| The 4th goal 22:14 - Oct 28 with 8535 views | FrimleyBlue |
As per the tweet made by someone. It's a good view which does indeed show that neither cb had a chance of heading it.
I have to ask an ex gks here. Why is muric looking at the Brentford player ahead of him rather than the ball...
Genuine question that one as it might be something normal in that situation which may look odd looking at it from the outside but as a keeper completely normal.
|  |
| |  |
| The 4th goal on 09:05 - Oct 29 with 1257 views | Chrisd |
He's looking at the potential danger, but if you look at Muric's feet he doesn't move he just dives from where he has planted them, there's no way he could come for that and is hoping that the defenders get a head on it, due to the wiped delivery. However, if he got a quick half a step in he would have easily got across to tip that around the post. To be fair to him, he wasn't far away from it as it went in, but some quick feet would've made a huge difference, would've made that a comfortable save. Someone else alluded to the fact it was too easy for Brentford to get the cross in, something we have been guilty of the last few seasons in wide areas. [Post edited 29 Oct 2024 18:35]
|  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 09:11 - Oct 29 with 1245 views | MalcolmBlue |
Perspective from a goalkeeper - You have to assume people were in his eye-line when the ball was hit and he didn’t get a good view of the flight of the ball. He reacts quite late, so I imagine this is the only explanation. He is also a big guy so getting down fast is difficult if you see it late.
Also if he did get down to block the cross, number 27 on Brentford was closing in completely unmarked and probably would’ve scored an easy tap in. It’s bad defending all-round, to blame one player is harsh when there are so many lapses of judgement. This is also to be expected with so many changes in the back line.
Davis should’ve done better to stop the cross in the first place and the defensive line is so deep it invites danger. Also as I said before no one was tracking Brentford players for a potential rebound situation. This camera angle doesn’t give any perspective, you need the angle from behind the goal on the full highlights. |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 09:24 - Oct 29 with 1224 views | Garv |
I rate O'Shea but there's a strong argument he should just head it. Unless Muric has made a big call of "keeper's" - and he clearly hasn't - then I don't think the CB should assume the keeper will just collect. I don't think neither CB had a chance of reaching it.
Blame on both sides I think. |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 09:27 - Oct 29 with 1217 views | Guthrum |
| The 4th goal on 09:24 - Oct 29 by Garv |
I rate O'Shea but there's a strong argument he should just head it. Unless Muric has made a big call of "keeper's" - and he clearly hasn't - then I don't think the CB should assume the keeper will just collect. I don't think neither CB had a chance of reaching it.
Blame on both sides I think. |
Tho I think O'Shea might have needed an extendable neck to actually reach it. |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 09:31 - Oct 29 with 1213 views | CrockerITFC |
Davis is facing the wrong way in the build up to this as if he's expecting Mbuemo to go down the channel. His body shape effectively ushers Mbuemo to come inside and when he does he's a yard or two clear from him. That's the problem in my opinion. A goalkeeper is a last line of defence, the cross should never have happened. |  | | |
| Fair comments and I hope you're right on 10:12 - Oct 29 with 1160 views | IPSWICHFANITFC |
| Fair comments and I hope you're right on 08:57 - Oct 29 by Dyland |
And I agree the fourth goal yesterday wasn't THAT bad an error. It's the other stuff, especially distribution, that concerns me. As others have said there is culpability across the whole defence (and midfield) to an extent.
Absolute bum luck losing Greaves and Tuanzebe. |
His distribution has been okay overall. Even Ederson and Allison are prone to the odd clanger.
There was a lovely pass by Muric into Szmodics in the 2nd half on Saturday which got us out of Brentford's press which is a good example of why we bought him but there have been other times he's messed up like one of the goals at City. It's hit and miss and it won't change. He's doing what he's been asked to do. The quality in opposition presses this season will be better than opposition presses in the Championship, but we won't change our style. |  |
| |
| True re other keepers on 10:27 - Oct 29 with 1149 views | Dyland |
| Fair comments and I hope you're right on 10:12 - Oct 29 by IPSWICHFANITFC |
His distribution has been okay overall. Even Ederson and Allison are prone to the odd clanger.
There was a lovely pass by Muric into Szmodics in the 2nd half on Saturday which got us out of Brentford's press which is a good example of why we bought him but there have been other times he's messed up like one of the goals at City. It's hit and miss and it won't change. He's doing what he's been asked to do. The quality in opposition presses this season will be better than opposition presses in the Championship, but we won't change our style. |
I often remark watching other teams how literally the best players in the world fook things up and every game has mistakes in it, all over the pitch but especially defences buckling under the pressure of the press, innit. Tis how the game is played these days innit. |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 10:31 - Oct 29 with 1144 views | VanSaParody |
Not read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned...
Never a professional, but played at a decent level...
As a keeper, you always follow the flight of the ball
Yes, it's easy to be distracted by an attacker who could get a touch, or an unlucky deflection from a defender which could embarrass a keeper
But, I repeat, you follow the flight of the ball so that exactly that DOESN'T happen |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| The 4th goal on 10:52 - Oct 29 with 1110 views | Rimsy |
You can analyse to the nth degree, still doesn't alter the fact it was a massive blunder from Muric. His distribution throughout the game was also shocking. I think it's already obvious that some signings just don't work out, irrespective of the fee and he's not shown he's up to the task. Time to move him on, cut our losses and give Walton an extended run in the team. |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 11:26 - Oct 29 with 1081 views | cambs_blue |
The thing I'd question is why we took Cajuste off at the start of added time.
I know he's coming back from injury but the difference between 91 and 98 minutes could have been worth the risk.
I think having a recognised CM in there could have prevented the mbeumo cross/shot.
We'd looked pretty solid all game when not in transition and i think cajuste was a big part of that. | | | |
| The 4th goal on 11:37 - Oct 29 with 1059 views | Vegtablue |
| The 4th goal on 05:06 - Oct 29 by ibbleobble |
The keeper needs to command the 6-yard box at all times, it’s their domain. If need be, they come through and absolutely clatter the CBs to take the ball. Waiting for a CB to make a decision there is lunacy. It’s a 101 goalkeeping failure. |
I don't think this was an issue of commanding the 6-yard box, which is normally associated with coming forward to claim, and as you say clattering those in the way if needs be, but rather correctly assessing that a save needed to be made. Muric has stopped 13.8% of crosses this season, which is the highest percentage of any keeper in the league; the average is around 6%, with Allison at 4.2% and Ederson at 1.4%. If anything I'd say he's trying to dominate his box too much and is sometimes caught out going for the ball, though the alternative may be our defenders struggling to deal with situations that those in other teams would more comfortably mop up. | | | |
| The 4th goal on 12:03 - Oct 29 with 1041 views | Vegtablue |
| The 4th goal on 11:37 - Oct 29 by Vegtablue |
I don't think this was an issue of commanding the 6-yard box, which is normally associated with coming forward to claim, and as you say clattering those in the way if needs be, but rather correctly assessing that a save needed to be made. Muric has stopped 13.8% of crosses this season, which is the highest percentage of any keeper in the league; the average is around 6%, with Allison at 4.2% and Ederson at 1.4%. If anything I'd say he's trying to dominate his box too much and is sometimes caught out going for the ball, though the alternative may be our defenders struggling to deal with situations that those in other teams would more comfortably mop up. |
I will add that Muric stopped 10.9% of crosses in his full title-winning season for Burnley, ranked 2nd in the Championship that season, and he stopped 14.0% of crosses last season in the PL, ranked 1st of keepers who played 10 games or more. If these numbers come at the cost of sometimes removing yourself from the play, because you've misjudged it and the goal's now wide open, then there isn't much to celebrate here - this isn't intended to be a celebration post - but it does speak to him being the most aggressive / adventurous keeper we've had in a long time, which runs counter to some of the criticism I've read of him so far. Personally I'd like him to try to command his box less and be more conservative in when he does and doesn't try to dominate his area. | | | |
| The 4th goal on 12:08 - Oct 29 with 1016 views | textbackup |
Leif should be showing him to the line, not letting him inside.
O’Shea has to make an attempt atleast to attack that. (Burgess does and it’s clear it’s going over him!)
Muric has to come and claim it, smash through his own player, command his box.
3 things we we’ve ballsed up there.
Possibly 4 if you think Burns head the ball out a few moments before that under no pressure at all. If it runs for a goal kick that’s a bit more time eaten into and this might not happen.
I’d love to sit in the room and hear KMs thoughts on it with the players. I’d also love to see who holds hands up and says ‘that’s on me’ |  |
| |
| The 4th goal on 12:33 - Oct 29 with 976 views | Whos_blue |
There are two positions on the pitch that recieve more scrutiny than the others. No 9 and No 1. At the moment Delap is looking great, so no criticism to him, nor Hirst for that matter.
So to Muric. He isn't here by accident. I don't recall his signing being reported here as a panic buy. Walton was a bit part player last season. Hladky made the shirt his own and had a great season overall, but was prone to errors too. When Walton did get his chance against Fulham, we all remember their first goal.
Walton did well against Liverpool, but there was nervousness around the ground when the team news filtered through he was starting.
Now it seems he is being touted as our goal keeping saviour.
There's a reason Muric hasn't been dropped and that reason is KM. He picks the team he thinks has the best chance of doing well in the game.
I'm not really one for phrases like "the process" etc, but unless we disagree with KM's team selection, we have to accept Muric is our No 1. That may change, that may not, but what doesn't help is some of the vitriol some of our fans are aiming at him. If we create an atmosphere of nervousness or worse still start to jeer his play, that really isn't going to help.
He wasn't at fault for either Everton goal and in fact pulled off 3 fine saves. I'm not even sure he could be considered at fault for 3 of the 4 goals against Brentford. The circumstances and the timing of the goal have brought with it additional scrutiny. Delap's 2nd effort goes in and I think the narrative is all about an incredible equaliser, rather than a supposed goalkeeping blunder.
There seem to be a few armchair goalkeeping experts here and whilst everyone is welcome to cast an opinion, I think I'll continue to stick with KM and his opinion that a professional footballer with over 140 appearances, 20+ of those at international level is currently our best option.
Sadly, as a fan base we've found ourselves sucked into the world of forensic analysis of every last activity on and off the pitch.
This season is going to be tough enough as it is, but I fear that some here are going to find it excrutiating. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
| |
| The 4th goal on 12:41 - Oct 29 with 965 views | RobTheMonk |
| The 4th goal on 10:31 - Oct 29 by VanSaParody |
Not read through the entire thread, so apologies if this has already been mentioned...
Never a professional, but played at a decent level...
As a keeper, you always follow the flight of the ball
Yes, it's easy to be distracted by an attacker who could get a touch, or an unlucky deflection from a defender which could embarrass a keeper
But, I repeat, you follow the flight of the ball so that exactly that DOESN'T happen |
I think it can be forgiven if there were lots of runners going across the keepers eyeline, but I don't know what he's doing with his positioning and movement in this case. |  | | |
| The 4th goal on 12:43 - Oct 29 with 952 views | Hugoagogo_Reborn |
| The 4th goal on 12:20 - Oct 29 by FrimleyBlue |
How many games need to be played for it not to be a knee jerk reaction. Just so I can keep my thoughts on him to myself from now on until that moment allows. |
'Move a player on', after a quarter of a season. Can you not see how ridiculous that suggestion is?! |  | | |
| The 4th goal on 12:49 - Oct 29 with 919 views | Vegtablue |
| The 4th goal on 12:20 - Oct 29 by FrimleyBlue |
How many games need to be played for it not to be a knee jerk reaction. Just so I can keep my thoughts on him to myself from now on until that moment allows. |
You're perfectly entitled to voice your criticism as far as I'm concerned, but you post so often in a day that after a period it reads like you have a vendetta, as felt the case with a previous player. Exploring in depth how anyone could hold a view different to your own, repeating your critical opinion on every thread relating to the player, creating new threads about the same player, in the attempt to convince others that you're correct about how bad someone is to your mind; it's different to when others lay into someone and then they've said their piece. Textbackup couldn't have been more savage about Johnson for instance, but he didn't then dominate the space with volume of threads restating his thoughts. It doesn't bother me but I've often been told I'm overly tolerant! My advice would be that you've provided a comprehensive opinion on Muric for now (as little as my advice may count for lol). | | | |
| The 4th goal on 13:26 - Oct 29 with 850 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The 4th goal on 12:49 - Oct 29 by Vegtablue |
You're perfectly entitled to voice your criticism as far as I'm concerned, but you post so often in a day that after a period it reads like you have a vendetta, as felt the case with a previous player. Exploring in depth how anyone could hold a view different to your own, repeating your critical opinion on every thread relating to the player, creating new threads about the same player, in the attempt to convince others that you're correct about how bad someone is to your mind; it's different to when others lay into someone and then they've said their piece. Textbackup couldn't have been more savage about Johnson for instance, but he didn't then dominate the space with volume of threads restating his thoughts. It doesn't bother me but I've often been told I'm overly tolerant! My advice would be that you've provided a comprehensive opinion on Muric for now (as little as my advice may count for lol). |
That was quite long winded without an answer to my question. I don't care personally about what you think if my posts. If they fall into a certain category then the owners will let me know. I also have posted less about certain players than some other users so I'm comfortable that I'm not falling into the vendetta rubbish.
Also my OP isn't a swipe at muric either. And neither was the one the other day too.
However my actual question was just on your post to the other poster about it being a knee jerk reaction. It's just asking how many games can pass before something is no longer a knee jerk reaction. Forget Muric. Im just interested in how many games can pass for posters to form opinions that aren't seen as knee jerk reactions. [Post edited 29 Oct 2024 13:31]
| |
| |
| The 4th goal on 13:33 - Oct 29 with 835 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The 4th goal on 12:43 - Oct 29 by Hugoagogo_Reborn |
'Move a player on', after a quarter of a season. Can you not see how ridiculous that suggestion is?! |
Maybe they just mean sub them?
If its moving on as in selling then yeah maybe ott right now. | |
| |
| The 4th goal on 13:35 - Oct 29 with 822 views | HighgateBlue |
| The 4th goal on 07:22 - Oct 29 by tcblue |
There's barely a week which goes by where a keeper isn't done by one of these. You get taught to anticipate a touch; you look even more foolish if you dive for the 'cross shot'.
Vilifying one person for all the woes isn't fair on the person, nor the team. There's plenty of criticism to be shared across our back seven this season. |
It really is an excellent ball. Now, sure, we're seeing it from front on, rather than side on, as those of us who were at the ground did too. But still, two facts are clear:
i) the ball goes way over Burgess' head; and
ii) the ball lands virtually on the line.
Seeing it from front on does exaggerate to which it got up and then down quickly. But still, to evade Burgess aerially, by quite some distance and then to land so low, it was a devillish ball. It's an error from Muric alright, and he must know that his place is rightly under scrutiny, but I think it was just so hard to deal with. If he knows that it's a shot, and nobody will be getting on the end of it, then fine, he probably saves it. But as many have said, he's having to anticipate it as a cross. Dip, spin, placement. A devillish but not impossible ball to save.
I'm not sure whether you'd count it as clinical finishing given that it may well have been intended as a cross, but Brentford were pretty clinical, and if we had been when we were 2-0 up, we wouldn't have lost that match. |  | | |
| The 4th goal on 13:40 - Oct 29 with 809 views | longtimefan |
| The 4th goal on 11:26 - Oct 29 by cambs_blue |
The thing I'd question is why we took Cajuste off at the start of added time.
I know he's coming back from injury but the difference between 91 and 98 minutes could have been worth the risk.
I think having a recognised CM in there could have prevented the mbeumo cross/shot.
We'd looked pretty solid all game when not in transition and i think cajuste was a big part of that. |
I think the issue is more the fact that the cross that led to the goal wasn't the first time it happened. It was at least the third time that Mbeumo had tried it, the previous ones did in fact go straight out of play or were stopped by Muric outside the frame of the goal. We really shouldn't be letting crosses come in so easily. | | | |
| The 4th goal on 13:42 - Oct 29 with 805 views | itfcsuth |
As an ex GK, I can promise they are seriously tricky to deal with.
Of course when they go past everybody with no touch it doesn't look great, but you are naturally as a keeper just waiting and trying to anticipate a touch from the attacker there |  | | |
| The 4th goal on 13:43 - Oct 29 with 802 views | FrimleyBlue |
| The 4th goal on 13:40 - Oct 29 by longtimefan |
I think the issue is more the fact that the cross that led to the goal wasn't the first time it happened. It was at least the third time that Mbeumo had tried it, the previous ones did in fact go straight out of play or were stopped by Muric outside the frame of the goal. We really shouldn't be letting crosses come in so easily. |
You'd guess with the likes of Oshea and Burgess in the box KM would be OK with crosses into the box as they should be easy game for us to mop up.
Suppose it's the risk you take of that one cross falling somewhere you don't want it. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
