| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors 06:53 - Mar 5 with 2755 views | reusersfreekicks |
in their own countries?
Edit - and Vance [Post edited 5 Mar 6:53]
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 07:17 - Mar 5 with 2446 views | Churchman |
No, not traitors. Farage is nothing. The more he talks, the more obvious it is he is a putrid bag of wind. For all that, Farage is not a traitor in the way I’d define the word. Just a shtstain to paraphrase Jonathan Pie.
Trump is not a traitor either. The orange shtgibbon like Hitler before him and best mate Putin is many things, but principally an egotistical nutjob that has duped 350m people. President Gibbon has made the world a far more dangerous place than it was Jan 1st.
Evidence of his delusion last night: "I was saved by God to make America great again, I believe that," he said, reiterating a line he said in his inaugural address. Crazy but not a traitor. [Post edited 5 Mar 7:44]
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:02 - Mar 5 with 2345 views | JackNorthStand |
No.
Can be a lot of things and criticised but traitor is not right. Both believe they are acting in the best interests of their country.
Unless you believe conspiracy theories in which case you believe traitor is adequate in Trumps case.
Interestingly enough I saw an interview with someone yesterday on tv, saying this is a brutal ( for Ukraine at present ) but clever move by Trump for the USA ( securing the mineral deal ) and could secure ukraines long term future protection ( by having US interest there, without being part of NATO)
And of course I have heard interviews saying otherwise saying this is bad for all parties other than Russia.
The world is a bizzare place these last few years. |  | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:48 - Mar 5 with 2277 views | Guthrum |
No.
Trump is Head of State directing official government policy, not working against it to the benefit of an enemy. Cosying up to an erstwhile rival (with whom they are not formally at war) is simply a change of direction in foreign policy.
Farage has not, to the best of my knowlege, done anything which would contravene UK treason law. |  |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:55 - Mar 5 with 2245 views | Guthrum |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:02 - Mar 5 by JackNorthStand |
No.
Can be a lot of things and criticised but traitor is not right. Both believe they are acting in the best interests of their country.
Unless you believe conspiracy theories in which case you believe traitor is adequate in Trumps case.
Interestingly enough I saw an interview with someone yesterday on tv, saying this is a brutal ( for Ukraine at present ) but clever move by Trump for the USA ( securing the mineral deal ) and could secure ukraines long term future protection ( by having US interest there, without being part of NATO)
And of course I have heard interviews saying otherwise saying this is bad for all parties other than Russia.
The world is a bizzare place these last few years. |
How good a deal for the Ukrainians it might be depends entirely on to what extent Trump would support US civilian contractors in the country or, indeed, have a problem with them passing under Russian control instead of Kyiv's (so long as the benefits kept flowing his way).
Which would depend on the specific circumstances at the time and what would make Trump look best in the media and to his cultists/donors. | |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:11 - Mar 5 with 2154 views | Trequartista |
No they just see the world differently. Trump's in charge, and its the most powerful country in the world, so we don't have to like him, but we have to adapt to circumstances. |  |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:14 - Mar 5 with 2131 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:48 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
No.
Trump is Head of State directing official government policy, not working against it to the benefit of an enemy. Cosying up to an erstwhile rival (with whom they are not formally at war) is simply a change of direction in foreign policy.
Farage has not, to the best of my knowlege, done anything which would contravene UK treason law. |
Although Trump is turning on his allies. |  |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:19 - Mar 5 with 2107 views | DJR |
We may not like it, or his modus operandi, but Trump has a mandate for what he is doing, so no, he is not a traitor.
But he certainly is treacherous when it comes to his allies. [Post edited 5 Mar 9:21]
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:27 - Mar 5 with 2046 views | Guthrum |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:14 - Mar 5 by Swansea_Blue |
Although Trump is turning on his allies. |
Again, that's just a change in foreign policy. Which is within the rights of an incoming government.
It may not be moral, or display much trustworthiness for the future, but it isn't treasin. | |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:28 - Mar 5 with 2037 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:19 - Mar 5 by DJR |
We may not like it, or his modus operandi, but Trump has a mandate for what he is doing, so no, he is not a traitor.
But he certainly is treacherous when it comes to his allies. [Post edited 5 Mar 9:21]
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If it later transpired that the election was ‘fixed’ then I would say he was a traitor. |  |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:38 - Mar 5 with 1965 views | lowhouseblue |
he's someone you / we disagree with. but he just who won an election. and the democrats calling him names and claiming that he is outside of acceptable politics seems to be part of why he won. if we do the same with farage and ignore the issues on which he has support the same may happen here. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:42 - Mar 5 with 1955 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:27 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
Again, that's just a change in foreign policy. Which is within the rights of an incoming government.
It may not be moral, or display much trustworthiness for the future, but it isn't treasin. |
I’m not so sure.
- Orchestrating/encouraging the overthrowing of America’s seat of democracy.
- Removing sanctions on Russia
- Removing the need for security clearances to access official secrets
- Removing units tasked with keeping America safe from espionage and cyberattacks
- Diluting the CIA
All (except the first) could be explained away as a shift in policy, but none of them benefit America. They do all strengthen the hand of a certain Vladimir Putin.
I don’t think anyone can truthfully know whether he’s deliberately working against America’s best interests. There’s enough evidence to suggest we shouldn’t discount the idea just yet, imo. | |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:50 - Mar 5 with 1913 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:02 - Mar 5 by JackNorthStand |
No.
Can be a lot of things and criticised but traitor is not right. Both believe they are acting in the best interests of their country.
Unless you believe conspiracy theories in which case you believe traitor is adequate in Trumps case.
Interestingly enough I saw an interview with someone yesterday on tv, saying this is a brutal ( for Ukraine at present ) but clever move by Trump for the USA ( securing the mineral deal ) and could secure ukraines long term future protection ( by having US interest there, without being part of NATO)
And of course I have heard interviews saying otherwise saying this is bad for all parties other than Russia.
The world is a bizzare place these last few years. |
Agree, traitor might be too strong, but Trump is not acting in the best interest of the USA.
He is acting in the best interest of very niche parts of the US system who put him in power and continue to pull the strings (Project 2025) and has a huge interest in how he can enrich himself, his family and those closest too him.
He hides behind (and occasionally appears to feck) the American flag. |  | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 10:31 - Mar 5 with 1817 views | Guthrum |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 09:42 - Mar 5 by Swansea_Blue |
I’m not so sure.
- Orchestrating/encouraging the overthrowing of America’s seat of democracy.
- Removing sanctions on Russia
- Removing the need for security clearances to access official secrets
- Removing units tasked with keeping America safe from espionage and cyberattacks
- Diluting the CIA
All (except the first) could be explained away as a shift in policy, but none of them benefit America. They do all strengthen the hand of a certain Vladimir Putin.
I don’t think anyone can truthfully know whether he’s deliberately working against America’s best interests. There’s enough evidence to suggest we shouldn’t discount the idea just yet, imo. |
But they are delivering what Trump and his administration percieve, wrongly or wrongly, to be in the best interests of the USA. All governments are capable of sincerely enacting initiatives bad for their countries*. Unless it turns out they are being paid by the FSB to do these things, then it is just official policy backed by an electoral mandate.
Jan 6th was extremely close to treason (in the sense of overthrowing the constitution), but he was cleared by Congress of any wrongdoing. Unfortuantely, a partisan process is the only system they have for prosecuting Presidents.
In some ways it might have been better had Trump won in 2020. Four years of the more moderated first-term Trump, surrounded by fewer loons, with the Putin/Ukraine problem landing on his desk, perhaps preferable to the vengeful, untrammelled current version.
* See: Brexit | |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 13:27 - Mar 5 with 1625 views | bsw72 |
Treason in the US is based on the following in the constituion:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court. "
As for treason in the UK there are 2 classifications, High Treason which is generally for crimes against the monarchy and petty treason, which is a lot more subjective. |  | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 13:34 - Mar 5 with 1591 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:02 - Mar 5 by JackNorthStand |
No.
Can be a lot of things and criticised but traitor is not right. Both believe they are acting in the best interests of their country.
Unless you believe conspiracy theories in which case you believe traitor is adequate in Trumps case.
Interestingly enough I saw an interview with someone yesterday on tv, saying this is a brutal ( for Ukraine at present ) but clever move by Trump for the USA ( securing the mineral deal ) and could secure ukraines long term future protection ( by having US interest there, without being part of NATO)
And of course I have heard interviews saying otherwise saying this is bad for all parties other than Russia.
The world is a bizzare place these last few years. |
Yeah, not convinced a handful of US security contractors is going to be much of a deterrent to Putin. Trump’s trust in Putin will come back to bite him (and unfortunately probably the rest of the west).
There are some parallels with how Stalin tried to align himself with Hitler, even going as far as providing fuel and training to the Germans in the Battle of Britain. Only for Hitler to turn on Stalin when he thought the moment was right. Once an expansionist dictator, always an expansionist dictator… | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 14:21 - Mar 5 with 1501 views | mellowblue |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 10:31 - Mar 5 by Guthrum |
But they are delivering what Trump and his administration percieve, wrongly or wrongly, to be in the best interests of the USA. All governments are capable of sincerely enacting initiatives bad for their countries*. Unless it turns out they are being paid by the FSB to do these things, then it is just official policy backed by an electoral mandate.
Jan 6th was extremely close to treason (in the sense of overthrowing the constitution), but he was cleared by Congress of any wrongdoing. Unfortuantely, a partisan process is the only system they have for prosecuting Presidents.
In some ways it might have been better had Trump won in 2020. Four years of the more moderated first-term Trump, surrounded by fewer loons, with the Putin/Ukraine problem landing on his desk, perhaps preferable to the vengeful, untrammelled current version.
* See: Brexit |
Also in Opposition the Republicans worked hard to block aid and arms to Ukraine. The policy switch was there and what Trump is doing now is a natural extension of it. personally I do not see how Ukraine wins this, they are slowly being bled to death (as are the Russians), it is pretty much stalemate with a few kms wons or lost periodically. Rather than keep feeding the meat grinder, It is time to come to terms, though that does recognise the Russian Fed as de facto winners. It is in the US psyche to side with winners and take advantage of the losers. Strategically China is number one enemey for the US now, hence why they want Russia on side and sidelined. | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 15:01 - Mar 5 with 1426 views | J2BLUE |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 08:02 - Mar 5 by JackNorthStand |
No.
Can be a lot of things and criticised but traitor is not right. Both believe they are acting in the best interests of their country.
Unless you believe conspiracy theories in which case you believe traitor is adequate in Trumps case.
Interestingly enough I saw an interview with someone yesterday on tv, saying this is a brutal ( for Ukraine at present ) but clever move by Trump for the USA ( securing the mineral deal ) and could secure ukraines long term future protection ( by having US interest there, without being part of NATO)
And of course I have heard interviews saying otherwise saying this is bad for all parties other than Russia.
The world is a bizzare place these last few years. |
Were they a Republican by any chance? They are the only one I have heard say that. |  |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 15:08 - Mar 5 with 1395 views | cressi |
I don't say traitor but a word starts with a s finishes with a m often referred to when we play that lot up the road. | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 15:19 - Mar 5 with 1378 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 15:08 - Mar 5 by cressi |
I don't say traitor but a word starts with a s finishes with a m often referred to when we play that lot up the road. |
A wretched hive of scum and villainy… | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:21 - Mar 5 with 1312 views | Churchman |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 13:34 - Mar 5 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Yeah, not convinced a handful of US security contractors is going to be much of a deterrent to Putin. Trump’s trust in Putin will come back to bite him (and unfortunately probably the rest of the west).
There are some parallels with how Stalin tried to align himself with Hitler, even going as far as providing fuel and training to the Germans in the Battle of Britain. Only for Hitler to turn on Stalin when he thought the moment was right. Once an expansionist dictator, always an expansionist dictator… |
They won’t be any deterrent. But that isn’t what it’s about. I reckon they’ve done a deal.
Down the line Ukraine will commit an ‘atrocity’ - maybe ukrainian prisoners dressed up in contractors uniforms, russian uniforms, civilian gear shot dead Gleiwitz style. ‘Look what these beasts have done! Russia must respond to protect itself and its best ally America and take over protection. Easy invasion. So a few British and French soldiers are killed. Who cares - they’ve done nothing in 40 years (Vance) so about time they got a kick in the ass.
Russia gets what it wants. US gets its bloody hands on the booty. Payment for Russia allowing this - a free hand in Europe. The Europeans talk a lot but don’t give a hoot about protecting themselves. Why not pass that over to Russia? Costs of defending the ungrateful loathsome, cowards (especially the U.K. - payback time!) reduced to nothing - America first. Russia gets its empire. Deal with them. Easy. One country, evil EU in the bin.
A rather dramatic, far fetched scenario, but it actually adds up if you consider the mentality of Trump and Putin. | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:33 - Mar 5 with 1287 views | J2BLUE |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:21 - Mar 5 by Churchman |
They won’t be any deterrent. But that isn’t what it’s about. I reckon they’ve done a deal.
Down the line Ukraine will commit an ‘atrocity’ - maybe ukrainian prisoners dressed up in contractors uniforms, russian uniforms, civilian gear shot dead Gleiwitz style. ‘Look what these beasts have done! Russia must respond to protect itself and its best ally America and take over protection. Easy invasion. So a few British and French soldiers are killed. Who cares - they’ve done nothing in 40 years (Vance) so about time they got a kick in the ass.
Russia gets what it wants. US gets its bloody hands on the booty. Payment for Russia allowing this - a free hand in Europe. The Europeans talk a lot but don’t give a hoot about protecting themselves. Why not pass that over to Russia? Costs of defending the ungrateful loathsome, cowards (especially the U.K. - payback time!) reduced to nothing - America first. Russia gets its empire. Deal with them. Easy. One country, evil EU in the bin.
A rather dramatic, far fetched scenario, but it actually adds up if you consider the mentality of Trump and Putin. |
Too complicated.
More like Putin will behave for four years while rapidly rearming and playing Trump like a violin. Then as soon as he is out of office Putin can attack Ukraine again. Even if Vance is president, apparently he has no love for Vance and might relish things falling apart for him. Not that Vance would care. He's on record as not caring what happens to Ukraine either way. | |
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:48 - Mar 5 with 1266 views | Churchman |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:33 - Mar 5 by J2BLUE |
Too complicated.
More like Putin will behave for four years while rapidly rearming and playing Trump like a violin. Then as soon as he is out of office Putin can attack Ukraine again. Even if Vance is president, apparently he has no love for Vance and might relish things falling apart for him. Not that Vance would care. He's on record as not caring what happens to Ukraine either way. |
You are probably right but age means Putin cannot wait 4 years.
Vance for a man like Putin is easy meat. There is nothing to him. He just an ignorant, hillbilly bully who actually cares about nothing or nobody but himself. His lies and public mumblings show that. | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 16:51 - Mar 5 with 1257 views | Xatticus |
Can you classify Trump as a traitor? I doubt it. Do I believe he is one? Yes.
Everything that is happening makes sense if you view it through the lens that he is Putin's puppet. | | | |
| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 13:12 - Mar 6 with 1004 views | Mullet |
This is possibly more in line with what you’re saying?
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| Could Trump and Farage be classified as traitors on 15:29 - Mar 6 with 866 views | jontysnut |
Saw a description of Farage the other day as looking like a c-nut's butler, while Vance looks like a pox doctor's clerk. |  | | |
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