| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! 16:56 - Nov 8 with 3148 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
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| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:00 - Nov 8 with 3097 views | positivity |
i hope it's just her failing to prepare rather than a tactic of lying and repeating the lie in the hope that someone believes it... |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:07 - Nov 8 with 3050 views | NedPlimpton |
Meet the new opposition boss, same as the old opposition boss....
And the one before that, and the one before that etc etc |  | | |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:20 - Nov 8 with 2985 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:07 - Nov 8 by NedPlimpton |
Meet the new opposition boss, same as the old opposition boss....
And the one before that, and the one before that etc etc |
Sorry downarrowed thinking you meant Labour when in opposition, but now, on reflection, I think you mean Rishi. Although I don't remember him forgetting something/failing to prepare quite as badly as that. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:23 - Nov 8 with 2963 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:00 - Nov 8 by positivity |
i hope it's just her failing to prepare rather than a tactic of lying and repeating the lie in the hope that someone believes it... |
She's a track record of not being informed/prepared/particularly intelligent in interviews, so it's probably incompetence rather than lying. Although she's got a track record of lying too, so who knows  |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:35 - Nov 8 with 2882 views | NthQldITFC |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:00 - Nov 8 by positivity |
i hope it's just her failing to prepare rather than a tactic of lying and repeating the lie in the hope that someone believes it... |
Sounds familiar... |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:38 - Nov 8 with 2857 views | homer_123 |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 17:35 - Nov 8 by NthQldITFC |
Sounds familiar... |
Liar!  |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 19:29 - Nov 8 with 2633 views | Help |
Like I said if she makes the next election I will be surprised |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 07:52 - Nov 9 with 2295 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
Weird that this has only had 8 replies... and none of the Tory boys have commented.
If Starmer had done this we'd be at about 10 pages by now! | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:16 - Nov 9 with 2236 views | Churchman |
I doubt the government are serious about defence. Strategic Reviews usually mean a lot of waffling, delay then cuts. It has done for decades by all parties and I doubt that’ll change. Putin’s threat? It’ll be ignored, just as Hitler’s was by the majority of politicians in the 1930s.
But back to the point in hand, Badenoch looks to be seeking a new low in tory leadership competence. You’d have thought she’d have done her homework; prepared a bit but nah, why bother with that? She really doesn’t strike me as the sharpest chisel in the box
The sadness is we really do need a competent, challenging opposition to hold the government’s feet to the flames. Instead we have the remains of the morally and intellectually bankrupt tories. They’re totally irrelevant.
I give KB three years - she’ll be dumped before the next election when the Tory fossils realise they’re going to have even less seats next time. Roll in the next one, rinse and repeat, just as they did in the 90s/2000s. [Post edited 9 Nov 2024 8:18]
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:34 - Nov 9 with 2164 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:16 - Nov 9 by Churchman |
I doubt the government are serious about defence. Strategic Reviews usually mean a lot of waffling, delay then cuts. It has done for decades by all parties and I doubt that’ll change. Putin’s threat? It’ll be ignored, just as Hitler’s was by the majority of politicians in the 1930s.
But back to the point in hand, Badenoch looks to be seeking a new low in tory leadership competence. You’d have thought she’d have done her homework; prepared a bit but nah, why bother with that? She really doesn’t strike me as the sharpest chisel in the box
The sadness is we really do need a competent, challenging opposition to hold the government’s feet to the flames. Instead we have the remains of the morally and intellectually bankrupt tories. They’re totally irrelevant.
I give KB three years - she’ll be dumped before the next election when the Tory fossils realise they’re going to have even less seats next time. Roll in the next one, rinse and repeat, just as they did in the 90s/2000s. [Post edited 9 Nov 2024 8:18]
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I disagree on the seriousness about defence - I think you're just so used to Tory Strategic Reviews! Labour are showing signs they are actually going to do stuff (even if some don't like it). I disagree on Putin too. I think all parties are concerned - they just don't know what to do about it. It's not being ignored.
In terms of Tory incompetence, yep, it seems to be more of the same. They change leaders more times than Watford change managers.
Badenoch didn't even have to do much research - just watch the bloody budget. It's not that difficult, even I did it!
I'd love to see how she responded after this clip, don't suppose anyone has it? I wonder if she held her hands up or doubled down and said something along the lines of "I meant they didn't say anything of substance".
And I agree we need a decent opposition to challenge things. Shame Rory Stewart left to do a podcast, he was one half decent Tory. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:40 - Nov 9 with 2135 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 07:52 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Weird that this has only had 8 replies... and none of the Tory boys have commented.
If Starmer had done this we'd be at about 10 pages by now! |
I would imagine the lack of replies is down to
A) KB being the leader of a very small opposition with no real chance of gaining power. So probably a bit meh.
B) unlike the debates over the budget, changes in taxation, NIC’s contributions and other measures, what she said has very little effect on people’s daily lives.
C) on the whole, Keir Starmer is doing a decent job and as leader of the Labour Patty for nearly five years is far more polished and unlikely to make the same misstep as somebody who has been in the job less than a week.
Sorry your thread didn’t get as much attention as you believed it deserved. |  |
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| Everyone’s got you on ignore mate…. on 08:42 - Nov 9 with 2109 views | Bloots |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 07:52 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Weird that this has only had 8 replies... and none of the Tory boys have commented.
If Starmer had done this we'd be at about 10 pages by now! |
….apart from me of course.
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:52 - Nov 9 with 2083 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:40 - Nov 9 by GlasgowBlue |
I would imagine the lack of replies is down to
A) KB being the leader of a very small opposition with no real chance of gaining power. So probably a bit meh.
B) unlike the debates over the budget, changes in taxation, NIC’s contributions and other measures, what she said has very little effect on people’s daily lives.
C) on the whole, Keir Starmer is doing a decent job and as leader of the Labour Patty for nearly five years is far more polished and unlikely to make the same misstep as somebody who has been in the job less than a week.
Sorry your thread didn’t get as much attention as you believed it deserved. |
It's not about any attention my thread deserved - it's had plenty of views.
B) Doesn't usually seem to be a problem on here. As I said, if it were Starmer (or anyone from Labour frankly) they'd be chomping at the bit.
And as regards C) - I don't think you need years of experience, and I don't think being in the job less than a week is much of an excuse. She's commenting on the budget, the biggest political thing in this country at the moment. I'd have thought someone on work experience would know what was mentioned in it, let alone the leader of the opposition. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:56 - Nov 9 with 2067 views | Dubtractor |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:52 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It's not about any attention my thread deserved - it's had plenty of views.
B) Doesn't usually seem to be a problem on here. As I said, if it were Starmer (or anyone from Labour frankly) they'd be chomping at the bit.
And as regards C) - I don't think you need years of experience, and I don't think being in the job less than a week is much of an excuse. She's commenting on the budget, the biggest political thing in this country at the moment. I'd have thought someone on work experience would know what was mentioned in it, let alone the leader of the opposition. |
Couple of things.
Badenoch being a bit rubbish isn't really a surprise to anyone, so not really a talking point. Even those who broadly support her on here caveat that with an admission that she is rough around the edges and a work in progress.
The party in opposition always get less attention than the party in power - frankly it doesn't really matter if the opposition come out with nonsense as it is largely of little consequence. For comparison, we had loads of threads about the tories when Johnson and Truss were at the wheel, probably less so with Sunak who largely just kept his head down. |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 09:04 - Nov 9 with 2026 views | Plums |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:56 - Nov 9 by Dubtractor |
Couple of things.
Badenoch being a bit rubbish isn't really a surprise to anyone, so not really a talking point. Even those who broadly support her on here caveat that with an admission that she is rough around the edges and a work in progress.
The party in opposition always get less attention than the party in power - frankly it doesn't really matter if the opposition come out with nonsense as it is largely of little consequence. For comparison, we had loads of threads about the tories when Johnson and Truss were at the wheel, probably less so with Sunak who largely just kept his head down. |
They didn't appear to get less attention on Question time the other night! The four person panel included Matt Vickers and Tim Montgomerie.
How on earth that programme keeps getting away with it is astonishing. |  |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 09:47 - Nov 9 with 1907 views | Dubtractor |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 09:04 - Nov 9 by Plums |
They didn't appear to get less attention on Question time the other night! The four person panel included Matt Vickers and Tim Montgomerie.
How on earth that programme keeps getting away with it is astonishing. |
I stopped watching that a few years ago - dreadful programme these days. Either loaded with right wing commentators, or a token left wing comedian to give 'balance'. | |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 10:37 - Nov 9 with 1798 views | Churchman |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 08:34 - Nov 9 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I disagree on the seriousness about defence - I think you're just so used to Tory Strategic Reviews! Labour are showing signs they are actually going to do stuff (even if some don't like it). I disagree on Putin too. I think all parties are concerned - they just don't know what to do about it. It's not being ignored.
In terms of Tory incompetence, yep, it seems to be more of the same. They change leaders more times than Watford change managers.
Badenoch didn't even have to do much research - just watch the bloody budget. It's not that difficult, even I did it!
I'd love to see how she responded after this clip, don't suppose anyone has it? I wonder if she held her hands up or doubled down and said something along the lines of "I meant they didn't say anything of substance".
And I agree we need a decent opposition to challenge things. Shame Rory Stewart left to do a podcast, he was one half decent Tory. |
U.K. spends just over £50bn a year on defence. Sounds a lot, but with new forms of threat emerging all the time it really isn’t. The cynic in me says that a strategic review is just a way of buying time while flogging stuff off. I just don’t think they are serious or see the threat - or the threat is so great they’ve just shoved their heads in the sand. This applies to politicians going back 100 years.
In recent times, the end of the Cold War was deemed peace dividend and get rid time. I don’t think they’re out of that mindset. When Putin reneged on the deal that saw Ukraine give up nuclear weapons and nabbed Crimea, what did the Tories do? Nothing. Zippo, which given the U.K. was a signatory to that agreement was a total disgrace. Were they bothered about Putin’s threat? Nope.
When Russia conducted the poisoning escapade in Salisbury, the response? Hand wringing and oh well never mind. What shall we ditch next? Oh, I know let’s treat servicemen like dirt so they all leave (which is why army numbers will reduce by around 20% this year).
None of this was on Starmer’s watch. In fact he was as strident as anyone when Putin started munching the rest of Ukraine, possibly because unlike lots of the Tories he and his mob hadn’t received ‘donations’ from them.
So is he/they serious about defence? I doubt it, but it’s very unfair of me to condemn them now - the proof one way or another will come further down the line.
I think the threats and deficiencies are there for all to see. Some stuff we do well, some we don’t. Like everything else, it’s not just about money, it’s also about control. Reviews usually mean cuts or at best inaction. Look at things like runways at Heathrow and Gatwick. Everyone knows what’s needed and airport provision has been subject to reviews and commissions since the 1960s. What’s happened in 50 years? Nothing.
It’s this sort of thing that makes me cynical, possibly unfairly, about the governments latest review. I hope I’m wrong because in me view if Putin sees the west, beyond Poland, Finland, Latvia and Greece is serious about this, he will back off - in my opinion. An interesting government paper about defence spending is attached.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-defence-spending-2-5-of-gdp-target/ [Post edited 9 Nov 2024 10:47]
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 10:42 - Nov 9 with 1786 views | Whos_blue |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 09:47 - Nov 9 by Dubtractor |
I stopped watching that a few years ago - dreadful programme these days. Either loaded with right wing commentators, or a token left wing comedian to give 'balance'. |
Don't even get the token left winger these days. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 10:48 - Nov 9 with 1753 views | Churchman |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 09:47 - Nov 9 by Dubtractor |
I stopped watching that a few years ago - dreadful programme these days. Either loaded with right wing commentators, or a token left wing comedian to give 'balance'. |
Same here. Awful programme that offers absolutely nothing. I used to quite enjoy it years ago. | | | |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 12:29 - Nov 9 with 1665 views | Plums |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 10:37 - Nov 9 by Churchman |
U.K. spends just over £50bn a year on defence. Sounds a lot, but with new forms of threat emerging all the time it really isn’t. The cynic in me says that a strategic review is just a way of buying time while flogging stuff off. I just don’t think they are serious or see the threat - or the threat is so great they’ve just shoved their heads in the sand. This applies to politicians going back 100 years.
In recent times, the end of the Cold War was deemed peace dividend and get rid time. I don’t think they’re out of that mindset. When Putin reneged on the deal that saw Ukraine give up nuclear weapons and nabbed Crimea, what did the Tories do? Nothing. Zippo, which given the U.K. was a signatory to that agreement was a total disgrace. Were they bothered about Putin’s threat? Nope.
When Russia conducted the poisoning escapade in Salisbury, the response? Hand wringing and oh well never mind. What shall we ditch next? Oh, I know let’s treat servicemen like dirt so they all leave (which is why army numbers will reduce by around 20% this year).
None of this was on Starmer’s watch. In fact he was as strident as anyone when Putin started munching the rest of Ukraine, possibly because unlike lots of the Tories he and his mob hadn’t received ‘donations’ from them.
So is he/they serious about defence? I doubt it, but it’s very unfair of me to condemn them now - the proof one way or another will come further down the line.
I think the threats and deficiencies are there for all to see. Some stuff we do well, some we don’t. Like everything else, it’s not just about money, it’s also about control. Reviews usually mean cuts or at best inaction. Look at things like runways at Heathrow and Gatwick. Everyone knows what’s needed and airport provision has been subject to reviews and commissions since the 1960s. What’s happened in 50 years? Nothing.
It’s this sort of thing that makes me cynical, possibly unfairly, about the governments latest review. I hope I’m wrong because in me view if Putin sees the west, beyond Poland, Finland, Latvia and Greece is serious about this, he will back off - in my opinion. An interesting government paper about defence spending is attached.
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-defence-spending-2-5-of-gdp-target/ [Post edited 9 Nov 2024 10:47]
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I completely agree with what you've said there but what I don't understand is why defence and its importance is always measured in monetary terms rather than outcomes and capabilities. We've spent vast sums on aircraft carriers which are all about posture and very little about practical use.
As Ukraine have shown, the modern transparent battlefield means they were probably obsolete before they left the drawing board.
Rather than waving tenners around, I think a nation of our size should be talking in terms of what we're able to do and want to do with our military. | |
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| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 12:47 - Nov 9 with 1624 views | EdwardStone |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 10:48 - Nov 9 by Churchman |
Same here. Awful programme that offers absolutely nothing. I used to quite enjoy it years ago. |
My mental health has improved no end since I stopped watching a few years back
Although an Iain Lee pastiche of the format did give the immortal line as he was pointing into the (imaginary) audience trying to indicate who he wished to talk to....
" The large sweaty woman in the pink cardigan sat next to the unpleasant-looking rat-faced man" |  | | |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 14:50 - Nov 9 with 1486 views | Churchman |
| Oh dear Kemi, not the best of starts! on 12:29 - Nov 9 by Plums |
I completely agree with what you've said there but what I don't understand is why defence and its importance is always measured in monetary terms rather than outcomes and capabilities. We've spent vast sums on aircraft carriers which are all about posture and very little about practical use.
As Ukraine have shown, the modern transparent battlefield means they were probably obsolete before they left the drawing board.
Rather than waving tenners around, I think a nation of our size should be talking in terms of what we're able to do and want to do with our military. |
I agree with you. It very much should be driven by what we want it to be capable of doing, how we get there and embracing change.
But first, Labour have to be serious about defence. Historically it’s always been at odds with itself on this including the run up to WW2 where it repeatedly voted against rearmament, even after Chamberlain’s infamous bit of paper.
Maybe they are and I certainly should not question them or criticise before we know where they’re at on it. | | | |
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