| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? 07:45 - Mar 31 with 2741 views | Chrisd |
Controversial I know, but I do believe Luton Town did a better job than us in trying to avoid relegation last season. Thoughts?
Incredibly, the 3 bottom sides need another 23pts to match the combined total of the 3 relegated sides from last season, which is incredible to think about it? Just serves to highlight how poor Southampton, Leicester and ourselves have been. I can’t really see any of those sides winning another game this season. |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:00 - Mar 31 with 2642 views | Mark |
Luton ended last season on 26 points, the same as Wolves have now, and 9 points more than we and Leicester have now.
Leicester have home matches against us and Southampton to come, so unfortunately I can see them winning again this season. |  | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:09 - Mar 31 with 2609 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
If you look at it purely statistically, yes. But if you look at the bigger picture (which will include how both do the following season and years to come) it may be a bit irrelevant. Luton ultimately didn't stay up... and their style of football now sees them second from bottom in the Champ. If we were to go down but do well next season (possibly even come straight back up) then whether Luton last season did a better job than us or not will be forgotten and, as I say, irrelevant. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:11 - Mar 31 with 2594 views | Herbivore |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:00 - Mar 31 by Mark |
Luton ended last season on 26 points, the same as Wolves have now, and 9 points more than we and Leicester have now.
Leicester have home matches against us and Southampton to come, so unfortunately I can see them winning again this season. |
Have you seen Leicester's home form?
I'm not sure there's much value in making a comparison at this stage as the season isn't over yet and just assuming we won't win another game isn't really a useful basis for drawing any conclusions. We may well end up with fewer points than Luton did but I doubt we'll be at risk of relegation to League 1 next season so it depends on what metric you use for doing a better job as clearly Luton didn't use promotion as a platform for more sustained success.
There's also other contextual factors to consider. Overall, I think it's a stronger league again this season. The sides they were competing with at the bottom have all strengthened and look better this year. The Barkley signing was huge for them in adding some Prem quality and experience for no money but players like that don't come up often. I guess we've tried similar with Phillips on loan and he's not had the same kind of impact.
Then there's the injuries, I don't recall Luton having to constantly cope with having 4 or 5 players out injured at any one time. We've had Axel missing for the best part of half a season, same with Burns, Ogbene for even longer than that, Hirst and Broadhead out for months at the start, Chaplin and Szmodics also missing large chunks of the season as well, Walton has had a significant injury, and Greaves was out for several weeks at one point too. We've then had the more usual 2-4 week absences of others on top of all those long term injuries. When you already have the weakest squad (on paper) in the league, it's not easy to cope with that and it's also made it very difficult to get any kind of cohesion. We'd have had a better chance of coming out on the right side of the fine margins in a few more games with a less disrupted squad and we'd be much more in touch with Wolves if that had been the case.
So basically, it's too early to answer for sure and some context is needed too. [Post edited 31 Mar 8:13]
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:26 - Mar 31 with 2473 views | Churchman |
I don’t agree. I don’t know why Luton keep being waved around. They got promoted playing high energy Wimbledon/Cambridge Utd in your face hoofball. They ambushed a few PL clubs at that cesspit of a ground, but their way was never going to succeed and they’re paying the price now.
I am surprised that Southampton and Leicester have been so poor, given only one season out after a long stretch in the PL, but not ourselves. I thought we might be closer, but I never factored just how strong the PL has become.
Teams like Forest were tipped to struggle. They haven’t. Palace started badly through injury but they’re way stronger and that goes for all bar Wolves. The table doesn’t lie.
I watched Sheffield U getting mashed week in week out last season. Better than us? I think not. Neither were Luton. Burnley - never watched them as they were and are dull. Leeds, who are weaker this season are competing with those two and that’s the measure.
ITFC have tried to bridge the gap of Forest Green to Liverpool and co in two years. It failed and the only stat that matters is finishing above the bottom three.
The club rightly invested in younger players, mostly, and that’ll stand it in good stead. Mistakes? The club including the manager and players have made loads. But they’ve given it a go. They’ve tried and not caved as I saw say Lyall/McGiven’s team do. Disappointing though it is, I can live with that. |  | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:47 - Mar 31 with 2371 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
On a pure points basis I suppose so.
But I think we are a better team tbh. Luton played a very agricultural style of football and think that may be one of the reasons they have struggled this season, teams have worked out how to stop them. As mentioned above I think the league is far stronger this year as well. Lots of teams taken a jump this year. |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:48 - Mar 31 with 2375 views | muccletonjoe |
We were nowhere near ready for the Premier league. Unfortunately that has shown in performances all season. I don't think we will be bouncing back up again next season either. A big re-build needed, with emphasis on a solid defence and not playing 4 attacking players against some of the best players in Europe. |  | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 09:17 - Mar 31 with 2253 views | franz_tyson |
Luton have made a better fist of it than us.... but,hopefully, we've gone into this season with one eye open and planning ahead for relegation.
We have a lot of players - Delap aside - who aren't ready for PL and could benefit with us for another year in the Championship. Here's hoping anyway.
With Luton..... wasn't it always about how much longer they could keep this going? | | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 09:25 - Mar 31 with 2207 views | bsw72 |
I have no idea why there is this sudden desire to "compare" this season's bottom 3 to previous - it proves nothing in isolation.
"Incredibly, the 3 bottom sides need another 23pts to match the combined total of the 3 relegated sides from last season, which is incredible to think about it? Just serves to highlight how poor Southampton, Leicester and ourselves have been. I can’t really see any of those sides winning another game this season."
Errr, no it doesn't.
The points distribution in the Premier League has evolved since inception, with top teams consistently accumulating higher points totals. This trend is down to a number of factors primarily driven by SkyTV money and foreign investment, providing increased financial investment in talent and greater squad depth. As a result, clubs like Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal are now often finishing seasons with 80+ points, raising the bar for success in the league. This is now cascading down beyond the "top" teams but to the established teams as they accumulate more money etc.
This increased in points among the established teams creates a much bigger challenge for newly promoted sides. Historically, around 40 points has been considered the benchmark for safety from relegation. However, as the established teams perform better, the points required to avoid relegation have also risen, with some teams relegated in recent seasons despite reaching totals of 35-40 points. This trend puts additional pressure on newly promoted teams, who must adapt quickly and often invest wisely to secure their place in the Premier League. The ability to invest to enable them to compete has now been stopped, through the financial fair plays rules - ironic really.
Overall, while the Premier League remains highly competitive for the established teams, the widening gap between these teams and the promoted sides makes it increasingly difficult to establish themselves and avoid relegation.
Next season the PL will have the same top 17 teams for the 3rd year on the trot - that has *never* happened before, this means that these teams will have had full PL money for those years.
As for this season's bottom 3 - it's not about being "poorer" than previous relegated teams, it's about not being able to compete on an even playing field, with even the sides that occupy the bottom 10-17 places . . . |  | | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 09:43 - Mar 31 with 2119 views | TractorJack |
Maybe I'm being biased but I think the league is stronger this year. The top 4 maybe not but the rest of the league all seem to have improved or at least have enough squad strength to not have any major issues (thinking Everton, West Ham) |  | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 09:47 - Mar 31 with 2074 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 09:43 - Mar 31 by TractorJack |
Maybe I'm being biased but I think the league is stronger this year. The top 4 maybe not but the rest of the league all seem to have improved or at least have enough squad strength to not have any major issues (thinking Everton, West Ham) |
Think that’s right and plenty of people have said that. It’ll be even stronger next year with the 3 promoted clubs this year going down, and the rest capable of strengthening further to ensure the same result next season.
To answer the original question - don’t think one would have done better than the other - both relegated. I’d put a lot of money on us dealing with relegation significantly better than Luton did! | | | |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 10:12 - Mar 31 with 1971 views | Chrisd |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 08:47 - Mar 31 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
On a pure points basis I suppose so.
But I think we are a better team tbh. Luton played a very agricultural style of football and think that may be one of the reasons they have struggled this season, teams have worked out how to stop them. As mentioned above I think the league is far stronger this year as well. Lots of teams taken a jump this year. |
That’s a fair comment, but there’s us trying to a brand of passing football against better footballing sides with better players. Perhaps we should have tried to mix things up more? We are far too predictable and slow with our passing in comparison to those other sides that play that same brand of football in the EPL. | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 10:54 - Mar 31 with 1866 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 10:12 - Mar 31 by Chrisd |
That’s a fair comment, but there’s us trying to a brand of passing football against better footballing sides with better players. Perhaps we should have tried to mix things up more? We are far too predictable and slow with our passing in comparison to those other sides that play that same brand of football in the EPL. |
I think if you look at the numbers we do mix it up far more than Mckenna gets credit for. We are in no way trying to play out from the back on every occasion. We have been more than happy to go long to Delap and he has been immense at bringing the ball down in these situations.
I also think we have played the ball out from the back quite well, I'm not sure that has been a real issue for us, we just aren't a ruthless team at either end of the pitch but I think the style of football has actually been pretty good. | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 11:55 - Mar 31 with 1743 views | Herbivore |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 10:12 - Mar 31 by Chrisd |
That’s a fair comment, but there’s us trying to a brand of passing football against better footballing sides with better players. Perhaps we should have tried to mix things up more? We are far too predictable and slow with our passing in comparison to those other sides that play that same brand of football in the EPL. |
We do mix it up though. We've gone more direct a lot this season. | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:21 - Mar 31 with 1655 views | Guthrum |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 10:12 - Mar 31 by Chrisd |
That’s a fair comment, but there’s us trying to a brand of passing football against better footballing sides with better players. Perhaps we should have tried to mix things up more? We are far too predictable and slow with our passing in comparison to those other sides that play that same brand of football in the EPL. |
From what I've seen, the key to nullifying our game has been superior defensive positioning by opposition players. Their reading of the game is such that they can put themselves in the right place to intercept our passing and so snuffing out attacks before we can even get close to goal.
That and our runners can rarely get more than a few yards before two or three opponents are onto them.
It's not down to speed, strength or athleticism (tho they have plenty of that too), but awareness, sharp analysis of the situation and understanding what to do about it. Our passing is predictable because they are better at predicting. That's part of what makes them Prem footballers. Some of that is natural ability and some experience at the highest level. |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:29 - Mar 31 with 1621 views | SaffronWaldenBlues |
Luton played a style that was more robust, we took the Burnley-ball route, and while it worked early on for periods in games and some teams were caught off guard, we were figured out and ultimately we don't have the quality in the squad to play that style of football, nor sustain it for a season. We were very naive both in terms of tactics and recruitment in this league.
However, whether or not we had the squad capable (with our injuries, lack of size, and raw athleticism) of trying to play the way Luron did, and make a go of it, is a big question. We are maybe just too lightweight for that style too.
We must come down, focus on getting promoted, and then an overhaul of players/tactics should we come up again. We can't attempt this again, that's for sure, we need to play for points, not plaudits. However the established 17 will have yet another year on us, along with those advantages, should we come up again, and the anger is if a club like Leeds can come back up and cement themselves like a Forest has, it's going to be even harder for clubs like ours to try and break in. Especially when financial cheating is punished so weakly in that league. |  |
| An East Anglian Town overtaken by Londoners |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:41 - Mar 31 with 1573 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:29 - Mar 31 by SaffronWaldenBlues |
Luton played a style that was more robust, we took the Burnley-ball route, and while it worked early on for periods in games and some teams were caught off guard, we were figured out and ultimately we don't have the quality in the squad to play that style of football, nor sustain it for a season. We were very naive both in terms of tactics and recruitment in this league.
However, whether or not we had the squad capable (with our injuries, lack of size, and raw athleticism) of trying to play the way Luron did, and make a go of it, is a big question. We are maybe just too lightweight for that style too.
We must come down, focus on getting promoted, and then an overhaul of players/tactics should we come up again. We can't attempt this again, that's for sure, we need to play for points, not plaudits. However the established 17 will have yet another year on us, along with those advantages, should we come up again, and the anger is if a club like Leeds can come back up and cement themselves like a Forest has, it's going to be even harder for clubs like ours to try and break in. Especially when financial cheating is punished so weakly in that league. |
We certainly do not play "Burnley Ball".
They were a team who tried to dominate possession, we didn't even do that in the championship. | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:43 - Mar 31 with 1557 views | ArnieM |
I suspect Luton kept a much more settled team than we have. I dont think McKenna has played an unchanged side once in the league this season. Hardly encouraged continuity and inter-team communication building . |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:47 - Mar 31 with 1538 views | Herbivore |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:43 - Mar 31 by ArnieM |
I suspect Luton kept a much more settled team than we have. I dont think McKenna has played an unchanged side once in the league this season. Hardly encouraged continuity and inter-team communication building . |
It's almost like we've had one of the worst injury records in the league and it's meant we've not been able to field a consistent side. | |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:48 - Mar 31 with 1535 views | hype313 |
| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 12:43 - Mar 31 by ArnieM |
I suspect Luton kept a much more settled team than we have. I dont think McKenna has played an unchanged side once in the league this season. Hardly encouraged continuity and inter-team communication building . |
Injuries haven't helped though, especially losing Ogbene and then Burns, which is a position so instrumental to how McKenna wants to play.
Losing those two really has had a huge effect on our season. |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 20:25 - Mar 31 with 1170 views | MK1 |
As long as next season we do far, far, far better than they have done this season, then I really couldn't care less. |  |
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 20:38 - Mar 31 with 1130 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
In regards to making a better fist of it on a very small net spend, yes! We have failed in that aspect really when you think of the cash we have thrown about. However, we are clearly going to be in much better shape moving forward and will be one of the firm favorites to return with a young and talented squad. One that also probably has a tone of future value and room to develop.
Our recruitment has been far from flawless but Luton didn’t even really try, they banked the money for a new stadium. I’m sure they never thought they be starring down the barrel of league 1 though. [Post edited 31 Mar 20:39]
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| Did Luton last season do a better job than us? on 20:46 - Mar 31 with 1082 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
They gave staying up a better go than we did ... but still failed (and it is just possible we still succeed if Man City get a huge points deduction!)
They ended up in the Championship with a squad good enough for the relegation battle in it. I believe our squad for next season is much better. So the question is: does nearly but not quite doing any better in the Premier League season mean they did a better job? In terms of long term planning, that would be a resounding no. In terms of the short term it would be a not really. Would Liverpool have done any better to have won the league with 5 matches to spare than if they won it on the last day? Either way, winning it is winning it just as getting relegated is getting relegated. |  |
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