| Southgates decision? 08:46 - Jul 15 with 5455 views | bobbyramsey |
Why do people keep suggesting that it's Southgates decision as to whether he continues or not? Don't the FA have a say in this, is he untouchable?
[Post edited 15 Jul 2024 8:54]
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| Southgates decision? on 11:34 - Jul 15 with 851 views | ITFCBlues |
| Southgates decision? on 11:24 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
That is complete rubbish.
Southgate's pragmatic style is going to continue getting us deep in tournaments if he is given the chance but it doesn't win them.
On the hour mark against Italy they were there for the taking.
This tournament, he had blind loyalty to most of the senior players. Toney, Watkins, Gordon and Palmer can all feel pretty pissed off.
Tournaments are about winning. We have an abundance of attacking talent. I can't get excited for the thought of Southgate taking us into the world cup. No doubt we would get to the quarters or semis if we have a similarly lucky draw but there's zero chance we win. |
I think the damning stat is that he's won 5/27 against top 10 nations. That sort of record doesn't win you tournaments.
People get blinded by the on paper record of reaching two finals but he's been so fortunate with sides we've played that it really doesn't reflect his true performance, it's the big games he should be defined on and we lose every single one.
You also don't win tournaments playing kick and rush football. We're still completely incapable of retaining possession despite the profile of players significantly improving over the last 6-8 years. |  |
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| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:37 - Jul 15 with 832 views | Vic |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:32 - Jul 15 by Pinewoodblue |
Of course not but in all honesty there was nothing about Southgate’s performance that would give cause to a believe England were capable of winning the competition.
If the FA are happy with Southgate they need to ask themselves why they lack ambition. Every fan wants to see their team play well and be capable of winning. Southgate falls short on both counts. |
For all our debating - it's a mark of how far GS has brought this team that we are at last talking about expecting to win a tournament! I'm 60 (and a little bit!!) and in my lifetime that's only ever happened once - '96 with the stupid 'football's coming home' thing. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 11:44 - Jul 15 with 816 views | J2BLUE |
| Southgates decision? on 11:32 - Jul 15 by berkstractorboy |
How is it rubbish I said the same as you we need a change? |
Specifically this bit:
And why the hell would he want the stick the English media and fans give anyone in the role unless we are winning every game 5-0
Simply not true. Just use the talents of the squad effectively and play decent football. Southgate hasn't really had that much stick when you start listing all of the things he has got wrong. It's not hindsight either. After the second group game most people wanted Kane replaced at the very least when it was obvious he wasn't fit. |  |
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| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:50 - Jul 15 with 811 views | BloomBlue |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:24 - Jul 15 by glasso |
If football was based purely on winning trophies, 99% of managers are a failure. I don't think it's that simple.
A little reminder that KM has never come first in anything...
England's football is boring and uninspiring, but under Southgate we are consistently more successful in tournaments than ever before. Sir Bobby Robson never reached a final, but we all look back on him fondly.
I think in 10 years time, we'll appreciate Southgate much more than we do now. |
People will always rewrite history, WC 1990 is the classic example.
We had an easy group, and then in the first knock-out game, we got Belgium, couldn't wish for an easier game. But England was negative and boring, Belgium hit the woodwork on 2 separate occasions and then a worldy from Platt got as out of jail - same as Bellingham this tournament.
Next match Cameroon, a team good going forward but all non league teams had a better defence. England hanging on, got lucky again with Cameroon's amateurish defence and we end up beating them.
First decent team we play Germany and they beat us and let's be honest Germany wasn't anything special then.
But 30 years later history is rewritten, and people talk as if we reached the semi by playing against the best teams in the world. |  | | |
| Southgates decision? on 12:00 - Jul 15 with 791 views | blueasfook |
| Southgates decision? on 11:13 - Jul 15 by BlueBlood90 |
Let's have it right. The 'golden generation' with Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard etc never used to play the likes of Slovakia and Switzerland to get to a final, they had to play teams like Germany and Portugal. Southgate would never had made it past a quarter final either if that was the case. |
You mean Germany who we beat on the way to the final in the last Euro tournament? We beat Netherlands in the semi final in this tournament. Granted, the draws have generally been kind to us but we haven't had it quite as easy as you make out. [Post edited 15 Jul 2024 12:01]
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| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 12:00 - Jul 15 with 784 views | Bluefields |
| Depends if you have anyone better who wants it on 11:50 - Jul 15 by BloomBlue |
People will always rewrite history, WC 1990 is the classic example.
We had an easy group, and then in the first knock-out game, we got Belgium, couldn't wish for an easier game. But England was negative and boring, Belgium hit the woodwork on 2 separate occasions and then a worldy from Platt got as out of jail - same as Bellingham this tournament.
Next match Cameroon, a team good going forward but all non league teams had a better defence. England hanging on, got lucky again with Cameroon's amateurish defence and we end up beating them.
First decent team we play Germany and they beat us and let's be honest Germany wasn't anything special then.
But 30 years later history is rewritten, and people talk as if we reached the semi by playing against the best teams in the world. |
Eire and Holland in the group were difficult games. Germany ended up World Champions!! |  | | |
| Southgates decision? on 12:01 - Jul 15 with 781 views | berkstractorboy |
| Southgates decision? on 11:44 - Jul 15 by J2BLUE |
Specifically this bit:
And why the hell would he want the stick the English media and fans give anyone in the role unless we are winning every game 5-0
Simply not true. Just use the talents of the squad effectively and play decent football. Southgate hasn't really had that much stick when you start listing all of the things he has got wrong. It's not hindsight either. After the second group game most people wanted Kane replaced at the very least when it was obvious he wasn't fit. |
Possibly but I think Southgate was getting stick before this tournament based on the nations league, WC qualifying and the warm up games. When asked the question who stops Eng winning Euro 24 and most responses weren't France or Spain they were Southgate.
He has undoubtedly got lots wrong this tournament with lack of time for players like Gordon and Palmer and worst was playing Kane. Play Watkins or Toney from the start yesterday and it might be different as would have given Spain more to think about.
Agree use the talents effectively which is why Klopp would be ideal but my point was I don't think Klopp needs the grief that comes with the role and the English media, he had all that at Liverpool. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 12:11 - Jul 15 with 771 views | blueasfook |
| Southgates decision? on 11:23 - Jul 15 by Vic |
Yep - and much as i like him, I agree that it raises a massive question mark over him. Why didn't he do it? I've no idea and it's very frustrating! |
I can only assume Kane has some compromising photos of him. Joking aside, I think it was loyalty and perhaps worrying about upsetting the team dynamic with Kane being captain. | |
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| Southgates decision? on 12:13 - Jul 15 with 756 views | mattyboar |
| Southgates decision? on 10:13 - Jul 15 by blueasfook |
I dont see how getting us to successive Euro finals can be seen as underachieving. Certainly better than the standard quarter final stage that the likes of Sven and Capello could achieve.
It's disappointing to not quite get over the line but Southgate has certainly raised the bar in terms of England performances and expectations. I think we will miss him when he's gone, and we're back to going out at the QF Stages under some hasbeen former club coach. |
I agree that Southgate has raised the expectations bar, and in his early tenure the performances.
Achieving two finals is a fantastic feat, but we didn't get to last nights final due to his tactical prowess. We scraped through with last minute winners and penalties. We never dominated or imposed ourselves on a team, relying upon individual "moments", which is not a strategy.
Southgate fell short in getting the best out of his players. The lack of firepower from a team who strengths (on paper) sit with attacking football falls on Southgate and either his approach or picking players clearly carrying an injury (Kane).
We will miss his reliability to go deep into tournaments but I do not think he has the ability to take us one step further, and surely that is what we should be looking to achieve. We do not want to become the participant champions. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 12:19 - Jul 15 with 753 views | textbackup |
Literally admitted Kane hasn’t been fit, yet played him in every game.
That’s enough for me. Ridiculous |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 12:34 - Jul 15 with 694 views | SE1blue |
| Southgates decision? on 12:19 - Jul 15 by textbackup |
Literally admitted Kane hasn’t been fit, yet played him in every game.
That’s enough for me. Ridiculous |
And as captain, I think it’s really poor leadership from Kane to have played, knowing he couldn’t bring 100%.
Reminds me of when Chambers revealed he wasn’t fully fit towards the end with us. We could all see it and you’d respect these guys more for admitting it for the benefit if the team. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 12:43 - Jul 15 with 653 views | homer_123 |
| Southgates decision? on 11:22 - Jul 15 by HighgateBlue |
He's come second twice, if that's not winning anything, and hence he has not been successful, then I guess I need to reassess Mr McKenna.
I totally understand the criticism of Southgate, and much of it is valid, but in terms of results, to decry two finals is churlish. Especially in the context of what went before.
Spain were special. They won all 7 games. How many times has that been done? Those victories included England, Germany, France, Italy, Croatia. They only needed extra time once, and never needed penalties. That is a pretty special tournament performance. |
If we are going to compare KM to Southgate then, on paper, they are both excellent at coming second (ohh err missus).
However, that 'stat' hides a lot. They both have taken a team and made them gel and become more cohesive and also played better, more effective football.
But...in the last 12 months, whereas KM has kept that progression going and, moreover, has shown he adept at tweaking his approach to matches and set-backs whilst staying true to his ethos, Southgate has regressed.
In the last 12 months - we have regressed. Whereas before under Southgate we had a mix of defensive solidity with the ability to attack at high tempo, with verve and blow teams away - now, it's a low block with player seemingly incapable or unable to move outside their given parameters. England have looked slow both in and out of possession at this tournament.
So, when comparing KM and Southgate - the 'finish 2nd' hides a heck of a lot. |  |
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| Southgates decision? on 13:05 - Jul 15 with 621 views | Rsj13 |
International football - in particular tournaments - is a results business. By that metric, Southgate has done better than his predecessors. That cannot be questioned. And success is not as simple as win the whole thing or bust (didn't Georgia have a great tournament?). It's relative. That said, I would agree that with the players available, England should be contenders at most major tournaments. But you could have said that for the last 30 years, and we've got closer recently than ever before.
Southgate is becoming England's MM. Effective but boring. With the exception that England needs enhancement and taking to the next level, not a rebuild like what we required after Mick! We can be incredibly grateful for the comradery and pride produced. I think he really has created a really solid platform for someone else to take us to the next level.
Southgate has been great. He can hold his head up very high. I will definitely read his book which will inevitably come out. But this feels like it should be a new chapter.
I think - given his results - he is pretty much unsackable by the FA, and we also have to ask who we want as a successor? I have no idea who the FA would want, but get it wrong, and it could undo the hard work of recent years. Is there a a plan for Southgate to remain within the FA (a GM/Director of Football to oversee transition from youth to senior level for example?)?
Luckily, there is time. We don't need to make a decision today. But I would like Southgate to stay in role until a successor is found. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 13:11 - Jul 15 with 616 views | stonojnr |
I think he's earned the right to decide on his terms, the FA have of course indicated they're happy to continue with the setup as it is.
I'm sure if they didn't want him to continue then he wouldn't be given the choice. | | | |
| Southgates decision? on 13:36 - Jul 15 with 587 views | textbackup |
| Southgates decision? on 12:34 - Jul 15 by SE1blue |
And as captain, I think it’s really poor leadership from Kane to have played, knowing he couldn’t bring 100%.
Reminds me of when Chambers revealed he wasn’t fully fit towards the end with us. We could all see it and you’d respect these guys more for admitting it for the benefit if the team. |
Exactly.
It’s not heroic, or ‘lend’ behaviour.
It’s fcking selfish | |
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| Southgates decision? on 13:42 - Jul 15 with 568 views | bournemouthblue |
| Southgates decision? on 11:34 - Jul 15 by ITFCBlues |
I think the damning stat is that he's won 5/27 against top 10 nations. That sort of record doesn't win you tournaments.
People get blinded by the on paper record of reaching two finals but he's been so fortunate with sides we've played that it really doesn't reflect his true performance, it's the big games he should be defined on and we lose every single one.
You also don't win tournaments playing kick and rush football. We're still completely incapable of retaining possession despite the profile of players significantly improving over the last 6-8 years. |
For me we have regressed with him as manager in the last couple of years
That shouldn't be happening under a manager who has been charge for as long as he has been and a supposed blueprint from youth level to the first team which should be kicking in with all the added benefits that the St George's Park base was meant to bring
Clearly the talent is there in the next generation but we're playing an older fashioned form of football
Low pressing, sitting compact and being overly safe with our passing.
Fundamentally he has made some massive mistakes in balance at this tournament, he picked one barely fit left back and at least four right backs, he seemed to neglect having any runners with genuine pace who had served him so well, if Kane is going to be your main man, he has to have pacey runners around him.
Those are self-inflicted mistakes on his part.
You can argue his success for getting deeper in tournaments is down to that defensive solidity and cautious approach, it's hard to argue against him not being a good tournament manager even if the performances on pitch have been his worst at the helm really. |  |
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