| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged 21:30 - May 17 with 3024 views | blueasfook |
For plotting to attack and seriously harm UK journalists.
All 3 entered the UK as asylum seekers - one concealed in a lorry, two arrived in small boats.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04eze3wv5go |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:07 - May 18 with 405 views | Mullet |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:05 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Same poor border security that saw those Russian agents come in and poison the Skripals. I am not discriminating. We know Iran doesn't like us. It's a given. |
You know they don't saunter through baggage claims in a brown mac, puffing on a cig and looking for a bridge to stand on right?
Even totalitarian states can't do what you seem to be arguing for. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:13 - May 18 with 386 views | You_Bloo_Right |
The complex problems of immigration, refugees, espionage and radicalisation (and the extent to which any of these may or may not be linked) seem unlikely to have simple solutions. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:14 - May 18 with 400 views | StokieBlue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:06 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Quite happy to discuss with people i wish to discuss with, thanks. |
Fair enough, unable to engage with facts and reasoned debate I guess.
For the record, I will continue to challenge your dog whistling and inconsistent posting whether you decide to engage or not as it's the right thing to do.
SB [Post edited 18 May 9:27]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:15 - May 18 with 386 views | NewcyBlue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:05 - May 18 by blueasfook |
Same poor border security that saw those Russian agents come in and poison the Skripals. I am not discriminating. We know Iran doesn't like us. It's a given. |
What do you think happened exactly? They arrived, admitted to being here for a spot of terrorism and were waved through? |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:15 - May 18 with 384 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:07 - May 18 by Mullet |
You know they don't saunter through baggage claims in a brown mac, puffing on a cig and looking for a bridge to stand on right?
Even totalitarian states can't do what you seem to be arguing for. |
Well no, no country has 100% secure borders but we could do a lot better. I think that's fair to say. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:17 - May 18 with 381 views | Swansea_Blue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:19 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
A good illustration that undocumented entry that doesn’t occur at port of entry can have serious implications to national security and interests, as many had been saying for a long time and got shamefully labelled far right. |
Foreign intelligence services will always find a way around things and of either inserting people or recruiting them.
Small boats are not the issue here and it’s interesting to see people try to make it the issue. The real story is Iran carrying out espionage and planning for terrorist activities on our own soil. The answers will have nothing to do with immigration processes and all to do with MI5’s brief. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:55 - May 18 with 322 views | Ryorry |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 07:21 - May 18 by bsw72 |
And have subsequently been identified, monitored and arrested, sounds like the asylum system is working, even for those undocumented, thank you for highlighting. |
And their ages - 39, 44, & esp Shapoor Qalehali Khani Noori at 55 - doesn't exactly support the "fighting age" narrative either. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:01 - May 18 with 302 views | bournemouthblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:30 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you.
Many people get arrested for terrorism charges, including those who were vetted or even home grown citizens. That is also true.
However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in.
So yes, do whatever you can to stop it for multiple reasons. [Post edited 17 May 22:34]
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I presume you are in favour of safe routes into the country with that being the case [Post edited 18 May 10:06]
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:11 - May 18 with 268 views | Zx1988 |
On the basis that they're believed to be Iranian intelligence assets, could Iran not have set them up with decent 'legends', given them a whole suite of legitimately-issued documents, passports, records etc., and had them enter the country through normal means?
The 'undocumented immigrants' angle here would appear to be a complete red herring. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:14 - May 18 with 259 views | blueasfook |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 09:55 - May 18 by Ryorry |
And their ages - 39, 44, & esp Shapoor Qalehali Khani Noori at 55 - doesn't exactly support the "fighting age" narrative either. |
He's in a wheelchair I believe? So clearly not one who was going to do the physical bit of whatever they had planned. Probably a ringleader | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:20 - May 18 with 241 views | brogansnose |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:14 - May 18 by blueasfook |
He's in a wheelchair I believe? So clearly not one who was going to do the physical bit of whatever they had planned. Probably a ringleader |
Although it does highlight that the Iranian security forces welcome applicants from all backgrounds and disabilities to carry out terrorist activities.
Who'd have thought ? |  | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 11:26 - May 18 with 189 views | m14_blue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:14 - May 18 by blueasfook |
He's in a wheelchair I believe? So clearly not one who was going to do the physical bit of whatever they had planned. Probably a ringleader |
No wonder Starmer came down hard on him. | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 14:50 - May 18 with 91 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 22:41 - May 17 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Well, when you turn up at a port of entry, you’ve usually needed a document to get on said vessel to get to the UK.
The better question would be, why would you want someone who you don’t know who they are in the country? Especially those that are paying money to people smuggling gangs to arrive by dangerous means.
If your question is regarding genuine people that need help that don’t have a passport or any identification, that’s I guess for a lot of counties to try and figure out. |
You got there with your final paragraph. So it is "for a lot of countries to try and figure out".
OK.
Of course, there may be some with evil intent who will deliberately arrive without documentation in order to pretend to be those genuinely without them. It is also equally likely that many of those who end up resorting to terror are those whose experiences of being isolated, demonised, and badly treated have helped lead them on that path. A very good reason to stop isolating, demonising and badly treating all immigrants in my opinion. |  |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 15:04 - May 18 with 85 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:22 - May 18 by StokieBlue |
"No the implication of my post is being undocumented means the country are unable to properly vet those who arrive this way. That is never a good thing obviously. Which is why it’s important to try and stop this route, not just that, but because it’s pretty common knowledge it’s run by dangerous criminals. To be clear not everyone that arrives by this route wants to do the country harm, really not sure why I needed to clarify that for you."
But you're implicitly linking being unvetted with possible harm to the country. Do you have figures to support that or any evidence?
From my recollection almost all major terrorist attacks are committed by documented individuals be they domestic or having legally entered the country.
It's demonisation to use link illegal immigration to a higher probability of terrorism without evidence and it's something that needs to be pushed back on.
"However, when this is seen as a soft and easy way to enter the country, those that want to do the country harm will see it as a route in."
Once again, do you have any evidence that this is the case? I don't think the statistics support this being the issue that you are making it out to be. In fact, many attacks have heavy logistical support which requires vectors that aren't constantly monitored after entry.
I understand the point you're making and your perspective, I just don't think it's supported by any evidence and it's the exact type of persuasive point where people go "it makes you think" without it actually be true. It's something Trump and Farage do all the time and I feel it's right to challenge you on it.
If you can support your large assumptions with evidence then I am happy to concede that.
SB |
God you’re painful. It was a specific response to this thread and an individual story.
Not sure how on earth is it a controversial position to suggest vetting is important for national security. Quite literally 3 Iranian spies (one that entered on lorry and 2 by boat) have been charged with serious offenses. So I said this is as an example of why it’s important to try and stop these illegal routes in the interests of national security (amongst other reasons).
Why do you think visa free travel doesn’t exist for certain nationals by the way? Vetting happens for a reason. If you’re pro open borders and not knowing who enters the country at all at least present this as a position so you can be debated from there. However, here you are speculating on when they were radicalized and telling other people what they are implying when I responding to a specific news story, a thread that I hadn’t even started by the way. |  | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 15:25 - May 18 with 64 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 08:00 - May 18 by Herbivore |
The best way to stop the boats (or at least reduce them significantly) and to vet people claiming asylum would be to open up safe and legal routes for them to claim asylum and to be assessed. Whether that's them being allowed to enter the UK safely and legally, or coming to an arrangement with France whereby we process claims there. Of course, that vetting is very unlikely to show up that they have terrorist intent, which is presumably why individuals such as those arrested who are deemed a potential risk are monitored by anti-terror officers once here. |
Agree with the first part of your statement and is what I’d very much advocate for, despite some quite daft questions asking me stuff like would stop granting asylum full stop. A ridiculous and boarding on offensive question/leap.
However, deporting undocumented people is extremely hard, as the figures I provided to you on another thread (which you said never existed) confirmed. Hence if anyone had bad intent and gets in via one of these routes you can see the potential issues.
Considering its links to organized crime, the dangers on the crossings and the problems with processing and vetting, surely everyone should want to stop the small boat crossings. However, it’s seems to be seen as some right wing dog whistle by some. | | | |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 15:25 - May 18 with 64 views | Zx1988 |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 15:04 - May 18 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
God you’re painful. It was a specific response to this thread and an individual story.
Not sure how on earth is it a controversial position to suggest vetting is important for national security. Quite literally 3 Iranian spies (one that entered on lorry and 2 by boat) have been charged with serious offenses. So I said this is as an example of why it’s important to try and stop these illegal routes in the interests of national security (amongst other reasons).
Why do you think visa free travel doesn’t exist for certain nationals by the way? Vetting happens for a reason. If you’re pro open borders and not knowing who enters the country at all at least present this as a position so you can be debated from there. However, here you are speculating on when they were radicalized and telling other people what they are implying when I responding to a specific news story, a thread that I hadn’t even started by the way. |
Vetting and visas aren't the panacea you seem to believe them to be.
It would take some serious intelligence to detect a 'fresh out of the box' foreign agent, with all the necessary documents, coming over here on nefarious business. And that's before we even touch upon the diplomatic corps. | |
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| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 15:29 - May 18 with 52 views | Swansea_Blue |
| BBC News - 3 Iranians arrested and charged on 10:11 - May 18 by Zx1988 |
On the basis that they're believed to be Iranian intelligence assets, could Iran not have set them up with decent 'legends', given them a whole suite of legitimately-issued documents, passports, records etc., and had them enter the country through normal means?
The 'undocumented immigrants' angle here would appear to be a complete red herring. |
They may well have recruited them after they got here, I’m not aware of enough of the details to know. But yeah, we do know the charges relate to some control by Iran. | |
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