| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged 21:30 - May 17 with 3026 views | blueasfook |
For plotting to attack and seriously harm UK journalists.
All 3 entered the UK as asylum seekers - one concealed in a lorry, two arrived in small boats.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04eze3wv5go |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 21:48 - May 17 with 2497 views | SitfcB |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 21:50 - May 17 with 2473 views | Churchman |
Yvette Cooper: “We must also strengthen our powers to protect our national security as we will not tolerate growing state threats on our soil."
Plenty of words. Let’s see if they are accompanied by actions. |  | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:14 - May 17 with 2374 views | NewcyBlue |
So you’re saying the vetting and monitoring of those claiming asylum appears to be working? |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:19 - May 17 with 2347 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:14 - May 17 by NewcyBlue |
So you’re saying the vetting and monitoring of those claiming asylum appears to be working? |
And the previous government who despite all their anti-immigrant rhetoric did nothing to stop illegal immigration allowed these 3 individuals into the country. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:19 - May 17 with 2348 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
A good illustration that undocumented entry that doesn’t occur at port of entry can have serious implications to national security and interests, as many had been saying for a long time and got shamefully labelled far right. |  | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:22 - May 17 with 2305 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:19 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
A good illustration that undocumented entry that doesn’t occur at port of entry can have serious implications to national security and interests, as many had been saying for a long time and got shamefully labelled far right. |
Can you point me to a single post where that happened? | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:22 - May 17 with 2300 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:14 - May 17 by NewcyBlue |
So you’re saying the vetting and monitoring of those claiming asylum appears to be working? |
Well no, they granted asylum and then got charged years later, obviously these are not the kind of people you want granted asylum in the first place, [Post edited 17 May 22:23]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:24 - May 17 with 2286 views | StokieBlue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:19 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
A good illustration that undocumented entry that doesn’t occur at port of entry can have serious implications to national security and interests, as many had been saying for a long time and got shamefully labelled far right. |
The implication of your statement is that terrorism isn't carried out by those who have documented entry and that's clearly a falsehood.
Let's not let that get in the way of an agenda though.
SB |  | | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:27 - May 17 with 2221 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:22 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Well no, they granted asylum and then got charged years later, obviously these are not the kind of people you want granted asylum in the first place, [Post edited 17 May 22:23]
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Indeed, let's hope a government that takes processing assylum seekers seriously will identify those with terrorist intent and deny them assylum. Of course, I doubt they advertised that intent, though.
Or is your argument that no one should be granted assylum full stop? [Post edited 17 May 22:27]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:30 - May 17 with 2190 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:24 - May 17 by StokieBlue |
The implication of your statement is that terrorism isn't carried out by those who have documented entry and that's clearly a falsehood.
Let's not let that get in the way of an agenda though.
SB |
No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you.
Many people get arrested for terrorism charges, including those who were vetted or even home grown citizens. That is also true.
However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in.
So yes, do whatever you can to stop it for multiple reasons. [Post edited 17 May 22:34]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:33 - May 17 with 2155 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:27 - May 17 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Indeed, let's hope a government that takes processing assylum seekers seriously will identify those with terrorist intent and deny them assylum. Of course, I doubt they advertised that intent, though.
Or is your argument that no one should be granted assylum full stop? [Post edited 17 May 22:27]
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No of course that’s not my argument but there should be measures to stop the boats, fix the system, help those that need genuine assistance as well as having the ability to vet those that might wish to do the country harm. [Post edited 18 May 4:33]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:34 - May 17 with 2137 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:30 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you.
Many people get arrested for terrorism charges, including those who were vetted or even home grown citizens. That is also true.
However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in.
So yes, do whatever you can to stop it for multiple reasons. [Post edited 17 May 22:34]
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How do you stop people arriving undocumented which appears to be your aim here? | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:41 - May 17 with 2061 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:34 - May 17 by Nthsuffolkblue |
How do you stop people arriving undocumented which appears to be your aim here? |
Well, when you turn up at a port of entry, you’ve usually needed a document to get on said vessel to get to the UK.
The better question would be, why would you want someone who you don’t know who they are in the country? Especially those that are paying money to people smuggling gangs to arrive by dangerous means.
If your question is regarding genuine people that need help that don’t have a passport or any identification, that’s I guess for a lot of counties to try and figure out. | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 07:21 - May 18 with 1197 views | bsw72 |
And have subsequently been identified, monitored and arrested, sounds like the asylum system is working, even for those undocumented, thank you for highlighting. |  | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 07:25 - May 18 with 1181 views | bsw72 |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:22 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Well no, they granted asylum and then got charged years later, obviously these are not the kind of people you want granted asylum in the first place, [Post edited 17 May 22:23]
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Errr, no. They were not granted asylum, they were granted temporary leave. Very different. | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 07:55 - May 18 with 1126 views | Herbivore |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:24 - May 17 by StokieBlue |
The implication of your statement is that terrorism isn't carried out by those who have documented entry and that's clearly a falsehood.
Let's not let that get in the way of an agenda though.
SB |
Or, indeed, by people born in the UK, such as the Manchester arena bombers and three of the four 7/7 bombers (the other being born in Jamaica and coming to the UK aged 5, not via small boat or lorry crossing). |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:00 - May 18 with 1113 views | Herbivore |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:33 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No of course that’s not my argument but there should be measures to stop the boats, fix the system, help those that need genuine assistance as well as having the ability to vet those that might wish to do the country harm. [Post edited 18 May 4:33]
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The best way to stop the boats (or at least reduce them significantly) and to vet people claiming asylum would be to open up safe and legal routes for them to claim asylum and to be assessed. Whether that's them being allowed to enter the UK safely and legally, or coming to an arrangement with France whereby we process claims there. Of course, that vetting is very unlikely to show up that they have terrorist intent, which is presumably why individuals such as those arrested who are deemed a potential risk are monitored by anti-terror officers once here. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:22 - May 18 with 1079 views | StokieBlue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:30 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you.
Many people get arrested for terrorism charges, including those who were vetted or even home grown citizens. That is also true.
However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in.
So yes, do whatever you can to stop it for multiple reasons. [Post edited 17 May 22:34]
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"No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you."
But you're implicitly linking being unvetted with possible harm to the country. Do you have figures to support that or any evidence?
From my recollection almost all major terrorist attacks are committed by documented individuals be they domestic or having legally entered the country.
It's demonisation to use link illegal immigration to a higher probability of terrorism without evidence and it's something that needs to be pushed back on.
"However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in."
Once again, do you have any evidence that this is the case? I don't think the statistics support this being the issue that you are making it out to be. In fact, many attacks have heavy logistical support which requires vectors that aren't constantly monitored after entry.
I understand the point you're making and your perspective, I just don't think it's supported by any evidence and it's the exact type of persuasive point where people go "it makes you think" without it actually be true. It's something Trump and Farage do all the time and I feel it's right to challenge you on it.
If you can support your large assumptions with evidence then I am happy to concede that.
SB | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:51 - May 18 with 1014 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:00 - May 18 by Herbivore |
The best way to stop the boats (or at least reduce them significantly) and to vet people claiming asylum would be to open up safe and legal routes for them to claim asylum and to be assessed. Whether that's them being allowed to enter the UK safely and legally, or coming to an arrangement with France whereby we process claims there. Of course, that vetting is very unlikely to show up that they have terrorist intent, which is presumably why individuals such as those arrested who are deemed a potential risk are monitored by anti-terror officers once here. |
Without knowing how these people came on to the intelligence services radar its hard to say whether their terrorist intentions were uncovered by asylum process vetting. Given the first ones arrived in 2016, I'd say its unlikely to be the case. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:54 - May 18 with 962 views | Mullet |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:51 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Without knowing how these people came on to the intelligence services radar its hard to say whether their terrorist intentions were uncovered by asylum process vetting. Given the first ones arrived in 2016, I'd say its unlikely to be the case. |
It's a bit odd you're not blaming Iran here as the major reason. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:58 - May 18 with 946 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:54 - May 18 by Mullet |
It's a bit odd you're not blaming Iran here as the major reason. |
Yes good point. Let's blame Iran for our poor border security. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:01 - May 18 with 902 views | Mullet |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:58 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Yes good point. Let's blame Iran for our poor border security. |
Even if that's the case (and I'm not sure it is). The fact you're not outraged at a hostile nation with such a terrible record, sending spies to embed in our country is a weird take isn't it?
Was it poor border security that saw the Royals tangled up with Chinese spying? Various cases in the cold war era? | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:03 - May 18 with 885 views | StokieBlue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:51 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Without knowing how these people came on to the intelligence services radar its hard to say whether their terrorist intentions were uncovered by asylum process vetting. Given the first ones arrived in 2016, I'd say its unlikely to be the case. |
Given they have been here 9 years as per your post, how do you know they weren't radicalised after they arrived? As per my reply to JJJJ, there is very little evidence to suggest terrorism is more likely from undocumented entrants. If you can find some I would be happy to see it.
Why are you so keen to focus on this instance rather than all the other incidents of terrorism which weren't involving asylum seekers? Why do you think this is down to poor border security? Were other terrorists incidents, like Salisbury, down to poor border security even though they entered on a valid passport and were fully documented?
I'm interested to hear your views given you posted this thread up without comment.
SB | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:05 - May 18 with 858 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:01 - May 18 by Mullet |
Even if that's the case (and I'm not sure it is). The fact you're not outraged at a hostile nation with such a terrible record, sending spies to embed in our country is a weird take isn't it?
Was it poor border security that saw the Royals tangled up with Chinese spying? Various cases in the cold war era? |
Same poor border security that saw those Russian agents come in and poison the Skripals. I am not discriminating. We know Iran doesn't like us. It's a given. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:06 - May 18 with 826 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:03 - May 18 by StokieBlue |
Given they have been here 9 years as per your post, how do you know they weren't radicalised after they arrived? As per my reply to JJJJ, there is very little evidence to suggest terrorism is more likely from undocumented entrants. If you can find some I would be happy to see it.
Why are you so keen to focus on this instance rather than all the other incidents of terrorism which weren't involving asylum seekers? Why do you think this is down to poor border security? Were other terrorists incidents, like Salisbury, down to poor border security even though they entered on a valid passport and were fully documented?
I'm interested to hear your views given you posted this thread up without comment.
SB |
Quite happy to discuss with people i wish to discuss with, thanks. | |
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