| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in 18:59 - May 18 with 6030 views | Nutkins_Return |
Obviously for what he has done for this club but even on today he's set up a team which did more than enough to win the game and the players haven't taken the chances. We win that game way more often then not on the balance of the game. Rotten result to stomach but not a rotten performance and wouldn't be putting that on the manager today. |  |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:06 - May 18 with 1156 views | TheBoyBlue |
I can almost understand the ones who wonder whether he is up to it, although I disagree vehemently.
The ones I really don't get are the ones who are almost saying "ha! We told you so!" As if we've been hoodwinked by some charlatan and seem absolutely desperate for him to fail next season so they can really proved right.
Rather than someone who has taken us from midtable League 1 to the Premier League in just two years. | |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:07 - May 18 with 1146 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 20:59 - May 18 by Nutkins_Return |
Not sure that's a real group of people. Of course you can question things but we've got people calling for his head etc. the context going into this season is it would take everything to go for us (injuries' few decisions etc) to stay up. Out squad is short to compete and the injuries have not helped/killed us off. There is only so much McKenna can do with the cards he has. He's still the same exceptional manager that went back to back. Reality is doing it back to back made the task even more difficult.
Fully behind that man - he still knows exactly what we need... ;) |
It most definitely is. You’re not allowed any middle ground anymore. |  | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:09 - May 18 with 1129 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:04 - May 18 by Chrisd |
It’s fair to question him, we’ve been poor for months. Yes, he’s done brilliantly the last two seasons but he is not exempt from criticism because of that. He’s paid extremely well to do his job and that comes with a certain level of scrutiny. |
Scrutiny is good, and I’m sure there will be plenty.
Calling for his sacking is not - this is defiantly a case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:33 - May 18 with 1087 views | TheBlueGnu |
I'll be upset if any anti-Knox stuff starts occuring | |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:46 - May 18 with 1062 views | ClareBlue |
Premiership managers worked out how to beat us by October, that's why they are Premiership managers. Premiership managers also know when other managers have worked it out and implement change quickly to stop loding first. That didn't happen. We didn't get harder to beat as the season progressed
All those say he will have learned alot from a season in the Premiership are missing the point that there is no evidence that he has learned anything tactically. Maybe a better understanding of what is required in the recruitment side.
There are loads of managers who have taken clubs into the Premiership with less resources and support who have got their team to perform better than we have this year. That's the fact of the situation. We had two seasons of great football and success but accepted some players wouldn't be up to Premiership standard but for some reason that success means a manager doesn't get judged the same when he didn't perform at a Premiership level. And anyone who said he did perform is delusional. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:57 - May 18 with 1022 views | Blue_Heath |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:46 - May 18 by ClareBlue |
Premiership managers worked out how to beat us by October, that's why they are Premiership managers. Premiership managers also know when other managers have worked it out and implement change quickly to stop loding first. That didn't happen. We didn't get harder to beat as the season progressed
All those say he will have learned alot from a season in the Premiership are missing the point that there is no evidence that he has learned anything tactically. Maybe a better understanding of what is required in the recruitment side.
There are loads of managers who have taken clubs into the Premiership with less resources and support who have got their team to perform better than we have this year. That's the fact of the situation. We had two seasons of great football and success but accepted some players wouldn't be up to Premiership standard but for some reason that success means a manager doesn't get judged the same when he didn't perform at a Premiership level. And anyone who said he did perform is delusional. |
Our inability to defend the wings and stop crosses in is our weak point, not sure you need to be a prem manager to work that out! | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:58 - May 18 with 1021 views | TheBoyBlue |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:46 - May 18 by ClareBlue |
Premiership managers worked out how to beat us by October, that's why they are Premiership managers. Premiership managers also know when other managers have worked it out and implement change quickly to stop loding first. That didn't happen. We didn't get harder to beat as the season progressed
All those say he will have learned alot from a season in the Premiership are missing the point that there is no evidence that he has learned anything tactically. Maybe a better understanding of what is required in the recruitment side.
There are loads of managers who have taken clubs into the Premiership with less resources and support who have got their team to perform better than we have this year. That's the fact of the situation. We had two seasons of great football and success but accepted some players wouldn't be up to Premiership standard but for some reason that success means a manager doesn't get judged the same when he didn't perform at a Premiership level. And anyone who said he did perform is delusional. |
Firstly to say managers worked out how to beat us by October is harsh. We outthought on the odd occasion, but generally up until the New Year we were hard to beat and picking up points, even more of those should've been wins.
Secondly, this is but a step along a long-term project. He won't change the way we play because the mantra is that we get better at playing that way, not abandon it when the going gets tough.
He'll have learnt from it and what he needs to do to get us to a stage when we can compete playing that way.
The club will have learnt/had reinforced what they need to do to help him in that,such as building up the overseas scouting and improving the academy.
We are generally going in the right direction, but as McKenna himself says, progress isn't always linear. | |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 02:50 - May 19 with 860 views | Minneapolis_ITFC |
There's clear hostility towards the manager now prevalent, more so as the adverse results have continued back at top level and nothing seems to change. You can understand the frustrations.
Maybe some were expecting more from the season. I mean 1 win at Portman Road all season long and not many other away from it, that's poor from us, in fact you could go so far to say it's unacceptable or embarrassing. Wasn't expecting overly great things on the return back, there was unlikely to be no repeat of 2001 with Burley, but didn't imagine it would be quite as poor as it turned out to be.
McKenna's the club coach here. Picks the team, organizes training methods, deploys formations, substitute choices and does at the interval what needs to be said whenever a game needs to be turned around. Some would argue he's failed certain obligations or hasn't simply met demands of a higher league.
I don't want him expeled or forced out as there's really no-one better who could do a job for us back at lower league. Think just one of many that's been dismayed by such a poor disappointing season particularly after a 22 year wait to have made it back. You can sense the anger or questionability that a minority seem to possess on the issue. |  | | |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:26 - May 19 with 763 views | DJR |
Some context is needed here.
Yesterday we brought on four players who played in League 1.
Without injuries, we would have been able to bring on Szmodics, Ogbene, Philogene and Phillips, which would seem to me to be an upgrade. [Post edited 19 May 7:27]
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:36 - May 19 with 749 views | Churchman |
Reading this thread, it would seem a sizeable percentage want McKenna out. If I was McKenna and read social media (mad thing to do) I’d be off. He won’t be short of offers from clubs in a far better position than this one.
Maybe not a Spurs, but maybe a big club like Brentford, Bournemouth or Fulham. And make no mistake, by comparison to us they are big clubs in every way bar an attendance. Crowd base is totally unimportant now.
Quite who the hate brigade want I’m really not sure. Oh I know, Warnock? Maybe the Palace bloke. Bad news folks, there’s more chance of finding Farage’s brain than either coming here or anyone better than KM, however excited you might get about the prospect.
So what about McKenna? He’s made mistakes. Plenty. So has the club. Too many which is why we are so far off. So let’s kick out Ashton, McKenna, coaching staff, the pre match commentator (annoying) and Bluey (mange). That’ll do it. No it won’t. Apart from the shouty bloke on the tannoy.
Nobody has said KM has done a great job this season. Neither has the club in its recruitment. The latter needed to be 100%, but sadly wasn’t. So there’s plenty to learn there just as there is regarding the gaping holes in club infrastructure - scouting, training, yoof system, you name it.
I keep seeing Luton’s name waved about. Fine, but wave about the names of others who’ve recovered too. I keep hearing about the fees and RVN. Does anyone seriously thing the latter is a better option than KM? Fees? £130m isn’t a ridiculous amount if you are starting from where we did. £20m to most clubs is a punt, squad player, a cheap gamble.
We bought, by and large, players with potential to grow. Better than pensioners and journeymen. It was a failure to meld them into a coherent team that cost us. Too many changes, injuries and a poor use of the loan market hurt us. But whatever we did, we were always going to fall short.
So do a Norwich and just trouser the loot? Not even try? I’m glad we went for it. Better to fail and learn. Our promotion team? The key players spent much of the season injured and when they weren’t, the majority weren’t good enough.
An example is Broadhead. Smashing footballer who I thought might cut it in the PL. I watched him up close against Wolves in particular. He literally never got a kick. He played like the last pick in the playground. He wasn’t alone. The quality, strength and organisation of these teams is off the scale. Another learning point.
In terms of how we played, Alamo football has its place. Palace played that way Saturday because to go head to head meant getting murdered. But they did it better than us and have the players to play properly against poorer teams. We do not. So why didn’t we sign Eze, the full back Richards, the two Newcastle midfielders, Rice and Izak? How hard can it be? Easy if you have about £500m.
In conclusion I think the sizeable outers will get their wish and McKenna will go. Not to a top job, but to a next level club. £5m a year or whatever he’s on is pin money to a Brentford, Muff or West Ham. The outers will cheer and get all excited. I will not if it happens, because I can’t think of anyone better to progress this club. [Post edited 19 May 7:37]
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:42 - May 19 with 716 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:26 - May 19 by DJR |
Some context is needed here.
Yesterday we brought on four players who played in League 1.
Without injuries, we would have been able to bring on Szmodics, Ogbene, Philogene and Phillips, which would seem to me to be an upgrade. [Post edited 19 May 7:27]
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I never knew we had players that played in League One, if only people mentioned it more…
Leicester meanwhile brought on a 15 year old and a 16 year old with less than 10 professional appearances between them, and started with a striker who played in the seventh tier |  |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:48 - May 19 with 706 views | boysof1981 |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 20:18 - May 18 by blueasfook |
If you look at this season in isolation, McKenna has proven to be no better or worse than the managers of Southampton and Leicester. That's without taking into account we were by far the biggest spenders of the three. Personally I dont much care if he stays or goes at this point. Pretty much indifferent is where I am at. I dont think it would be a disaster for us if he and the club were to part company at this point. |
Personally I’d like to see him stay, but I wouldn’t mind if he left. It’s been a disaster of a calendar year, the team getting worse game on game. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:07 - May 19 with 661 views | DJR |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:42 - May 19 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
I never knew we had players that played in League One, if only people mentioned it more…
Leicester meanwhile brought on a 15 year old and a 16 year old with less than 10 professional appearances between them, and started with a striker who played in the seventh tier |
It's clear that some of our League 1 players have proved to be up to lower Premier League level but, in my view, that is not true of the four we brought on yesterday. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:11 - May 19 with 649 views | DJR |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:36 - May 19 by Churchman |
Reading this thread, it would seem a sizeable percentage want McKenna out. If I was McKenna and read social media (mad thing to do) I’d be off. He won’t be short of offers from clubs in a far better position than this one.
Maybe not a Spurs, but maybe a big club like Brentford, Bournemouth or Fulham. And make no mistake, by comparison to us they are big clubs in every way bar an attendance. Crowd base is totally unimportant now.
Quite who the hate brigade want I’m really not sure. Oh I know, Warnock? Maybe the Palace bloke. Bad news folks, there’s more chance of finding Farage’s brain than either coming here or anyone better than KM, however excited you might get about the prospect.
So what about McKenna? He’s made mistakes. Plenty. So has the club. Too many which is why we are so far off. So let’s kick out Ashton, McKenna, coaching staff, the pre match commentator (annoying) and Bluey (mange). That’ll do it. No it won’t. Apart from the shouty bloke on the tannoy.
Nobody has said KM has done a great job this season. Neither has the club in its recruitment. The latter needed to be 100%, but sadly wasn’t. So there’s plenty to learn there just as there is regarding the gaping holes in club infrastructure - scouting, training, yoof system, you name it.
I keep seeing Luton’s name waved about. Fine, but wave about the names of others who’ve recovered too. I keep hearing about the fees and RVN. Does anyone seriously thing the latter is a better option than KM? Fees? £130m isn’t a ridiculous amount if you are starting from where we did. £20m to most clubs is a punt, squad player, a cheap gamble.
We bought, by and large, players with potential to grow. Better than pensioners and journeymen. It was a failure to meld them into a coherent team that cost us. Too many changes, injuries and a poor use of the loan market hurt us. But whatever we did, we were always going to fall short.
So do a Norwich and just trouser the loot? Not even try? I’m glad we went for it. Better to fail and learn. Our promotion team? The key players spent much of the season injured and when they weren’t, the majority weren’t good enough.
An example is Broadhead. Smashing footballer who I thought might cut it in the PL. I watched him up close against Wolves in particular. He literally never got a kick. He played like the last pick in the playground. He wasn’t alone. The quality, strength and organisation of these teams is off the scale. Another learning point.
In terms of how we played, Alamo football has its place. Palace played that way Saturday because to go head to head meant getting murdered. But they did it better than us and have the players to play properly against poorer teams. We do not. So why didn’t we sign Eze, the full back Richards, the two Newcastle midfielders, Rice and Izak? How hard can it be? Easy if you have about £500m.
In conclusion I think the sizeable outers will get their wish and McKenna will go. Not to a top job, but to a next level club. £5m a year or whatever he’s on is pin money to a Brentford, Muff or West Ham. The outers will cheer and get all excited. I will not if it happens, because I can’t think of anyone better to progress this club. [Post edited 19 May 7:37]
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To quote the title of the Talking Heads' concert film
"Stop making sense" [Post edited 19 May 8:12]
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:16 - May 19 with 631 views | PioneerBlue |
It’s not baffling having been an occasionally intermittent and but more regular viewer of these pages over the years! Folks all have a view, they are not all that logical. Ensuring we hit right back is also not a given, but I don’t think KMck leaves this summer. The main criticism I’ve seen is about formations and timing for subs. The game has changed folks, especially at this level. The intensity means players are litterally knackered over periods of time when you consider training needs and game needs, none of which fans are party to on the detail. The team selection and formation hasn’t been standstill this season, it’s just not worked. Recruitment we have to believe that MA and LW were aligned in bringing the best we could a) afford, b) wanted to come, c) fit KMcks player profile. Therefore if you believe that no one wanted to harm our chances of survival then this has been a step to far for everyone, that is not about blame or fault.
We dust ourselves down, we learn, we adjust, we get ourselves ready and we go smash it next season game by game, month by month! | |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:18 - May 19 with 616 views | Churchman |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:11 - May 19 by DJR |
To quote the title of the Talking Heads' concert film
"Stop making sense" [Post edited 19 May 8:12]
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Sadly, there are too many dismals keen on burning down the house….. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:23 - May 19 with 600 views | HighgateBlue |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:46 - May 18 by ClareBlue |
Premiership managers worked out how to beat us by October, that's why they are Premiership managers. Premiership managers also know when other managers have worked it out and implement change quickly to stop loding first. That didn't happen. We didn't get harder to beat as the season progressed
All those say he will have learned alot from a season in the Premiership are missing the point that there is no evidence that he has learned anything tactically. Maybe a better understanding of what is required in the recruitment side.
There are loads of managers who have taken clubs into the Premiership with less resources and support who have got their team to perform better than we have this year. That's the fact of the situation. We had two seasons of great football and success but accepted some players wouldn't be up to Premiership standard but for some reason that success means a manager doesn't get judged the same when he didn't perform at a Premiership level. And anyone who said he did perform is delusional. |
It's vital that we keek McKenna, as I've said elsewhere.
But I'm not sure our form at different stages in the first half of the season is evidence for the brilliance of premier league managers in particular.
By 28th August we'd been turned over by 2 premier league teams and a side from league 2. |  | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:28 - May 19 with 581 views | Herbivore |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:23 - May 19 by HighgateBlue |
It's vital that we keek McKenna, as I've said elsewhere.
But I'm not sure our form at different stages in the first half of the season is evidence for the brilliance of premier league managers in particular.
By 28th August we'd been turned over by 2 premier league teams and a side from league 2. |
Although those Premier League teams were Liverpool and Man City. It took us 9(?) games to get our first win so it's not like we were flying first half of the season. It's also not like we've been terrible (performance wise) consistently since new year. The two halves of the season we've seen fairly consistent recurring issues of often fading late in games, being competitive but not taking our chances when on top often enough, and conceding soft goals. That was happening from August to December too and it's carried on. There's numerous reasons we've not been able to stem that, but the main one is that (almost) every other side has better players than us and better players on their bench than we have in our starting XI.
Edit: It was actually 11 games to get our first win. [Post edited 19 May 8:37]
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:36 - May 19 with 571 views | blueasfook |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 20:18 - May 18 by blueasfook |
If you look at this season in isolation, McKenna has proven to be no better or worse than the managers of Southampton and Leicester. That's without taking into account we were by far the biggest spenders of the three. Personally I dont much care if he stays or goes at this point. Pretty much indifferent is where I am at. I dont think it would be a disaster for us if he and the club were to part company at this point. |
Got a DaveU downie. Gutted :( sorry DaveU |  |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:41 - May 19 with 562 views | baxterbasics |
Got to acknowledge it's been a disappointing season, particularly the second half. But anyone with half a brain would know relegation was always the most likely outcome. It's no shame that on first time of asking KM was found 'not up to it' - he's still learning his trade in his first full management job.
But the man (combined with Ashton/Gamechanger) saved our club, and taking a step backwards to the Championship doesn't change that. We remain much stronger both on and off pitch than even at the start of last season.
Can't wait to see how the team fares in the coming campaign, even with the high expectations that weren't there last time round. |  |
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| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 00:33 - May 22 with 300 views | ClareBlue |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 21:58 - May 18 by TheBoyBlue |
Firstly to say managers worked out how to beat us by October is harsh. We outthought on the odd occasion, but generally up until the New Year we were hard to beat and picking up points, even more of those should've been wins.
Secondly, this is but a step along a long-term project. He won't change the way we play because the mantra is that we get better at playing that way, not abandon it when the going gets tough.
He'll have learnt from it and what he needs to do to get us to a stage when we can compete playing that way.
The club will have learnt/had reinforced what they need to do to help him in that,such as building up the overseas scouting and improving the academy.
We are generally going in the right direction, but as McKenna himself says, progress isn't always linear. |
Exactly. He won't change the way we are playing for a long term project. Clubs like Ipswich need to change the way they play to do whatever they need to do to survive. Then after 3 years of 100 million investment a year they can start playing a desired style. Established Premiership clubs can set a style but not those new to the league. If you are bottom of the Premiership food chain you need to do whatever it takes to survive. There's no evidence that we did anything other than continue with the same style.
Example - it took 5 matches to show that if you haven't got the top players then playing from the back like we did in league 1 and Championship is a mistake. Premiership players close down much quicker and score when you make a mistake. So why did we continue after 5 matches. We tried to coach it to success but you could coach to breach the difference in player quality but you can do different things. I agree KMc should be given a chance this year but I don't buy into it's a learning process and he'll greatly improve if we get back up. Loosing consistently becomes toxic and a bigger issue than not getting points. It's going to be a challenge to get straight back up. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:32 - May 22 with 209 views | Churchman |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 00:33 - May 22 by ClareBlue |
Exactly. He won't change the way we are playing for a long term project. Clubs like Ipswich need to change the way they play to do whatever they need to do to survive. Then after 3 years of 100 million investment a year they can start playing a desired style. Established Premiership clubs can set a style but not those new to the league. If you are bottom of the Premiership food chain you need to do whatever it takes to survive. There's no evidence that we did anything other than continue with the same style.
Example - it took 5 matches to show that if you haven't got the top players then playing from the back like we did in league 1 and Championship is a mistake. Premiership players close down much quicker and score when you make a mistake. So why did we continue after 5 matches. We tried to coach it to success but you could coach to breach the difference in player quality but you can do different things. I agree KMc should be given a chance this year but I don't buy into it's a learning process and he'll greatly improve if we get back up. Loosing consistently becomes toxic and a bigger issue than not getting points. It's going to be a challenge to get straight back up. |
Of course the Championship is a challenge. Nobody has said it isn’t. Will we have a target on our backs? Yes. Good, because that means other teams will be worried about us. In theory we should have better players than most sides so they should be worried. It’s up to us to take that expectation and use it in our favour
So back to this season, with the players he had, how could they have played differently? Goalkeeper launch? They tried that at times and all that happened was the ball came straight back. Lose possession in the PL is death. You don’t see the ball again for an age, even against weaker sides.
Launch it with more support for knock downs? Good luck with that given the size of most teams and the speed the counter. Load midfield. Possible, but with who and what do you sacrifice? What do you do when they’ve cut through your loaded midfield as the likes of Newcastle with better, bigger, faster players inevitably will.
I think that if you believe in a passing style of playing that you are convinced works at the top level, stay with your beliefs. I think the way KM sets a team up will work. You just need better players to do it. In turn, better players will be more flexible in what they can do.
As for learning process, as a young manager he will have learned far more from this season that at any time in his coaching career. He will have truly learned about his coaches and players too. Who has substance, who hasn’t. It’s no different to any walk of life. You only truly do that when times are tough. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 07:39 - May 22 with 193 views | DJR |
I think we should stick with McKenna for as long as he's prepared to stay here, and that is regardless of whether we get promoted next season, which is not a given. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:18 - May 22 with 165 views | Smoresy |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 20:39 - May 18 by blueasfook |
£130m thrown at it is no measly sum. You have to agree the signings we've made have been miss more than hit. Who takes responsibility for that? |
You don't survive this league with a squad worth £200m. You may survive spending less than we have but you'd need to find enormous value everywhere, or begin from a far stronger position.
I'm a bit surprised how anyone missed the difference in quality between us and our promotion colleagues last season, to be honest. Heroic resilience against Saints and Leicester successfully hid the performance disparities in those games at times, maybe. Leeds squashed us like a bug.
The problem with our recruitment this season is that we spent £130m on players who are now worth around £130m. That closes the gap with Leicester but obviously not Wolves. | | | |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:24 - May 22 with 152 views | pointofblue |
| Baffling the anti McKenna stuff creeping in on 08:18 - May 22 by Smoresy |
You don't survive this league with a squad worth £200m. You may survive spending less than we have but you'd need to find enormous value everywhere, or begin from a far stronger position.
I'm a bit surprised how anyone missed the difference in quality between us and our promotion colleagues last season, to be honest. Heroic resilience against Saints and Leicester successfully hid the performance disparities in those games at times, maybe. Leeds squashed us like a bug.
The problem with our recruitment this season is that we spent £130m on players who are now worth around £130m. That closes the gap with Leicester but obviously not Wolves. |
This is another thing which should give us hope for next season. Whilst the results were worse against Leicester and Southampton this year, the performances were better. We probably deserved two points at most from those four games in 23/24. This year we should have claimed at least eight. We somehow broke through last season. We didn't this time round. [Post edited 22 May 8:24]
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