| Starmer needs to grow a pair. 09:09 - Mar 28 with 2351 views | OldFart71 |
Whilst Macron is saying they are looking at sanctions to impose on the US in retaliation of their 25% tariff on cars and parts Starmer and his bunch of merry women and men are pussy footing around still maintaining the States are our Special Relations Partner. It's about time we stopped being at the beck and call of the US or are we the 52nd State with Canada being the 51st. I have been to the States on many occasions but have no plans to return there as my opinion of the leaders and to some extent, for voting a buffoon like Trump in, the people and have lowered my esteem of the States considerably. Although I wrongly voted for coming out of the EU I do believe there is now a serious case for rejoining. The world waited whilst Hitler trampled through many Countries and killed millions. Stealing everything as he went. It appears that Trump and Putin have similar ambitions.Both needs to be stopped. |  | | |  |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 09:26 - Mar 28 with 2264 views | baxterbasics |
We've long been in the position of 'playing both sides' when it comes to relationships with the US and EU, even when we were a member. Besides, keeping cards close to his chest might be the best strat for us at the moment. |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 09:34 - Mar 28 with 2214 views | JammyDodgerrr |
Taking a measured approach and choosing when, and how, to fight back with Trump is much more important for us than it is some other countries. I believe we're playing it right at the moment. |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 09:39 - Mar 28 with 2193 views | baxterbasics |
Also need to remember, as much as everyone might want to see us "stick it to Trump" - Starmers job is to do what's best for the UK. Which involves more subtle diplomacy.
Actual international relations isn't like Love Actually where PM Hugh Grant lays into President Billy Bob Thornton and everyone cheers. | |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 09:50 - Mar 28 with 2159 views | _clive_baker_ |
Its far too simplistic to say grow a pair. I'm no Starmer super fan by any stretch but its a very complex situation to navigate to morality vs. the economic benefit of keeping the worlds largest single market accessible to British export. |  | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:05 - Mar 28 with 2080 views | bsw72 |
Macron can afford to make these statements as he has the support of the EU behind him.
As a direct result of brexit, Starmer has to be far more careful as we no longer have the security and support that being part of the 2nd most powerful economic community would have afforded us. Starmer has to try and find the delicate balance between the EU, USA and other economic powers. |  | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:07 - Mar 28 with 2057 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:05 - Mar 28 by bsw72 |
Macron can afford to make these statements as he has the support of the EU behind him.
As a direct result of brexit, Starmer has to be far more careful as we no longer have the security and support that being part of the 2nd most powerful economic community would have afforded us. Starmer has to try and find the delicate balance between the EU, USA and other economic powers. |
True to agree, although as Baxter points out we’ve always tread a careful path between the EU and USA |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:47 - Mar 28 with 1899 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s always retired people that are so eager to wreck our economy (see also BREXIT). Going toe to toe with the largest, richest economy in the world is just daft. It’s our largest single country trading partner, and one of the few where we have a trade surplus.
Doubly daft given we still trade certain commodities with Russia, and authoritarian states like Saudi. People are seemingly really hurt by tariffs but happy to pivot to China who actually forcibly disappear and detain their Muslim minority, as well as beating up students in HK etc. Games gone… | | | |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:52 - Mar 28 with 1864 views | bluejacko |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:05 - Mar 28 by bsw72 |
Macron can afford to make these statements as he has the support of the EU behind him.
As a direct result of brexit, Starmer has to be far more careful as we no longer have the security and support that being part of the 2nd most powerful economic community would have afforded us. Starmer has to try and find the delicate balance between the EU, USA and other economic powers. |
Has Macron the authority to make these statements? Any sanctions etc have got to come from Brussels haven’t they? | | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 12:45 - Mar 28 with 1701 views | bsw72 |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:16 - Mar 28 by Lord_Lucan |
The support of the EU? 
Trump hates The EU, any mention of them winds him up.
Brexit may very well be a massive boost here. Although I am a reluctant remainer I would absolutely piss my pants if EU got clobbered and we came away with a decent trade deal**
**and I would say that could be a possibility. [Post edited 28 Mar 10:16]
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Eh? My point was that Macron can make those statements with the comfort of knowing he is already part of the EU. Nothing to do with Trumps view of it.
It may well play in our favour but the reason why Starmer can’t call out Trump or the EU leadership is because we have very few formal trade agreements to fall back on that can compete with either of these.
We are in a position of relative weakness. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:46]
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 13:14 - Mar 28 with 1569 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 13:06 - Mar 28 by J2BLUE |
Our future defence is tied in with Europe. I'd rather no one was clobbered. |
Defence has got little to do with trade deals, that's all pretty irrelevant.
I do agree though that there seems to be a shifting of power and influence but whatever the detractors might say, UK is still a big dog and EU will be crawling to us, not the other way around. |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 13:19 - Mar 28 with 1516 views | MattinLondon |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 12:45 - Mar 28 by bsw72 |
Eh? My point was that Macron can make those statements with the comfort of knowing he is already part of the EU. Nothing to do with Trumps view of it.
It may well play in our favour but the reason why Starmer can’t call out Trump or the EU leadership is because we have very few formal trade agreements to fall back on that can compete with either of these.
We are in a position of relative weakness. [Post edited 28 Mar 12:46]
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Another possibility being that Canada and the EU become much closer and forge stronger ties - guess that will really annoy Trump. Especially more so if Mark Carney becomes the new Canadian PM. |  | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 13:23 - Mar 28 with 1495 views | J2BLUE |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 13:14 - Mar 28 by Lord_Lucan |
Defence has got little to do with trade deals, that's all pretty irrelevant.
I do agree though that there seems to be a shifting of power and influence but whatever the detractors might say, UK is still a big dog and EU will be crawling to us, not the other way around. |
It's all linked. If France get hit then their people will pay one way or another. Less taxes, less spending. |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 14:33 - Mar 28 with 1403 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 10:47 - Mar 28 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s always retired people that are so eager to wreck our economy (see also BREXIT). Going toe to toe with the largest, richest economy in the world is just daft. It’s our largest single country trading partner, and one of the few where we have a trade surplus.
Doubly daft given we still trade certain commodities with Russia, and authoritarian states like Saudi. People are seemingly really hurt by tariffs but happy to pivot to China who actually forcibly disappear and detain their Muslim minority, as well as beating up students in HK etc. Games gone… |
"It’s always retired people that are so eager to wreck our economy (see also BREXIT)."
You know I hate generalisations - and never mind "senior moments" by your elders, have you forgotten Truss already?! |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 15:22 - Mar 28 with 1322 views | Churchman |
See post on other thread re Trumps’s shake down of Ukraine.
Regarding your OP I certainly believe we will have to get off the fence sooner rather than later. I hope that Starmer isn’t wasting too much time on the embarrassing ‘special relationship’ nonsense, which never existed beyond the US stripping this country of everything it could get its hands on from lend-lease onwards.
If action is happening behind the scenes great, but it feels like KS is desperately hoping it’ll go alright and Trump will pick on others. He won’t. We are first in the firing line and hated. He’s already slapping on tariffs and you watch the screws tighten next month.
We need to move away from the US as fast as possible and come to a decent trading position with the EU and publicly back Canada and Japan, who Trump also has in the gunsight.
There is elements of Baldwin and Chamberlain about Starmer in that he looks indecisive and weak to me, let alone how it must look to dictators like Putin and Trump who definitely do need facing down. So after what I thought was necessary Uriah Heep style grovelling to test the water, yes he needs to grow a pair. I am probably completely misreading him - I hope so!
Like you I’ve been to the US a good few times. I love the country and even if the beer is rubbish, I’ve always liked the people. But since the worst of them are running it now, probably for many years to come, I won’t be going back sadly. |  | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 15:27 - Mar 28 with 1308 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 15:22 - Mar 28 by Churchman |
See post on other thread re Trumps’s shake down of Ukraine.
Regarding your OP I certainly believe we will have to get off the fence sooner rather than later. I hope that Starmer isn’t wasting too much time on the embarrassing ‘special relationship’ nonsense, which never existed beyond the US stripping this country of everything it could get its hands on from lend-lease onwards.
If action is happening behind the scenes great, but it feels like KS is desperately hoping it’ll go alright and Trump will pick on others. He won’t. We are first in the firing line and hated. He’s already slapping on tariffs and you watch the screws tighten next month.
We need to move away from the US as fast as possible and come to a decent trading position with the EU and publicly back Canada and Japan, who Trump also has in the gunsight.
There is elements of Baldwin and Chamberlain about Starmer in that he looks indecisive and weak to me, let alone how it must look to dictators like Putin and Trump who definitely do need facing down. So after what I thought was necessary Uriah Heep style grovelling to test the water, yes he needs to grow a pair. I am probably completely misreading him - I hope so!
Like you I’ve been to the US a good few times. I love the country and even if the beer is rubbish, I’ve always liked the people. But since the worst of them are running it now, probably for many years to come, I won’t be going back sadly. |
People massively underestimate the Commonwealth.
We need to get William and Kate on the road. | |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 16:35 - Mar 28 with 1244 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Following your RR tirade with this and in the process getting a uppie from DaveU is not as good a look as you think it is. |  |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 18:17 - Mar 28 with 1179 views | redrickstuhaart |
I get the diplomacy and national interest point. And he would soon be lambasted by those that say he should dooooo something, if it lands us with big trump tariffs.
However, there is a point at which both friends and rivals need to know that we will stand square behind a point of principle rather than just continually appeasing.
Another threat to Greenland from a supposedly democratic western nation. He should be standing up with the rest of the world and making it clear that this is not acceptable. | | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 18:55 - Mar 28 with 1156 views | Churchman |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 18:17 - Mar 28 by redrickstuhaart |
I get the diplomacy and national interest point. And he would soon be lambasted by those that say he should dooooo something, if it lands us with big trump tariffs.
However, there is a point at which both friends and rivals need to know that we will stand square behind a point of principle rather than just continually appeasing.
Another threat to Greenland from a supposedly democratic western nation. He should be standing up with the rest of the world and making it clear that this is not acceptable. |
We are going to be hit with the biggest of tariffs anyway, because he despises what he perceives as weakness.
So far car parts and cars and all steel - massive hit slapped on. He doesn’t care because he knows he can. There’s no real reason but not to worry, make one up. Let’s try VAT which he clearly doesn’t understand. That’ll do.
Greenland? We should be making more noise about it and offering support to Greenland and Denmark. Not hiding, which is essentially what we are doing with them and Canada. | | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 19:03 - Mar 28 with 1145 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 18:55 - Mar 28 by Churchman |
We are going to be hit with the biggest of tariffs anyway, because he despises what he perceives as weakness.
So far car parts and cars and all steel - massive hit slapped on. He doesn’t care because he knows he can. There’s no real reason but not to worry, make one up. Let’s try VAT which he clearly doesn’t understand. That’ll do.
Greenland? We should be making more noise about it and offering support to Greenland and Denmark. Not hiding, which is essentially what we are doing with them and Canada. |
When will the American public wake the F up?
There are people being disappeared from their streets by masked officers of the state. Without evidence, for expressing views in accordance with the first amendment. | | | |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 19:04 - Mar 28 with 1142 views | Ryorry |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 19:03 - Mar 28 by redrickstuhaart |
When will the American public wake the F up?
There are people being disappeared from their streets by masked officers of the state. Without evidence, for expressing views in accordance with the first amendment. |
Not seen/heard that, any link/s pls? Tia. | |
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| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 08:54 - Mar 29 with 823 views | DJR |
| Starmer needs to grow a pair. on 19:20 - Mar 28 by Eireannach_gorm |
Trump doesn't hate the EU, Vance does. |
Maybe it's his Scotch-Irish (or Ulster Scots) heritage subconsciously seeping through, as the vast majority of Unionists in the north also hate the EU. [Post edited 29 Mar 8:55]
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