| I was talking to..... on 12:15 - Feb 17 with 1657 views | leitrimblue |
| I was talking to..... on 11:51 - Feb 17 by Herbivore |
I thought my WhatsApp notifications had gone a bit quiet. |
You can laugh now, but it won't be so funny when Blueas starts a thread about the inadequacies of Starmers darts technique and the woke sexuality of subbuteo and you don't get the emergency all hands on deck WhatsApp alarm.. |  | |  |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:26 - Feb 17 with 1603 views | itfcjoe |
I thought Lewis Goodall did an excellent piece on this on his Substack
The Transatlantic alliance is collapsing. This may have been the biggest moment for European security since 1991 if not 1945.
Hello from Hastings, and apologies for the radio silence for a couple of weeks. Or rather, the fact there’s been very little radio silence from me these last two weeks is why there’s been silence here. Filling in for the James O’Brien on his mid-morning LBC slot, alongside the Sunday show and News Agents has rather sapped my writing time. But the great man is back, so therefore are the etchings here.
As I say, I’m in Hastings on a long weekend with my wife, so for the sake of her gentle forbearance I shan’t take up too much of your time. But I did feel a compulsion to take to the page, having spent the morning watching and trying to internalise Vice President Vance’s speech to the Munich Security Conference. It comes alongside a triad of other remarks made over the course of the week by those at the top of the American state: Trump, Defense Secretary Hegseth, and Vance himself.
Inside Vance’s speech was a strangulated argument gasping for air, about the ability of democracies to maintain integrity in the face of mass migration, but it expired before entry, suffocated by the hypocrisy and cant which stuffed the Vice President’s mouth. Here was a sitting Vice President of the United States, giving a speech about the security of the European continent. Yet there was not a solitary word of critique for the murderous despot who has invaded Europe’s borders and the sovereignty and freedom of a proud European state. Instead, the Vice President, apparently with the President’s blessing and approval, chastised European leaders on “the threat from within”- a series of largely jaundiced half truths or irrelevancies about the primacy of freedom of speech, a contorted series of non sequiturs that would have made a sixth form debater blush.
“We gather at this conference, of course, to discuss security. And normally we mean threats to our external security. I see many, many great military leaders gathered here today. But while the Trump administration is very concerned with European security and believes that we can come to a reasonable settlement between Russia and Ukraine – and we also believe that it’s important in the coming years for Europe to step up in a big way to provide for its own defence – the threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia, it’s not China, it’s not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within. The retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values: values shared with the United States of America.”- Vice President J.D. Vance, 14th February 2025
The Vice President made clear that the freedom he prises most is not actual freedom, the joy of self-determination: the real liberties that Ukrainian heroes die on the battlefront for every day and its citizens suffer to realise. No, the Vice President was more concerned with the ability of anti-abortion protesters to pray in closer proximity to abortion clinics. He was more concerned with attacking reasonable regulatory provisions which could shut down social media in moments of civil unrest. He was more concerned with making elliptical references to the jailed Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a jailed far-right thug the MAGA faithful have hailed as a political martyr. If these things were righted, if Europe were to return some fabled political ideals to which Trump is returning the American republic, hilariously the VP seemed to imply, the Russian bear at the gates might not matter so much.
If it weren’t so serious, it would genuinely be funny. Here was a Vice President whose administration has spent these last weeks lauding or at least cordially embracing a Russian regime where freedom of speech does not exist, whilst chastising and insulting democratic allies where it most certainly does. Here was a Vice President scolding European leaders for allowing the pillars of their democracy to fray, whose boss was the head of an actual insurrection in the American Congress. Here is a Vice President lecturing others about freedom of speech, who says he is concerned by the rise of relativism of truth, who does not even dare to say aloud the unalterable objective fact: that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. In Munich irony died, was exhumed, only for Vance to sever its head again.
Vance’s speech, alongside Hegseth’s comments on Ukraine earlier this week, remind us of several things. First, this is a government of the radicalised online right, for the radicalised online right, by the radicalised online right. It’s government by Breitbart. They don’t care about actual freedom and security, again, the sort Ukrainians are dying for- because there’s frenzied stuff to say about largely imagined attacks on freedom of speech which will get 100k likes on Elon’s Twitter. Second, this is the first US administration since before Roosevelt, probably ever, that not only makes no distinction between democracies and autocracies, but actually prefers the latter. The very things which make liberal democracies liberal democracies- division of power, protection of minority rights, laws which govern freedom of speech, adherence to international law, independent judiciaries- are disliked by the current US government, because they believe they are part of a liberal cosmopolitan plot. Thirdly, they combined this with a preference for great power politics. The sight of Trump saying that he and Putin would, bilaterally negotiate an outcome to the Ukraine war, was a sickening one, bypassing the very people who have spent so much blood for their democratic future, for their actual freedom of speech. In so doing, Trump gave what Putin wanted from the beginning: a Yalta type moment when the future of Europe would be decided by them, and themselves alone. This rejects precisely what this entire war is about: the right of Ukraine to choose its own path, to choose to be a liberal democracy in the European orbit, and not a Russian satellite: how much freedom of speech does JD Vance think Ukrainians held in the occupied Donbas enjoy right now? Any deal fashioned in the way Trump has talked this week would make America, man’s last best hope, an accessory to an imperial adventure. The transatlantic alliance is vanishing before our eyes: for the first time since 1945 the US is neutral about Europe, or worse. Here was Vance saying the only way a Trump White House might care again is if its governments were to Make Europe Great Again- ie adopt a MAGA type programme and philosophy. In the meantime, they have Russia, who already sits closer to MAGA in much of their cultural mores and therefore we have the nightmare scenario of an active compact between Washington and Moscow, with Europe caught in the middle. This is all strategically brand new. NATO no longer means much, if anything at all. It is the world order that Vladimir Putin always wanted to create, handed to him by an American president. It defies belief.
In this world view, the only thing which Trumps respects is strength. In that guise, it is time that Europe finally woke up and listened to what Trump and Vance are saying. American democracy is developing in a new and particular direction. Their world view is different to the European mainstream. And they view Europe as too weak to determine our own future. In a sense- they’re right. In 2016 Europeans comforted themselves in the belief that Trump was too incompetent to do anything. In 2020 Europeans comforted themselves in thinking Trump was a blip. In 2025 Europeans comfort themselves that Trump doesn’t mean what he says. This week may prove the most portentous for European security since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. If this week and Vance’s speech in Munich, the site of too many political betrayals, doesn’t wake Europe up- nothing will. It should have been a week where the veil is lifted: where Europe realises we are on our own. The American state has been captured by a group of people who do not see the world as we do, who are hostile to the world as we want it to be. We must see them for what they are- to their credit, they don’t pretend to be anything else. To our discredit, we lie to ourselves that they do.
https://substack.com/@lewisgoodall/p-157192892 |  |
| |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:39 - Feb 17 with 1555 views | Dubtractor |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:26 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
I thought Lewis Goodall did an excellent piece on this on his Substack
The Transatlantic alliance is collapsing. This may have been the biggest moment for European security since 1991 if not 1945.
Hello from Hastings, and apologies for the radio silence for a couple of weeks. Or rather, the fact there’s been very little radio silence from me these last two weeks is why there’s been silence here. Filling in for the James O’Brien on his mid-morning LBC slot, alongside the Sunday show and News Agents has rather sapped my writing time. But the great man is back, so therefore are the etchings here.
As I say, I’m in Hastings on a long weekend with my wife, so for the sake of her gentle forbearance I shan’t take up too much of your time. But I did feel a compulsion to take to the page, having spent the morning watching and trying to internalise Vice President Vance’s speech to the Munich Security Conference. It comes alongside a triad of other remarks made over the course of the week by those at the top of the American state: Trump, Defense Secretary Hegseth, and Vance himself.
Inside Vance’s speech was a strangulated argument gasping for air, about the ability of democracies to maintain integrity in the face of mass migration, but it expired before entry, suffocated by the hypocrisy and cant which stuffed the Vice President’s mouth. Here was a sitting Vice President of the United States, giving a speech about the security of the European continent. Yet there was not a solitary word of critique for the murderous despot who has invaded Europe’s borders and the sovereignty and freedom of a proud European state. Instead, the Vice President, apparently with the President’s blessing and approval, chastised European leaders on “the threat from within”- a series of largely jaundiced half truths or irrelevancies about the primacy of freedom of speech, a contorted series of non sequiturs that would have made a sixth form debater blush.
“We gather at this conference, of course, to discuss security. And normally we mean threats to our external security. I see many, many great military leaders gathered here today. But while the Trump administration is very concerned with European security and believes that we can come to a reasonable settlement between Russia and Ukraine – and we also believe that it’s important in the coming years for Europe to step up in a big way to provide for its own defence – the threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia, it’s not China, it’s not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within. The retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values: values shared with the United States of America.”- Vice President J.D. Vance, 14th February 2025
The Vice President made clear that the freedom he prises most is not actual freedom, the joy of self-determination: the real liberties that Ukrainian heroes die on the battlefront for every day and its citizens suffer to realise. No, the Vice President was more concerned with the ability of anti-abortion protesters to pray in closer proximity to abortion clinics. He was more concerned with attacking reasonable regulatory provisions which could shut down social media in moments of civil unrest. He was more concerned with making elliptical references to the jailed Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a jailed far-right thug the MAGA faithful have hailed as a political martyr. If these things were righted, if Europe were to return some fabled political ideals to which Trump is returning the American republic, hilariously the VP seemed to imply, the Russian bear at the gates might not matter so much.
If it weren’t so serious, it would genuinely be funny. Here was a Vice President whose administration has spent these last weeks lauding or at least cordially embracing a Russian regime where freedom of speech does not exist, whilst chastising and insulting democratic allies where it most certainly does. Here was a Vice President scolding European leaders for allowing the pillars of their democracy to fray, whose boss was the head of an actual insurrection in the American Congress. Here is a Vice President lecturing others about freedom of speech, who says he is concerned by the rise of relativism of truth, who does not even dare to say aloud the unalterable objective fact: that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. In Munich irony died, was exhumed, only for Vance to sever its head again.
Vance’s speech, alongside Hegseth’s comments on Ukraine earlier this week, remind us of several things. First, this is a government of the radicalised online right, for the radicalised online right, by the radicalised online right. It’s government by Breitbart. They don’t care about actual freedom and security, again, the sort Ukrainians are dying for- because there’s frenzied stuff to say about largely imagined attacks on freedom of speech which will get 100k likes on Elon’s Twitter. Second, this is the first US administration since before Roosevelt, probably ever, that not only makes no distinction between democracies and autocracies, but actually prefers the latter. The very things which make liberal democracies liberal democracies- division of power, protection of minority rights, laws which govern freedom of speech, adherence to international law, independent judiciaries- are disliked by the current US government, because they believe they are part of a liberal cosmopolitan plot. Thirdly, they combined this with a preference for great power politics. The sight of Trump saying that he and Putin would, bilaterally negotiate an outcome to the Ukraine war, was a sickening one, bypassing the very people who have spent so much blood for their democratic future, for their actual freedom of speech. In so doing, Trump gave what Putin wanted from the beginning: a Yalta type moment when the future of Europe would be decided by them, and themselves alone. This rejects precisely what this entire war is about: the right of Ukraine to choose its own path, to choose to be a liberal democracy in the European orbit, and not a Russian satellite: how much freedom of speech does JD Vance think Ukrainians held in the occupied Donbas enjoy right now? Any deal fashioned in the way Trump has talked this week would make America, man’s last best hope, an accessory to an imperial adventure. The transatlantic alliance is vanishing before our eyes: for the first time since 1945 the US is neutral about Europe, or worse. Here was Vance saying the only way a Trump White House might care again is if its governments were to Make Europe Great Again- ie adopt a MAGA type programme and philosophy. In the meantime, they have Russia, who already sits closer to MAGA in much of their cultural mores and therefore we have the nightmare scenario of an active compact between Washington and Moscow, with Europe caught in the middle. This is all strategically brand new. NATO no longer means much, if anything at all. It is the world order that Vladimir Putin always wanted to create, handed to him by an American president. It defies belief.
In this world view, the only thing which Trumps respects is strength. In that guise, it is time that Europe finally woke up and listened to what Trump and Vance are saying. American democracy is developing in a new and particular direction. Their world view is different to the European mainstream. And they view Europe as too weak to determine our own future. In a sense- they’re right. In 2016 Europeans comforted themselves in the belief that Trump was too incompetent to do anything. In 2020 Europeans comforted themselves in thinking Trump was a blip. In 2025 Europeans comfort themselves that Trump doesn’t mean what he says. This week may prove the most portentous for European security since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. If this week and Vance’s speech in Munich, the site of too many political betrayals, doesn’t wake Europe up- nothing will. It should have been a week where the veil is lifted: where Europe realises we are on our own. The American state has been captured by a group of people who do not see the world as we do, who are hostile to the world as we want it to be. We must see them for what they are- to their credit, they don’t pretend to be anything else. To our discredit, we lie to ourselves that they do.
https://substack.com/@lewisgoodall/p-157192892 |
That's a decent effort from him.
And I think it captures an area of frustration for me. A few on here (and I suspect much more widely) have seen Vance mention that immigration = bad, and decided that he's obviously right, without understanding everything else from his speech. |  |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 12:54 - Feb 17 with 1496 views | positivity |
| I was talking to..... on 12:15 - Feb 17 by leitrimblue |
You can laugh now, but it won't be so funny when Blueas starts a thread about the inadequacies of Starmers darts technique and the woke sexuality of subbuteo and you don't get the emergency all hands on deck WhatsApp alarm.. |
do you think we should change the venue of the vegan cheese and biodynamic wine social in case herbivore's leaked it?
don't want that lot turning up to the islington communist allotments flicking their "roman" salutes |  |
| |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:58 - Feb 17 with 1469 views | Churchman |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:26 - Feb 17 by itfcjoe |
I thought Lewis Goodall did an excellent piece on this on his Substack
The Transatlantic alliance is collapsing. This may have been the biggest moment for European security since 1991 if not 1945.
Hello from Hastings, and apologies for the radio silence for a couple of weeks. Or rather, the fact there’s been very little radio silence from me these last two weeks is why there’s been silence here. Filling in for the James O’Brien on his mid-morning LBC slot, alongside the Sunday show and News Agents has rather sapped my writing time. But the great man is back, so therefore are the etchings here.
As I say, I’m in Hastings on a long weekend with my wife, so for the sake of her gentle forbearance I shan’t take up too much of your time. But I did feel a compulsion to take to the page, having spent the morning watching and trying to internalise Vice President Vance’s speech to the Munich Security Conference. It comes alongside a triad of other remarks made over the course of the week by those at the top of the American state: Trump, Defense Secretary Hegseth, and Vance himself.
Inside Vance’s speech was a strangulated argument gasping for air, about the ability of democracies to maintain integrity in the face of mass migration, but it expired before entry, suffocated by the hypocrisy and cant which stuffed the Vice President’s mouth. Here was a sitting Vice President of the United States, giving a speech about the security of the European continent. Yet there was not a solitary word of critique for the murderous despot who has invaded Europe’s borders and the sovereignty and freedom of a proud European state. Instead, the Vice President, apparently with the President’s blessing and approval, chastised European leaders on “the threat from within”- a series of largely jaundiced half truths or irrelevancies about the primacy of freedom of speech, a contorted series of non sequiturs that would have made a sixth form debater blush.
“We gather at this conference, of course, to discuss security. And normally we mean threats to our external security. I see many, many great military leaders gathered here today. But while the Trump administration is very concerned with European security and believes that we can come to a reasonable settlement between Russia and Ukraine – and we also believe that it’s important in the coming years for Europe to step up in a big way to provide for its own defence – the threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia, it’s not China, it’s not any other external actor. What I worry about is the threat from within. The retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values: values shared with the United States of America.”- Vice President J.D. Vance, 14th February 2025
The Vice President made clear that the freedom he prises most is not actual freedom, the joy of self-determination: the real liberties that Ukrainian heroes die on the battlefront for every day and its citizens suffer to realise. No, the Vice President was more concerned with the ability of anti-abortion protesters to pray in closer proximity to abortion clinics. He was more concerned with attacking reasonable regulatory provisions which could shut down social media in moments of civil unrest. He was more concerned with making elliptical references to the jailed Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, a jailed far-right thug the MAGA faithful have hailed as a political martyr. If these things were righted, if Europe were to return some fabled political ideals to which Trump is returning the American republic, hilariously the VP seemed to imply, the Russian bear at the gates might not matter so much.
If it weren’t so serious, it would genuinely be funny. Here was a Vice President whose administration has spent these last weeks lauding or at least cordially embracing a Russian regime where freedom of speech does not exist, whilst chastising and insulting democratic allies where it most certainly does. Here was a Vice President scolding European leaders for allowing the pillars of their democracy to fray, whose boss was the head of an actual insurrection in the American Congress. Here is a Vice President lecturing others about freedom of speech, who says he is concerned by the rise of relativism of truth, who does not even dare to say aloud the unalterable objective fact: that Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. In Munich irony died, was exhumed, only for Vance to sever its head again.
Vance’s speech, alongside Hegseth’s comments on Ukraine earlier this week, remind us of several things. First, this is a government of the radicalised online right, for the radicalised online right, by the radicalised online right. It’s government by Breitbart. They don’t care about actual freedom and security, again, the sort Ukrainians are dying for- because there’s frenzied stuff to say about largely imagined attacks on freedom of speech which will get 100k likes on Elon’s Twitter. Second, this is the first US administration since before Roosevelt, probably ever, that not only makes no distinction between democracies and autocracies, but actually prefers the latter. The very things which make liberal democracies liberal democracies- division of power, protection of minority rights, laws which govern freedom of speech, adherence to international law, independent judiciaries- are disliked by the current US government, because they believe they are part of a liberal cosmopolitan plot. Thirdly, they combined this with a preference for great power politics. The sight of Trump saying that he and Putin would, bilaterally negotiate an outcome to the Ukraine war, was a sickening one, bypassing the very people who have spent so much blood for their democratic future, for their actual freedom of speech. In so doing, Trump gave what Putin wanted from the beginning: a Yalta type moment when the future of Europe would be decided by them, and themselves alone. This rejects precisely what this entire war is about: the right of Ukraine to choose its own path, to choose to be a liberal democracy in the European orbit, and not a Russian satellite: how much freedom of speech does JD Vance think Ukrainians held in the occupied Donbas enjoy right now? Any deal fashioned in the way Trump has talked this week would make America, man’s last best hope, an accessory to an imperial adventure. The transatlantic alliance is vanishing before our eyes: for the first time since 1945 the US is neutral about Europe, or worse. Here was Vance saying the only way a Trump White House might care again is if its governments were to Make Europe Great Again- ie adopt a MAGA type programme and philosophy. In the meantime, they have Russia, who already sits closer to MAGA in much of their cultural mores and therefore we have the nightmare scenario of an active compact between Washington and Moscow, with Europe caught in the middle. This is all strategically brand new. NATO no longer means much, if anything at all. It is the world order that Vladimir Putin always wanted to create, handed to him by an American president. It defies belief.
In this world view, the only thing which Trumps respects is strength. In that guise, it is time that Europe finally woke up and listened to what Trump and Vance are saying. American democracy is developing in a new and particular direction. Their world view is different to the European mainstream. And they view Europe as too weak to determine our own future. In a sense- they’re right. In 2016 Europeans comforted themselves in the belief that Trump was too incompetent to do anything. In 2020 Europeans comforted themselves in thinking Trump was a blip. In 2025 Europeans comfort themselves that Trump doesn’t mean what he says. This week may prove the most portentous for European security since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. If this week and Vance’s speech in Munich, the site of too many political betrayals, doesn’t wake Europe up- nothing will. It should have been a week where the veil is lifted: where Europe realises we are on our own. The American state has been captured by a group of people who do not see the world as we do, who are hostile to the world as we want it to be. We must see them for what they are- to their credit, they don’t pretend to be anything else. To our discredit, we lie to ourselves that they do.
https://substack.com/@lewisgoodall/p-157192892 |
I cannot find anything to disagree with in this.
Given how clear the American leadership have been on what they are now, what they want and stand for its blindingly obvious to me what Europe needs to do and in particular the U.K. |  | | |
| I was talking to..... on 13:06 - Feb 17 with 1435 views | leitrimblue |
| I was talking to..... on 12:54 - Feb 17 by positivity |
do you think we should change the venue of the vegan cheese and biodynamic wine social in case herbivore's leaked it?
don't want that lot turning up to the islington communist allotments flicking their "roman" salutes |
Wise call. Perhaps we should rearrange the venue to that LGBTQIA+ approved vegan coffee shop behind Waitrose?
I don't think any of those rotters would dare enter | | | |
| I was talking to..... on 14:30 - Feb 17 with 1306 views | reusersfreekicks |
| I was talking to..... on 10:22 - Feb 17 by lowhouseblue |
ok, my final post on this thread (hurrah).
"If people don't want to engage in debate, don't want to talk about or offer evidence, then how exactly do you begin the debate, let alone win it?"
in politics you're never going to convince everyone. you can't achieve 100% compliance with your views. some people are lost to reason. the vast majority aren't. through debate, challenging nonsense, providing evidence, using reason, you will convince a good number of the reasonable majority who are observing the debate. that's all you need to do. if your opponents won't engage in debate that will also be seen.
what i can absolutely guarantee you won't win you the debate is trying to silence those you disagree with. of course their views will still be heard, but they will have the status of being non-establishment and seen as a form of resistance and something those in power want to hide. and, once silenced, they won't be publicly challenged and proven to be wrong.
but we come back to something we've already know we disagree on. you believe "lots of people don't care about facts and evidence anymore". i don't believe that - or at least i believe that we have a large majority of the population who are reasonable and who respond to evidence and logic. there may be some exceptions, but in general, even though they reach conclusions you disagree with, a majority of people, across all socio-economic classes, respond to reasoned debate. the fact that they may not always agree with you isn't evidence to the contrary. |
Your last para is 10 years,at least, out of date |  | | |
| I was talking to..... on 14:55 - Feb 17 with 1244 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I was talking to..... on 14:25 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
As you asked so nicely.
For many years now this board has had two groups of posters who don't really agree on much politically and perhaps socially. It's a delicate balance. With GB gone and the other side growing in number by the week the board is now not much fun. To join that side it seems you have to leave your personality at the door and become a dour joyless member of the TWTD board police demanding answers and treating the board like it's the House of Commons. It's been sad to see a number of previously excellent posters get radicalised and patrol the board looking for things to be offended by.
They also have an excellent propaganda department where they frequently project their own actions on to the rest of us. The classic being the 'running to Phil' line while they are running to Phil and waving the imaginary yellow cards.
I realise some won't agree but you asked so I answered.
I now wait for the inevitable 12 responses from that side who will completely rewrite history and then pat each other on the back. Bingo card at the ready for all the buzzwords. I'll take disingenuous as my free square.
 |
I think that’s an excellent post. As actually somewhat brave as you’ve now made yourself a target.
The fact they let one of their own the other day get away with calling me a heroin dealer. And doubling down repeatedly without a single one of their gang challenge them sort of proved the point that they’re abit hypocritical. Imagine that was Frimley, Bloots, Lowhouse, GB or anyone else that they disagreed with had said that to the poster who named me as that. It would be a pile on of epic proportions.
And the point is they ignore all reason. In that thread I’d argued repeatedly that some gambling measures needed to be introduced. In this type of Trump related thread much of their anger is as if their target has endorsed Trump. Or is promoting trump material. When sometimes it’s just that they’re not as vocal in their hatred. A thread a couple of weeks ago from Grizzly had deliberately posted something about trumps advisor saying a racist comment about black pilots when in fact it was the opposite point being made.
I obviously despise trump but it’s as if unless you outright state it on here, you instantly become an enemy of their clique. In person I’d probably find myself agreeing with a lot of their points but on here, it’s repetitive cliquey nonsense. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| I was talking to..... on 15:06 - Feb 17 with 1196 views | reusersfreekicks |
| I was talking to..... on 14:55 - Feb 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think that’s an excellent post. As actually somewhat brave as you’ve now made yourself a target.
The fact they let one of their own the other day get away with calling me a heroin dealer. And doubling down repeatedly without a single one of their gang challenge them sort of proved the point that they’re abit hypocritical. Imagine that was Frimley, Bloots, Lowhouse, GB or anyone else that they disagreed with had said that to the poster who named me as that. It would be a pile on of epic proportions.
And the point is they ignore all reason. In that thread I’d argued repeatedly that some gambling measures needed to be introduced. In this type of Trump related thread much of their anger is as if their target has endorsed Trump. Or is promoting trump material. When sometimes it’s just that they’re not as vocal in their hatred. A thread a couple of weeks ago from Grizzly had deliberately posted something about trumps advisor saying a racist comment about black pilots when in fact it was the opposite point being made.
I obviously despise trump but it’s as if unless you outright state it on here, you instantly become an enemy of their clique. In person I’d probably find myself agreeing with a lot of their points but on here, it’s repetitive cliquey nonsense. |
I really don't get this clique thing at all. I just speak out on things I disagree with yet you and others seem to want to lump us together as some kind of cabal.
Honestly! Do you se me as being in it?
What hassle has J2 had for that post?? Couple of very mild responses, so didn't have to be so brave did he?
Seems like there is alot of playing the victim on here. Mullet disagreed with you re the morality of your job. Did others pile in with him? Nope. Anyone could post against it. Did they? Not many that I saw.
Guess people see what they want to see. | | | |
| I was talking to..... on 15:22 - Feb 17 with 1149 views | J2BLUE |
| I was talking to..... on 15:06 - Feb 17 by reusersfreekicks |
I really don't get this clique thing at all. I just speak out on things I disagree with yet you and others seem to want to lump us together as some kind of cabal.
Honestly! Do you se me as being in it?
What hassle has J2 had for that post?? Couple of very mild responses, so didn't have to be so brave did he?
Seems like there is alot of playing the victim on here. Mullet disagreed with you re the morality of your job. Did others pile in with him? Nope. Anyone could post against it. Did they? Not many that I saw.
Guess people see what they want to see. |
Stop bullying me! |  |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:25 - Feb 17 with 1119 views | positivity |
| I was talking to..... on 15:22 - Feb 17 by J2BLUE |
Stop bullying me! |
woke snowflake! | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:26 - Feb 17 with 1109 views | Kropotkin123 |
| I was talking to..... on 15:06 - Feb 17 by reusersfreekicks |
I really don't get this clique thing at all. I just speak out on things I disagree with yet you and others seem to want to lump us together as some kind of cabal.
Honestly! Do you se me as being in it?
What hassle has J2 had for that post?? Couple of very mild responses, so didn't have to be so brave did he?
Seems like there is alot of playing the victim on here. Mullet disagreed with you re the morality of your job. Did others pile in with him? Nope. Anyone could post against it. Did they? Not many that I saw.
Guess people see what they want to see. |
It comes across as a clique to me at times. I gave Lowhouse some advice and they are free to work on that when the dust has settled and you are free too.
It's nice to feel supported through up votes and down votes and I often use it as an "agree" or "disagree" button. But when you are a lone voice objecting, and you have multiple people disagreeing, it is pretty painful as an observer to see the same people down vote every single post made by the disagreeing party.
At that point you, as in all the agreeing people, are already clear to everyone that they disagree and the down votes subsequently come across as punative. The idea that you, the group in that circumstance, are open to a debate doesn't square with down voting the person on every post.
Crucially, as the down votes person, it doesn't feel like you and your viewpoint are genuinely being listened to and considered.
Just my opinion. Like Lowhouse, you can take it or leave it. [Post edited 17 Feb 15:28]
|  |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:26 - Feb 17 with 1108 views | Dubtractor |
| I was talking to..... on 15:22 - Feb 17 by J2BLUE |
Stop bullying me! |
Snowflake.
 | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:34 - Feb 17 with 1058 views | DJR |
| I was talking to..... on 15:26 - Feb 17 by Kropotkin123 |
It comes across as a clique to me at times. I gave Lowhouse some advice and they are free to work on that when the dust has settled and you are free too.
It's nice to feel supported through up votes and down votes and I often use it as an "agree" or "disagree" button. But when you are a lone voice objecting, and you have multiple people disagreeing, it is pretty painful as an observer to see the same people down vote every single post made by the disagreeing party.
At that point you, as in all the agreeing people, are already clear to everyone that they disagree and the down votes subsequently come across as punative. The idea that you, the group in that circumstance, are open to a debate doesn't square with down voting the person on every post.
Crucially, as the down votes person, it doesn't feel like you and your viewpoint are genuinely being listened to and considered.
Just my opinion. Like Lowhouse, you can take it or leave it. [Post edited 17 Feb 15:28]
|
I never downvote people, and am happy to argue my case even if no one agrees with me. I get the impression that Lowhouse is much the same (apart from the downvoting part).
Free speech doesn't mean that each side has to have a balanced number.
And as John Stuart Mill said.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." [Post edited 17 Feb 15:37]
|  | | |
| I was talking to..... on 15:37 - Feb 17 with 1033 views | leitrimblue |
| I was talking to..... on 14:55 - Feb 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
I think that’s an excellent post. As actually somewhat brave as you’ve now made yourself a target.
The fact they let one of their own the other day get away with calling me a heroin dealer. And doubling down repeatedly without a single one of their gang challenge them sort of proved the point that they’re abit hypocritical. Imagine that was Frimley, Bloots, Lowhouse, GB or anyone else that they disagreed with had said that to the poster who named me as that. It would be a pile on of epic proportions.
And the point is they ignore all reason. In that thread I’d argued repeatedly that some gambling measures needed to be introduced. In this type of Trump related thread much of their anger is as if their target has endorsed Trump. Or is promoting trump material. When sometimes it’s just that they’re not as vocal in their hatred. A thread a couple of weeks ago from Grizzly had deliberately posted something about trumps advisor saying a racist comment about black pilots when in fact it was the opposite point being made.
I obviously despise trump but it’s as if unless you outright state it on here, you instantly become an enemy of their clique. In person I’d probably find myself agreeing with a lot of their points but on here, it’s repetitive cliquey nonsense. |
Good work, this absolute premier league level blubbing 
Absolutely Blubtastic | | | |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 15:39 - Feb 17 with 1007 views | DJR |
The song "He's one of our own" takes on a whole new meaning! | | | |
| I was talking to..... on 15:44 - Feb 17 with 968 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I was talking to..... on 15:06 - Feb 17 by reusersfreekicks |
I really don't get this clique thing at all. I just speak out on things I disagree with yet you and others seem to want to lump us together as some kind of cabal.
Honestly! Do you se me as being in it?
What hassle has J2 had for that post?? Couple of very mild responses, so didn't have to be so brave did he?
Seems like there is alot of playing the victim on here. Mullet disagreed with you re the morality of your job. Did others pile in with him? Nope. Anyone could post against it. Did they? Not many that I saw.
Guess people see what they want to see. |
Think you’ll find he said I was as bad as a smack dealer
That’s my point that none of you posted against it. if that was me saying something as ridiculous and offensive towards his job, I’d have been crucified
Anyway you’re the only one putting yourself in the clique. My list of names in my head didn’t include you. I post far less on here these days so only remember those who shout loudest. You as of yet do not. So no I guess you’re not in the clique | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:45 - Feb 17 with 966 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I was talking to..... on 15:26 - Feb 17 by Kropotkin123 |
It comes across as a clique to me at times. I gave Lowhouse some advice and they are free to work on that when the dust has settled and you are free too.
It's nice to feel supported through up votes and down votes and I often use it as an "agree" or "disagree" button. But when you are a lone voice objecting, and you have multiple people disagreeing, it is pretty painful as an observer to see the same people down vote every single post made by the disagreeing party.
At that point you, as in all the agreeing people, are already clear to everyone that they disagree and the down votes subsequently come across as punative. The idea that you, the group in that circumstance, are open to a debate doesn't square with down voting the person on every post.
Crucially, as the down votes person, it doesn't feel like you and your viewpoint are genuinely being listened to and considered.
Just my opinion. Like Lowhouse, you can take it or leave it. [Post edited 17 Feb 15:28]
|
Good post | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:48 - Feb 17 with 959 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I was talking to..... on 15:37 - Feb 17 by leitrimblue |
Good work, this absolute premier league level blubbing
Absolutely Blubtastic |
Unlike some, I don’t take this place too seriously.
See this thread. It’s as if the world would end if lowhouse wasn’t challenged by 73 posters at once. Who gives a f+*k yano? Get a life (not aimed at yourself specifically)
I just say what I see. | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:50 - Feb 17 with 938 views | positivity |
| I was talking to..... on 15:34 - Feb 17 by DJR |
I never downvote people, and am happy to argue my case even if no one agrees with me. I get the impression that Lowhouse is much the same (apart from the downvoting part).
Free speech doesn't mean that each side has to have a balanced number.
And as John Stuart Mill said.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." [Post edited 17 Feb 15:37]
|
i think people use votes in different ways, i never down or up vote people, but i do vote statements that i agree/disagree with or are just plain factual truth/wrong.
just quicker and less messy than posting "this."/"not this." to every post.
i think people would have to have a pretty thin skin to take much umbrage with this (and they'd have to be pretty extreme to get more down than up votes overall!) | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 15:58 - Feb 17 with 898 views | positivity |
| I was talking to..... on 15:44 - Feb 17 by The_Romford_Blue |
Think you’ll find he said I was as bad as a smack dealer
That’s my point that none of you posted against it. if that was me saying something as ridiculous and offensive towards his job, I’d have been crucified
Anyway you’re the only one putting yourself in the clique. My list of names in my head didn’t include you. I post far less on here these days so only remember those who shout loudest. You as of yet do not. So no I guess you’re not in the clique |
as j2 said, no-one sees everything on this site, maybe they just didn't read that thread? i know i hadn't seen it | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 16:00 - Feb 17 with 887 views | Churchman |
| I was talking to..... on 15:34 - Feb 17 by DJR |
I never downvote people, and am happy to argue my case even if no one agrees with me. I get the impression that Lowhouse is much the same (apart from the downvoting part).
Free speech doesn't mean that each side has to have a balanced number.
And as John Stuart Mill said.
"If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind." [Post edited 17 Feb 15:37]
|
I don’t downvote either barring the odd one for stirrers from other clubs; trolling. I see no purpose in it.
“The only freedom which deserves the name is that of pursuing our own good in our own way, so long as we do not attempt to deprive others of theirs, or impede their efforts to obtain it.”
John Stuart Mill.
Best buddies Trump and Putin along with JD (Jerk Dimwit?) Vance clearly disagree with Mr Mill. | | | |
| I was talking to..... on 16:03 - Feb 17 with 860 views | DJR |
| I was talking to..... on 15:50 - Feb 17 by positivity |
i think people use votes in different ways, i never down or up vote people, but i do vote statements that i agree/disagree with or are just plain factual truth/wrong.
just quicker and less messy than posting "this."/"not this." to every post.
i think people would have to have a pretty thin skin to take much umbrage with this (and they'd have to be pretty extreme to get more down than up votes overall!) |
Your point about statements rather than people is a fair one, but I still tend to feel there is an element of the personal in a downvote not least because the reason for the downvote may not be obvious.
When it comes to upvotes, I suppose I am a bit arbitrary and inconsistent because I don't upvote anywhere near the number of posts I agree with but one thing I do aim to do is never to upvote a comment, even if I agree with the bulk of it, if it contains a dig at a person. | | | |
| I was talking to..... on 16:03 - Feb 17 with 853 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| I was talking to..... on 15:50 - Feb 17 by positivity |
i think people use votes in different ways, i never down or up vote people, but i do vote statements that i agree/disagree with or are just plain factual truth/wrong.
just quicker and less messy than posting "this."/"not this." to every post.
i think people would have to have a pretty thin skin to take much umbrage with this (and they'd have to be pretty extreme to get more down than up votes overall!) |
Customary down vote for this btw.
TWTD tradition innit | |
| |
| I was talking to..... on 16:05 - Feb 17 with 835 views | positivity |
| I was talking to..... on 16:03 - Feb 17 by DJR |
Your point about statements rather than people is a fair one, but I still tend to feel there is an element of the personal in a downvote not least because the reason for the downvote may not be obvious.
When it comes to upvotes, I suppose I am a bit arbitrary and inconsistent because I don't upvote anywhere near the number of posts I agree with but one thing I do aim to do is never to upvote a comment, even if I agree with the bulk of it, if it contains a dig at a person. |
that last one's an an interesting one to bear in mind; play the ball, not the man... [Post edited 17 Feb 16:06]
| |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
