| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? 09:15 - Nov 13 with 4485 views | Keno |
sorry if I missed it but I havent seen it discussed on here.
For my part I'm broadly in favour subject to certain safe guards around possible coercion.
I think people should have some degree of choice in these awful situations |  |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:22 - Nov 13 with 3409 views | bluelagos |
Yep, similar.
Safe guards are very important but the idea that people (if of sound mind) who are in pain at the end of their lives should be denied the right to choose how and when they die, is inhumane.
Am a little disappointed the govt. hasn't sponsored the bill to ensure more thorough debate/challenge and I suspect it will fail due to some MPs taking the view that the bill needs more scrutiny rather than them being strongly against assisted dying. |  |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:27 - Nov 13 with 3372 views | Churchman |
Agree 100%. |  | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:28 - Nov 13 with 3378 views | Basuco |
I am also broadly in favour of it, there are some real nasty medical conditions that give a slow painful and horrible death, as far as we have been told so far there will be safe guards in place that sound good to me. My only concern is protect elderly or ill people who feel they are a Burden on their family or friends looking after them, this should not be a reason to end a life. It is a difficult one, with many issues that need to be looked at, which I feel the Government bill is trying to cover as many of these as possible. |  | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:30 - Nov 13 with 3360 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
It's a tricky one isn't it? You don't want people to suffer... but then you don't want a situation where there's, as you say, coercion... or someone feeling like they're a burden.
I'm in favour if you can limit those issues in some way. I don't know what the plan is, but if it was something you had to apply for and your case assessed by independent experts, then I guess it could work. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:44 - Nov 13 with 3318 views | redrickstuhaart |
Utterly stupid snd obnoxious comment which is outright offensive to those with lived ones facing these situations. How are you still here? |  | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:57 - Nov 13 with 3257 views | bsw72 |
Unpleasant and juvenile comment. |  | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:58 - Nov 13 with 3264 views | Vegtablue |
Having lived through a death in which the suffering was inhumane in my opinion - palliative care can only do so much and towards the end it barely scratched the sides, we wouldn't have put our cherished pets or any other animal through those levels of pain, it would be inconceivable - I am in favour. | | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:06 - Nov 13 with 3225 views | Keno |
thats crass even for you | |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:36 - Nov 13 with 3123 views | DJR |
I have misgivings not least because of what seems to me to be undue haste.
Of course, there are issues like coercion and mission creep in the future to think about as well, but I think we also have to be wary given the response of those in the disabled community to this.
The following statement from Disability Rights UK, and especially the sentence "Assistance to die should not be easier to access than assistance to live", suggests to me that we ought to stop to consider.
"Our focus as a society should be to ensure that all citizens live well. This is not the case at present. Disabled people and those with health conditions find ourselves battling to get NHS treatments, receiving inadequate care and support and having limited access to palliative care.
The UK Government has been found guilty of ‘grave and systematic’ violations of Disabled people’s rights by the United Nations. This includes an increase in the reliance on institutionalisation, limiting our access to basic necessities, and dehumanising us as 'economic burdens' on society.
The COVID-19 pandemic vividly demonstrated the fragility of our rights in the UK as blanket Do Not Attempt Resuscitation notices were used, and our access to critical care was denied. 60% of COVID deaths were those of Disabled people.
Assistance to die should not be easier to access than assistance to live. Parliament and Government should not allow assisted dying when political choices undermine our lives, and rights, every day.
We recognise this is an issue many feel strongly about, and not everybody (including some Disabled people) will agree with our position.
However, until access to good quality support and services become the norm, we believe that opting for assisted dying may not be a real choice, and the proposed change in the law poses a danger to Disabled people." [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 10:38]
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:42 - Nov 13 with 3097 views | Ryorry |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:58 - Nov 13 by Vegtablue |
Having lived through a death in which the suffering was inhumane in my opinion - palliative care can only do so much and towards the end it barely scratched the sides, we wouldn't have put our cherished pets or any other animal through those levels of pain, it would be inconceivable - I am in favour. |
As I’ve said before on this, having been asked to assist by someone who was neither terminally ill nor in great pain, but was depressed following a bereavement; and who still managed to find 2 doctors in London willing to “sign them off” -
1. I’ve yet to hear of any pet leaving anyone £hundreds of thousands in their will
2. Every ‘case’ is different and should be judged individually.
However, I’m more inclined to agree with this bill as it introduces the further check of having to pass a judge’s scrutiny, it’s what I’d want for myself - and should include some conditions that many would consider unbearable but not terminal, imho. |  |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:44 - Nov 13 with 3076 views | BloomBlue |
I thought the vote was planned for Nov 29th. But even with a yes vote it will still have to go to a committee, HoL etc etc, so it will probably be pushed back until after this paraliament has ended in approx 5 years. |  | | |
| “Live and let die” (n/t) on 10:51 - Nov 13 with 3019 views | Bloots |
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| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:57 - Nov 13 with 2935 views | bluelagos |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:28 - Nov 13 by Basuco |
I am also broadly in favour of it, there are some real nasty medical conditions that give a slow painful and horrible death, as far as we have been told so far there will be safe guards in place that sound good to me. My only concern is protect elderly or ill people who feel they are a Burden on their family or friends looking after them, this should not be a reason to end a life. It is a difficult one, with many issues that need to be looked at, which I feel the Government bill is trying to cover as many of these as possible. |
It's a private bill, not a govt one.
The govt has given it time and is allowing it's MPs a free vote. Some ministers will support, some will vote against. | |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:58 - Nov 13 with 2926 views | Vegtablue |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:42 - Nov 13 by Ryorry |
As I’ve said before on this, having been asked to assist by someone who was neither terminally ill nor in great pain, but was depressed following a bereavement; and who still managed to find 2 doctors in London willing to “sign them off” -
1. I’ve yet to hear of any pet leaving anyone £hundreds of thousands in their will
2. Every ‘case’ is different and should be judged individually.
However, I’m more inclined to agree with this bill as it introduces the further check of having to pass a judge’s scrutiny, it’s what I’d want for myself - and should include some conditions that many would consider unbearable but not terminal, imho. |
Very different experiences for sure and I fully agree on the importance of safeguards. | | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:06 - Nov 13 with 2789 views | DJR |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 10:42 - Nov 13 by Ryorry |
As I’ve said before on this, having been asked to assist by someone who was neither terminally ill nor in great pain, but was depressed following a bereavement; and who still managed to find 2 doctors in London willing to “sign them off” -
1. I’ve yet to hear of any pet leaving anyone £hundreds of thousands in their will
2. Every ‘case’ is different and should be judged individually.
However, I’m more inclined to agree with this bill as it introduces the further check of having to pass a judge’s scrutiny, it’s what I’d want for myself - and should include some conditions that many would consider unbearable but not terminal, imho. |
I suppose your last paragraph begs the question unbearable for whom, the cared for or carer?
As it is, the Bill does not have any requirement for there to be pain or suffering, with the result that a disabled person with a terminal illness who felt they had been a burden on their parents for the whole of their life might choose to end things early to relieve that burden, and the doctors and court would be none the wiser. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 11:07]
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:14 - Nov 13 with 2744 views | Ryorry |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:06 - Nov 13 by DJR |
I suppose your last paragraph begs the question unbearable for whom, the cared for or carer?
As it is, the Bill does not have any requirement for there to be pain or suffering, with the result that a disabled person with a terminal illness who felt they had been a burden on their parents for the whole of their life might choose to end things early to relieve that burden, and the doctors and court would be none the wiser. [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 11:07]
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100% the ill/ disabled person, I’d have hoped it was obvious that was what I meant.
I think there are some medical conditions which make the suffering of the affected person involved obvious.
Still agree with the need for mega strong checks of course. | |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:15 - Nov 13 with 2738 views | DJR |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:14 - Nov 13 by Ryorry |
100% the ill/ disabled person, I’d have hoped it was obvious that was what I meant.
I think there are some medical conditions which make the suffering of the affected person involved obvious.
Still agree with the need for mega strong checks of course. |
Sorry, I wasn't trying to pick you up, as I think we are singing from the same song sheet. | | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 11:33 - Nov 13 with 2645 views | DJR |
As if to emphasise the point I made about undue haste, this is from Kitty Donaldson in the i Paper.
Analysis by i a month ago, when the idea was being debated only in principle, found 54 per cent of MPs currently expressing a degree of support for the legislation, while 35 per cent were opposed and 11 per cent were undecided.
But since the bill was published this week more MPs are expressing their doubts about the legislation, with many citing the concern that although private members’ bills are subject to the same stages as any other legislation, less time is allocated to them in parliament, meaning they are often discussed in significantly less detail before a vote …
Whether [Keir] Starmer’s support in principle means he will end up voting for the bill is another matter. “It’s a big political risk for the PM when his justice and health secretaries aren’t in favour,” one MP told i. “How does it interplay with the NHS? What if it goes wrong? How can he be the one to oversee it? I’d be very surprised if he ended up voting in favour – he can tell the world he helped facilitate the vote and say parliament made its decision to block it. | | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 12:22 - Nov 13 with 2452 views | PhilTWTD |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 09:58 - Nov 13 by Vegtablue |
Having lived through a death in which the suffering was inhumane in my opinion - palliative care can only do so much and towards the end it barely scratched the sides, we wouldn't have put our cherished pets or any other animal through those levels of pain, it would be inconceivable - I am in favour. |
I had a similar experience with a close relative, who wasted away due to cancer over the course of a year. She would have welcomed being able to bring the misery and pain to an end. |  | | |
| “Live and let die” (n/t) on 12:27 - Nov 13 with 2416 views | blueasfook |
| “Live and let die” (n/t) on 10:51 - Nov 13 by Bloots |
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Baa baaa baaa, baaaaah!! |  |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 12:34 - Nov 13 with 2406 views | blueasfook |
Have long been in favour of it. It's inhumane to make chronically and terminally ill people suffer. But it has to be 100% the patients choice. My only concern would be alzheimers patients. Often by the time its diagnosed they can be in advanced stages of the disease so potentially not considered "of sound mind" to make the decision to die. | |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 14:09 - Nov 13 with 2252 views | Deano69 |
One aspect that doesn't seem to be clear is the position this puts you in with regard to insurances etc. Suicide would ordinarily void Life Insurance policies, I wonder how this would be treated under the event of 'assisted dying'.
Its one of those that has a clear and valid argument for both sides, yet only one can become law. Any form of middle ground would be open to contention and opinion, such as a set of criteria to be met to allow for a 'legal' euthanasia.
It would be awful to have to stand by and watch a loved one suffer with a slow, long painful death so I can certainly see why there is a demand for choice. |  |
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 14:53 - Nov 13 with 2192 views | DJR |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 14:09 - Nov 13 by Deano69 |
One aspect that doesn't seem to be clear is the position this puts you in with regard to insurances etc. Suicide would ordinarily void Life Insurance policies, I wonder how this would be treated under the event of 'assisted dying'.
Its one of those that has a clear and valid argument for both sides, yet only one can become law. Any form of middle ground would be open to contention and opinion, such as a set of criteria to be met to allow for a 'legal' euthanasia.
It would be awful to have to stand by and watch a loved one suffer with a slow, long painful death so I can certainly see why there is a demand for choice. |
That's a very good point.
I have looked at the Bill and there is nothing specific on this point, although the Bill does provide that assisted dying does not involve assisting suicide for the purposes of the Suicide Act.
The answer would appear to lie in insurance company practice, given this from Legal and General.
"If you pass away due to suicide or intentional and serious self-injury within the first year of taking out a life insurance policy, then your life insurance doesn’t cover this. This also applies in cases where, in our reasonable opinion, the insured person took their own life.
By putting this one-year policy in place, we can reduce the financial incentive for someone to tragically take their own life in the hope of triggering a life insurance pay-out, however unimaginable that may seem. Beyond this period of one year, this exclusion doesn't apply and so we will assess all life insurance claims as we would any other claim where someone has passed away." [Post edited 13 Nov 2024 14:58]
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| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 14:55 - Nov 13 with 2176 views | Churchman |
This is such a tough subject, but here goes.
Firstly, I agree with the OP. But it’s complex and difficult.
My mother died in 2018. She broke her pelvis early Dec 2017 and died the following February. She was 92, had a multitude of problems and dementia. But she knew who her family were and who she was. Late January she was fading. Eating and drinking - she just didn’t want it and feigned it if encouraged. It’s actually what happens sometimes when people begin to shut down.
My mother was in constant and ever worsening pain during that period. 10 days before she died she told me every fibre of her being, every hair on her head was in agony. As I held her, if I could have taken that away from her by ending it, I’d have done it for her willingly right there.
I went to see the wonderful staff at Asterbury Care Home who were as ever unfailingly kind. They told me all they were trying to do (drugs, this that and the other) and nobody could do more. One lady was even in on her day off to sit and do what she could. I cut to the chase and said look, I know she’s going to die soon. How long do you think?
We just don’t know and neither do the doctors. 2 weeks to 3 months is all we can say, but not beyond that. A few days later, she tried to end it herself but was too weak to get it done. Monitored, sedated, morphined eventually, she died a few days later.
The key to this too long story (apologies) is that while I was perfectly happy to cut short her pain and would have done it myself necessary, my father and sister certainly would not have understood or accepted it. My dad was in denial and thought palliative care was a few days rest and all would be well, my sister knew the truth but refused to believe it. So in this instance, any form of assisted dying was out of the question.
Last year I saw the saddest, most difficult sights in the hospice, including my father, I wouldn’t wish on anyone or any living thing. I have been present when three of our cats have been put to sleep at the end of their lives and tough though it is, it’s the kindest thing when the options are out. Can you compare pets to people? In some respects of course no, but in others, yes.
I strongly believe there is a place for assisted dying. Quite how you do it and avoid a madman like Shipman or getting rid of people out of convenience etc etc, I don’t know. But the principle is sound. Is life sacrosanct? I think so, but existence for existence sake isn’t in my view. Living is not the above. But that’s how I see it and we are all different.
So yes, in favour. As Keno suggested, it needs rigorous safeguards of course. | | | |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 14:55 - Nov 13 with 2179 views | Ryorry |
| Where are we on the Assisted Dying Bill? on 12:34 - Nov 13 by blueasfook |
Have long been in favour of it. It's inhumane to make chronically and terminally ill people suffer. But it has to be 100% the patients choice. My only concern would be alzheimers patients. Often by the time its diagnosed they can be in advanced stages of the disease so potentially not considered "of sound mind" to make the decision to die. |
Highlights the need for a Living Will for those who think this way -
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/advance-dec | |
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