| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:39 - Feb 16 with 1935 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:30 - Feb 16 by StokieBlue |
Why do you keep trying to pigeon hole a debate about free speech into one about political views? Your last paragraph ignores context yet again but I'm not going to go through it all again.
"the fact that someone like you thinks they are always right"
Had just about enough of this, that's the 3rd personal attack on me without justification in this thread. Always the same from your little cliché, once the debate gets a bit difficult you all resort to personal attacks.
SB |
it's not a personal attack. i am making the very obvious point that EVERYONE thinks they are right - free speech cannot be restricted on the basis of believing that other people are wrong - those other people think you are wrong and probably would choose to limit your free speech.
attacks on free speech most commonly come up in the context of political debate. political speech is considered by strassbourg and our own courts to justify the highest level of protection. the protection of conflicting political views is central to democracy - silencing political opponents is the hallmark of oppression. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:40 - Feb 16 with 1948 views | DJR |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:31 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
the buffer zone law is a perfect example of the fair application of articles 9 and 10. there is a conflict of rights - someone's free speech and right to protest v. someone else's right to access an essential service without fear of intimidation or threat or harassment. its is a geographically narrow restriction on free speech for a clear purpose and represents a proportionate response. people can still say whatever they like, within the law, outside of the buffer zone (or indeed within the buffer zone when it is not harassing or distressing others). so a limited and proportionate restriction for a clearly legitimate purpose. |
But not according to Vance who used that as the one issue to criticise the UK about. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:42]
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:41 - Feb 16 with 1937 views | positivity |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 22:53 - Feb 15 by Swansea_Blue |
He has done multiple times, so he clearly understands the definition, but then he twists it to try to diminish potential breaches of free speech as just as opinions.
It’s very much like his misinterpretation of immigration stats, twisting it as something not needed, when the reality is that the vast majority are wanted by businesses or because we have a world-leading global university education sector. Imagine trying to be internationally world-leading if you cut yourself off from the world lol.
He’s going back on the div list. |
think this is the key to dealing with this tedious, abusive troll.
ignore him and spend your time on people who aren't so fundamentalist and closed-minded |  |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:48 - Feb 16 with 1865 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:34 - Feb 16 by redrickstuhaart |
He is trying to frame it as some debate about free speech, despite not a single person in this thread having said they support censorship. It is a way of distracting from and evading the actual points made.
Notably, despite claiming its just my "opinion", he still hasn't indicated why it is not a fact that Vance claimed that people in scotland have been warned about praying within their own homes near an abortion clinic, or why such rhetoric is not purposely divisive and dangerous... |
my first post on the thread was a reply to your own call to limit vance's free speech because his "Deliberate, rabble rousing misinformation is at the foundation of so many problems and so much violence and division." so that's where the discussion started.
we have incitement laws - no court would find that vance's rhetoric was "purposely divisive and dangerous". the fact that you put yourself in the role of defining other people's unacceptable speech illustrates precisely why speech shouldn't be further restricted. seeking to silence people you disagree with is despotic. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:48 - Feb 16 with 1858 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:40 - Feb 16 by DJR |
But not according to Vance who used that as the one issue to criticise the UK about. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:42]
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vance is wrong. many people are wrong about many things. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:53]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:50 - Feb 16 with 1851 views | redrickstuhaart |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:48 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
my first post on the thread was a reply to your own call to limit vance's free speech because his "Deliberate, rabble rousing misinformation is at the foundation of so many problems and so much violence and division." so that's where the discussion started.
we have incitement laws - no court would find that vance's rhetoric was "purposely divisive and dangerous". the fact that you put yourself in the role of defining other people's unacceptable speech illustrates precisely why speech shouldn't be further restricted. seeking to silence people you disagree with is despotic. |
Quote the bit where I called to limit vance's free speech?
Whilst you are at it, stop evading the point that was made all the way back on, and acknowledge that it was as a matter of fact (not opinion) deliberate dangerous rabble rousing misinformation. Or explain why it is not.
Your reply need only be two points. A quote and confirmation / refutation. Conciseness is your friend. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:52]
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:51 - Feb 16 with 1823 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:41 - Feb 16 by positivity |
think this is the key to dealing with this tedious, abusive troll.
ignore him and spend your time on people who aren't so fundamentalist and closed-minded |
please do put me on ignore. i'm not feeling i'll be missing a lot. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:51 - Feb 16 with 1826 views | DJR |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:48 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
vance is wrong. many people are wrong about many things. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:53]
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Not a good look from a Vice President though, and sums up the new sheriff in town and his proteges and camp* followers.
*perhaps not an appropriate choice of word when it comes to Trump and MAGA. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:55]
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:54 - Feb 16 with 1770 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:51 - Feb 16 by DJR |
Not a good look from a Vice President though, and sums up the new sheriff in town and his proteges and camp* followers.
*perhaps not an appropriate choice of word when it comes to Trump and MAGA. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:55]
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there isn't much about trump or vance which is a good look. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:03 - Feb 16 with 1723 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:50 - Feb 16 by redrickstuhaart |
Quote the bit where I called to limit vance's free speech?
Whilst you are at it, stop evading the point that was made all the way back on, and acknowledge that it was as a matter of fact (not opinion) deliberate dangerous rabble rousing misinformation. Or explain why it is not.
Your reply need only be two points. A quote and confirmation / refutation. Conciseness is your friend. [Post edited 16 Feb 10:52]
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do your own searching.
seeing something said by someone you disagree with as "deliberate dangerous rabble rousing misinformation" is clearly an opinion not a fact.
"dangerous rabble rousing" is based on your subjective view of him, his beliefs and his motives. it is 'dangerous' within your political view of the world and the policies you think are right and those you think are wrong. everyone's assessment of political danger is subjective.
'misinformation" in the specific context of the non-existent letter seems fair in that the letter seems to have been proven not to exist. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:07 - Feb 16 with 1702 views | redrickstuhaart |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:03 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
do your own searching.
seeing something said by someone you disagree with as "deliberate dangerous rabble rousing misinformation" is clearly an opinion not a fact.
"dangerous rabble rousing" is based on your subjective view of him, his beliefs and his motives. it is 'dangerous' within your political view of the world and the policies you think are right and those you think are wrong. everyone's assessment of political danger is subjective.
'misinformation" in the specific context of the non-existent letter seems fair in that the letter seems to have been proven not to exist. |
No need to do my own searching.
You are dishonest and disingenuous. You wont provide a quote, because, once again, you are making assertions which are simply untrue. You have probably had a look and realised that.... Hence the evasion.
Finally you recognise that what Vance said was patently untrue. You have been claiming repeatedly that this was just my opinion. Embarrassing.
Having accepted it was blatantly untrue, what was its purpose do you think? Consider that question in the context of the sort of rhetoric which has become the norm in the US; "Theyre eating the dogs" etc). Notably, even now you just assert that its my "subjective view" rather than be clear about your own view, or provide any justification for rejecting what I said.
Div listed. | | | |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:10 - Feb 16 with 1687 views | Herbivore |
Amusing to see a one person car crash free wheeling around accusing "the left" of wanting to censor free speech when nobody has said that and people have in fact simply called out clear falsehoods from Vance and expressed strong views about the danger his rhetoric poses. Imagine expending this much time and energy making up and arguing against a point nobody has made so you can defend a feckwit like Vance. Staggering really. [Post edited 16 Feb 11:16]
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:18 - Feb 16 with 1640 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:07 - Feb 16 by redrickstuhaart |
No need to do my own searching.
You are dishonest and disingenuous. You wont provide a quote, because, once again, you are making assertions which are simply untrue. You have probably had a look and realised that.... Hence the evasion.
Finally you recognise that what Vance said was patently untrue. You have been claiming repeatedly that this was just my opinion. Embarrassing.
Having accepted it was blatantly untrue, what was its purpose do you think? Consider that question in the context of the sort of rhetoric which has become the norm in the US; "Theyre eating the dogs" etc). Notably, even now you just assert that its my "subjective view" rather than be clear about your own view, or provide any justification for rejecting what I said.
Div listed. |
the fact that he said something that was wrong is bad. it shows him not to check facts, not to use reliable sources and to be lazy. it's not at all a good look for a vice-president.
you don't dispute that the other things you said were subjective and not a matter of fact. they were your views which you can certainly express. i might agree with your views, or i might not, but in neither case is silencing vance justified.
the original post i replied to was "And this, Mr Vance, is precisely why intelligent decent people who favour free speech, are often inclined to say it cannot be absolute. Deliberate, rabble rousing misinformation is at the foundation of so many problems and so much violence and division." it is a clear assertion that what he has said lies beyond what the law should allow.
thank you for div listing me. your intolerance of alternative views, and your discomfort when challenged, clearly makes that the best solution. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:22 - Feb 16 with 1620 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:10 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
Amusing to see a one person car crash free wheeling around accusing "the left" of wanting to censor free speech when nobody has said that and people have in fact simply called out clear falsehoods from Vance and expressed strong views about the danger his rhetoric poses. Imagine expending this much time and energy making up and arguing against a point nobody has made so you can defend a feckwit like Vance. Staggering really. [Post edited 16 Feb 11:16]
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it's the self appointed board referee come to editorialise. i've been defending free speech, articles 9 and 10 of the echr, the strassbourg court and the rule of law in the uk. and i've been the only one championing those things. thankfully i don't need your approval to do that.
if you can div list me as well that will be all the down arrows gone. plus it will mean you don't have to read stuff you disagree with which will be less challenging for you. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:34 - Feb 16 with 1571 views | Herbivore |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:22 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
it's the self appointed board referee come to editorialise. i've been defending free speech, articles 9 and 10 of the echr, the strassbourg court and the rule of law in the uk. and i've been the only one championing those things. thankfully i don't need your approval to do that.
if you can div list me as well that will be all the down arrows gone. plus it will mean you don't have to read stuff you disagree with which will be less challenging for you. |
More straw men than a Robin Hardy film, most shilling I've seen since the dawn of decimalisation. | |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:40 - Feb 16 with 1534 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:34 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
More straw men than a Robin Hardy film, most shilling I've seen since the dawn of decimalisation. |
again editorialising rather than being able to engage with what's said. all the standard trick. go on, put me on ignore - you can make your own bespoke and private bubble like restriction on free speech. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:46 - Feb 16 with 1502 views | Herbivore |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:40 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
again editorialising rather than being able to engage with what's said. all the standard trick. go on, put me on ignore - you can make your own bespoke and private bubble like restriction on free speech. |
I think almost all views on this thread have been expressed quite well so don't have a lot to add. Like everyone else, I am not calling for free speech to be scrapped because that would be ridiculous and only an imbecile would think that anyone has actually argued for that. I also think the likes of Vance and Trump are dangerous because they see no value in truth and are all about trying to control the narrative and are happy to use clear examples of falsehoods to enable them to do so. I think most reasonable people would be concerned about that and what it means for society. I don't see an issue with being forceful in opposing the pernicious creep of misinformation, it's been poisoning our political well significantly in recent times, aided by social media and bad faith actors, and I'm surprised some people can't see that. | |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:07 - Feb 16 with 1424 views | lowhouseblue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:46 - Feb 16 by Herbivore |
I think almost all views on this thread have been expressed quite well so don't have a lot to add. Like everyone else, I am not calling for free speech to be scrapped because that would be ridiculous and only an imbecile would think that anyone has actually argued for that. I also think the likes of Vance and Trump are dangerous because they see no value in truth and are all about trying to control the narrative and are happy to use clear examples of falsehoods to enable them to do so. I think most reasonable people would be concerned about that and what it means for society. I don't see an issue with being forceful in opposing the pernicious creep of misinformation, it's been poisoning our political well significantly in recent times, aided by social media and bad faith actors, and I'm surprised some people can't see that. |
people have indeed argued for free speech to be further restricted - equally they have had multiple opportunities to deny that. BUT the rest of your post i agree with entirely - you express the situation well. my position is that free speech is the best answer to the problems you describe. indeed it is the only answer. misinformation can only be countered by speech, the narrative can only be challenged with speech. falsehoods must be shown to be false. in politically dangerous times free speech becomes more critical, not less. in such times attempts to restrict free speech are even more frightening than before - such restrictions will be used by those in power to silence their critics. they will end up being used against you and people who think like you. the scenario you have set out means that free speech and human rights law needs to be championed even more strongly now than at any other time. it's not something to quibble about.
you can have an up arrow excluding your first line. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:15 - Feb 16 with 1376 views | NewcyBlue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 00:08 - Feb 16 by reusersfreekicks |
I hear you. Over and out. |
Over means “I want a reply”
Out means “I do not want a reply”. |  |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:19 - Feb 16 with 1336 views | NewcyBlue |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 10:51 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
please do put me on ignore. i'm not feeling i'll be missing a lot. |
jeez you’re repetitively dull. | |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:23 - Feb 16 with 1292 views | Mercian |
The hypocrisy of Vance would be unbelievable if his boss was not Donald Trump who regularly calls people or organisations that criticise him in the smallest way "Enemies of the people." and demands that they are jailed/shut down. On Thursday Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez advised immigrants in California of their rights and who to contact to clarify them. The response, calls from many Republicans for her to be arrested and jailed. Free speech my a*se. [Post edited 16 Feb 12:24]
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| I was talking to..... on 12:24 - Feb 16 with 1286 views | Bloots |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 11:18 - Feb 16 by lowhouseblue |
the fact that he said something that was wrong is bad. it shows him not to check facts, not to use reliable sources and to be lazy. it's not at all a good look for a vice-president.
you don't dispute that the other things you said were subjective and not a matter of fact. they were your views which you can certainly express. i might agree with your views, or i might not, but in neither case is silencing vance justified.
the original post i replied to was "And this, Mr Vance, is precisely why intelligent decent people who favour free speech, are often inclined to say it cannot be absolute. Deliberate, rabble rousing misinformation is at the foundation of so many problems and so much violence and division." it is a clear assertion that what he has said lies beyond what the law should allow.
thank you for div listing me. your intolerance of alternative views, and your discomfort when challenged, clearly makes that the best solution. |
....an intelligent gentleman, previously of this parish, the other day.
He described you as having the patience of a saint when dealing with these people.
I can see exactly what he means.
You are better at this than most. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| I was talking to..... on 12:58 - Feb 16 with 1160 views | J2BLUE |
| I was talking to..... on 12:24 - Feb 16 by Bloots |
....an intelligent gentleman, previously of this parish, the other day.
He described you as having the patience of a saint when dealing with these people.
I can see exactly what he means.
You are better at this than most. |
The balance of the forum has been all wrong since GB was banned. |  |
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| It's basically just..... on 13:05 - Feb 16 with 1116 views | Bloots |
| I was talking to..... on 12:58 - Feb 16 by J2BLUE |
The balance of the forum has been all wrong since GB was banned. |
.....the same 4 or 5 posters shouting relentlessly at anyone that disagrees with them.
It would inevitably be called a "pile on" if it was anyone else doing it.
Although since GB got banned I've seen a distinct lack of threads about Gaza/Israel being started by a certain poster. I wonder why? | |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 13:06 - Feb 16 with 1116 views | blueasfook |
| JD Vance being somewhat rude to his hosts on 12:23 - Feb 16 by Mercian |
The hypocrisy of Vance would be unbelievable if his boss was not Donald Trump who regularly calls people or organisations that criticise him in the smallest way "Enemies of the people." and demands that they are jailed/shut down. On Thursday Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez advised immigrants in California of their rights and who to contact to clarify them. The response, calls from many Republicans for her to be arrested and jailed. Free speech my a*se. [Post edited 16 Feb 12:24]
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It's worrying what he's doing with Ukraine. It sounds like he's gonna roll over and have his belly tickled by Putin and poor Ukraine are gonna end up shafted.and without the possibility of future NATO membership for guarantees that Putin won't invade again. Trump is gonna make an absolute bollox of the situation.
I hope Ukraine refuse it and carry on. They'll still have the backing of European allies i think. Putin getting his own way in Ukraine is not good for any of us |  |
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