |
Honestly can't think of anyone - we tried the successful European manager approach and that didnt work. Maybe try to see if we can repeat the Southgate success and get an English manager with some club experience - like a Lampard or a Rooney?!
Southgate's failure in this tournament was sticking with Kane. Anyone could see he wasn't fit and largely just a passenger in the side. Especially last night against Spain. [Post edited 15 Jul 2024 12:13]
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| Don’t disagree with that Fookers old bean on 10:21 - Jul 15 with 780 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Don’t disagree with that Fookers old bean on 10:15 - Jul 15 by Dyland |
Key point as has been discussed in this thread is, rather than how one measures success, who is out there who would be better and importantly who wants the gig. |
Lots have mentioned Klopp, but I don't think he'd want it, others have mentioned Poch, but again the same. The truth is the FA need a progressive, forward thinking manager, a McKenna if you will.
But, someone like McKenna isn't going to gamble their career on England. No matter how many times I think about it, it all comes back to Potter.
Lets be honest, despite the 'relative' success, the FA weren't exactly forward thinking in appointing Southgate, and they never have been, arguably, they haven't taken a real risk since Venables. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 10:28 - Jul 15 with 764 views | bsw72 |
| Southgates decision? on 09:42 - Jul 15 by RIPbobby |
I think that Mr Southgate is deemed a great human being. He has united those that could not be united. But what skills he has as a humanitarian he does not have in modern football knowledge. He needs to be removed from picking the team and match tactics, but kept on somehow to maintain equilibrium and squad ethics.
One thing that really worried me in his interview after the match is that he said he had not watched back their 2 goals, blah blah blah. Has he missed the concept of the tablets in front of him to analyse the match and to make in play tactical changes. NO. We have seen how well our manager uses analysis and employs people he can trust to offer in game updates on good and bad elements. I'm not sure Mr Southgate does that at all. Those small percentages make a big difference in the grand scheme of things. |
I don't believe the Spanish manager sat behind his tablet analyzing the game - what works for one manager and team does not work for another. What McKenna does at Town is obviously working for him and the club, but is not guaranteed for others.
Personally I think we did not move the ball quick enough, partly down to our players but also down to how well the Spanish team closed us down.
It came down to 2 teams, one who was brave enough to push for the win and the other who seemed scared to lose, I think that England mentalility is partly down to the players and partly down to media and fan pressure. |  | | |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 10:37 - Jul 15 with 747 views | bsw72 |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 09:31 - Jul 15 by Dyland |
Tournament football is judged by winning the competition not by being runner up. I know you get that, so not sure about all this success Southgate has had. Obviously all good teams lose as well as win, but England aren’t exactly footballing minnows and 2021 and this year especially we should have played better. We totally spawned our way to the final and to me, whilst I like Southgate the man, I wouldn’t call his tenure a success at the end of the day. Big respect for his changing of attitudes and getting more togetherness though. |
"Tournament football is judged by winning the competition not by being runner up." - what a strange statement, so every major international team should replace their manager if they don't win a tournament? | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 10:41 - Jul 15 with 737 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Southgates decision? on 10:13 - Jul 15 by blueasfook |
I dont see how getting us to successive Euro finals can be seen as underachieving. Certainly better than the standard quarter final stage that the likes of Sven and Capello could achieve.
It's disappointing to not quite get over the line but Southgate has certainly raised the bar in terms of England performances and expectations. I think we will miss him when he's gone, and we're back to going out at the QF Stages under some hasbeen former club coach. |
"raised the bar in terms of England performances"
Have you watched the England performances? It's been agricultural at best. We only got through as many rounds as we did through luck and individual moments of quality. It's boring, non-threatening football - Kane's had two touches in the box in 180 minutes.
If that's raising the bar then the bar must've been bloody low!
I've had barely any excitement watching this team, and wasn't even that bothered about us losing the final. McKenna has shown us how football should be played; attacking, as a team not individuals... AND successful. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Obviously not ffs! (n/t) on 10:42 - Jul 15 with 732 views | Dyland |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 10:37 - Jul 15 by bsw72 |
"Tournament football is judged by winning the competition not by being runner up." - what a strange statement, so every major international team should replace their manager if they don't win a tournament? |
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| Southgates decision? on 10:45 - Jul 15 with 729 views | Vic |
| Southgates decision? on 09:00 - Jul 15 by LeoMuff |
Can you sack the the best manager in major tournaments in your history ? After reaching only the third major tournament final in 100 hundred years, when he has acheived 2 of the 3.
On paper he is pretty much unsackable, but I think he will step down - who needs the grief you get with this job, he doesn’t need the money..
He had the demeanour in his post match interviews of a man who had reached the end I thought. |
yep, that's how I see it. Didn't seem to have a lot left in the tank, very down beat and reflective and certainly didn't seem to be looking forward. Thought he was a man who knew what was going to happen but didn't want to say it there and then.
I think it would be cruel for the FA to sack him off the back of the success he's had - even if the football wasn't that great. Surely they employ him to go deep into tournaments and he's delivered that way better than any previous manager.
I suspect they think pretty much like most of us and will not discourage him stepping down, but I'd be surprised if the headline is 'FA sack Southgate'. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 10:47 - Jul 15 with 730 views | homer_123 |
| Southgates decision? on 10:41 - Jul 15 by The_Flashing_Smile |
"raised the bar in terms of England performances"
Have you watched the England performances? It's been agricultural at best. We only got through as many rounds as we did through luck and individual moments of quality. It's boring, non-threatening football - Kane's had two touches in the box in 180 minutes.
If that's raising the bar then the bar must've been bloody low!
I've had barely any excitement watching this team, and wasn't even that bothered about us losing the final. McKenna has shown us how football should be played; attacking, as a team not individuals... AND successful. |
Early doors under Southgate he had a good mix of solidity at the back but also going forward we did so at a good tempo and were a good attacking threat.
I would say he has regressed in the last year or so. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 10:47 - Jul 15 with 724 views | meekreech |
With the FA he is untouchable . He doesn’t cause any problems to them . For the sake of English football he has to be removed before completely ruining the players with his lack of tactical awareness. Player for player ours probably better than the Spanish but set up to not lose and hope for a lucky chance! |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 10:52 - Jul 15 with 712 views | bobbyramsey |
| Southgates decision? on 10:45 - Jul 15 by Vic |
yep, that's how I see it. Didn't seem to have a lot left in the tank, very down beat and reflective and certainly didn't seem to be looking forward. Thought he was a man who knew what was going to happen but didn't want to say it there and then.
I think it would be cruel for the FA to sack him off the back of the success he's had - even if the football wasn't that great. Surely they employ him to go deep into tournaments and he's delivered that way better than any previous manager.
I suspect they think pretty much like most of us and will not discourage him stepping down, but I'd be surprised if the headline is 'FA sack Southgate'. |
Is he now out of contract/will it be expiring soon? [Post edited 15 Jul 2024 10:54]
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| Southgates decision? on 10:55 - Jul 15 with 702 views | DinDjarin |
| Southgates decision? on 09:43 - Jul 15 by Swailsey |
You mean Spain, who are undefeated and were miles better than us and every other team in every way? |
Yes, they are the best team who play to their strengths and get their tactics spot on.
We have quality players who look lost when playing for England and we all know that the best players does not equal the best team. |  | | |
| Southgates decision? on 10:55 - Jul 15 with 707 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Southgates decision? on 10:47 - Jul 15 by homer_123 |
Early doors under Southgate he had a good mix of solidity at the back but also going forward we did so at a good tempo and were a good attacking threat.
I would say he has regressed in the last year or so. |
I'd largely agree with this. I remarked more than once that England in the group games was like watching Roy Hodgson's England. | |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:02 - Jul 15 with 703 views | J2BLUE |
I feel like he has chosen to end things on a sour note by refusing to take any criticism and having digs at the fans and media. Hopefully that's a sign he has had enough.
If we're honest, we stumbled to the final with a favourable draw. History would have been rewritten if we had won the final but overall he got enough wrong for this to have been it.
Good man, wish him all the best, but not at my country or club if possible. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:08 - Jul 15 with 692 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Southgates decision? on 11:02 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
I feel like he has chosen to end things on a sour note by refusing to take any criticism and having digs at the fans and media. Hopefully that's a sign he has had enough.
If we're honest, we stumbled to the final with a favourable draw. History would have been rewritten if we had won the final but overall he got enough wrong for this to have been it.
Good man, wish him all the best, but not at my country or club if possible. |
Turning up at Town, or anywhere else is highly unlikely. He was a terrible club manager. | |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:12 - Jul 15 with 683 views | Vic |
| Southgates decision? on 10:52 - Jul 15 by bobbyramsey |
Is he now out of contract/will it be expiring soon? [Post edited 15 Jul 2024 10:54]
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End of the calendar year I think.
It's an interesting one isn't it! He insists, and the players say, that he does not set them up to defend. he says that they don't press or pass as quickly as he wants them to. His post match interview was very honest in that he felt the players didn't perform (at least that's how I heard it). he also admitted that Kane wasn't fit.
So if we take him at his word he's not actually far away. If he were to play a proper left back (what a difference he made yesterday - superb), replace Kane with a fit CF who can challenge for headers and press, get the team pressing as they should and we'd be much better.
But if he knows these things and can't/won't correct them, then sadly he needs to go - and let someone else try to fit Foden and Bellingham and Saka and Palmer into the same team. Good luck on that one!! | |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:13 - Jul 15 with 677 views | BlueBlood90 |
| Southgates decision? on 10:13 - Jul 15 by blueasfook |
I dont see how getting us to successive Euro finals can be seen as underachieving. Certainly better than the standard quarter final stage that the likes of Sven and Capello could achieve.
It's disappointing to not quite get over the line but Southgate has certainly raised the bar in terms of England performances and expectations. I think we will miss him when he's gone, and we're back to going out at the QF Stages under some hasbeen former club coach. |
Let's have it right. The 'golden generation' with Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard etc never used to play the likes of Slovakia and Switzerland to get to a final, they had to play teams like Germany and Portugal. Southgate would never had made it past a quarter final either if that was the case. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:13 - Jul 15 with 667 views | J2BLUE |
| Southgates decision? on 11:12 - Jul 15 by Vic |
End of the calendar year I think.
It's an interesting one isn't it! He insists, and the players say, that he does not set them up to defend. he says that they don't press or pass as quickly as he wants them to. His post match interview was very honest in that he felt the players didn't perform (at least that's how I heard it). he also admitted that Kane wasn't fit.
So if we take him at his word he's not actually far away. If he were to play a proper left back (what a difference he made yesterday - superb), replace Kane with a fit CF who can challenge for headers and press, get the team pressing as they should and we'd be much better.
But if he knows these things and can't/won't correct them, then sadly he needs to go - and let someone else try to fit Foden and Bellingham and Saka and Palmer into the same team. Good luck on that one!! |
He had a whole tournament to replace Kane... | |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:19 - Jul 15 with 635 views | berkstractorboy |
| Southgates decision? on 09:11 - Jul 15 by bobbyramsey |
Ah, I didn't realise that the FA were keen for him to continue. So, it is his decision, thanks for clearing that up.
I think the FA need their heads examined..... |
Who is the person you think simply walks in and does a better job?
Whilst I want a change because as well as he has done we simply need a different approach with the players we have.
Right now the only person I think available that might be able to do a job is Klopp. And why the hell would he want the stick the English media and fans give anyone in the role unless we are winning every game 5-0. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 11:22 - Jul 15 with 630 views | HighgateBlue |
| Southgates decision? on 09:24 - Jul 15 by DinDjarin |
If success is measured by not winning anything then yes he is a massive success.
Spain were nothing special but he continues to pick obviously injured / not fit players.
Player for player we are better than Spain but they are a better team. |
He's come second twice, if that's not winning anything, and hence he has not been successful, then I guess I need to reassess Mr McKenna.
I totally understand the criticism of Southgate, and much of it is valid, but in terms of results, to decry two finals is churlish. Especially in the context of what went before.
Spain were special. They won all 7 games. How many times has that been done? Those victories included England, Germany, France, Italy, Croatia. They only needed extra time once, and never needed penalties. That is a pretty special tournament performance. |  | | |
| Southgates decision? on 11:23 - Jul 15 with 627 views | Vic |
| Southgates decision? on 11:13 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
He had a whole tournament to replace Kane... |
Yep - and much as i like him, I agree that it raises a massive question mark over him. Why didn't he do it? I've no idea and it's very frustrating! | |
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| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:24 - Jul 15 with 625 views | glasso |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 09:31 - Jul 15 by Dyland |
Tournament football is judged by winning the competition not by being runner up. I know you get that, so not sure about all this success Southgate has had. Obviously all good teams lose as well as win, but England aren’t exactly footballing minnows and 2021 and this year especially we should have played better. We totally spawned our way to the final and to me, whilst I like Southgate the man, I wouldn’t call his tenure a success at the end of the day. Big respect for his changing of attitudes and getting more togetherness though. |
If football was based purely on winning trophies, 99% of managers are a failure. I don't think it's that simple.
A little reminder that KM has never come first in anything...
England's football is boring and uninspiring, but under Southgate we are consistently more successful in tournaments than ever before. Sir Bobby Robson never reached a final, but we all look back on him fondly.
I think in 10 years time, we'll appreciate Southgate much more than we do now. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 11:24 - Jul 15 with 623 views | J2BLUE |
| Southgates decision? on 11:19 - Jul 15 by berkstractorboy |
Who is the person you think simply walks in and does a better job?
Whilst I want a change because as well as he has done we simply need a different approach with the players we have.
Right now the only person I think available that might be able to do a job is Klopp. And why the hell would he want the stick the English media and fans give anyone in the role unless we are winning every game 5-0. |
That is complete rubbish.
Southgate's pragmatic style is going to continue getting us deep in tournaments if he is given the chance but it doesn't win them.
On the hour mark against Italy they were there for the taking.
This tournament, he had blind loyalty to most of the senior players. Toney, Watkins, Gordon and Palmer can all feel pretty pissed off.
Tournaments are about winning. We have an abundance of attacking talent. I can't get excited for the thought of Southgate taking us into the world cup. No doubt we would get to the quarters or semis if we have a similarly lucky draw but there's zero chance we win. | |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:32 - Jul 15 with 587 views | berkstractorboy |
| Southgates decision? on 11:24 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
That is complete rubbish.
Southgate's pragmatic style is going to continue getting us deep in tournaments if he is given the chance but it doesn't win them.
On the hour mark against Italy they were there for the taking.
This tournament, he had blind loyalty to most of the senior players. Toney, Watkins, Gordon and Palmer can all feel pretty pissed off.
Tournaments are about winning. We have an abundance of attacking talent. I can't get excited for the thought of Southgate taking us into the world cup. No doubt we would get to the quarters or semis if we have a similarly lucky draw but there's zero chance we win. |
How is it rubbish I said the same as you we need a change? | | | |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:32 - Jul 15 with 582 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 10:37 - Jul 15 by bsw72 |
"Tournament football is judged by winning the competition not by being runner up." - what a strange statement, so every major international team should replace their manager if they don't win a tournament? |
Of course not but in all honesty there was nothing about Southgate’s performance that would give cause to a believe England were capable of winning the competition.
If the FA are happy with Southgate they need to ask themselves why they lack ambition. Every fan wants to see their team play well and be capable of winning. Southgate falls short on both counts. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:33 - Jul 15 with 574 views | DinDjarin |
| Southgates decision? on 11:22 - Jul 15 by HighgateBlue |
He's come second twice, if that's not winning anything, and hence he has not been successful, then I guess I need to reassess Mr McKenna.
I totally understand the criticism of Southgate, and much of it is valid, but in terms of results, to decry two finals is churlish. Especially in the context of what went before.
Spain were special. They won all 7 games. How many times has that been done? Those victories included England, Germany, France, Italy, Croatia. They only needed extra time once, and never needed penalties. That is a pretty special tournament performance. |
Get your point but this is a cup competition and there is only 1 winner, everyone else are losers.
Different to the league when you can win promotion but not actually come first. | | | |
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