| Well said Sam Morsy. 07:47 - Jan 4 with 7737 views | Kieran_Knows |
N/T |  |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:04 - Jan 4 with 1346 views | ipswichtillidie |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:00 - Jan 4 by FoghornGleghorn |
Have there been chants? If so, I've missed them, and it's absolutely right that anyone responsible is called out for that sort of behaviour - but the support at games, where it matters most, has been fantastic.
To the degree that this is about comments online, this is all a bit weird. This isn't like past instances of a relentless campaign of individual criticism of one particular player for no apparent reason; every player in the squad has been subject to differing opinions, it's just that one in particular has made more costly individual mistakes in a season we can't afford to wait for him (or anyone) to learn from them. And even if every Town fan stopped making any comment accordingly (and if Twitter were to mercifully stop existing), that's not going to stop the media and pundits commenting on players' performance, as they always have, it's just what happens. I don't see anyone from the club telling off MotD for slating Davis' individual performance against Newcastle in front of the entire viewing public. |
Pretty much nailed it. |  |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:06 - Jan 4 with 1334 views | Ryorry |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 12:06 - Jan 4 by LankHenners |
Walton gave the ball away as badly as Muric has done at one point in the 2nd half but because Chelsea messed up the gift of an opportunity no-one mentions it.
It's stupid - Morsy's bang on, it's like people are now waiting for any semblance of a mistake (regardless of whether it's completely on him or not) to start hurling abuse and dishing out criticism.
Walton had a good game on Monday but still had a few issues and his kicking wasn't great all the time, plus he wasn't really tested that much from a shot-stopping point of view, but after the game we get all this 'man of the match', 'best GK at the club', 'this is why he should have played before' hyperbolic nonsense. |
Walton probably didn't get criticism because it was only one mistake (whether or not it led to a goal) whereas with Muric it's been several, over at least five games (whether or not they led to goals. The coming off his line so far (was it v. Bournemouth??) was particularly horrible.
(Tho i agree Walts getting Motm was probably a bit ott last Sun). |  |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:09 - Jan 4 with 1305 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:00 - Jan 4 by FoghornGleghorn |
Have there been chants? If so, I've missed them, and it's absolutely right that anyone responsible is called out for that sort of behaviour - but the support at games, where it matters most, has been fantastic.
To the degree that this is about comments online, this is all a bit weird. This isn't like past instances of a relentless campaign of individual criticism of one particular player for no apparent reason; every player in the squad has been subject to differing opinions, it's just that one in particular has made more costly individual mistakes in a season we can't afford to wait for him (or anyone) to learn from them. And even if every Town fan stopped making any comment accordingly (and if Twitter were to mercifully stop existing), that's not going to stop the media and pundits commenting on players' performance, as they always have, it's just what happens. I don't see anyone from the club telling off MotD for slating Davis' individual performance against Newcastle in front of the entire viewing public. |
I've not heard co-ordinated chants, however as I've posted elsewhere, there are shouts of abuse aimed at Muric from the SAR, and others have mentioned it from other stands. What I've heard was very clear, and would have carried to the pitch. Would Muric have heard? Who knows, but it shouldn't happen. What we see online is likely to be reflected from the stands from those so inclined to abuse players in this way.
At the Newcastle match it nearly resulted in a punch up. That's not a great look.
I say again, negative opinion debated respectfully is different the the hounding and witch-hunt we've experienced from some... |  | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:09 - Jan 4 with 1300 views | LankHenners |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:00 - Jan 4 by FoghornGleghorn |
Have there been chants? If so, I've missed them, and it's absolutely right that anyone responsible is called out for that sort of behaviour - but the support at games, where it matters most, has been fantastic.
To the degree that this is about comments online, this is all a bit weird. This isn't like past instances of a relentless campaign of individual criticism of one particular player for no apparent reason; every player in the squad has been subject to differing opinions, it's just that one in particular has made more costly individual mistakes in a season we can't afford to wait for him (or anyone) to learn from them. And even if every Town fan stopped making any comment accordingly (and if Twitter were to mercifully stop existing), that's not going to stop the media and pundits commenting on players' performance, as they always have, it's just what happens. I don't see anyone from the club telling off MotD for slating Davis' individual performance against Newcastle in front of the entire viewing public. |
Pretty obvious why the club would take a harder line on criticism from its own supporters rather than those in the media.
McKenna was asked about those MotD comments and gave a similar answer to his one about Muric anyway. |  |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:18 - Jan 4 with 1251 views | Whos_blue |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 12:17 - Jan 4 by ipswichtillidie |
Part of the game criticism I’m afraid. Always going to be people
Who publicly go over the top, it happens at every club. We are no different. Fair play to Morsy for sticking up for a teammate I wouldn’t expect anything else from a great captain. Doesn’t change the fact that Muric has been poor and is a complete liability in a position where calmness is essentially the main part of his job. He’s finally been dropped, something that was obviously going to happen at some point. Hopefully Walton can continue to step up. I heavily criticised Muric on here, wouldn’t do it at a game and bring that negative atmosphere but on a forum
I believe we all have the right as fans to have our say. It’s a game of opinions after all..
coyb |
Opinions you say?
"A complete liability".
Don't agree with that one. |  |
| Distortion becomes somehow pure in its wildness. |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:21 - Jan 4 with 1218 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 12:21 - Jan 4 by ipswichtillidie |
What gives you the right to tell anyone to get out of the club. Most ridiculous comment I’ve seen in a while. People are entitled to criticise who they like it’s part of the game. Get over yourself. |
Yes, of course people are entitled to criticise who they like, it IS part of the game and from a wider perspective it's an essential component of any individual from a demographic country's right to free speech.
But tribalism is also an essential part of football. We back every member of our tribe in almost every situation as it provides the strength in unity among the group that has served this club so well since KMcK's arrival.
We all know the limitations (and strengths) in Aro's game, including Kieran and even Muric himself, so what good does exercising your right to voice your critical opinions on a message board do? No good at all.
People need to see the bigger picture here. When our captain says what he has about the situation, he's telling us to be tribal. It's polite speak for "put your valid and rational criticism aside, it's not helping the team you claim to support and STFU."
"We're the finest football team, the world has ever seen." |  | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:24 - Jan 4 with 1191 views | stonojnr |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 11:57 - Jan 4 by BlueOura |
So you think Walton is not going to make any mistakes then? I think history tells us that is not going to be the case as he has made howlers at a much lower level than this. Cheltenham away immediately springs to mind.
I have a lot of respect for Walton and will always support him but he is not quite PL level imho, Brighton also seemed to agree as he rarely got a look in there.
At some point I suspect Walton will make a mistake that leads to a goal, what then? will you turn on him as well? [Post edited 4 Jan 12:09]
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well Walton made mistakes in the Chelsea game, mistakes that Muric would have been criticised & lampooned for on here, like not a single goal kick ever made it to a Town player, yet he ends up with the man of the match award...
so I think there will be some blue tint to peoples specs on him for a while yet. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:29 - Jan 4 with 1159 views | Ryorry |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:24 - Jan 4 by stonojnr |
well Walton made mistakes in the Chelsea game, mistakes that Muric would have been criticised & lampooned for on here, like not a single goal kick ever made it to a Town player, yet he ends up with the man of the match award...
so I think there will be some blue tint to peoples specs on him for a while yet. |
As i said above, it's the accumulation of Muric's errors that have led to the considerable criticism I think. I wasdn't there, but doubt he had the same volume of criticism for his first big mistake.
It's natural that the more errors a player makes, the more the criticism will increase. | |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:56 - Jan 4 with 1110 views | FoghornGleghorn |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:24 - Jan 4 by stonojnr |
well Walton made mistakes in the Chelsea game, mistakes that Muric would have been criticised & lampooned for on here, like not a single goal kick ever made it to a Town player, yet he ends up with the man of the match award...
so I think there will be some blue tint to peoples specs on him for a while yet. |
For my money, Walton can make as many disastrous mistakes as he likes if it leads to teams scoring as many against us as Chelsea did. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 18:22 - Jan 4 with 985 views | Churchman |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 11:25 - Jan 4 by ibbleobble |
Wrong? If it were left to you, this club would still be under ME and MM rule languishing in the Championship in a derelict stadium with a dwindling fan base - that’s how wrong you have been.
And besides, you speak of wrong in the same breath when Muric has been dropped for his failings - let’s not pretend it’s just because of his niggling injury. So, while abuse should not be tolerated, criticism is part of the game and it’s been upheld in this instance. If there’s anything that’s wrong, it’s been your ego that’s never allowed you to be right. |
Please can you point me to any evidence that Muric has been ‘dropped for his failings’. If you cannot then a view that he’s been dropped to take him out of the firing line because he is top of the scapegoat hit list championed by the likes of you is equally valid isn’t it? Personally I believe both have as much validity as a sieve.
With regard to your objectivity, I was away for the Brighton game so only saw the reports. According to TWTD and other reports he was man of the match, as indeed he was at the Forest game. The Brighton game was his third. Please point to me, as somebody who is objective, to your posts of praise.
I have no problem whatsoever with criticism. It is the when and the how I have an issue with because if we truly support the same club, these things are in my view important. You may feel pink faced achievement seeing somebody battered on social media as a good thing. It’s a free country and that’s your choice. As is mine to disagree.
We are meant to support the same club, but sometimes it doesn’t feel that way. This issue has clearly crept through to the club. I don’t like it. Morsy and indeed KMs comments should not be dismissed lightly. I still think, despite some interesting and well thought out points, that they have a point. [Post edited 4 Jan 19:24]
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:00 - Jan 4 with 948 views | ITFCSG |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:29 - Jan 4 by Ryorry |
As i said above, it's the accumulation of Muric's errors that have led to the considerable criticism I think. I wasdn't there, but doubt he had the same volume of criticism for his first big mistake.
It's natural that the more errors a player makes, the more the criticism will increase. |
It is not only the accumulation of Muric's errors - which as everyone knows - is 2 higher than any other keeper in the division -- but also measured against how much he cost. For our record GK signing by far most would have expected much more from Muric than what we saw in Walton and Hladky over the past few seasons.
Muric cost probably TEN times more than what Walton cost us. Yet, he's performing similar to Walton at best - that's where the criticism comes in. Value for money? Definitely not. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:12 - Jan 4 with 918 views | Vic |
Some of us are still not getting it,
Our club captain have asked us to stop the negativity towards specific players - why do some of us think it’s ok to continue?
Which bit of his comments don’t we get? Unless we’re not actually ‘in this together’. |  |
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| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:41 - Jan 4 with 873 views | DavoIPB |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:18 - Jan 4 by Whos_blue |
Opinions you say?
"A complete liability".
Don't agree with that one. |
Exactly this. The over reaction to Muric making those mistakes and people not seeing everything else he does as a keeper is a joke. It's been pathetic the amount of a verbal abuse he has received from so called fans. There are ways of communicating that you don't feel a player is good enough to play for your team. Some Ipswich fans don't seem to be aware of how to communicate this.
Walton is not a better keeper than Muric. His kicking was fairly awful on Monday gave the ball away loads but got away with it. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:43 - Jan 4 with 865 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 10:53 - Jan 4 by ibbleobble |
An £8m keeper walking out not looking confident? Not sure what profession you do but at that price tag, I expect a bit more but maybe our ambitions and expectations vary greatly. |
Linking price to confidence shows your complete ignorance of this. If anything price/worth would put more pressure to perform and would magnify any mistakes in your own head. Should Marcus Rachford be playing out of his skin because he gets paid huge amounts of money. I'm afraid it doesn't worke like that and the more confidence is undermined the less likely it will return. I suspect our manager has taken him out of the equation for a rest from the abuse. Your last sentance is nonsense. |  | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:56 - Jan 4 with 824 views | ibbleobble |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 18:22 - Jan 4 by Churchman |
Please can you point me to any evidence that Muric has been ‘dropped for his failings’. If you cannot then a view that he’s been dropped to take him out of the firing line because he is top of the scapegoat hit list championed by the likes of you is equally valid isn’t it? Personally I believe both have as much validity as a sieve.
With regard to your objectivity, I was away for the Brighton game so only saw the reports. According to TWTD and other reports he was man of the match, as indeed he was at the Forest game. The Brighton game was his third. Please point to me, as somebody who is objective, to your posts of praise.
I have no problem whatsoever with criticism. It is the when and the how I have an issue with because if we truly support the same club, these things are in my view important. You may feel pink faced achievement seeing somebody battered on social media as a good thing. It’s a free country and that’s your choice. As is mine to disagree.
We are meant to support the same club, but sometimes it doesn’t feel that way. This issue has clearly crept through to the club. I don’t like it. Morsy and indeed KMs comments should not be dismissed lightly. I still think, despite some interesting and well thought out points, that they have a point. [Post edited 4 Jan 19:24]
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I agree Muric was excellent at Brighton and decent at Forest, probably his two stand out games. And I have said repeatedly on different threads, he has good attributes too but my main point, which is core to my argument is that he’s a developing keeper and KM has said as much. In my view, to stay in this league, it’s not a position we have the luxury to develop a player - he needs to be able to hit the ground running.
We’ve seen half a season now of some questionable performances but most importantly, some questionable decision making. As others have said, the price tag doesn’t justify the level of value but imo, I’d actually question the policy in the first place to bring him in as the no. 1 - I said this back in Sept, I think.
Scapegoating ie: blaming one person for all our failures is ridiculous. However, Muric can be directly attributed to lost points, Brentford being an example imo. At this level of elite sport with hundreds of millions of £ riding on the finest of margins, criticism should be considered as should change. Muric is core to a system, and bringing him in to a new back four was an oversight not of his doing - too much too soon for me but none-the-less, criticism has built because the mistakes have been very costly.
For me, it’s change at the right time. Bottom line is we’re in the bottom three half way through the season. If KM doesn’t change it now, it’ll be too late should results not improve. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 12:10 - Jan 5 with 542 views | quad |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 12:17 - Jan 4 by ipswichtillidie |
Part of the game criticism I’m afraid. Always going to be people
Who publicly go over the top, it happens at every club. We are no different. Fair play to Morsy for sticking up for a teammate I wouldn’t expect anything else from a great captain. Doesn’t change the fact that Muric has been poor and is a complete liability in a position where calmness is essentially the main part of his job. He’s finally been dropped, something that was obviously going to happen at some point. Hopefully Walton can continue to step up. I heavily criticised Muric on here, wouldn’t do it at a game and bring that negative atmosphere but on a forum
I believe we all have the right as fans to have our say. It’s a game of opinions after all..
coyb |
It's not a fact that Muric has been poor and a complete liability. That's your opinion, it's not a fact.
It's a fact that he has made errors which have led to goals. But he has also been excellent with dealing with crosses and made some top drawer saves which have kept us in games. So he has cost us points but also gained us points.
Therefore it's debatable. It's not a fact.
Credit where it's due, Walton had a very good game against Chelsea. But he did kick one straight to one of their players in the 2nd half and will make mistakes too. | | | |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 13:15 - Jan 5 with 466 views | Churchman |
| Well said Sam Morsy. on 19:56 - Jan 4 by ibbleobble |
I agree Muric was excellent at Brighton and decent at Forest, probably his two stand out games. And I have said repeatedly on different threads, he has good attributes too but my main point, which is core to my argument is that he’s a developing keeper and KM has said as much. In my view, to stay in this league, it’s not a position we have the luxury to develop a player - he needs to be able to hit the ground running.
We’ve seen half a season now of some questionable performances but most importantly, some questionable decision making. As others have said, the price tag doesn’t justify the level of value but imo, I’d actually question the policy in the first place to bring him in as the no. 1 - I said this back in Sept, I think.
Scapegoating ie: blaming one person for all our failures is ridiculous. However, Muric can be directly attributed to lost points, Brentford being an example imo. At this level of elite sport with hundreds of millions of £ riding on the finest of margins, criticism should be considered as should change. Muric is core to a system, and bringing him in to a new back four was an oversight not of his doing - too much too soon for me but none-the-less, criticism has built because the mistakes have been very costly.
For me, it’s change at the right time. Bottom line is we’re in the bottom three half way through the season. If KM doesn’t change it now, it’ll be too late should results not improve. |
So did you praise Muric for his Brighton performance on here at the time? It was two matches after you slaughtered him for his debut.
Yes, he has made mistakes. So has the Man United goalkeeper Onana albeit not at PR where he put on one of the best displays of goalkeeping I’ve seen here. Is he a better keeper than Muric or Walton? Yes, but he cost £44m.
The gap between PL and Championship is a chasm. You are not going to bridge it in one or two transfer windows and that means to an extent compromising on the type of player and the quality you bring in. Currently in my view we have a sprinkling of Premier League quality players amongst a number of hard working professionals doing their best to improve and bridge the gap. When they’re all on it we can compete, when they are slightly off for whatever reason, not so good.
This summer we brought in a mix of players, the majority with potential. What choice was there given the lowest budget in the PL? Bringing in a quality player for less money with issues, potential or a hasbeen do a job pension top-upper.
You are not going to be buying Newcastle’s midfield at £65m a player, Chelsea’s Caicedo at £115m (he was poor on Monday) or Onana. Ramsdale? He’s a good keeper. He should be at £25m. Shame Southampton are hammered every week and Ramsdale has missed a third of the matches.
It’s an inexact science and there is nothing else quite like professional football for that. You question the ‘policy’. I don’t. By sticking the boot into Muric and questioning policy, you are putting the boot into McKenna, Ashton and the club. They decide who is in and out so they are accountable. Personally, I believe they have earned our trust. They also deserve our support. Of course they will get things wrong, but they are on the right lines.
If we stay up this season, it’ll be near enough a miracle, the gap being what it is. I think it unlikely we will survive, but as long as they give their best and the management don’t overspend and bankrupt the club, that’s all you can ask for.
Criticism? Nobody is immune from that and everyone is entitled to an opinion. But it’s how and when it’s delivered. In the 2000s there was a big effort by some to destroy the already shaky confidence of Andy Marshall. That effort succeeded. It might also succeed with Muric. That close to the supporters, keepers will hear an awful lot and many read social media (I wouldn’t if I were them). But I don’t think the scapegoaters care about that. They have their agenda and that’s all that matters.
It’s no different to the vile and unjustified abuse McCarthy got at the end of his time here. Did MM deserve criticism? Yes. I hated his football from the off but the man deserved respect for what he achieved here with nothing and certainly not the disgusting treatment he got off so called supporters.
Morsy and McKenna were right to challenge those using Muric as a scapegoat. Those who carried on piling in at the end of the news article and continued on the itself forum should maybe consider why KM and Sam felt the need to raise the matter. | | | |
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