| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:06 - Aug 12 with 1287 views | noggin |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 13:54 - Aug 12 by witchdoctor |
what about a task force based on the chanel beaches who’s sole mission is to destroy any vessels attempting the crossing before they set off…? |
Is taking a small boat out to sea illegal in France? How many of these agents would you need 24/7, along the coast? |  |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:09 - Aug 12 with 1256 views | Reus30 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:05 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
The last government refused to work with France. Given they’re using all sorts of cheap inflatable dinghies, you’d need a dedicated force full time covering a vast area using incredibly high tech solutions too it seems.
I think a combined force with the French is possible, it depends on what this government can and will commit to.
Ultimately though we are back to the same issue of people happy and willing to die to get here. How do we deal with that? |
Well governments gone by are doing an impressive job making our country go to pot.
However, we are still seen as the promised land.
I don't get it (apart from the NHS). I mean, no jobs, long waits for everything, benefits are rubbish. If it was me, sign me up for Italy or Spain. At least a bit of decent weather to accompany a miserable life all because you were unlucky enough to be born in a poor country. |  | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:11 - Aug 12 with 1240 views | onceablue |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 13:43 - Aug 12 by Zx1988 |
I suppose this is the new 'very real concerns'?
"I'm not racist, I'm just concerned about how we're meant to pay for it all. Shudnt we be supportin are owen!?!?!?!?!?" |
So if the government asked to increase basic rate of tax by 5p to help with costs of migrants you would agree.
Alternatively you can house a migrant and pay for all the costs
Would you do either would you f@ck!!!! |  | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:15 - Aug 12 with 1207 views | Zx1988 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:11 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
So if the government asked to increase basic rate of tax by 5p to help with costs of migrants you would agree.
Alternatively you can house a migrant and pay for all the costs
Would you do either would you f@ck!!!! |
Fantastic straw men there, champ.
An extra 5% on income tax (assuming you're proposing a base rate of 25%) would increase the UK's income tax take from £255bn to £306bn - I hardly think that the costs of looking after migrants would run to £51bn. There's also the case, as has already been pointed out in this thread, that it could well cost more to deport them than it does to look after them.
Insofar as housing migrants/refugees is concerned, I have neither the finances, space, or specialist training required in order to support the often-complex needs of these individuals. I am no more capable of providing a suitable environment for a potentially PTSD-affected refugee than you would be able to house a similarly-affected veteran.
Try again. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 14:20]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:01 - Aug 12 with 1136 views | Reus30 |
I know this sounds a bit strange but have we tried a rope on a couple of metal poles?
Always seem to stop me getting into places? | | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:06 - Aug 12 with 1123 views | NedPlimpton |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 12:36 - Aug 12 by mutters |
Which policy are you referring to? The one that was in place when there was a change in government or changes that the new government are trying to implement.
If the latter then man you've got to give them time to implement it. |
You mean we don't get a new manager bounce from having a new PM??
Ridiculous. He'll be sacked by Christmas and replaced by Allardyce at this rate |  | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:07 - Aug 12 with 1117 views | Zx1988 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:01 - Aug 12 by Reus30 |
I know this sounds a bit strange but have we tried a rope on a couple of metal poles?
Always seem to stop me getting into places? |
Just make sure that it's not that nice velvet rope, otherwise the vERy rEaL cONcErnS brigade will complain that we're spending too much on it, and not enough on 'are boyz'. | |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:12 - Aug 12 with 1107 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 13:03 - Aug 12 by Reus30 |
Had of this bs yesterday when speaking with family members. Ignore the 'news' articles and rage baiting nonsense.
I don't gaf what your opinions are, two people died. How desperate of a situation must you be in to get aboard one of those things knowing that there is a risk to you and your child's life.
99% of us wouldn't swim in the sea, let alone board a tattered old dinghy with hundreds of others. |
I often wonder how many people who want to 'stop the boats' also regularly take their car to the cheap car wash down the road where said immigrants are forced into virtual slave labour for years to pay off their trafficking debt and barely earn enough to survive?
I genuinely do wonder....  |  | | |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 with 1080 views | onceablue |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:15 - Aug 12 by Zx1988 |
Fantastic straw men there, champ.
An extra 5% on income tax (assuming you're proposing a base rate of 25%) would increase the UK's income tax take from £255bn to £306bn - I hardly think that the costs of looking after migrants would run to £51bn. There's also the case, as has already been pointed out in this thread, that it could well cost more to deport them than it does to look after them.
Insofar as housing migrants/refugees is concerned, I have neither the finances, space, or specialist training required in order to support the often-complex needs of these individuals. I am no more capable of providing a suitable environment for a potentially PTSD-affected refugee than you would be able to house a similarly-affected veteran.
Try again. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 14:20]
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And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right | | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:25 - Aug 12 with 1032 views | noggin |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right |
Around 20% have their claim rejected I think. That means as many as 80% are genuine asylum seekers. | |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:29 - Aug 12 with 1008 views | StochesStotasBlewe |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right |
Herein lies the problem. Having an honest conversation without being accused of being racist, far right, very real concerns blah blah. |  |
| We have no village green, or a shop.
It's very, very quiet.
I can walk to the pub. |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:30 - Aug 12 with 995 views | Blueschev |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right |
Do we have to make up imaginary scenarios for everybody crossing when we have this honest conversation? As I think that could quite quickly lead to a dishonest conversation. |  | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:33 - Aug 12 with 979 views | Zx1988 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right |
Okay then - do you wish to share with us your reasons for being anti-immigrant/refugee?
What is wrong with having a system that can (unlike currently) swiftly assess claimants and then either allow them leave to remain, or deport them?
On the basis that, as Noggin points out, a good 80% of those who arrive and are assessed are found to be legitimate refugees, very few of them are economic migrants in the first place assuming, of course, that your primary objection is to economic migrants.
From my point of view, economic migration is the backbone of the UK economy, be it Dutch weavers settling in East Anglia in the middle-ages, the Windrush generation of the 1950s, or the more recent immigrants upon whom we (and the NHS) rely for so much that we take for granted today.
Whether it's the gentleman who delivers my myriad Amazon purchases, the hospital staff who looked after my great aunt during her treatment for pancreatic cancer, or the many many immigrants from the late 90s/early 2000s who have made successes of themselves, and whom I now count amongst my clients; they all have a part to play in our society, and the nation would be poorer if they were not here. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 15:48]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:37 - Aug 12 with 966 views | J2BLUE |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:11 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
So if the government asked to increase basic rate of tax by 5p to help with costs of migrants you would agree.
Alternatively you can house a migrant and pay for all the costs
Would you do either would you f@ck!!!! |
Of course not but that's not going to happen.
The amount spent on migrants is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. We give them accommodation and basic medical care etc but we we are a civilised country.
It's costly to have basic decency and morals. |  |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:37 - Aug 12 with 967 views | Reus30 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:33 - Aug 12 by Zx1988 |
Okay then - do you wish to share with us your reasons for being anti-immigrant/refugee?
What is wrong with having a system that can (unlike currently) swiftly assess claimants and then either allow them leave to remain, or deport them?
On the basis that, as Noggin points out, a good 80% of those who arrive and are assessed are found to be legitimate refugees, very few of them are economic migrants in the first place assuming, of course, that your primary objection is to economic migrants.
From my point of view, economic migration is the backbone of the UK economy, be it Dutch weavers settling in East Anglia in the middle-ages, the Windrush generation of the 1950s, or the more recent immigrants upon whom we (and the NHS) rely for so much that we take for granted today.
Whether it's the gentleman who delivers my myriad Amazon purchases, the hospital staff who looked after my great aunt during her treatment for pancreatic cancer, or the many many immigrants from the late 90s/early 2000s who have made successes of themselves, and whom I now count amongst my clients; they all have a part to play in our society, and the nation would be poorer if they were not here. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 15:48]
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I think we should be careful about the term of economic migrant.
As I am one of those myself. | | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:38 - Aug 12 with 960 views | Blueschev |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:29 - Aug 12 by StochesStotasBlewe |
Herein lies the problem. Having an honest conversation without being accused of being racist, far right, very real concerns blah blah. |
The problem is that most people who constantly call for an honest conversation don't actually want one. What they really want is for everyone to validate their anecdotal examples and engrained prejudice without question. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 15:50]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:42 - Aug 12 with 949 views | Blueschev |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:37 - Aug 12 by Reus30 |
I think we should be careful about the term of economic migrant.
As I am one of those myself. |
It's odd that economic migrant is so often used as a derogatory term when it's one of the most consistent characteristics of human behaviour in the history of mankind. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 16:16]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:49 - Aug 12 with 929 views | Zx1988 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:37 - Aug 12 by Reus30 |
I think we should be careful about the term of economic migrant.
As I am one of those myself. |
Thanks Reus - good point. I've amended my original post to add a slightly more nuanced view. | |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:53 - Aug 12 with 905 views | bluejacko |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:06 - Aug 12 by noggin |
Is taking a small boat out to sea illegal in France? How many of these agents would you need 24/7, along the coast? |
You know full well an overload inflatable leaving any shore is illegal. Patrols along the coast would not stop all departures BUT it would at least be a deterrent! | | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:58 - Aug 12 with 868 views | witchdoctor |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:05 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
The last government refused to work with France. Given they’re using all sorts of cheap inflatable dinghies, you’d need a dedicated force full time covering a vast area using incredibly high tech solutions too it seems.
I think a combined force with the French is possible, it depends on what this government can and will commit to.
Ultimately though we are back to the same issue of people happy and willing to die to get here. How do we deal with that? |
that’s what I mean….a full time dedicated force …hopefully this govt can work alongside the French….and maybe the govt could also set up proper reception centres over there to process asylum claims…I’d’ve thought that both these measures wouldn’t cost as much as it does at the moment to look after those that have arrived… |  | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:59 - Aug 12 with 860 views | witchdoctor |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 14:06 - Aug 12 by noggin |
Is taking a small boat out to sea illegal in France? How many of these agents would you need 24/7, along the coast? |
as many as it takes…. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 16:06]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 16:02 - Aug 12 with 831 views | bluejacko |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 13:47 - Aug 12 by Mullet |
That doesn’t stop them. How do you stop the gangs?
Simply dropping people back to France doesn’t stop them trying again. All it does is add another cost to proceedings. |
So what do we do then just throw our hands up in the air and provide the free crossing as now or do you think taking them back would actually be a deterrent?
We have to start somewhere.
Another poster said we were not working with France,what is the £500m given to them and the facilities in Calais all about then?
SmashThe ‘gangs’ what are we going to do drop the SAS in when we find them? Stop one gang and another pops up! | | | |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 16:03 - Aug 12 with 823 views | noggin |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:16 - Aug 12 by onceablue |
And they have left their PTSD wives and children to cope on their own have they.
Nice of them
Or are they single men who are essentially economic migrants.
Let’s have a honest conversation that doesn’t include you calling me a racist or far right |
Crossing continents without visas is both dangerous and expensive. It's only natural that families send the strongest members, as they have the best chance of success. I work with a Syrian refugee who crosses Europe, via Turkey. His family are living in a tent at a refugee camp in Jordan. After 6 years in Norway, he now has a passport and is able to visit them. Even then he has to bribe guards at the camp to let him in to see his parents.
You really don't know how lucky you are. | |
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 16:03 - Aug 12 with 824 views | Zx1988 |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:53 - Aug 12 by bluejacko |
You know full well an overload inflatable leaving any shore is illegal. Patrols along the coast would not stop all departures BUT it would at least be a deterrent! |
If I stick me and five of my chums on a lilo, and take a journey from Felixstowe over to Shotley, what laws am I breaking?
It's certainly a foolhardy endeavour, but I cannot see that it is illegal. [Post edited 12 Aug 2024 16:03]
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| Any gangs smashed yet? on 16:04 - Aug 12 with 817 views | witchdoctor |
| Any gangs smashed yet? on 15:25 - Aug 12 by noggin |
Around 20% have their claim rejected I think. That means as many as 80% are genuine asylum seekers. |
I saw an piece on the telly where a govt official mentioned that figure…to a select committee… however it turns out only about 4% of claims have been processed… | | | |
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