| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending 18:14 - Jul 29 with 5928 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
The Tories say that’s nonsense.
I’m not sure what it is about the last 14 years that gives the Tory Party the sense that we’ll believe anything they say. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 18:15]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:48 - Jul 30 with 1698 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 00:23 - Jul 30 by Europablue |
It seems to me that Labour have prioritized giving above inflation pay rises to public sector workers while at the same time looking to increase taxes and cancel infrastructure projects. Of course they will say that it was the last guy's fault as all politicians do.
It has been proven that we will always find money somehow if the political imperative is high enough. |
They are all playing political games, always have done and always will.
Labour have a bit of a free run as they have a honeymoon period and there is no genuine opposition until November.
I am sure they have their work cut out and I hope they manage to turn things around.
I suppose the thing that has struck me is not so much that they have scrapped the hospital rebuild and modernisation in favour of the people working in them, but the immediate cancelation of roads and railways.
Roads and railways are needed for growth and Labour were supposedly all about growth. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:49 - Jul 30 with 1694 views | DJR |
A far from assured or convincing performance from Rachel Reeves on the Today Programme.
Amongst other things it was put to her that Wes Streeting before the election said the social care cap would be implemented.
And whilst this wasn't put to her, Labour during the election campaign said there were no plans to remove winter fuel payments.
The fact is that the state of the finances was well known before the election, and Richard Hughes of the OBR even said in January that Jeremy Hunt’s economic forecasts last year were based on “questionable assumptions” and beyond “a work of fiction”.
It strikes me that Labour were not honest about things before the election, and given that much of this was either known or suspected, her attempts to express surprise and blame the Tories after the election are not as convincing or effective as Cameron and Osborne's corresponding attempts to blame the last Labour government. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:50]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:53 - Jul 30 with 1669 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:48 - Jul 30 by Lord_Lucan |
They are all playing political games, always have done and always will.
Labour have a bit of a free run as they have a honeymoon period and there is no genuine opposition until November.
I am sure they have their work cut out and I hope they manage to turn things around.
I suppose the thing that has struck me is not so much that they have scrapped the hospital rebuild and modernisation in favour of the people working in them, but the immediate cancelation of roads and railways.
Roads and railways are needed for growth and Labour were supposedly all about growth. |
The point, of course, is that much like the Hospital programme, it was probably never expected to happen and never actually funded; just headline fibs by the previous government.
Having just heard Reeves on the radion, I am irritated by ger refusal to deal directly with questions. Nothing new there and perhaps I was expecting a bit too much. However, she says that the recent independent pay reviews were set up without the usual "affordability" parameters. Which is extraoardinary. Every year, the conservatives claim to be guided by independent pay review bodies, whilst failing to note that they set the parameters and give them guidelines, including affordability, within which to work.
This time they didnt include that factor. Presumably in the full knowledge they were stitching up the next government. |  | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:54 - Jul 30 with 1663 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:49 - Jul 30 by DJR |
A far from assured or convincing performance from Rachel Reeves on the Today Programme.
Amongst other things it was put to her that Wes Streeting before the election said the social care cap would be implemented.
And whilst this wasn't put to her, Labour during the election campaign said there were no plans to remove winter fuel payments.
The fact is that the state of the finances was well known before the election, and Richard Hughes of the OBR even said in January that Jeremy Hunt’s economic forecasts last year were based on “questionable assumptions” and beyond “a work of fiction”.
It strikes me that Labour were not honest about things before the election, and given that much of this was either known or suspected, her attempts to express surprise and blame the Tories after the election are not as convincing or effective as Cameron and Osborne's corresponding attempts to blame the last Labour government. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:50]
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If you just listened to the interview, you will be aware of the very clear assertion that the finances are much worse than anticipated, because of excessive in year spending committments, with a reserve blown three times over, 3 months into the financial year. And that this was not known previously. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:59 - Jul 30 with 1659 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:53 - Jul 30 by redrickstuhaart |
The point, of course, is that much like the Hospital programme, it was probably never expected to happen and never actually funded; just headline fibs by the previous government.
Having just heard Reeves on the radion, I am irritated by ger refusal to deal directly with questions. Nothing new there and perhaps I was expecting a bit too much. However, she says that the recent independent pay reviews were set up without the usual "affordability" parameters. Which is extraoardinary. Every year, the conservatives claim to be guided by independent pay review bodies, whilst failing to note that they set the parameters and give them guidelines, including affordability, within which to work.
This time they didnt include that factor. Presumably in the full knowledge they were stitching up the next government. |
You can't scrap something that wasn't going to happen.
I'm not so bothered about the Stonehenge tunnel but if they scrap the Long Stratton bypass I'm going to glue myself to the A140. | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:04 - Jul 30 with 1633 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:59 - Jul 30 by Lord_Lucan |
You can't scrap something that wasn't going to happen.
I'm not so bothered about the Stonehenge tunnel but if they scrap the Long Stratton bypass I'm going to glue myself to the A140. |
Thats exactly the point. Liek the hospitals, Boris claimed it was going to happen, but the funding and action was probably never in place. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:16 - Jul 30 with 1588 views | DJR |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:54 - Jul 30 by redrickstuhaart |
If you just listened to the interview, you will be aware of the very clear assertion that the finances are much worse than anticipated, because of excessive in year spending committments, with a reserve blown three times over, 3 months into the financial year. And that this was not known previously. |
Roughly half that figure is to cover to pay public sector pay increases, but Labour knew the Tories had only budgeted for 1%, so they can hardly express surprise on this aspect.
The fact is that neither party discussed during the election the difficulties ahead, or suggested solutions, but it was well known that most departmental budgets were facing a 3.2% real terms cut, and that cuts or tax rises would be necessary.
Of course it may well be that what has been discovered in-year has made things slightly worse, but to talk about cuts and tax rises only after the election is rather dishonest in my view. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:26 - Jul 30 with 1558 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:49 - Jul 30 by DJR |
A far from assured or convincing performance from Rachel Reeves on the Today Programme.
Amongst other things it was put to her that Wes Streeting before the election said the social care cap would be implemented.
And whilst this wasn't put to her, Labour during the election campaign said there were no plans to remove winter fuel payments.
The fact is that the state of the finances was well known before the election, and Richard Hughes of the OBR even said in January that Jeremy Hunt’s economic forecasts last year were based on “questionable assumptions” and beyond “a work of fiction”.
It strikes me that Labour were not honest about things before the election, and given that much of this was either known or suspected, her attempts to express surprise and blame the Tories after the election are not as convincing or effective as Cameron and Osborne's corresponding attempts to blame the last Labour government. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:50]
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Starmer set out to win at all costs. Anything they knew we wouldn’t want to hear was left unsaid. It worked but has damaged credibility. We are reliant on a mythical cure to increase growth.
On railways presumably plans to increase freight capacity through Ely are cancelled. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:29 - Jul 30 with 1537 views | NthQldITFC |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 08:49 - Jul 30 by DJR |
A far from assured or convincing performance from Rachel Reeves on the Today Programme.
Amongst other things it was put to her that Wes Streeting before the election said the social care cap would be implemented.
And whilst this wasn't put to her, Labour during the election campaign said there were no plans to remove winter fuel payments.
The fact is that the state of the finances was well known before the election, and Richard Hughes of the OBR even said in January that Jeremy Hunt’s economic forecasts last year were based on “questionable assumptions” and beyond “a work of fiction”.
It strikes me that Labour were not honest about things before the election, and given that much of this was either known or suspected, her attempts to express surprise and blame the Tories after the election are not as convincing or effective as Cameron and Osborne's corresponding attempts to blame the last Labour government. [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 8:50]
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Have not the OBR effectively backed her up this morning? That there were at least some billions 'missing' from the forecasts that the OBR didn't even know about until this week. Or am I misreading Faisal Islam's article?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p24zpeg05o |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:29 - Jul 30 with 1532 views | Mullet |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:16 - Jul 30 by DJR |
Roughly half that figure is to cover to pay public sector pay increases, but Labour knew the Tories had only budgeted for 1%, so they can hardly express surprise on this aspect.
The fact is that neither party discussed during the election the difficulties ahead, or suggested solutions, but it was well known that most departmental budgets were facing a 3.2% real terms cut, and that cuts or tax rises would be necessary.
Of course it may well be that what has been discovered in-year has made things slightly worse, but to talk about cuts and tax rises only after the election is rather dishonest in my view. |
Public sector pay has been a scandal under the Tories though. The fact we’ve all been suffering so much seems to be why people are less tolerant of people receiving them.
People talk about lawlessness, waiting lists, feral kids etc constantly but investment in so many services has been more than lacking under the Tories. They’ve completely wrecked the country that it’s a real bind for Labour.
They arguably aren’t/can’t go far enough and can’t risk forcing through the taxation and funding necessary either right now. I don’t think many are going to end up happy because of the level of compromise needed. Labour are going to need to correct things in phases because the narrative and attitudes of the general public are so broken too. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:34 - Jul 30 with 1520 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:26 - Jul 30 by Pinewoodblue |
Starmer set out to win at all costs. Anything they knew we wouldn’t want to hear was left unsaid. It worked but has damaged credibility. We are reliant on a mythical cure to increase growth.
On railways presumably plans to increase freight capacity through Ely are cancelled. |
He knew full well that any suggestion of major problems would lead to Sunak lying about his own party's likely position following an election (they too, needed to raise money or make big cuts) with a knock on effect on votes. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:35 - Jul 30 with 1512 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:29 - Jul 30 by Mullet |
Public sector pay has been a scandal under the Tories though. The fact we’ve all been suffering so much seems to be why people are less tolerant of people receiving them.
People talk about lawlessness, waiting lists, feral kids etc constantly but investment in so many services has been more than lacking under the Tories. They’ve completely wrecked the country that it’s a real bind for Labour.
They arguably aren’t/can’t go far enough and can’t risk forcing through the taxation and funding necessary either right now. I don’t think many are going to end up happy because of the level of compromise needed. Labour are going to need to correct things in phases because the narrative and attitudes of the general public are so broken too. |
Indeed. Most parts of the public sector are broken. Staffed with unmotivated, underpaid people, mostly with little experience, all looking to move on asap.
The knock on effects in terms of growth, social care costs, medical care costs, policing costs etc arising form the absence of proper public services is then ignored. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 10:12 - Jul 30 with 1450 views | DJR |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:29 - Jul 30 by Mullet |
Public sector pay has been a scandal under the Tories though. The fact we’ve all been suffering so much seems to be why people are less tolerant of people receiving them.
People talk about lawlessness, waiting lists, feral kids etc constantly but investment in so many services has been more than lacking under the Tories. They’ve completely wrecked the country that it’s a real bind for Labour.
They arguably aren’t/can’t go far enough and can’t risk forcing through the taxation and funding necessary either right now. I don’t think many are going to end up happy because of the level of compromise needed. Labour are going to need to correct things in phases because the narrative and attitudes of the general public are so broken too. |
I couldn't agree with you more on public sector pay and investment (or lack of it). | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 11:21 - Jul 30 with 1362 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:55 - Jul 29 by DJR |
That was obvious to everyone, and it should have been obvious to Reeves what she would inherit, not least because of warnings from the IFS coupled with a giveaway.
Where Labour deserve criticism is that they should have been more upfront about things rather than pretending they wouldn't have to cut spending and/or raise taxes but they're now pretending it's all a great surprise to them.
Indeed, if they really wanted to fill what they say is an unexpected black hole they could reverse the Tories' NI cuts. [Post edited 29 Jul 2024 19:58]
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Agreed. The criticism seems justifiable. Presumably the Tories were going to fill that black hole by borrowing? So it's a bit of a double whammy. Labour plan to shelve planned investments and cut operational budgets. That seems a political choice rather than a financial one, to my limited understanding.
A bit of a mixed start so far. Some good such as scrapping the wasteful, ineffective Rwanda scheme. Yesterday's performance and announcement by Reeves not so good. But then everyone knew she'd be Osbourne mkII - she didn't try to hide it in the runup to the election. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 12:55 - Jul 30 with 1292 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 11:21 - Jul 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed. The criticism seems justifiable. Presumably the Tories were going to fill that black hole by borrowing? So it's a bit of a double whammy. Labour plan to shelve planned investments and cut operational budgets. That seems a political choice rather than a financial one, to my limited understanding.
A bit of a mixed start so far. Some good such as scrapping the wasteful, ineffective Rwanda scheme. Yesterday's performance and announcement by Reeves not so good. But then everyone knew she'd be Osbourne mkII - she didn't try to hide it in the runup to the election. |
The tories had no intention of filling the black hole because they knew they were going to lose... If existing committments are unfunded, its not just a political choice to shelve them, its a stitch up. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 13:00 - Jul 30 with 1285 views | pointofblue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 12:55 - Jul 30 by redrickstuhaart |
The tories had no intention of filling the black hole because they knew they were going to lose... If existing committments are unfunded, its not just a political choice to shelve them, its a stitch up. |
And one which has forced Labour to reveal their hand - protect the rich, and make the poorer suffer.
Are this lot any different from the coalition? | |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 13:03 - Jul 30 with 1279 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 13:00 - Jul 30 by pointofblue |
And one which has forced Labour to reveal their hand - protect the rich, and make the poorer suffer.
Are this lot any different from the coalition? |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 14:09 - Jul 30 with 1230 views | mellowblue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:09 - Jul 29 by Swansea_Blue |
Do you reckon the Tories NI giveaway of £20BN per year (conveniently the same size as the black hole) followed by the snap GE was deliberate, knowing it would cause Labour difficulties? It seems a bit of a coincidence to me and I wouldn’t put it past the Tories fecking us all over to play politics (as proven by their track record). But I’m wondering if that’s veering into conspiracy theory territory. |
The NI giveaway was a strange one, there was no real electioneering capital to be gained from it and it seemed a strange thing to do given that people's perception is that it directly funds pensions, especially with people's longevity nowadays. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 14:36 - Jul 30 with 1216 views | Radlett_blue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 11:21 - Jul 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Agreed. The criticism seems justifiable. Presumably the Tories were going to fill that black hole by borrowing? So it's a bit of a double whammy. Labour plan to shelve planned investments and cut operational budgets. That seems a political choice rather than a financial one, to my limited understanding.
A bit of a mixed start so far. Some good such as scrapping the wasteful, ineffective Rwanda scheme. Yesterday's performance and announcement by Reeves not so good. But then everyone knew she'd be Osbourne mkII - she didn't try to hide it in the runup to the election. |
Most rational people felt that neither of the 2 main parties was being honest about the state of public finances & what might be necessary to restore them. As the party of government, the Tories clearly had more responsibility, but they were desperate to try to win the election (or reduce the margin of defeat) so no wonder some unsustainable promises were made. |  |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 16:40 - Jul 30 with 1136 views | Whos_blue |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 09:29 - Jul 30 by NthQldITFC |
Have not the OBR effectively backed her up this morning? That there were at least some billions 'missing' from the forecasts that the OBR didn't even know about until this week. Or am I misreading Faisal Islam's article?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p24zpeg05o |
I thought this too, so went back and read the article and have still come to the same conclusion. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:14 - Jul 30 with 1072 views | OldFart71 |
Anyone thinking this is something new needs to reflect back over the years when the Tories were regarded as the one's to look after the purse strings and Labour were seen as the one's who's policy was always spend, spend,spend. No doubt the Tories had a rough time, what with the banking crisis (brought about by greedy banks buying toxic loans from the US) and also Covid. Not that we cannot forgive or forget the total amount of waste via PPE, Track and Trace and also the Furlough Scheme which was used and abused by many Company's especially betting firms who closed shops, furloughed staff and then went on to make many millions more through online gambling. | | | |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:22 - Jul 30 with 1055 views | Vaughan8 |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:14 - Jul 30 by OldFart71 |
Anyone thinking this is something new needs to reflect back over the years when the Tories were regarded as the one's to look after the purse strings and Labour were seen as the one's who's policy was always spend, spend,spend. No doubt the Tories had a rough time, what with the banking crisis (brought about by greedy banks buying toxic loans from the US) and also Covid. Not that we cannot forgive or forget the total amount of waste via PPE, Track and Trace and also the Furlough Scheme which was used and abused by many Company's especially betting firms who closed shops, furloughed staff and then went on to make many millions more through online gambling. |
The furlough scheme and bounceback loans were totally abused.
The BB loans were given out at a fairly low rate, so even people who didn't need them, just took them, which I don't blame anyone who intends to pay it back.
Apparently the written off bounceback loans is going to be about £19billion.
At least the furlough had some sort of check and limit......! [Post edited 30 Jul 2024 19:23]
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| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 07:00 - Jul 31 with 932 views | Churchman |
| Labour says the Tories covered up their overspending on 19:14 - Jul 30 by OldFart71 |
Anyone thinking this is something new needs to reflect back over the years when the Tories were regarded as the one's to look after the purse strings and Labour were seen as the one's who's policy was always spend, spend,spend. No doubt the Tories had a rough time, what with the banking crisis (brought about by greedy banks buying toxic loans from the US) and also Covid. Not that we cannot forgive or forget the total amount of waste via PPE, Track and Trace and also the Furlough Scheme which was used and abused by many Company's especially betting firms who closed shops, furloughed staff and then went on to make many millions more through online gambling. |
The banking crisis was in on Labour’s watch. That it affected us so badly was partially down to Brown’s incompetence setting up FSA and dividing up regulatory responsibility with BofE. Neither had their eye on the ball.
Now Covid was on the Tories watch and quite frankly for the unnecessary deaths and distress they caused with their incompetence plus the corrupt boot filling by them and their mates - they should be facing a criminal trial and confiscation of their assets. Scum.
The Tories used to be the party of fiscal responsibility, defence law and order. It’s now just the party of privilege. A byword for uncaring greed and incompetence. |  | | |
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