| Migrant "crime crisis" 15:19 - Mar 11 with 14729 views | NeedhamChris |
Trying to focus on the data itself rather than the narrative - but as a pretty left-wing person in general I do find the data itself to be rather concerning.
Any data buffs around who can offer some reassurance that this is misguided somehow? Otherwise - feels like there's a need for a more open and honest conversation.
EDIT: would have been helpful to share the study (disclaimer: the narrative is biased and anti-immigration - but the data mentioned is what I'm more interested in)
https://www.migrationcentral.co.uk/p/over-100000-foreign-national-convictions [Post edited 11 Mar 15:26]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:51 - Mar 11 with 1661 views | J2BLUE |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:48 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Benters has already had two references - I don't think I've ever seen anything directly racist from him yet his well-known concerns mean he's told he should be in the BNP.
It happens - it shouldn't - and it pushes people to the parties we then complain about. |
To be fair, I think Benters enjoys being the pantomime villain. |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:51 - Mar 11 with 1663 views | NeedhamChris |
It'd be helpful if Full Fact (or similar) would look at it - they're very quick to get involved in some issues but not sure how that comes about.
and thanks - hadn't found that previously. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:08 - Mar 11 with 1576 views | positivity |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:51 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
To be fair, I think Benters enjoys being the pantomime villain. |
and no-one linked benters to the bnp either... | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:09 - Mar 11 with 1575 views | vapour_trail |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:41 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
I was just highlighting the part of the post I was replying to. |
It was giving it credibility, that’s more than just highlighting. |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:12 - Mar 11 with 1550 views | J2BLUE |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:09 - Mar 11 by vapour_trail |
It was giving it credibility, that’s more than just highlighting. |
I think he has a point.
You obviously disagree. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:24 - Mar 11 with 1502 views | Herbivore |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:12 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
I think he has a point.
You obviously disagree. |
It's an easy line that bad faith actors use, imo. I don't think you are one of those but by parroting that line, it really doesn't help. |  |
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| The poster claiming that…. on 17:45 - Mar 11 with 1458 views | Bloots |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:45 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
There is certainly an element of it. It happened with Brexit and it happens at every election. |
….it doesn’t happen got banned from this forum for calling me racist.
This place is remarkable sometimes. |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:56 - Mar 11 with 1420 views | DJR |
Another New Anti-Immigration Pressure Group is Launched from Tufton Street and Met with Reams of Media Coverage
https://bylinetimes.com/2024/02/15/another-new-anti-immigration-pressure-group-i
Leaving aside the dubiousness of the figures in the article in the OP, sadly it's rather difficult to have a sensible debate on immigration if most of the focus is on people crossing the channel or committing crimes, given this is not the case for the vast majority of perfectly legal migrants.
I might add that my mother-in-law's carers are all recent arrivals to the UK but if they weren't here, she and many where she lives wouldn't be getting care. |  | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:05 - Mar 11 with 1375 views | vapour_trail |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 17:56 - Mar 11 by DJR |
Another New Anti-Immigration Pressure Group is Launched from Tufton Street and Met with Reams of Media Coverage
https://bylinetimes.com/2024/02/15/another-new-anti-immigration-pressure-group-i
Leaving aside the dubiousness of the figures in the article in the OP, sadly it's rather difficult to have a sensible debate on immigration if most of the focus is on people crossing the channel or committing crimes, given this is not the case for the vast majority of perfectly legal migrants.
I might add that my mother-in-law's carers are all recent arrivals to the UK but if they weren't here, she and many where she lives wouldn't be getting care. |
The OP linked content is ideologically driven. By the people behind the website and quite possibly the poster himself who appeared to approach this unsolicited with an agenda.
Of course we have immigrants providing services to people like your mum. And of course we have immigrants committing crimes. Why would it be any different to the existing population.
I do think it would be helpful to do some proper planning and set targets on where and when we need people to support our population and then how we’re going to manage logistics around that. And then publish it. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:08 - Mar 11 with 1355 views | bsw72 |
Any article spewing out data with no reference or citations to data sources and any filters applied is not worth the effort to analyze.
I scrolled through and could not see where any of the data was from or how it was created - therefore my assumption is that it is made up nonsense to incite the gullible. |  | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:15 - Mar 11 with 1319 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:05 - Mar 11 by vapour_trail |
The OP linked content is ideologically driven. By the people behind the website and quite possibly the poster himself who appeared to approach this unsolicited with an agenda.
Of course we have immigrants providing services to people like your mum. And of course we have immigrants committing crimes. Why would it be any different to the existing population.
I do think it would be helpful to do some proper planning and set targets on where and when we need people to support our population and then how we’re going to manage logistics around that. And then publish it. |
Can I ask you a really basic question then..
Do you think people from all countries are as likely to commit crimes as each other? | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:16 - Mar 11 with 1307 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:15 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Can I ask you a really basic question then..
Do you think people from all countries are as likely to commit crimes as each other? |
Your "left wing person in general" is showing. |  | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:18 - Mar 11 with 1278 views | Trequartista |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:08 - Mar 11 by PassionNotAnger |
Home - Centre for Migration Control
The Centre for Migration Control is a think tank committed to controlling and dramatically reducing migration to Britain.
Hmm - let's not pretend the data is worth looking at or the conversation is worth having.
No doubt connected to BNP/UKIP/REFORM or whatever Farage and the other numpties are calling themselves now |
Data obtained from the Ministry of Justice, obtained under freedom of information laws by Centre for Migration Control.
Unless there is reason to dispute the source, I don't think we should ignore it? |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:19 - Mar 11 with 1271 views | J2BLUE |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:16 - Mar 11 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Your "left wing person in general" is showing. |
What does that even mean? Is part of being left wing sticking your head in the sand about any POTENTIAL issues? | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:23 - Mar 11 with 1247 views | PassionNotAnger |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:18 - Mar 11 by Trequartista |
Data obtained from the Ministry of Justice, obtained under freedom of information laws by Centre for Migration Control.
Unless there is reason to dispute the source, I don't think we should ignore it? |
I must have missed that reference on the article, where was it? | | | |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:25 - Mar 11 with 1228 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:16 - Mar 11 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Your "left wing person in general" is showing. |
You're rather making the point for me.
Will you answer the question? | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:26 - Mar 11 with 1224 views | vapour_trail |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:15 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Can I ask you a really basic question then..
Do you think people from all countries are as likely to commit crimes as each other? |
I think that’s far too broad a question.
Have you a specific crime in mind?
I would expect socio economic factors to be at play, that’s fcking obvious as it is domestically. I’ve no idea what prevalence of individual criminal offences looks like for immigrants compared to existing population.
What’s your take? | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:26 - Mar 11 with 1217 views | Trequartista |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:23 - Mar 11 by PassionNotAnger |
I must have missed that reference on the article, where was it? |
You didn't miss it, I found it on the daily express website.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/10/foreigners-commit-up-to-quarter-of-s
It appears the Government and Opposition have both commented on it without disputing it.
(Reading it again, its possible the Express have framed that to make the Government response look like a response to these figures when it may be a response to Cooper's new initiative, but even so)
I'm hoping we are all still fact-based on here even if the facts are uncomfortable. [Post edited 11 Mar 18:29]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:34 - Mar 11 with 1157 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:26 - Mar 11 by Trequartista |
You didn't miss it, I found it on the daily express website.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/10/foreigners-commit-up-to-quarter-of-s
It appears the Government and Opposition have both commented on it without disputing it.
(Reading it again, its possible the Express have framed that to make the Government response look like a response to these figures when it may be a response to Cooper's new initiative, but even so)
I'm hoping we are all still fact-based on here even if the facts are uncomfortable. [Post edited 11 Mar 18:29]
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Thanks for sharing that. I think it's then fair to engage with the data - and not dismiss it out of hand. Seems a fairly safe premise that the Govt would have been quick to point out this was rubbish data - if it was - although I think the response you mention is to something broader (new Home Office plans). They also don't counter that this data is from the Police National Computer / FOI etc - so no one in the know is questioning the legitimacy of this data.
As I said in my OP - I don't support the narrative but the data itself is concerning - comfortable or not. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:40 - Mar 11 with 1121 views | NeedhamChris |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:26 - Mar 11 by vapour_trail |
I think that’s far too broad a question.
Have you a specific crime in mind?
I would expect socio economic factors to be at play, that’s fcking obvious as it is domestically. I’ve no idea what prevalence of individual criminal offences looks like for immigrants compared to existing population.
What’s your take? |
I agree with you that it's more nuanced, but from a statistical point of view.
I would expect socio-economic plays a part yes. I think there's also likely some cultural issues at play - if you accept that different cultures have different attitudes then I think for all the benefits of diversity - you also have to accept that some cultures might clash more with our legal rules than others.
Take sexual offences - 22x as likely for an Afghan national to commit a crime than Brits is more than a quirk - is it purely a co-incidence that *SOME* people from a country with minimal/no women's rights end up committing proportionally more offences here than others? [Post edited 11 Mar 18:43]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:44 - Mar 11 with 1090 views | Trequartista |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:34 - Mar 11 by NeedhamChris |
Thanks for sharing that. I think it's then fair to engage with the data - and not dismiss it out of hand. Seems a fairly safe premise that the Govt would have been quick to point out this was rubbish data - if it was - although I think the response you mention is to something broader (new Home Office plans). They also don't counter that this data is from the Police National Computer / FOI etc - so no one in the know is questioning the legitimacy of this data.
As I said in my OP - I don't support the narrative but the data itself is concerning - comfortable or not. |
I don't really understand why the first reaction of people is to dismiss things like this because of their political dogma rather than first try and establish the authenticity of the facts. It's like "oh no, this can't be right, only racists would say this"
We're all citizens, not politicians. I just googled this organisation, pressed the News tab, and ordered by date, and found further info. Really not difficult.
The press is not much better. The sites google found are all right-leaning. If you only read the Guardian and the Independent you'd be in your utopian bubble none the wiser. [Post edited 11 Mar 18:46]
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 19:10 - Mar 11 with 990 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 16:51 - Mar 11 by J2BLUE |
To be fair, I think Benters enjoys being the pantomime villain. |
Oh no he doesn't...... etc |  |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 19:24 - Mar 11 with 957 views | vapour_trail |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:44 - Mar 11 by Trequartista |
I don't really understand why the first reaction of people is to dismiss things like this because of their political dogma rather than first try and establish the authenticity of the facts. It's like "oh no, this can't be right, only racists would say this"
We're all citizens, not politicians. I just googled this organisation, pressed the News tab, and ordered by date, and found further info. Really not difficult.
The press is not much better. The sites google found are all right-leaning. If you only read the Guardian and the Independent you'd be in your utopian bubble none the wiser. [Post edited 11 Mar 18:46]
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You’ve come what j2 has done and just made this up agin
oh no, this can't be right, only racists would say this
There’s as many people say this as say all foreigners are racists and should be shot on entry to our Kingdom. | |
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| Migrant "crime crisis" on 19:29 - Mar 11 with 935 views | BlueBadger |
| Migrant "crime crisis" on 18:16 - Mar 11 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
Your "left wing person in general" is showing. |
As much as the OP is falling for far right hot takes, what does this mean? |  |
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