| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& 10:53 - May 15 with 4906 views | blueasfook |
He's basically turned into a pound shop Nigel Farage hasn't he [Post edited 16 May 9:32]
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:01 - May 15 with 2751 views | Bluecoin |
Enoch Starmer. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:05 - May 15 with 2734 views | StokieBlue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:01 - May 15 by Bluecoin |
Enoch Starmer. |
You complain when he's not doing things about immigration and then you complain when he is doing things about immigration.
SB |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:40 - May 15 with 2625 views | lowhouseblue |
is it really an unreasonable thing to say? as a nation we get to define the terms on which people are given a right to remain, and to set expectations about what citizenship then requires. we don't have open borders - all rights to come here are politically, and ideally democratically, created. what's wrong with that? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:48 - May 15 with 2566 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:40 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
is it really an unreasonable thing to say? as a nation we get to define the terms on which people are given a right to remain, and to set expectations about what citizenship then requires. we don't have open borders - all rights to come here are politically, and ideally democratically, created. what's wrong with that? |
It's just an empty soundbite, is it not? How do you "earn" your settlement here? |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:49 - May 15 with 2565 views | TractorWood |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:40 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
is it really an unreasonable thing to say? as a nation we get to define the terms on which people are given a right to remain, and to set expectations about what citizenship then requires. we don't have open borders - all rights to come here are politically, and ideally democratically, created. what's wrong with that? |
I think there is a collection of people who suffer from narcissism of small differences on this kind of stuff.
Totally, outspokenly offended by incredibly minor points. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:49 - May 15 with 2569 views | JackNorthStand |
It’s desperate and people aren’t stupid. This willturn the labour voters he did have left away from him in their droves.
Own goal by Starmer for sure. Role on when Nigel Farage is out PM 🇬🇧 |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:52 - May 15 with 2560 views | StokieBlue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:49 - May 15 by JackNorthStand |
It’s desperate and people aren’t stupid. This willturn the labour voters he did have left away from him in their droves.
Own goal by Starmer for sure. Role on when Nigel Farage is out PM 🇬🇧 |
Which reform policies are you looking forward to seeing implemented?
SB | | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:55 - May 15 with 2547 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:52 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
Which reform policies are you looking forward to seeing implemented?
SB |
Do they still advocate a return to smoking in pubs? | | | |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:55 - May 15 with 2547 views | J2BLUE |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:49 - May 15 by JackNorthStand |
It’s desperate and people aren’t stupid. This willturn the labour voters he did have left away from him in their droves.
Own goal by Starmer for sure. Role on when Nigel Farage is out PM 🇬🇧 |
Hope your health insurance isn't too expensive. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 with 2499 views | ArmaghBlue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:05 - May 15 by StokieBlue |
You complain when he's not doing things about immigration and then you complain when he is doing things about immigration.
SB |
In the real world, saying is not doing. |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 with 2493 views | lowhouseblue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:48 - May 15 by Blueschev |
It's just an empty soundbite, is it not? How do you "earn" your settlement here? |
most immediately you should earn it by being economically active, not committing crime, not being reliant on state support, and having skills etc that as a nation we need. i think other things are much harder to test, but ideally people who want to make their lives here long-term should accept various legal and cultural norms, such as the rights of women and the rights of minorities. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:04 - May 15 with 2485 views | ArmaghBlue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
most immediately you should earn it by being economically active, not committing crime, not being reliant on state support, and having skills etc that as a nation we need. i think other things are much harder to test, but ideally people who want to make their lives here long-term should accept various legal and cultural norms, such as the rights of women and the rights of minorities. |
So basically, what most countries in the world do 🙂 | | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:17 - May 15 with 2434 views | Herbivore |
This thread is proof positive that you won't win over Reform voters by behaving like Reform on immigration. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:23 - May 15 with 2402 views | bluelagos |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
most immediately you should earn it by being economically active, not committing crime, not being reliant on state support, and having skills etc that as a nation we need. i think other things are much harder to test, but ideally people who want to make their lives here long-term should accept various legal and cultural norms, such as the rights of women and the rights of minorities. |
That's the royal family fcked then. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:31 - May 15 with 2356 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
most immediately you should earn it by being economically active, not committing crime, not being reliant on state support, and having skills etc that as a nation we need. i think other things are much harder to test, but ideally people who want to make their lives here long-term should accept various legal and cultural norms, such as the rights of women and the rights of minorities. |
So you "earn" it by doing what the overwhelming majority of those wishing to settle here already do? Wow, how refreshing. Thank god the grown ups are now in charge. | | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:31 - May 15 with 2359 views | badadski |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:17 - May 15 by Herbivore |
This thread is proof positive that you won't win over Reform voters by behaving like Reform on immigration. |
Immigration through legal channels is not the issue and he knows it, its part of the issue but foreign nationals, especially going through our education system are paying hundreds of thousands to our government in tuition fees, visa fees, before getting any where close to settlement status.
Its the Illegal immigrants and the boat load of fighting age males that are the elephant in the room and that Starmer is not addressing.
I do appreciate its not easily dealt with but im not a government worker/politician paid to deal with it. All i know is we are paying the French to assist in blocking them from leaving French soil which they are blatantly not doing so may as well cut their funding.
We are paying billions in expenses to keep them detained in luxury until legal channels allow them to be deported which can take years if they haven't escaped into the wilderness.
I appreciate their is a bit of coastline that you have to permanently check over but nothing that a few million on patrolled boats, floating security check points and drones shouldn't be able to cover for far less than what has to be paid per illegal immigrant when they make it to our land.
I dont envy the current state of things or who ever has to deal with such a mess but Labour now and Tories earlier have really screwed the Pooch and are not helping them selves at all. I would honestly rather the government say its incompetent and doesnt know how to deal with the boats but is trying then the rubbish soundbites they are spouting at the moment. We want to see action not hot air. Well thats me any way | | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:35 - May 15 with 2317 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:31 - May 15 by badadski |
Immigration through legal channels is not the issue and he knows it, its part of the issue but foreign nationals, especially going through our education system are paying hundreds of thousands to our government in tuition fees, visa fees, before getting any where close to settlement status.
Its the Illegal immigrants and the boat load of fighting age males that are the elephant in the room and that Starmer is not addressing.
I do appreciate its not easily dealt with but im not a government worker/politician paid to deal with it. All i know is we are paying the French to assist in blocking them from leaving French soil which they are blatantly not doing so may as well cut their funding.
We are paying billions in expenses to keep them detained in luxury until legal channels allow them to be deported which can take years if they haven't escaped into the wilderness.
I appreciate their is a bit of coastline that you have to permanently check over but nothing that a few million on patrolled boats, floating security check points and drones shouldn't be able to cover for far less than what has to be paid per illegal immigrant when they make it to our land.
I dont envy the current state of things or who ever has to deal with such a mess but Labour now and Tories earlier have really screwed the Pooch and are not helping them selves at all. I would honestly rather the government say its incompetent and doesnt know how to deal with the boats but is trying then the rubbish soundbites they are spouting at the moment. We want to see action not hot air. Well thats me any way |
Peter Foster from the FT on the radio this morning said that before Brexit around one half of asylum seekers had made claims in other EU countries and could be returned under the Dublin Agreement.
We can no longer do that, and no longer get the information which shows whether a person crossing the Channel has had a failed asylum application in another EU country. This adds to the length of processing such claims not least because failure in another country is prima facie evidence that they don't meet the criteria.. [Post edited 15 May 14:36]
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:54 - May 15 with 2198 views | lowhouseblue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:04 - May 15 by ArmaghBlue |
So basically, what most countries in the world do 🙂 |
so why is it controversial when starmer says as much? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:58 - May 15 with 2184 views | BlueBadger |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:03 - May 15 by ArmaghBlue |
In the real world, saying is not doing. |
Like say, offering an extra £350M a week for the NHS? |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:01 - May 15 with 2158 views | baxterbasics |
In isolation that statement should be pretty obvious.
Unfortunately there's a lot of detail needed to define those privileges and what it takes to earn them, and who decides.
So not entirely useful. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:09 - May 15 with 2119 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:01 - May 15 by Bluecoin |
Enoch Starmer. |
He's clearly not an open racist like Enoch Powell, but he's rivaling May for creating a hostile environment for foreigners.
I find it all very depressing. I was hoping we might get some grown ups in charge again after the same sort of nonsense from the last few Tory governments. But obviously wanting to fix things and make things easier for organisations and public services is secondary to trying to court voters away from Farage (which he won't do by not having a clear policy agenda to improve people's lives). It's small-mindedness and spitefulness that will not improve our lives. |  |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:17 - May 15 with 2077 views | lowhouseblue |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:54 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
so why is it controversial when starmer says as much? |
herbivore, you've actually missed one of my posts at 12.03. it's currently lacking your down arrow and looks naked. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:21 - May 15 with 2056 views | WD19 |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 11:48 - May 15 by Blueschev |
It's just an empty soundbite, is it not? How do you "earn" your settlement here? |
By paddling hard? |  | | |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:42 - May 15 with 1925 views | Herbivore |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:31 - May 15 by badadski |
Immigration through legal channels is not the issue and he knows it, its part of the issue but foreign nationals, especially going through our education system are paying hundreds of thousands to our government in tuition fees, visa fees, before getting any where close to settlement status.
Its the Illegal immigrants and the boat load of fighting age males that are the elephant in the room and that Starmer is not addressing.
I do appreciate its not easily dealt with but im not a government worker/politician paid to deal with it. All i know is we are paying the French to assist in blocking them from leaving French soil which they are blatantly not doing so may as well cut their funding.
We are paying billions in expenses to keep them detained in luxury until legal channels allow them to be deported which can take years if they haven't escaped into the wilderness.
I appreciate their is a bit of coastline that you have to permanently check over but nothing that a few million on patrolled boats, floating security check points and drones shouldn't be able to cover for far less than what has to be paid per illegal immigrant when they make it to our land.
I dont envy the current state of things or who ever has to deal with such a mess but Labour now and Tories earlier have really screwed the Pooch and are not helping them selves at all. I would honestly rather the government say its incompetent and doesnt know how to deal with the boats but is trying then the rubbish soundbites they are spouting at the moment. We want to see action not hot air. Well thats me any way |
There's a lot to unpack here. Small boat crossings make up less than 5% of arrivals into the UK so tackling those is going to have a negligible impact on net migration, so all of the "country's full, mate" types who support Reform are barking up the wrong tree if they think stopping the boats will drastically reduce immigration. It won't.
The whole "fighting age men" trope has been done to death. If your family were fleeing war or persecution and you were a 25 year old man, would you send your younger sister, your mum, or your nan traipsing halfway across the world to seek asylum? Or would it make more sense for the person who goes to be the one who is most physically robust and able to keep themselves safe, and most likely to be able to earn money if they are able to gain asylum?
You're right on one thing, it's not easy to deal with. So why do Reform voters buy the simplistic "solutions" offered by Farage? Simple solutions to complex problems don't exist. If they did, people would have already implemented them. Another Farage lie that Brexit would mean control of our borders has, as others have pointed out, spectacularly backfired and made it harder for us to return some migrants. Yet people still get hoodwinked into thinking he's got the answers.
Your solution needs a lot of work, not least what to do when you intercept a packed boat that's not really safe to be making a crossing. Do you force it to turnaround and let them all drown when it capsizes? Or do you rescue them and then bring them back to the UK? If your solution is we pick them up and dump them in France, you might want to look into the legality of that
There are possible solutions, but they're likely to include deals with France on returns, and if we really want to stop or drastically reduce the crossings, then offering people safe and legal routes would help. Potentially even having a processing centre in France to undermine much of the business model of the people traffickers. But that's not good enough for those who claim they just want to stop people coming here illegally, even though it would seriously reduce the number of people coming here illegally. | |
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| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 13:56 - May 15 with 1885 views | Blueschev |
| Keir Starmer: "Settlement in UK is a privilege that is earned, not a right& on 12:54 - May 15 by lowhouseblue |
so why is it controversial when starmer says as much? |
It's not controversial, it's just an obvious and lazy statement. What exactly does it add to the immigration debate? What does it propose to solve? What's next, tough on immigration, tough on the causes of immigration? At least that would be multi faceted I suppose. | | | |
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