Forum | So bored of away point moaning by ITFC_Blood

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So bored of away point moaning 20:45 - Jan 27 with 13351 views

End of the day if you backed the boys away in L1 and champ you would have no issues getting a ticket in the Prem

If you can’t it means you didn’t do enough away days in the lower leagues

All this boo and crying is pathetic , if it wasn’t Liverpool or city away you wouldn’t care.

The fans that get the tickets for away now are the ones who did the hard miles in the lower leagues.

Blackburn away wasn’t sold out…..

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So bored of away point moaning on 11:16 - Jan 29 with 1685 views

SamWhiteUK

So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 by tractordownsouth
The points system is broadly fair (I'm on 18 points, so I have only managed to go to three aways this year) but the ballot needs to be 10%. This maintains the balance between rewarding people who have gone the past few seasons but not keeping it a completely closed shop.

10% ballot seems perfectly fair to me. I would have loved to have gone to some more away days this year, but I've been perpetually on 14 points. Thought I was going to be on more but forgot that some points from previous years would be dropped.

Now, I don't have the funds, realistically, to do every away game, so I would have been picking and choosing. And I get that some games are more desirable than others. I can understand that people who CAN get tickets at the moment won't want people picking and choosing like I do.

However, I disagree with the current system because I don't like this "superfan" closed shop system we have at the moment. Not just for me (like I said, I wouldn't go to every game) but it would just be nice for other people to have the option (read: semi-realistic chance) to go.

Unfortunately, the current system does lead to some nasty, "I'm a better fan than you" behaviour coming out of some (definitely not all) top-bracket point owners.

So bored of away point moaning on 11:20 - Jan 29 with 1666 views

yorkshireblue

So bored of away point moaning on 09:34 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
I don't think it's a crazy idea and I've already suggested there should be other ways to earn points, such as buying merch. At the moment you can only get points by going to away games... but you can only go to away games if you have the points!

Bradford brought this policy in - extra points for spending on match day - so merch like you say but also food, drinks etc. inside the stadium - but scrapped it after HUGE backlash as it rewards the wealthy.

So bored of away point moaning on 11:25 - Jan 29 with 1634 views

VanDusen

So bored of away point moaning on 21:33 - Jan 28 by tractorshark

You’re right about it being an impossible situation for the club. In my opinion this is the fairest solution. Everyone has got an agenda, you can’t please them all.

However, if you had gone to half a dozen away games last season, you would have got a ticket to pretty much every away game this season as long as you kept going.

I appreciate it may not be possible to go to every away game but I know people who started the season with 16 points (that’s six away games last season) who have gone to every away game bar Brentford.

Precisely - my mate was on 16 points, couldn't make Man City or Wimbledon, but has still got a ticket for every game bar Brentford. The only explanation I can see is people didn't fancy Wimbledon, Soton and Brighton and then found it difficult when the bigger grounds came into view...

So bored of away point moaning on 11:31 - Jan 29 with 1602 views

VanDusen

So bored of away point moaning on 11:25 - Jan 29 by VanDusen
Precisely - my mate was on 16 points, couldn't make Man City or Wimbledon, but has still got a ticket for every game bar Brentford. The only explanation I can see is people didn't fancy Wimbledon, Soton and Brighton and then found it difficult when the bigger grounds came into view...

Also - the membership moaning is tiresome. Like many in the so-called 'closed shop' I bought a gold card for 25 years, which after we got relegated was rarely - if ever - needed (esp as you couldn't even select where you wanted to sit for most of that time). And the biggest irony is the games it really might have been needed (Norwich, Wimbledon at Kingston), ended up being allocated by invitation letter anyway. So having paid up best part of £750 to the club I am finally being paid back this season...

And my Man U ticket is available as I can't make and altho it may affect my chances of getting to Bournemouth I will not spoil someone's else's chance to go to this one...

So bored of away point moaning on 11:33 - Jan 29 with 1584 views

squiz

So bored of away point moaning on 10:14 - Jan 29 by WubbleU

The problem is here long term fans fall in two categories -

The lifers - Not missed a game in 20 years types. All good there.

Those with a life - I think there are loads of us...We have done our time of 20+ away days in a season, for most that is a few year thing in your early 20's. Then money and life gets in the way, plus novelty of new visits is gone and you settle down into 7 or 8 games a year. London, grounds near family, new grounds that sort of thing. Then we spring back into life when times are good and want to go to more. Except this time we can't as the system favours those who have fallen lucky and the good times have landed in their going every week phase.

No problem with that and you can see most accept it but we're proud of our years and when people say 'you should have tried harder' we will keep biting. We don't deserve that.

It had gone quiet for several weeks then the club changed the rules mid-season for the Coventry game and off we go again. For me my anger is at the club, they need to do their jobs better, not the system or those who are lucky enough to have the chance to go.

Well said.

So bored of away point moaning on 11:50 - Jan 29 with 1539 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile

Those who are going away every game (because they're in the closed shop and want to stay there) have plenty of disposable income anyway. So this disposable income line is a red herring.

If you don't have the money to buy merch you don't have the money to buy away tickets and travel all over the country, either.

Can I ask how you know every other Prem club operates the same way, or are you just guessing?

Genuinely cant see how awarding points for merchandise could possibly be fair on people with different income levels. But I’ll agree to disagree on that one.

Regards other clubs and the points system …. I know Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Newcastle, Villa, Tottenham, Arsenal, West Ham, Fulham, Wolves, Brighton and Brentford operate the points system because I work with fans of those clubs.

I was told at the start of the season it was a widespread practice in the Prem and it seems to be common at the top end of the Championship. I can find out about the other Prem clubs with a google search but I suspect you and I both know the answer.

There are probably variations to the system and I don’t think every club runs an away ballot. Probably the bigger established Prem clubs choose not to.

I think Ipswich quite rightly did it because it was our first season back.

So bored of away point moaning on 11:58 - Jan 29 with 1515 views

gringoblue

So bored of away point moaning on 11:50 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

Forest have three tiers of away membership and put a cap on each one. The top two tiers are limited to 400/1000 people and you have to buy at least 14 away tickets a year to qualify for the following year. The top two tiers are guaranteed tickets if they want them (Bournemouth aside!). The last tier is limited to 3100 people and they apply for their tickets through a ballot. You have to be a season ticket holder to be an away member, so that is obviously different to Ipswich.

[Post edited 29 Jan 12:00]

So bored of away point moaning on 12:07 - Jan 29 with 1477 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 11:50 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

I've already made the point about income levels... yes, clearly those with more income would be able to get more points... but it's currently people with plenty of disposable income who are going to all the away games anyway. At the end of the day poorer people are priced out either way.

I've also made the point that points could be gained in other ways that involve volunteering time rather than money.

Just because other clubs do it one way (most of which have more supporters than us anyway) I don't see why we can't look to break the mould and do something different. Having a completely closed shop is just ridiculous.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:09 - Jan 29 with 1471 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 11:58 - Jan 29 by gringoblue

[Post edited 29 Jan 12:00]

There you go, didn't take long to find a better/fairer system!

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:12 - Jan 29 with 1464 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 11:58 - Jan 29 by gringoblue

[Post edited 29 Jan 12:00]

Very interesting. Like I say different variations although the Forest example is very different to what I’ve heard elsewhere.
Presumably non season ticket holders don’t have a chance of getting either a season ticket or an away ticket which creates the same closed shop that people have criticised here.

I am genuinely trying to see both sides of the argument here and I think it doesn’t help the debate by sniping at each other.
But what works for one person, won’t favour another so the club is pretty much damned if it does, damned if it doesn’t.
I think they have done it as fairly as they could in the circumstances. Maybe they’ll increase the ballot but any massive overhaul would just create more problems for themselves.
Maybe it won’t be an issue because we could be relegated but let’s hope not.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:18 - Jan 29 with 1442 views

algy

So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile

Home side takes all the revenue from League game ticket sales so it makes no difference to Town who buys tickets for the away section, they're all just helping pay the oppositions wages, so rewarding spending that does go to ITFC, e.g. merchandise, in-ground food and drink, with greater priority for away makes sense and helps offset the opposition financing.

Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:18 - Jan 29 with 1440 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 12:09 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
There you go, didn't take long to find a better/fairer system!

Seriously how is it that fairer?

Fairer for you maybe.

But as I’ve just replied this means if you’re not a season ticket holder it’s a closed shop again.

You’re arguing the toss about it being a closed shop and then advocating a change that will be just another closed shop.

Except it presumably suits you better.

Like I say, I’m trying to see both sides of the argument but when I talk about everyone having an agenda, I think you’ve just proved my point.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:35 - Jan 29 with 1344 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 12:12 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

"But what works for one person, won’t favour another so the club is pretty much damned if it does, damned if it doesn’t."

It's simple, to me at least. You have to do what's fairest for the most number of people. A closed shop certainly isn't that.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 12:44 - Jan 29 with 1308 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 12:18 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

Apologies, I misread it - I thought he said you had to be an away season ticket holder.

So yes, it would still be a closed shop... but at least it would be a larger closed shop if you included season ticket holders. You're not suggesting non-season ticket holders should have the same or greater priority than season ticket holders surely?

At some point there needs to be some sort of cut off, and many people with season tickets have had them for donkey's years, so they are certainly loyal fans. If someone doesn't go to either home or away games then they surely have to accept they're at the bottom of the pile in terms of any priority?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 13:35 - Jan 29 with 1229 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 09:34 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
I don't think it's a crazy idea and I've already suggested there should be other ways to earn points, such as buying merch. At the moment you can only get points by going to away games... but you can only go to away games if you have the points!

Get the idea, but this favours those who are wealthier and creates a wealth divide. As for food, the queues create issues but also the time of day is not conducive to eating (3pm is not lunch or dinner), creates a cost some cannot afford and the vegan option is pretty non-existent (veggie is also very poor) so I couldnt gain points from food. I buy plenty of merchanise but I know many who can't

So bored of away point moaning on 13:39 - Jan 29 with 1195 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile

Completely incorrect and wrong assumptions. I go to away games, but I sacrifice holidays for that. I don't drink, go out much, smoke, get takeaways or have sky or other subscriptions. I take packed lunches on away games to keep the cost down for us. Please don't assume we all have lots of disposable income as that is just not correct of myself or indeed many people I know who travel to away games

So bored of away point moaning on 13:43 - Jan 29 with 1171 views

algy

So bored of away point moaning on 13:35 - Jan 29 by football
Get the idea, but this favours those who are wealthier and creates a wealth divide. As for food, the queues create issues but also the time of day is not conducive to eating (3pm is not lunch or dinner), creates a cost some cannot afford and the vegan option is pretty non-existent (veggie is also very poor) so I couldnt gain points from food. I buy plenty of merchanise but I know many who can't

I have a season ticket and go to home games. Went to away games regularly many years ago but I couldn't afford to go to away games now even if I could get the tickets.

That's a "wealth divide". It's part of life.

[Post edited 29 Jan 13:44]

Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing.

So bored of away point moaning on 13:49 - Jan 29 with 1137 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 13:39 - Jan 29 by football
Completely incorrect and wrong assumptions. I go to away games, but I sacrifice holidays for that. I don't drink, go out much, smoke, get takeaways or have sky or other subscriptions. I take packed lunches on away games to keep the cost down for us. Please don't assume we all have lots of disposable income as that is just not correct of myself or indeed many people I know who travel to away games

You still have to pay for the ticket and the (astronomical) travel costs.

In any case, I obviously wasn't talking about every single person.
And I imagine those who take a packed lunch with them to every away game and/or don't drink are pretty small in number.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 13:49 - Jan 29 with 1137 views

JakeITFC

So bored of away point moaning on 10:14 - Jan 29 by WubbleU

This is a fair enough opinion, but you didn't at any point have to be a 20+ games a season away fan to get into the good brackets this year.

The problem as I see it is that those who want to pick and choose pretty much all want to pick and choose the same games, and that's where the issue starts (and in fact started, with Cambridge away in our League One promotion season).

So bored of away point moaning on 13:52 - Jan 29 with 1126 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 13:49 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
You still have to pay for the ticket and the (astronomical) travel costs. In any case, I obviously wasn't talking about every single person. And I imagine those who take a packed lunch with them to every away game and/or don't drink are pretty small in number.

Not sure, but I know many who travel away and I can guarentee they really are not wealthy with a lot of disposable income - they just make sacrifices elsewhere. Some people put £150-£200 away for a holiday a month, go to pub, smoke etc - many don't and spent it on football. Of course there are some who are wealthy but its a pretty mixed bag and not as some people like to think, its just where people decide to direct money

So bored of away point moaning on 14:01 - Jan 29 with 1089 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 13:52 - Jan 29 by football

Yeah, but I'm not suggesting those people are wealthy.

I'm just saying most people spend a fair bit travelling away, many people spend a fair bit on merch... it's a bit of a non-argument because both groups are spending.

I've also argued for ways to gain points that don't involve spending money, people seem to have not challenged that!

I get the real reasons for these arguments - those of you in the closed shop want it to stay that way. You've had the pleasure of some fantastic away games in recent years and you just want more, you've no interest in sharing that joy around. Just because you happened to be 'loyal' when the scheme came in.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 14:30 - Jan 29 with 1031 views

WubbleU

So bored of away point moaning on 13:49 - Jan 29 by JakeITFC
This is a fair enough opinion, but you didn't at any point have to be a 20+ games a season away fan to get into the good brackets this year. The problem as I see it is that those who want to pick and choose pretty much all want to pick and choose the same games, and that's where the issue starts (and in fact started, with Cambridge away in our League One promotion season).

I think your second point is interesting.

It is absolutely right that a scheme ensures priority for the short term loyal when there are just one or two sell outs per year. Hence the letters for Norwich games over the years, again the club messed up at Cambridge not the fans. I'd be furious if I missed out on Cambridge when I had been to Morecambe etc.

But when that becomes a sell-out every week you're no longer rewarding the loyal but excluding everyone else; I'm not sure that is fair. It will get worse if we stay up, many have said they will travel less, but will they want to risk losing their place inside the fence or will they buy to sell on?? I know what I would do!

So bored of away point moaning on 16:06 - Jan 29 with 967 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 14:01 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile

I've been travelling to away games for years and years - far too many to count. Of course I want the system to stay that benefits me, who wouldn't want a system that benefits them, its natural human nature.
I've commented on some other things - I can see there is some merit in exploring but not that straightforward at present. On merchandise it is geared to those wealthier ones, food and drink isn't up to scratch to work. As for volunteering, maybe, not sure - I certainly wouldnt have time with a full time job, and two kids with all that entails with their sporting stuff and work. Plus access to volunteering isn't great for everyone - it's Ipswich/Bury/Lowestoft centred which would preclude several people.
Not saying there aren't other things to explore but thats a way off as it stands I see at the moment to make it completely fair for all people

I will though say the system for home tickets shoudl follow away and those who went more last season shoudl have priority over those with just one point as such

So bored of away point moaning on 17:48 - Jan 29 with 873 views

skinnybob72

So bored of away point moaning on 12:18 - Jan 29 by algy
Home side takes all the revenue from League game ticket sales so it makes no difference to Town who buys tickets for the away section, they're all just helping pay the oppositions wages, so rewarding spending that does go to ITFC, e.g. merchandise, in-ground food and drink, with greater priority for away makes sense and helps offset the opposition financing.

I'm sure we will have people who attend almost all away games but seldom set foot inside Portman Road.

So bored of away point moaning on 18:50 - Jan 29 with 803 views

algy

So bored of away point moaning on 17:48 - Jan 29 by skinnybob72
I'm sure we will have people who attend almost all away games but seldom set foot inside Portman Road.

Such people who fund opponents more than they fund Town should be required to redeem themselves with non-stop singing and chanting in support of the team or be banned from getting away tickets. (Anyone physically unable to verbally support would be excused)

Veni Vidi Participatur. Now we can get back to competing.

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