| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason 14:06 - Dec 2 with 77687 views | chicoazul |
Now that the club has confirmed Morsy chose not to wear the armband, how do our LGBTQ fans feel about this?
Like I say I would continue the interesting conversation we were having but that thread is locked. |  |
| |  |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:21 - Dec 6 with 915 views | Europablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:01 - Dec 6 by tractorboy7777 |
The assumption that it is acceptable for cheating with a person of the same sex is not correct, it is still wrong to cheat. Your reply suggests that the wife cheated during the first relationship but he never said his wife began a same sex relationship after his relationship or whether cheating was involved. She later had further relationships, which straight people find acceptable. You hear of people having multiple relationships all the time, of any sexuality.
By the sounds of it, the female in question perhaps grew up in a society where being lesbian is wrong. There’s no reason to say she didn’t love her husband during their relationship just because her future relationship was with a female. Would you say that she left the future female due to cheating without further knowledge? |
I don't like talking about this directly, because it feels like we are gossiping about a tough experience that he had, so to be respectful and still answer you I'll try and keep it more general.
The phrase "she left me for a woman" implies cheating. Otherwise one would say after I broke up with her she started a relationship with a woman. It all depends on the language used, not the sex of the partner.
Being bisexual is not a reason to leave your partner, it is dishonest and hurtful.
Finally realizing you are gay and leaving a marriage is understandable, but it is still hurtful even if there was no third party involved. We should bear in mind that that is not something to be celebrated. |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:34 - Dec 6 with 873 views | Europablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 20:12 - Dec 5 by Ryorry |
There was an excellent article, written by (iirc) a WW2 veteran a few years ago in the Guardian about why he would no longer be wearing a poppy on Remembrance weekends, but I can’t find it -anyone else have a link? It was well worth a read if you can find it.
Meanwhile, found this, also excellent -
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/08/wear-white-poppy-remembran |
Thank you for that link. It is interesting to see that view and he makes some valid points.
When he says "I believe remembrance should dwell on the tragedy of conscription", I think conscription was a tragedy, but it was necessary at least in WW2 for the survival of the country as a free nation. There was a lot of social pressure to join up and do your bit for the war effort.
I was in the cubs, so I paid my respects to fallen soldiers every year as a child. I have a strong attachment to the red poppy. I wouldn't criticize people for wearing the white poppy instead. It is definitely a discussion to be had. It's a slight tangent, but I get why you brought this up. People are still free to not wear a poppy as they are free not to wear a rainbow armband or whatever. Each person can be challenged on their views. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:40 - Dec 6 with 864 views | urbanpenguin |
It would have been easy for Morsy to have made a statement like Lewis Cook
-----
“What would you imagine if a player was to come out and say ‘I’m LGBT’? How do you think the club would react to that?”
The Bournemouth player replies: “I think football’s come a long way. We’re open to everyone now.
“If someone did do that, especially in our team, everyone would be there with open arms and just support them. I think the football world would as well and it’s a great environment now for people, if they need to.”
-----
Or, indeed, anybody senior at the club could have made a less corporate statement than they did, like Cook's Bournemouth manager:
“It’s important that we realise — in our every day — the small gestures, the small words we say that probably can affect other people.
“And we improve ourselves. Everyone improves, and football becomes an environment where everyone feels safe.”
Some people on this thread could also learn from that last quote.
https://www.outsports.com/2024/12/6/24104797/lewis-cook-bournemouth-premier-leag |  | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:55 - Dec 6 with 824 views | Europablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 21:20 - Dec 5 by DJR |
I wonder if you had similar objections to the Her Game Too campaign.
https://www.itfc.co.uk/news/2022/february/her-game-too-partnership/
“Sexist abuse and misogyny surrounding football has always been a big problem - so one of our biggest aims is to build a safer space for all female supporters.
“We are delighted we can work in partnership with Ipswich Town to raise awareness and create a safe space for female staff & supporters at Portman Road. We would like to thank Ipswich Town FC and their fans for the support." [Post edited 5 Dec 2024 21:26]
|
There does seem to be a certain hierarchy of these things. Racism was addressed first, I've never been at Portman Road and felt like racism was tolerated. When I was young homophobic chanting was very common, but now the campaign is mature and it is almost on par with tolerance of racist chants.
Sexist comments and even chants were the last thing to be addressed and sentiment against them is not as strong, so I do see the need for a specific campaign to exist. Obviously, we have to tread carefully with this kind of thing and remember that watching men's football is still a mostly male pursuit, so we shouldn't be persecuting especially older people because of their outdated views or perhaps just awkward phrasing. We can politely tell them to keep them to themselves when the cases are less serious. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:25 - Dec 6 with 753 views | Vegtablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 01:41 - Dec 6 by NewcyBlue |
The really sad thing is that 35 pages later people that aren’t LGBTQIA+ are telling people that are that they should be more tolerant of intolerance towards them, that they should accept that they will not be accepted, that they should stay quiet and not ask for a small gesture of equality.
That really quite saddens me. |
Just to clarify, as one of the two people on page 35 who were talking about tolerance, that isn't my position at all. I'm sorry for having sparked a tangential discussion on this thread about what tolerance means, if that has upset anyone. I wanted to push back on the notion that intolerant views, like homophobia and transphobia, had to be met with tolerance in order for us to achieve a tolerant society, but the conversation continued from there to cover other ground.
I want to live in a society where we are intolerant of LGBTQIA+ discrimination whenever and wherever we see it. There is live conflict around the edges of trans discrimination vs. cis women's discrimination, in professional sport or vulnerable spaces, and I haven't wanted to create opportunity for bad-faith actors to derail the substance of this topic or to cause any upset, which is why I've largely written about homophobia in my examples, but I certainly include intolerance towards transphobia in the society in which I want to live (where we don't have the conflicts addressed above, which I have no place adjudicating on).
Where I feel the limit of that intolerance exists, personally, is in what people are allowed to think in their heads, and Morsy's freedom to have done what he did. Viable alternatives to that form of tolerance, in practice, would involve denying that person the right to live alongside us until they publicly disavow their thoughts or beliefs. It would need the imposition of penalties, legal or financial, imprisonment, chemical or surgical intervention, and I think even the lightest examples, altering legal status or freezing assets, would be a misstep for our society. Where criminality kicks in is a different story, and I trust wiser heads to create the framework within which we all must operate there. That doesn't mean inability to criticise in the strongest terms, but it does mean inability to stop Morsy returning to his family and living the life he lives. My last post on this thread as I didn't want to be a dominant voice or to offend, but I really didn't want the summary for my beliefs to be what you wrote either. | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:28 - Dec 6 with 743 views | urbanpenguin |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:25 - Dec 6 by Vegtablue |
Just to clarify, as one of the two people on page 35 who were talking about tolerance, that isn't my position at all. I'm sorry for having sparked a tangential discussion on this thread about what tolerance means, if that has upset anyone. I wanted to push back on the notion that intolerant views, like homophobia and transphobia, had to be met with tolerance in order for us to achieve a tolerant society, but the conversation continued from there to cover other ground.
I want to live in a society where we are intolerant of LGBTQIA+ discrimination whenever and wherever we see it. There is live conflict around the edges of trans discrimination vs. cis women's discrimination, in professional sport or vulnerable spaces, and I haven't wanted to create opportunity for bad-faith actors to derail the substance of this topic or to cause any upset, which is why I've largely written about homophobia in my examples, but I certainly include intolerance towards transphobia in the society in which I want to live (where we don't have the conflicts addressed above, which I have no place adjudicating on).
Where I feel the limit of that intolerance exists, personally, is in what people are allowed to think in their heads, and Morsy's freedom to have done what he did. Viable alternatives to that form of tolerance, in practice, would involve denying that person the right to live alongside us until they publicly disavow their thoughts or beliefs. It would need the imposition of penalties, legal or financial, imprisonment, chemical or surgical intervention, and I think even the lightest examples, altering legal status or freezing assets, would be a misstep for our society. Where criminality kicks in is a different story, and I trust wiser heads to create the framework within which we all must operate there. That doesn't mean inability to criticise in the strongest terms, but it does mean inability to stop Morsy returning to his family and living the life he lives. My last post on this thread as I didn't want to be a dominant voice or to offend, but I really didn't want the summary for my beliefs to be what you wrote either. |
For everybody's sake, you don't need to write an essay for every reply. It doesn't make your thoughts any more intelligent or intelligible. And please learn how to paragraph
This isn't the EuropaBlue show, you're not the main character. [Post edited 6 Dec 2024 11:31]
| | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:44 - Dec 6 with 705 views | Europablue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:28 - Dec 6 by urbanpenguin |
For everybody's sake, you don't need to write an essay for every reply. It doesn't make your thoughts any more intelligent or intelligible. And please learn how to paragraph
This isn't the EuropaBlue show, you're not the main character. [Post edited 6 Dec 2024 11:31]
|
Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today or what?
I'm not sure why you felt the need to criticize what was a well thought out summary that you have the ability to just not read.
You should reflect on how you approach people and they might be more receptive to your point of view. Vegtablue is a totally unfair target. I agree with him that it can be a bit obnoxious when two people have a back and forth conversation, that is a feature of the format and Vegtablue was basically yielding the floor to you.
If people want to see less of me on the thread all they have to do is not reply to me or ask me questions and certainly not randomly drop my name to bait me into replying. I guess you get a kick out of the engagement.
Just remember you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Good luck to you. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:46 - Dec 6 with 704 views | DJR |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:55 - Dec 6 by Europablue |
There does seem to be a certain hierarchy of these things. Racism was addressed first, I've never been at Portman Road and felt like racism was tolerated. When I was young homophobic chanting was very common, but now the campaign is mature and it is almost on par with tolerance of racist chants.
Sexist comments and even chants were the last thing to be addressed and sentiment against them is not as strong, so I do see the need for a specific campaign to exist. Obviously, we have to tread carefully with this kind of thing and remember that watching men's football is still a mostly male pursuit, so we shouldn't be persecuting especially older people because of their outdated views or perhaps just awkward phrasing. We can politely tell them to keep them to themselves when the cases are less serious. |
So you support the Her Game Too campaign but not the Rainbow Laces campaign?
What about the current Premier League No Room for Racism campaign? |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:52 - Dec 6 with 676 views | urbanpenguin |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:44 - Dec 6 by Europablue |
Did you get out of the wrong side of the bed today or what?
I'm not sure why you felt the need to criticize what was a well thought out summary that you have the ability to just not read.
You should reflect on how you approach people and they might be more receptive to your point of view. Vegtablue is a totally unfair target. I agree with him that it can be a bit obnoxious when two people have a back and forth conversation, that is a feature of the format and Vegtablue was basically yielding the floor to you.
If people want to see less of me on the thread all they have to do is not reply to me or ask me questions and certainly not randomly drop my name to bait me into replying. I guess you get a kick out of the engagement.
Just remember you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Good luck to you. |
Because you're tiresome and the increasingly long replies are mindnumbing. It's like you think it's a sign of intelligence but really what was an interesting conversation with many voices is now dominated by you, and it is killing the space. I suspect that's your intention.
I teach writing, I'm simply advising you to learn how to paragraph. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:58 - Dec 6 with 654 views | Swansea_Blue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 10:21 - Dec 6 by Europablue |
I don't like talking about this directly, because it feels like we are gossiping about a tough experience that he had, so to be respectful and still answer you I'll try and keep it more general.
The phrase "she left me for a woman" implies cheating. Otherwise one would say after I broke up with her she started a relationship with a woman. It all depends on the language used, not the sex of the partner.
Being bisexual is not a reason to leave your partner, it is dishonest and hurtful.
Finally realizing you are gay and leaving a marriage is understandable, but it is still hurtful even if there was no third party involved. We should bear in mind that that is not something to be celebrated. |
If people are in a broken relationship (irrespective of their gender), leaving it is 100% to be celebrated imo (after trying to make it work of course). Nobody needs to be lessened by being stuck in a relationship that makes them feel miserable and be less than they could be. |  |
| |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:03 - Dec 6 with 639 views | giant_stow |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:52 - Dec 6 by urbanpenguin |
Because you're tiresome and the increasingly long replies are mindnumbing. It's like you think it's a sign of intelligence but really what was an interesting conversation with many voices is now dominated by you, and it is killing the space. I suspect that's your intention.
I teach writing, I'm simply advising you to learn how to paragraph. |
Europa- take the above criticism as helpful feedback. Not to be rude, but I'm scanning past your long paragraphs as they're hard to read, which may be my failing tbf. Accessibility is important though and right now, I would say that your posts aren't |  |
| |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 12:06 - Dec 6 with 627 views | lowhouseblue |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 11:52 - Dec 6 by urbanpenguin |
Because you're tiresome and the increasingly long replies are mindnumbing. It's like you think it's a sign of intelligence but really what was an interesting conversation with many voices is now dominated by you, and it is killing the space. I suspect that's your intention.
I teach writing, I'm simply advising you to learn how to paragraph. |
i do think europablue is seeking to express his views in a careful and considerate manner and is taking time to engage with the criticisms of his arguments. i think the length of posts reflects a desire to forestall counter arguments and misunderstandings. i'm not sure it's fair to attack someone who is engaging decently. if he annoys you stop reading. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:16 - Dec 6 with 585 views | Europablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:46 - Dec 6 by DJR |
So you support the Her Game Too campaign but not the Rainbow Laces campaign?
What about the current Premier League No Room for Racism campaign? |
I'm not too engaged with the Her Game Too campaign, so I wouldn't say I support it. I can see the need for it because as I said, it's not a topic that has had as much focus as racism and homophobia and I am not aware of any problematic group behind Her Game Too.
No Room for Racism is from the Premier League and it is just saying don't abuse people based on their race. There isn't really a political angle to it. The problem with Rainbow Laces is that it isn't at all set up that way. When I googled it the definition was "an annual show of support for the LGBTQ+ community".
It isn't an anti-discrimination campaign which I would support. As I might have mentioned, I prefer a combined campaign like the message before every match on Town TV last season that was something about it being everyone's game and racist, homophobic, and sexist abuse will not be tolerated. That is proper inclusivity. We don't need to make gay inclusive environments, the club should be an inclusive environment full stop.
"LGBTQ+ community" is not a thing, it is just a political grouping based on identity used for strategic purposes. Look into the modern versions of the rainbow flag for more mission creep, not only is the flag ugly, it totally ignores that fact that the rainbow covers all people.
I don't agree with showing support for a political entity. My views are not intended in any way to be hostile to gay people. They are definitely as welcome as any other fan. | | | |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 12:30 - Dec 6 with 551 views | Europablue |
| My armband thread has been locked for whatever reason on 11:58 - Dec 6 by Swansea_Blue |
If people are in a broken relationship (irrespective of their gender), leaving it is 100% to be celebrated imo (after trying to make it work of course). Nobody needs to be lessened by being stuck in a relationship that makes them feel miserable and be less than they could be. |
Wow, that is a big topic to get into and probably too tangential.
I don't know about celebrating leaving a broken relationship if there are children involved. You have to put them first and consider their feelings toward your ex. When you have children they become the purpose for the relationship. In a good relationship, you grow together. Obviously, abuse is a good reason to end a relationship. Whether you child can appropriately have a relationship with your ex determines how you should express negative sentiment to your ex. | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
