Forum | So bored of away point moaning by ITFC_Blood

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So bored of away point moaning 20:45 - Jan 27 with 13352 views

End of the day if you backed the boys away in L1 and champ you would have no issues getting a ticket in the Prem

If you can’t it means you didn’t do enough away days in the lower leagues

All this boo and crying is pathetic , if it wasn’t Liverpool or city away you wouldn’t care.

The fans that get the tickets for away now are the ones who did the hard miles in the lower leagues.

Blackburn away wasn’t sold out…..

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So bored of away point moaning on 16:54 - Jan 28 with 1824 views

SamWhiteUK

The system has worked in that it's kept first timers from snapping up all the tickets, which is great. However, it has now gone too far the other way, and the members in the closed shop free to rule the roost (and leave early from games, but I won't get started on that..!).

By increasing the percentage that go to ballot, it opens the door a little bit while still giving an advantage to those who have been most often. This seems correct to me.

So bored of away point moaning on 17:01 - Jan 28 with 1805 views

BlueRaider

So bored of away point moaning on 20:50 - Jan 27 by ITFC_Blood
Who ever down voted please explain how I’m wrong

Simple, it's a closed shop now, it is virtually impossible to get anywhere on away tickets now.

I went to 10 away matches the season before the scheme, but because I had no gold card (I just relied on my season ticket) I lost the points.

I am now on 12 points

I have not won a single ballot for an away ticket all season.

Even if I did, it would be fine for that match, but I would realistically need to get 8 points at least to get to 20 and any realistic hope, no chance.

I've been to 2 away games all season, both in the home end.

I've been going to away matches for nearly 40 years, not as prolifically recently as some, but I currently have no chance.

I've suggested to the club that for next season they introduce a weighted ballot system - so with my 12 points I get 12 entries into the ballot, those with 40 points get 40 entries. I also suggested that they set aside say 500 away season ticket holders that are sold on the basis of most points get the opportunity first.

Personally I think that would be much fairer.

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So bored of away point moaning on 17:15 - Jan 28 with 1752 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 17:01 - Jan 28 by BlueRaider

No system will please anyone but to remove the point system would not be fair on those who have accumulated points. Neither would increasing the ballot in my view as that will impede on those with lower points as those at the top end will still be able to get tickets, and it is those on the lower levels who are most aggreived at the system. I'm pretty confident the system will remain the same next year as this - you can't just change a system where its been communicated in the past that the Championship points will be wiped so only those this season will remain.

Tne problem with the 500 away season tickets is not everyone can make that work. They had that before but you could only miss two games. Many people can't guarentee that for personal reasons or work, or indeed finance, until after these will have been on sale.

I personally, but then I am biased as have well over 40 points, the current system is the fairest respecting those who have accumulated points over the last two seasons.

-1

So bored of away point moaning on 17:17 - Jan 28 with 1748 views

football

So bored of away point moaning on 17:01 - Jan 28 by BlueRaider

Thinking about it also, the other issue I see is that I could not guarentee tickets for me and the boy - one might be successful the other not and many like me go as a family or with close friends to games. If it is just you on your own, less of an issue I guess.

So bored of away point moaning on 17:37 - Jan 28 with 1715 views

J2BLUE

I haven't tried to get tickets for any away games so am fairly neutral on this but I think it would be a fairer argument if there were more tickets in the ballot.

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So bored of away point moaning on 21:33 - Jan 28 with 1578 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 14:49 - Jan 28 by BluJu

"End of the day if you backed the boys away in L1 and champ you would have no issues getting a ticket in the Prem"

Not true though is it? My family and I "backed the boys" for the last idk how many years, with season tickets and away games. But you forget that not everyone can go to EVERY away game. You pretty much need to have done that to be on high level points to get a ticket.

We've always gone to about half a dozen aways a year. We've never needed to buy membership etc for that due to easy availability.

Come this season we need memberships, but there's no way I'm spending £160 on 4 memberships knowing full well that I will never get a ticket out of it.

It's now virtually a closed loop.

The side effect is that supporters - loyal supporters - who cannot go to every away game now cannot even go to a few. I don't care either about the legions of new supporters who are suddenly out of their armchairs now we're in the Prem.

I am not moaning however, as I know it's an impossible situation for the club, and - as I have for the last 25+ years - I'm lucky enough to go to every home game.

It would be nice though if some more fortunate with tickets would have some empathy with their fellow supporters, instead of propagatiing this holier than thou stance around who is the "better supporter".

We all support the same club!

You’re right about it being an impossible situation for the club. In my opinion this is the fairest solution. Everyone has got an agenda, you can’t please them all.

However, if you had gone to half a dozen away games last season, you would have got a ticket to pretty much every away game this season as long as you kept going.

I appreciate it may not be possible to go to every away game but I know people who started the season with 16 points (that’s six away games last season) who have gone to every away game bar Brentford.

So bored of away point moaning on 21:55 - Jan 28 with 1550 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 17:01 - Jan 28 by BlueRaider

The key sentence is your last one.

“Personally I think that would be much fairer”

Fairer for who? You I presume.

I don’t wish to have a dig at you but It just seems like everyone has an agenda and everyone has a solution that no doubt favours themselves more.

But why should people who have paid serious money travelling the length and breadth of the country for the last 2-3 seasons (and in my case way beyond that) potentially miss out because someone didn’t do six away games last season.

Tom, the guy on here who does a great job analysing the away sales, has already stated 16 points was the magic number at the start of the season to ensure you got an away ticket this season to every game bar Brentford and Bournemouth. And I imagine once you hit 25 points, you could probably pick and choose.

Those six games were readily available last season, they weren’t all sold out.

I sympathise with people who have missed out, my eldest son is in that bracket, but as I’ve said before it’s no different to the situation with season tickets.

People are desperate for them now we’re in the Prem but forget they had the opportunity two seasons ago and didn’t take it.

The club are operating the same system used by pretty much all Prem teams. They know if you stop going to away games or don’t want your season ticket anymore, there is a long queue of people who do.

It’s harsh, yes, but it’s the fairest way to reward loyalty and attendance and my family has seen both sides of that coin.

There is an argument to increase the ballot to say 100 tickets or 5% but I can’t see it going higher than that.

I’m playing devil’s advocate here but if you or anyone else had 20 points right now, I very much doubt you’d be calling for a weighted ballot scheme.

So bored of away point moaning on 22:10 - Jan 28 with 1528 views

textbackup

As a current 40+ pointer, I want them to put everyone on zero next season to watch the absolute shtstorm it’ll cause.

Be a laugh wouldnt it.

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So bored of away point moaning on 22:52 - Jan 28 with 1485 views

olimar

So bored of away point moaning on 17:01 - Jan 28 by BlueRaider

I have never really understood the argument from non-Gold Card holders in 22/23 about not getting any points credited.
At the start of that season, the expectations were pretty high that we would be competing for promotion. And that we were playing in a division that had a lot of stadiums with very small away capacities. And that we were taking large numbers to away games already.

So without a gold card, there was presumably an acceptance that tickets wouldnt be obtainable for some of the potentially critical away games that season (Fleetwood away, for example). And if there were lots of Gold Card holders, then the availability might have been lower for some of the bigger stadiums too (Charlton). So it was a bit of a gamble.

So when we introduced a points system the next year, and those fans dont get any points for the games they attended the previous year, they are in the same position as they were the previous season- little chance of getting tickets to high demand games and acceptance that its a gamble on some of the others too. Only for some reason, that isnt enough, because the expectations have changed?

(should add, some circumstances where individuals probably should have had points awarded anyway because of historic reasons)

[Post edited 28 Jan 23:04]

So bored of away point moaning on 23:00 - Jan 28 with 1460 views

olimar

So bored of away point moaning on 21:33 - Jan 28 by tractorshark

Was going to mention that too. Its expensive (and selling a membership at £40/person for the opportunity to just buy tickets is immoral), but it was known last year that if you dont have a membership then you have limited chances of getting tickets to games and that chance would likely be worse the following year too.

So bored of away point moaning on 07:28 - Jan 29 with 1246 views

bazza

So bored of away point moaning on 22:10 - Jan 28 by textbackup
As a current 40+ pointer, I want them to put everyone on zero next season to watch the absolute shtstorm it’ll cause. Be a laugh wouldnt it.

Or points with a pie and a pint at Portman road.

So bored of away point moaning on 07:36 - Jan 29 with 1220 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 21:55 - Jan 28 by tractorshark

I think you're missing the point. Why does "loyalty" mean very specifically two seasons ago?

And talking of agendas - yours is it's absolutely fine because you're absolutely fine.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 09:09 - Jan 29 with 1142 views

BluJu

So bored of away point moaning on 21:33 - Jan 28 by tractorshark

"However, if you had gone to half a dozen away games last season, you would have got a ticket to pretty much every away game this season as long as you kept going."

Only Gold Members (or whichever level it was) accumulated points. As season ticket holders (the only true fans after all, lol

) we did not accumulate anything for our away days.

We made it to some small venues such as Burton and Cheltenham without the need for any membership, but therefore those trips were worthless apparently. You've got to pay to be in that club.

As for "..as long as you kept going" - not if we still only wanted to go to a handful of games. You have to go to so many games to keep it rolling. And seeing as we're not local (220 mile round trip to PR) things are expensive enough without extra memberships.

Oh and - not that we would - that also means we couldn't buy tickets for the points and sell them on like many do, as we're not exactly surrounded by fellow fans! Another flaw in the system and illustration of how selfish people are.

Btw unlike the OP - I find it fascinating to hear the argument from both sides. Chats like these might just come up with an alternative solution (although that's clearly not what the point-heavy folks want).

So bored of away point moaning on 09:16 - Jan 29 with 1121 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 07:36 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
I think you're missing the point. Why does "loyalty" mean very specifically two seasons ago? And talking of agendas - yours is it's absolutely fine because you're absolutely fine.

I’ve already said everyone has an agenda so yes that includes me.

My youngest son and I have enough points but my eldest son doesn’t so he misses out.

I think that gives me enough credibility to voice some sort of balanced opinion.

You’re right about loyalty. I stood at Port Vale watching us lose 5-0 on New Year’s Day in the early 90s and I’ve stated in the past long-standing Town fans are missing out while the club has rediscovered 10,000 fans who probably won’t all stick around if we’re relegated.

And that’s where my sympathy lies. I am not missing the point.

But I genuinely am not convinced there is a better solution. How far does the club go back? 2,3,4,5 years? There has to be a cutoff and someone is not going to like it.

Why shouldn’t the club reward those who went regularly last season? If you flip the argument, it doesn’t seem right that they would miss out on tickets to people who want to do away games now we’re in the Prem.

And yet they didn’t want to do the readily-available six away games last season, which would have guaranteed that.

It is an impossible situation for the club and it’s harsh but it is fair whether you, my son or me like it.

The only thing I can see changing is a small increase in the ballot. Demand is so great, the club know if you stop going, there are thousands who want your ticket.

I’m sure they’d want it to go to a deserving Town fan but they also have to generate a new fanbase which is why long-standing loyalty can’t really dictate your business model.

I suppose if we’re relegated it will be less of a problem after the initial spike in interest. And if that happens, I expect to see all those who don’t like the current system joining me at the likes of Cardiff, Blackburn, Hull etc.

So bored of away point moaning on 09:29 - Jan 29 with 1057 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 09:09 - Jan 29 by BluJu

You’re right, I think it’s important to have a debate which doesn’t descend into a row.

And I try very hard to see both sides of the argument.

As I just posted, my youngest son and myself have enough points. My eldest son who is at uni in Wales is just short of 20 points. So I can see both sides.

I live in Sussex so it’s a similar distance to home games as yourself. And away games can be a long day so I’m putting in the hard yards financially.

But I appreciate others would give their right arm for that.

The problem with the season ticket incentives is it worked when demand was low but it is an outdated concept when demand is high and it just doesn’t seem to exist at all at any other Prem club.

Maybe it could have been handled better but the club will probably counter that by saying away tickets did reach the low brackets or general sale last season for certain games so there was a chance to gain points.

But you are 100% correct about people selling on tickets, that shouldn’t happen. I’m not sure how they stop it, though, as it has been a common practice among season ticket holders for home games for donkey’s years.

So bored of away point moaning on 09:34 - Jan 29 with 1035 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 07:28 - Jan 29 by bazza
Or points with a pie and a pint at Portman road.

I don't think it's a crazy idea and I've already suggested there should be other ways to earn points, such as buying merch. At the moment you can only get points by going to away games... but you can only go to away games if you have the points!

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

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So bored of away point moaning on 09:49 - Jan 29 with 1009 views

Dennyx4

So bored of away point moaning on 09:34 - Jan 29 by The_Flashing_Smile
I don't think it's a crazy idea and I've already suggested there should be other ways to earn points, such as buying merch. At the moment you can only get points by going to away games... but you can only go to away games if you have the points!

All you would do if points were given for merchandise is to reward the more wealthy, who can afford to purchase more, so not an ideal solution.

Personally, would love to go to more away games, I have a season ticket, a membership but usually only do 1 or 2 per season, so the current scheme doesn’t work for me.

I do think the current scheme is fair, albeit I do believe that the away ballot has been poorly thought through. The 2% (60 tickets) just isn’t worth buying a membership for. I have entered every away ballot, but no luck so far.

As a potential solution, either scrap the ballot, increase the ballot or guarantee one away ticket if you buy a membership. Not sure if that can work, would depend on volume of memberships.

The issue above probably goes away if we get relegated, albeit ground sizes may mean there is smaller allocations.

It is quite a hot topic, with a lot of variables for the club to consider. Whatever they do, if anything will please some, but not others.

The membership scheme may also need to be reviewed to give a value for next season, free Town TV as an option?

So bored of away point moaning on 10:14 - Jan 29 with 978 views

WubbleU

The problem is here long term fans fall in two categories -

The lifers - Not missed a game in 20 years types. All good there.

Those with a life - I think there are loads of us...We have done our time of 20+ away days in a season, for most that is a few year thing in your early 20's. Then money and life gets in the way, plus novelty of new visits is gone and you settle down into 7 or 8 games a year. London, grounds near family, new grounds that sort of thing. Then we spring back into life when times are good and want to go to more. Except this time we can't as the system favours those who have fallen lucky and the good times have landed in their going every week phase.

No problem with that and you can see most accept it but we're proud of our years and when people say 'you should have tried harder' we will keep biting. We don't deserve that.

It had gone quiet for several weeks then the club changed the rules mid-season for the Coventry game and off we go again. For me my anger is at the club, they need to do their jobs better, not the system or those who are lucky enough to have the chance to go.

So bored of away point moaning on 10:26 - Jan 29 with 958 views

tractorshark

So bored of away point moaning on 09:49 - Jan 29 by Dennyx4

I think the problem of guaranteeing a ticket with a membership is simply availability.

I've seen people suggest you should have a guaranteed away ticket with your season ticket but that's ludicrously unfair and also completely unworkable.

You have 21,000 season ticket holders and away allocations of 3000 at most matches. That's seven matches sold out there and then.

It would be the same with memberships. I don't know how many were sold this season but say you offer that incentive and 15,000 sign up, that's five away games gone.

And you're right about points for food or merchandise, you're just rewarding those with more disposable income.

Every other Prem club seems to operate the same points system for away games but I don't know how many actually bother with a ballot.

I don't think the big clubs do, so I think Ipswich were just trying to appease supporters by giving them some chance, albeit a small one.

So bored of away point moaning on 10:33 - Jan 29 with 943 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 09:49 - Jan 29 by Dennyx4

The people who are currently going to the away games are paying the cost of those plus the cost to travel all over the country, food and drink for the day etc., so I'm not sure they're any better off than those who can't get tickets but are buying merch.

There could also be ways to earn points that don't cost money (if you're worried about rewarding the more wealthy) such as volunteering with the Foundation perhaps?

I'm just trying to find another way of rewarding loyal fans other than the current points-for-tickets-for-points closed shop system, which is clearly bonkers and unfair.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 10:35 - Jan 29 with 936 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 10:14 - Jan 29 by WubbleU

Spot on.

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 with 927 views

tractordownsouth

The points system is broadly fair (I'm on 18 points, so I have only managed to go to three aways this year) but the ballot needs to be 10%.

This maintains the balance between rewarding people who have gone the past few seasons but not keeping it a completely closed shop.

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So bored of away point moaning on 10:39 - Jan 29 with 920 views

The_Flashing_Smile

So bored of away point moaning on 10:26 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

Those who are going away every game (because they're in the closed shop and want to stay there) have plenty of disposable income anyway. So this disposable income line is a red herring.

If you don't have the money to buy merch you don't have the money to buy away tickets and travel all over the country, either.

Can I ask how you know every other Prem club operates the same way, or are you just guessing?

Trust the process. Trust Phil.

So bored of away point moaning on 10:42 - Jan 29 with 910 views

Dennyx4

So bored of away point moaning on 10:26 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

All valid points, think it would really depend on number of memberships. Only the club will know this. It would be interesting to know how many enter the ballot for both home and away games.

Some clubs run two different memberships, one for home games and one for away matches- but not sure that is going to help.

So bored of away point moaning on 11:08 - Jan 29 with 871 views

Dennyx4

So bored of away point moaning on 10:26 - Jan 29 by tractorshark

Just working on numbers, if 15000 memberships were purchased, this would equate to approx 790 per game in a 19 game premier season or 652 in a 23 game season. In all honesty, not sure we would have anywhere near 15000 members that wanted to go to away games. Maybe 15000 in total, but some are just trying to get home tickets. We took nearly 7000 to MK Dons, not sure if there are another 8000 more that would go?

With the current 3000 in the Premier League, would still have 2000 minimum for every game for those with points, roughly the away attendance average from last year? Also some games the 790 would also include memberships with points getting the ticket too.

As said before, it really does depend on the number of memberships sold, that are looking to go to away games, which the club have the data for. I am aware if there are too many memberships, this doesn’t work.

It is just a thought, that helps the club maximise money for away memberships.

I do think the points system is fair, just trying to add a different angle, that placates a wider fan base.

[Post edited 30 Jan 9:47]

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