| Migrant "crime crisis" 15:19 - Mar 11 with 14153 views | NeedhamChris |
Trying to focus on the data itself rather than the narrative - but as a pretty left-wing person in general I do find the data itself to be rather concerning.
Any data buffs around who can offer some reassurance that this is misguided somehow? Otherwise - feels like there's a need for a more open and honest conversation.
EDIT: would have been helpful to share the study (disclaimer: the narrative is biased and anti-immigration - but the data mentioned is what I'm more interested in)
https://www.migrationcentral.co.uk/p/over-100000-foreign-national-convictions [Post edited 11 Mar 15:26]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:39 - Mar 11 with 1631 views | StokieBlue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:37 - Mar 11 by lowhouseblue |
all the polls show that the vast majority of people in the uk think that current immigration levels are too high (3 million net migration in the last 4 years). but there's still a bit of the left - for some reason hugely disproportionately over-represented / vocal on here - for whom being pro-immigration is an absolute article of faith, and for them anything that questions immigration needs to be crushed. that's just how the site is. |
That has absolutely nothing to do with the debate being had.
The vast majority of those immigrants don't even come from the countries highlighted in the dubious article so it's also entirely irrelevant.
It is interesting to see who has upvoted a point which has nothing to do with the debate but is ideologically driven given your claims about ideologically driven arguments.
Looking forward to Bloots downvote.
SB [Post edited 11 Mar 21:44]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:45 - Mar 11 with 1550 views | lowhouseblue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:39 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
That has absolutely nothing to do with the debate being had.
The vast majority of those immigrants don't even come from the countries highlighted in the dubious article so it's also entirely irrelevant.
It is interesting to see who has upvoted a point which has nothing to do with the debate but is ideologically driven given your claims about ideologically driven arguments.
Looking forward to Bloots downvote.
SB [Post edited 11 Mar 21:44]
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i've posted that the article in the op doesn't prove anything. but in terms of the tone and character of the subsequent discussion, and the heat with which some people have posted, the quasi-religious belief in the wonders of immigration that some posters always display is entirely relevant. it is a view that is vocally expressed on twtd, but represents only a tiny minority in the wider population. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:55 - Mar 11 with 1514 views | StokieBlue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:45 - Mar 11 by lowhouseblue |
i've posted that the article in the op doesn't prove anything. but in terms of the tone and character of the subsequent discussion, and the heat with which some people have posted, the quasi-religious belief in the wonders of immigration that some posters always display is entirely relevant. it is a view that is vocally expressed on twtd, but represents only a tiny minority in the wider population. |
A large part of that is because immigration is demonised without evidence. It's blamed for so many things when in reality it's far from the major factor. This article, which you have cited doesn't prove anything, has been picked up by two national news sites (at least) and that just highlights that the actual evidence is irrelevant when someone else can be blamed for your woes. Debate is fine, debate with biased or incorrect evidence is not fine.
Stating that the narrative shouldn't be challenged because many people feel that way isn't correct. By that logic we shouldn't be challenging anything that Trump does because many people feel he is right even though evidence and expertise shows that he is almost entirely wrong with his current course of action.
SB | | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:59 - Mar 11 with 1498 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:32 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
You've made the assertion based on an article I've pointed out is hugely flawed, it's absolutely on you to prove it.
SB [Post edited 11 Mar 21:32]
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I have not made an assertion - I've suggested it's worth a conversation. Others clearly would rather it wasn't. This conversation always seems to be easier when it's discussing the crime of Brits abroad in places like Benidorm/Ibiza etc.
When you see statistics like "Albanians are 17x more likely to be arrested (201 per 1000 Albanians), compared to British people (12 per 1000) - that doesn't make you stop and even remotely consider that there might be something cultural to consider?
I don't think it's racist, bigoted etc at all to look at that data and think, hmmm...that's a bit of a statistical concern. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:07 - Mar 11 with 1453 views | jayessess |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:59 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
I have not made an assertion - I've suggested it's worth a conversation. Others clearly would rather it wasn't. This conversation always seems to be easier when it's discussing the crime of Brits abroad in places like Benidorm/Ibiza etc.
When you see statistics like "Albanians are 17x more likely to be arrested (201 per 1000 Albanians), compared to British people (12 per 1000) - that doesn't make you stop and even remotely consider that there might be something cultural to consider?
I don't think it's racist, bigoted etc at all to look at that data and think, hmmm...that's a bit of a statistical concern. |
Do you not think it would be a more enlightening (and honest!) conversation if you did in fact assert what you believe? |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:09 - Mar 11 with 1447 views | StokieBlue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:59 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
I have not made an assertion - I've suggested it's worth a conversation. Others clearly would rather it wasn't. This conversation always seems to be easier when it's discussing the crime of Brits abroad in places like Benidorm/Ibiza etc.
When you see statistics like "Albanians are 17x more likely to be arrested (201 per 1000 Albanians), compared to British people (12 per 1000) - that doesn't make you stop and even remotely consider that there might be something cultural to consider?
I don't think it's racist, bigoted etc at all to look at that data and think, hmmm...that's a bit of a statistical concern. |
You have made an assertion on the previous page. You've even once again said "look at the data" when you've conceded previously the data is flawed. I'm at the point where I don't really know what to say given you concede the data is flawed then keep pointing to it as evidence that should be considered.
Can you provide some data on the socio-economic conditions of those Albanians versus the average British person? Housing, job security, wealth, health etc? Without any of that it's not a fair comparison.
What are the rates of offending between British people with near identical socio-economic situations as those cited in the study?
I'm going to leave it there because for all your claims of wanting a nuanced debate your posts seem to stem from a position of bad-faith.
SB [Post edited 11 Mar 22:10]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:17 - Mar 11 with 1386 views | lowhouseblue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:55 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
A large part of that is because immigration is demonised without evidence. It's blamed for so many things when in reality it's far from the major factor. This article, which you have cited doesn't prove anything, has been picked up by two national news sites (at least) and that just highlights that the actual evidence is irrelevant when someone else can be blamed for your woes. Debate is fine, debate with biased or incorrect evidence is not fine.
Stating that the narrative shouldn't be challenged because many people feel that way isn't correct. By that logic we shouldn't be challenging anything that Trump does because many people feel he is right even though evidence and expertise shows that he is almost entirely wrong with his current course of action.
SB |
but in terms of actual evidence you can't ignore the fact that immigration is now at an utterly unprecedented level. it is happening at a time when we have a housing crisis. it's impossible to pretend that an additional 3 million people in 4 years doesn't contribute to that. that's the sort of experience that shapes a lot of public opinion on this.
this is an interesting website - % of social housing tenants born outside of the uk by locality. zoom into areas where more than 2/3rds of social housing tenants were born outside of the uk and understand why lots of the public object to what is happening.
https://migrationfacts.com/ | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:18 - Mar 11 with 1384 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:07 - Mar 11 by jayessess |
Do you not think it would be a more enlightening (and honest!) conversation if you did in fact assert what you believe? |
Overall - think migration has been of major benefit to the country for various reasons, including;
- It maintains our excellent university sector by attracting high volumes of international students
- underpins our NHS, as well as the care sector and many others
- has allowed us to benefit from a wide range of diverse perspectives and cultures
- economically - more money in than out
- sadly not the case now - but as EU members also gave us reciprocal rights and contributed to the sharing of experiences
However, I also believe that there is enough reason to be concerned that a lack of cultural integration is causing problems. I think we have a responsibility to make sure that we don't let political correctness get in the way of protecting the laws of this country - especially where children are concerned. I have my concerns about the growing crime rates - particularly around sexual offences and gang-related incidents.
There was a report the other week that there are a million non-English speakers in the UK - that to me is not healthy and shows that integration in some aspects hasn't worked.
It's still a benefit overall - but that'll soon be wiped out if we can't as a society have a grown-up and polite conversation about the challenges that come with it. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:27 - Mar 11 with 1336 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:59 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
I have not made an assertion - I've suggested it's worth a conversation. Others clearly would rather it wasn't. This conversation always seems to be easier when it's discussing the crime of Brits abroad in places like Benidorm/Ibiza etc.
When you see statistics like "Albanians are 17x more likely to be arrested (201 per 1000 Albanians), compared to British people (12 per 1000) - that doesn't make you stop and even remotely consider that there might be something cultural to consider?
I don't think it's racist, bigoted etc at all to look at that data and think, hmmm...that's a bit of a statistical concern. |
It could be cultural, although the crime rate in Albania is apparently slightly lower than the crime rate in the UK (if this is true/reliable - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country). So that suggests Albanians aren’t predisposed towards crime because of their nationality/culture.
This is the problem with using selective data for confirmation bias. There are going to be lots of factors influencing crime rates that aren’t considered in that article, because it’s clearly an ideology-driven piece rather than any meaningful/serious analysis. |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:38 - Mar 11 with 1295 views | jayessess |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:18 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Overall - think migration has been of major benefit to the country for various reasons, including;
- It maintains our excellent university sector by attracting high volumes of international students
- underpins our NHS, as well as the care sector and many others
- has allowed us to benefit from a wide range of diverse perspectives and cultures
- economically - more money in than out
- sadly not the case now - but as EU members also gave us reciprocal rights and contributed to the sharing of experiences
However, I also believe that there is enough reason to be concerned that a lack of cultural integration is causing problems. I think we have a responsibility to make sure that we don't let political correctness get in the way of protecting the laws of this country - especially where children are concerned. I have my concerns about the growing crime rates - particularly around sexual offences and gang-related incidents.
There was a report the other week that there are a million non-English speakers in the UK - that to me is not healthy and shows that integration in some aspects hasn't worked.
It's still a benefit overall - but that'll soon be wiped out if we can't as a society have a grown-up and polite conversation about the challenges that come with it. |
I see some version of this opinion of the pages of pretty much every newspaper in Britain, in the mouths of every other pundit and politician.
I don't know why people flap around pretending it's some kind of forbidden conversation. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:42 - Mar 11 with 1268 views | lowhouseblue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:27 - Mar 11 by Swansea_Blue |
It could be cultural, although the crime rate in Albania is apparently slightly lower than the crime rate in the UK (if this is true/reliable - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country). So that suggests Albanians aren’t predisposed towards crime because of their nationality/culture.
This is the problem with using selective data for confirmation bias. There are going to be lots of factors influencing crime rates that aren’t considered in that article, because it’s clearly an ideology-driven piece rather than any meaningful/serious analysis. |
but the people who travel are not going to be representative of their home population. they are likely to be disproportionately male, single and young - that's the demographic with the highest propensity to commit crime. also once here they are likely to lack the social, family and other networks which at home act to promote respect for the law. also since brexit migrants to the uk are much more likely yo be unskilled, without qualifications, and not economically active. it's not about comparing different countries to see which has a 'culture of criminality' - it's more about the demographics of the groups who are arriving. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:49 - Mar 11 with 1249 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:27 - Mar 11 by Swansea_Blue |
It could be cultural, although the crime rate in Albania is apparently slightly lower than the crime rate in the UK (if this is true/reliable - https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country). So that suggests Albanians aren’t predisposed towards crime because of their nationality/culture.
This is the problem with using selective data for confirmation bias. There are going to be lots of factors influencing crime rates that aren’t considered in that article, because it’s clearly an ideology-driven piece rather than any meaningful/serious analysis. |
It could be cultural - is literally where I'm at. Not that it IS cultural, but that it could well be (and that there is some data that might point that way) - and more study is required. However it's going to be difficult to get more accurate data to prove/disprove any link - if it can't even be discussed.
The double standards are pretty stark though - and it's not just me pushing a narrative.
When I make a comparison based on data - I get a response of "Can you provide some data on the socio-economic conditions of those Albanians versus the average British person? Housing, job security, wealth, health etc? Without any of that it's not a fair comparison" -
However the same poster then upvotes this post - which is based on a crime rate comparison is only effective if you assume that a) the laws are the same across both countries b) that they're equally enforced and c) that reporting standards are consistent across countries. Nor does it account for the differences between the demographic of the general population and the demographic of those travelling to the UK.
Fundamentally - what's the difference? Other than some are treating the view of 'migration is good' as if it's a scientific fact not up for debate. I don't think that's healthy. [Post edited 11 Mar 22:50]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 23:02 - Mar 11 with 1190 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:40 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
I agree with you that it's more nuanced, but from a statistical point of view.
I would expect socio-economic plays a part yes. I think there's also likely some cultural issues at play - if you accept that different cultures have different attitudes then I think for all the benefits of diversity - you also have to accept that some cultures might clash more with our legal rules than others.
Take sexual offences - 22x as likely for an Afghan national to commit a crime than Brits is more than a quirk - is it purely a co-incidence that *SOME* people from a country with minimal/no women's rights end up committing proportionally more offences here than others? [Post edited 11 Mar 18:43]
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Can you give a source for that 22x as likely datum?
Interestingly, that made me think of Andrew Tait. How would the data on crimes committed by English immigrants in Romania be altered by him if he is convicted? |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 23:07 - Mar 11 with 1173 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:18 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Overall - think migration has been of major benefit to the country for various reasons, including;
- It maintains our excellent university sector by attracting high volumes of international students
- underpins our NHS, as well as the care sector and many others
- has allowed us to benefit from a wide range of diverse perspectives and cultures
- economically - more money in than out
- sadly not the case now - but as EU members also gave us reciprocal rights and contributed to the sharing of experiences
However, I also believe that there is enough reason to be concerned that a lack of cultural integration is causing problems. I think we have a responsibility to make sure that we don't let political correctness get in the way of protecting the laws of this country - especially where children are concerned. I have my concerns about the growing crime rates - particularly around sexual offences and gang-related incidents.
There was a report the other week that there are a million non-English speakers in the UK - that to me is not healthy and shows that integration in some aspects hasn't worked.
It's still a benefit overall - but that'll soon be wiped out if we can't as a society have a grown-up and polite conversation about the challenges that come with it. |
As a matter of interest, do you think it should be a requirement of residency in other countries that English immigrants should be fluent in that country's native language? | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 23:11 - Mar 11 with 1149 views | StokieBlue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:49 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
It could be cultural - is literally where I'm at. Not that it IS cultural, but that it could well be (and that there is some data that might point that way) - and more study is required. However it's going to be difficult to get more accurate data to prove/disprove any link - if it can't even be discussed.
The double standards are pretty stark though - and it's not just me pushing a narrative.
When I make a comparison based on data - I get a response of "Can you provide some data on the socio-economic conditions of those Albanians versus the average British person? Housing, job security, wealth, health etc? Without any of that it's not a fair comparison" -
However the same poster then upvotes this post - which is based on a crime rate comparison is only effective if you assume that a) the laws are the same across both countries b) that they're equally enforced and c) that reporting standards are consistent across countries. Nor does it account for the differences between the demographic of the general population and the demographic of those travelling to the UK.
Fundamentally - what's the difference? Other than some are treating the view of 'migration is good' as if it's a scientific fact not up for debate. I don't think that's healthy. [Post edited 11 Mar 22:50]
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I upvoted the second paragraph which unfortunately undermines your entire point against me given that paragraph supports everything I have been saying.
You made a comparison based on data you had already agreed was flawed (repeatedly) and thus it's absolutely correct to ask for some actual unbiased data to support your point. You're perfectly able to see the flaws in the article Swansea posted so it's quite telling you don't seem to be able to do the same with the article supporting your view or to debate the points raised against it in such a manner.
The fact you think it's wrong that I would want some unbiased evidence is strange given you state you want an open and honest debate.
SB | | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:33 - Mar 12 with 942 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 23:07 - Mar 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
As a matter of interest, do you think it should be a requirement of residency in other countries that English immigrants should be fluent in that country's native language? |
Permanent residency and/or eligible to housing and other benefits? Yes - 100%. After a reasonable transition period.
My view of how it should work in the UK...
Personally - not immediately. I think there should be government funded English support for people for whom asylum or temporary residency has been granted (for both their benefit and wider society). I wouldn't be refusing asylum applications for genuine refugees based on this, no.
There needs to be more money spent on an integration package or similar, to help with integration. I can understand that's difficult if just left to it.
I would however be setting a timeframe for English to be learnt (paid for by government as said earlier). And maintaining it as a criteria that needs to be met for permanent residency. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:38 - Mar 12 with 914 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:59 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
I have not made an assertion - I've suggested it's worth a conversation. Others clearly would rather it wasn't. This conversation always seems to be easier when it's discussing the crime of Brits abroad in places like Benidorm/Ibiza etc.
When you see statistics like "Albanians are 17x more likely to be arrested (201 per 1000 Albanians), compared to British people (12 per 1000) - that doesn't make you stop and even remotely consider that there might be something cultural to consider?
I don't think it's racist, bigoted etc at all to look at that data and think, hmmm...that's a bit of a statistical concern. |
You might want to look into the issue of Albanians being trafficked into the UK by criminal gangs and forced to then pay them back for passage by being part of criminal enterprises. There was a documentary (on the BBC I think) a while ago about it. British people can also be vulnerable to exploitation but they are far less likely to be trafficked into criminal enterprises in the same way.
I hope you don't interpret this suggestion as bullying, I mean it's not like I'm following someone around the forum having pops at them out of nowhere while their dad is dying. |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:40 - Mar 12 with 892 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 21:55 - Mar 11 by StokieBlue |
A large part of that is because immigration is demonised without evidence. It's blamed for so many things when in reality it's far from the major factor. This article, which you have cited doesn't prove anything, has been picked up by two national news sites (at least) and that just highlights that the actual evidence is irrelevant when someone else can be blamed for your woes. Debate is fine, debate with biased or incorrect evidence is not fine.
Stating that the narrative shouldn't be challenged because many people feel that way isn't correct. By that logic we shouldn't be challenging anything that Trump does because many people feel he is right even though evidence and expertise shows that he is almost entirely wrong with his current course of action.
SB |
If you counter the demonisation of migrants, clearly that now constitutes having a quasi-religious belief that immigration is an entirely wonderful thing. Honestly, the intellectual dishonesty (and just regular dishonesty looking at some other posts on this thread) from some posters is quite staggering. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:55 - Mar 12 with 827 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:38 - Mar 12 by Herbivore |
You might want to look into the issue of Albanians being trafficked into the UK by criminal gangs and forced to then pay them back for passage by being part of criminal enterprises. There was a documentary (on the BBC I think) a while ago about it. British people can also be vulnerable to exploitation but they are far less likely to be trafficked into criminal enterprises in the same way.
I hope you don't interpret this suggestion as bullying, I mean it's not like I'm following someone around the forum having pops at them out of nowhere while their dad is dying. |
Yeah that's a fair point (your first paragraph) - and the more we discuss it the more balanced the argument will be. I will have a read.
Using him and his to Dad to make a point in an unrelated thread where he isn't mentioned though - that's pretty low, shame on you. Personally don't think anyone other than Flash should be bringing his Dad into things. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:58 - Mar 12 with 810 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:55 - Mar 12 by NeedhamChris |
Yeah that's a fair point (your first paragraph) - and the more we discuss it the more balanced the argument will be. I will have a read.
Using him and his to Dad to make a point in an unrelated thread where he isn't mentioned though - that's pretty low, shame on you. Personally don't think anyone other than Flash should be bringing his Dad into things. |
Just think it's important for people to know the type of person they are dealing with, though most seem to have worked it out.
Do some research as I've suggested, then next time you start a thread like this you'll be better placed to engage in informed debate. 👍 | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:58 - Mar 12 with 806 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:38 - Mar 12 by Herbivore |
You might want to look into the issue of Albanians being trafficked into the UK by criminal gangs and forced to then pay them back for passage by being part of criminal enterprises. There was a documentary (on the BBC I think) a while ago about it. British people can also be vulnerable to exploitation but they are far less likely to be trafficked into criminal enterprises in the same way.
I hope you don't interpret this suggestion as bullying, I mean it's not like I'm following someone around the forum having pops at them out of nowhere while their dad is dying. |
Also worth mentioning that up until now the conversation was robust but hadn't really got into the gutter - what a surprise that your immediate contribution is to do just that. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:00 - Mar 12 with 797 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 07:58 - Mar 12 by NeedhamChris |
Also worth mentioning that up until now the conversation was robust but hadn't really got into the gutter - what a surprise that your immediate contribution is to do just that. |
You directly accused other posters of being "forum bullies" and now you're getting upset that your actual bullying behaviour is getting called out? It's notable you've not denied your behaviour, because you can't. People see through you, mate. [Post edited 12 Mar 8:01]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:02 - Mar 12 with 774 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 22:49 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
It could be cultural - is literally where I'm at. Not that it IS cultural, but that it could well be (and that there is some data that might point that way) - and more study is required. However it's going to be difficult to get more accurate data to prove/disprove any link - if it can't even be discussed.
The double standards are pretty stark though - and it's not just me pushing a narrative.
When I make a comparison based on data - I get a response of "Can you provide some data on the socio-economic conditions of those Albanians versus the average British person? Housing, job security, wealth, health etc? Without any of that it's not a fair comparison" -
However the same poster then upvotes this post - which is based on a crime rate comparison is only effective if you assume that a) the laws are the same across both countries b) that they're equally enforced and c) that reporting standards are consistent across countries. Nor does it account for the differences between the demographic of the general population and the demographic of those travelling to the UK.
Fundamentally - what's the difference? Other than some are treating the view of 'migration is good' as if it's a scientific fact not up for debate. I don't think that's healthy. [Post edited 11 Mar 22:50]
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I don’t see this as people slavishly defending migration. It’s more about pushing back against the dishonest demonisation of immigrants that’s been happening for years (decades) in this country by the types of people who wrote the article in the OP. They’re being bankrolled by shadowy characters to promote anti-immigration propaganda that’s turning some people fearful and toxic. Next thing we know, we’ve left the EU at cost to our prosperity and security and we’ve had people lining up to attack immigration centres. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:06 - Mar 12 with 751 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:02 - Mar 12 by Swansea_Blue |
I don’t see this as people slavishly defending migration. It’s more about pushing back against the dishonest demonisation of immigrants that’s been happening for years (decades) in this country by the types of people who wrote the article in the OP. They’re being bankrolled by shadowy characters to promote anti-immigration propaganda that’s turning some people fearful and toxic. Next thing we know, we’ve left the EU at cost to our prosperity and security and we’ve had people lining up to attack immigration centres. |
Not to mention the riots following the Southport murders. The constant drip feeding of quite strong anti-immigration rhetoric is toxic, if people genuinely want a serious and grown up debate about immigration, parroting that stuff isn't the way to start one. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:44 - Mar 12 with 684 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 08:06 - Mar 12 by Herbivore |
Not to mention the riots following the Southport murders. The constant drip feeding of quite strong anti-immigration rhetoric is toxic, if people genuinely want a serious and grown up debate about immigration, parroting that stuff isn't the way to start one. |
Having worked with a high proportion of immigrants in universities and before that worked widely overseas, it annoys the hell out of me that we let chancers like Farage and these supposed ‘think tanks’ dictate the conversation. I’ve always found immigrants to be people just like us. Some are good, some a pain in the arse, some funny, some miserable, some charitable some evil. Nationality doesn’t determine someone’s character. | |
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