| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week 18:31 - May 30 with 11258 views | onceablue |
Slagging off Nigel Farage
Who are his PR Advisors?
I would be telling him not to even mention Farage. An election is at least 4 years away he should be concentrating on his party and his policies.
The speech he made at that factory is the sort of speech you make the week before an election
Everytime he mentions Farage it just strengthens the Reform Leader’s position
Reform is not the answer for this Country but Starmer is making this unlikely outcome a real possibility
Even the press have started to take the mickey out of Starmer
That
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:34 - May 31 with 1362 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:29 - May 31 by Mullet |
I’m not sure Jones is a good source. Apart from being a bit of a prick at times, his own embarrassing attempts to gain prominence under Corbyn has left him tarnished and discredited.
I’ve been disappointed to hear Starmer take on board the rhetoric, but it at least seems part of an ongoing attack on the Turqoise terrorists at home. I’d like to see Labour bring the greens to the fore. It wouldn’t split their vote, and the nonsense spited about net zero would be their wheelhouse.
One thing that we all need to get used to is that the Tories aren’t the natural enemy of Labour or the British public anymore. That explains a lot of what we are seeing in the last six months. |
I am no fan of Owen Jones and posted this as it was the only link I could find for the second video which contains Margaret Hodge speaking in what was presumably a documentary. [Post edited 31 May 12:35]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:44 - May 31 with 1329 views | Mullet |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:34 - May 31 by DJR |
I am no fan of Owen Jones and posted this as it was the only link I could find for the second video which contains Margaret Hodge speaking in what was presumably a documentary. [Post edited 31 May 12:35]
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I think that that shows the toxicity of Corbyn and his acolytes is still poisoning the margins of Labour and a sideshow from a much bigger existential and ideological threat. We’ve seen what being ideological over practical gets the left, and it’s the reason we are picking up the pieces of the damage wrought by unchecked Tory corruption.
Farage and other fascists like him are not concerned with lying, going back on their word and making gestures. Engaging with that and holding them to account is going to be more effective than sitting in a political silo, that’s the problem we are facing now.
Until the radicalised and racist elements of the population can be sidelined, the middle ground is place to be. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:48 - May 31 with 1305 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:44 - May 31 by Mullet |
I think that that shows the toxicity of Corbyn and his acolytes is still poisoning the margins of Labour and a sideshow from a much bigger existential and ideological threat. We’ve seen what being ideological over practical gets the left, and it’s the reason we are picking up the pieces of the damage wrought by unchecked Tory corruption.
Farage and other fascists like him are not concerned with lying, going back on their word and making gestures. Engaging with that and holding them to account is going to be more effective than sitting in a political silo, that’s the problem we are facing now.
Until the radicalised and racist elements of the population can be sidelined, the middle ground is place to be. |
Corbyn hasn't been leader for 5 years.
McSweeney and co have (undemocratically) stitched up the selection process. Members have all left. So how are they poisoning?
The Labour right are going to have to own this. It's their doing. And if this is them doing the 'middle ground', it's not worked has it? |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:07 - May 31 with 1249 views | Mullet |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:48 - May 31 by jasondozzell |
Corbyn hasn't been leader for 5 years.
McSweeney and co have (undemocratically) stitched up the selection process. Members have all left. So how are they poisoning?
The Labour right are going to have to own this. It's their doing. And if this is them doing the 'middle ground', it's not worked has it? |
Thatchers not been leader of the Tories for decades but would you argue her legacy, memory and leadership aren’t constant touchstones of the party?
People leaving and then staying silent or withholding criticism simply hasn’t happened has it? There are still plenty of people who never got over how bad Jezza was, or how misguided they were. It’s hardly a complex or left field point to grasp. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:20 - May 31 with 1232 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:07 - May 31 by Mullet |
Thatchers not been leader of the Tories for decades but would you argue her legacy, memory and leadership aren’t constant touchstones of the party?
People leaving and then staying silent or withholding criticism simply hasn’t happened has it? There are still plenty of people who never got over how bad Jezza was, or how misguided they were. It’s hardly a complex or left field point to grasp. |
So the catastrophe of the McSweeney/Starmer project is... Corbyn's fault?! | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:35 - May 31 with 1196 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 12:44 - May 31 by Mullet |
I think that that shows the toxicity of Corbyn and his acolytes is still poisoning the margins of Labour and a sideshow from a much bigger existential and ideological threat. We’ve seen what being ideological over practical gets the left, and it’s the reason we are picking up the pieces of the damage wrought by unchecked Tory corruption.
Farage and other fascists like him are not concerned with lying, going back on their word and making gestures. Engaging with that and holding them to account is going to be more effective than sitting in a political silo, that’s the problem we are facing now.
Until the radicalised and racist elements of the population can be sidelined, the middle ground is place to be. |
But the middle ground has to stand for something, and at present it is not really clear what that is. That is a big factor in the Labour vote (small by General election standards) falling by a third and going largely to the Lib Dems and Greens, or people just giving up on voting at all.
Throw in things like cuts to disability benefits, and it is almost as if Labour are happy to lose large sections of people who might have voted for them.
I might add that our Labour membership secretary, who is disabled, almost resigned from the Labour Party about 12 years ago when Reeves had a go at people on benefits. These days, especially with the proposed cuts, I can't imagine him ever voting Labour again. [Post edited 31 May 13:37]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:53 - May 31 with 1171 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 04:50 - May 31 by Benters |
The most hated PM ever I’ve seen it said. |
Not quite. It’s his own favourability rating that’s dropped to its lowest point, according to YouGov anyway. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52187-political-favourability-ratings-may Sunak, Truss and Johnson all sunk much lower.
The other thing that stands out from the YouGov survey is that his attempt to appeal to Reform voters is failing miserably. He’s making no inroads into support from them while simultaneously losing far more Labour voters.
Worryingly for UK politics (edit, because we need a viable, strong opposition), he’s still viewed as the person most suited to be PM out of all the main political parties. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52251-who-would-be-the-best-prime-ministe
I’ve no idea how accurate those YouGov polls are. [Post edited 31 May 13:57]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:04 - May 31 with 1153 views | Mullet |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:20 - May 31 by jasondozzell |
So the catastrophe of the McSweeney/Starmer project is... Corbyn's fault?! |
No, but your refusal to acknowledge something so simple and calling Starmer a catastrophe highlights exactly the issue at hand. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:07 - May 31 with 1140 views | Mullet |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 13:35 - May 31 by DJR |
But the middle ground has to stand for something, and at present it is not really clear what that is. That is a big factor in the Labour vote (small by General election standards) falling by a third and going largely to the Lib Dems and Greens, or people just giving up on voting at all.
Throw in things like cuts to disability benefits, and it is almost as if Labour are happy to lose large sections of people who might have voted for them.
I might add that our Labour membership secretary, who is disabled, almost resigned from the Labour Party about 12 years ago when Reeves had a go at people on benefits. These days, especially with the proposed cuts, I can't imagine him ever voting Labour again. [Post edited 31 May 13:37]
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I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think winning by such a margin is also a problem they are struggling with. Lots of those voters won’t be natural Labour voters but expect something for it. Usually people assume something as a personal as a vote means they deserve rewards tailored to them. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:09 - May 31 with 1131 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:04 - May 31 by Mullet |
No, but your refusal to acknowledge something so simple and calling Starmer a catastrophe highlights exactly the issue at hand. |
He’s a bit underwhelming, but there’s obviously a schism amongst Labour supporters that doesn’t look like it’s going to go away any time soon (and certainly not while Starmer continues to embrace populist policies that are normally the preserve of the right). | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:23 - May 31 with 1104 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:07 - May 31 by Mullet |
I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think winning by such a margin is also a problem they are struggling with. Lots of those voters won’t be natural Labour voters but expect something for it. Usually people assume something as a personal as a vote means they deserve rewards tailored to them. |
But that goes back to the point I made earlier, namely that the Ming vase election strategy wasn't one that won over people to Labour.
At a time when the Tories were incredibly unpopular, Labour really ought to have done much better.
And it seems to me that Labour in government is suffering the consequences of its election strategy, and in particular the absence of a compelling narrative: a position made worse by some unwise decisions from a political point of view. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:26 - May 31 with 1100 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:09 - May 31 by Swansea_Blue |
He’s a bit underwhelming, but there’s obviously a schism amongst Labour supporters that doesn’t look like it’s going to go away any time soon (and certainly not while Starmer continues to embrace populist policies that are normally the preserve of the right). |
It's not just his supporters. Even many Labour MPs seem troubled by the direction of travel and some of the policies, especially the welfare cuts.
EDIT: LBC reported this yesterday.
Cuts to sickness benefits will worsen the health of disabled people as much as the cost of living crisis, The Health Foundation think tank has reported.
Independent researchers have found that Labour’s £4.8 billion welfare cuts are likely to damage the health of vulnerable people more than any measures since George Osborne’s £12 billion of savings in 2015, at the height of austerity.
The cuts would make it harder to claim disability benefits and cut rates of incapacity benefits, reducing the income of more than three million people.
According to The Times, experts have urged ministers to pay more attention to the health effects of the reforms.
Sir Keir Starmer has already been challenged by more than 170 backbenchers about cuts to benefits and winter fuel payments, with the MPs demanding official assessments of the impact before a vote expected next month.
Ministers have resisted publishing internal estimates.
However, analysts at the Health Foundation think tank used a methodology developed by government officials to conclude that the cuts would have “a really significant impact” on the health of disabled people.
“The government must learn the lessons from the cost-of-living crisis, which had a disproportionate impact on people living with disabilities, with typical incomes for disabled people falling by 11 per cent in real terms,” said Dave Finch, who led the research.
He continued: “By October 2023, over a half of disabled people reported worse mental health due to the financial impact, and a third couldn’t afford to eat adequately. The financial consequences of the planned cuts to disability and health benefits are of a similar scale, if not greater for some, which suggests a comparable effect on people’s health is likely.”
FURTHER EDIT: here's a link to a summary of the Health Foundation report. It is also worth point out that if the cuts impact health, this will impact the NHS: not very joined up government, leaving aside any element of unfairness.
https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/blogs/welfare-reforms-risk-damagi [Post edited 31 May 14:42]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:26 - May 31 with 1099 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:04 - May 31 by Mullet |
No, but your refusal to acknowledge something so simple and calling Starmer a catastrophe highlights exactly the issue at hand. |
Acknowledge what?
Genuinely intrigued by what you think of Starmer. If it's not been a catastrophe, what has it been? | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:29 - May 31 with 1093 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:07 - May 31 by Mullet |
I don’t disagree with any of that, but I think winning by such a margin is also a problem they are struggling with. Lots of those voters won’t be natural Labour voters but expect something for it. Usually people assume something as a personal as a vote means they deserve rewards tailored to them. |
An alternative idea is to have some principles and a plan for government which is coherent. | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:32 - May 31 with 1085 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:26 - May 31 by DJR |
It's not just his supporters. Even many Labour MPs seem troubled by the direction of travel and some of the policies, especially the welfare cuts.
EDIT: LBC reported this yesterday.
Cuts to sickness benefits will worsen the health of disabled people as much as the cost of living crisis, The Health Foundation think tank has reported.
Independent researchers have found that Labour’s £4.8 billion welfare cuts are likely to damage the health of vulnerable people more than any measures since George Osborne’s £12 billion of savings in 2015, at the height of austerity.
The cuts would make it harder to claim disability benefits and cut rates of incapacity benefits, reducing the income of more than three million people.
According to The Times, experts have urged ministers to pay more attention to the health effects of the reforms.
Sir Keir Starmer has already been challenged by more than 170 backbenchers about cuts to benefits and winter fuel payments, with the MPs demanding official assessments of the impact before a vote expected next month.
Ministers have resisted publishing internal estimates.
However, analysts at the Health Foundation think tank used a methodology developed by government officials to conclude that the cuts would have “a really significant impact” on the health of disabled people.
“The government must learn the lessons from the cost-of-living crisis, which had a disproportionate impact on people living with disabilities, with typical incomes for disabled people falling by 11 per cent in real terms,” said Dave Finch, who led the research.
He continued: “By October 2023, over a half of disabled people reported worse mental health due to the financial impact, and a third couldn’t afford to eat adequately. The financial consequences of the planned cuts to disability and health benefits are of a similar scale, if not greater for some, which suggests a comparable effect on people’s health is likely.”
FURTHER EDIT: here's a link to a summary of the Health Foundation report. It is also worth point out that if the cuts impact health, this will impact the NHS: not very joined up government, leaving aside any element of unfairness.
https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/blogs/welfare-reforms-risk-damagi [Post edited 31 May 14:42]
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Rightly so. And I’m not surprised to hear it. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:10 - May 31 with 1012 views | Benters |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:35 - May 31 by reusersfreekicks |
Which comic did you read that in |
Reform Monthly.
I get it sent to me being a member of the Reform party and all that. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:03 - May 31 with 946 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:26 - May 31 by DJR |
It's not just his supporters. Even many Labour MPs seem troubled by the direction of travel and some of the policies, especially the welfare cuts.
EDIT: LBC reported this yesterday.
Cuts to sickness benefits will worsen the health of disabled people as much as the cost of living crisis, The Health Foundation think tank has reported.
Independent researchers have found that Labour’s £4.8 billion welfare cuts are likely to damage the health of vulnerable people more than any measures since George Osborne’s £12 billion of savings in 2015, at the height of austerity.
The cuts would make it harder to claim disability benefits and cut rates of incapacity benefits, reducing the income of more than three million people.
According to The Times, experts have urged ministers to pay more attention to the health effects of the reforms.
Sir Keir Starmer has already been challenged by more than 170 backbenchers about cuts to benefits and winter fuel payments, with the MPs demanding official assessments of the impact before a vote expected next month.
Ministers have resisted publishing internal estimates.
However, analysts at the Health Foundation think tank used a methodology developed by government officials to conclude that the cuts would have “a really significant impact” on the health of disabled people.
“The government must learn the lessons from the cost-of-living crisis, which had a disproportionate impact on people living with disabilities, with typical incomes for disabled people falling by 11 per cent in real terms,” said Dave Finch, who led the research.
He continued: “By October 2023, over a half of disabled people reported worse mental health due to the financial impact, and a third couldn’t afford to eat adequately. The financial consequences of the planned cuts to disability and health benefits are of a similar scale, if not greater for some, which suggests a comparable effect on people’s health is likely.”
FURTHER EDIT: here's a link to a summary of the Health Foundation report. It is also worth point out that if the cuts impact health, this will impact the NHS: not very joined up government, leaving aside any element of unfairness.
https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/blogs/welfare-reforms-risk-damagi [Post edited 31 May 14:42]
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Interesting edit. It sounds a bit similar to refusing to increase the child benefit cap, but in that case it’s to do with the additional tax extra government spending would raise effectively paying for the cap to be lifted. Similar principle in that someone in Labour is only considering the short term political optics and not the impacts of the policy/intervention.
If governments can’t govern in the country’s best interest because they fear the resulting headlines we’re in a bit of a pickle. | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 17:14 - May 31 with 944 views | J2BLUE |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 16:10 - May 31 by Benters |
Reform Monthly.
I get it sent to me being a member of the Reform party and all that. |
You only have to look to America to see how this country would act under Farage.
There are millions of people in America right now terrified about losing access to health care as he goes after Medicaid and Medicare.
Reform have said they won't change the NHS but Farage has repeatedly said (mainly when he isn't aware he's being filmed giving speeches for example) that he's open to an insurance model. Once they are in power there is nothing we can do to stop it. They will dismantle the NHS and public services. Those will be for the people who can pay and the tax cuts will be passed on to the most wealthy.
Don't fall for it. Reform couldn't care less about you. Once they have your vote they won't give you a second thought. Look at how Farage doesn't bother representing his constituents.
There are many videos on Youtube of Trump voters who can't believe their vote has made their lives worse.
Next time you or your family need a GP appointment it could cost three figures. God forbid anything more serious.
By trying to upset all the right people you will screw over all the wrong people. |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:35 - Jun 1 with 714 views | Mullet |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 14:23 - May 31 by DJR |
But that goes back to the point I made earlier, namely that the Ming vase election strategy wasn't one that won over people to Labour.
At a time when the Tories were incredibly unpopular, Labour really ought to have done much better.
And it seems to me that Labour in government is suffering the consequences of its election strategy, and in particular the absence of a compelling narrative: a position made worse by some unwise decisions from a political point of view. |
I dunno what "better" looks like. In terms of winning the election could there have been a better result?
Darth before he was banned, and jasondozzell in this thread are demonstrating the pitfalls of ideological purity on the left. The impotent rage at Corbyn's failure still lingers and Starmer has seen most of his worst attacks from these areas.
I'm not sure you can build a "package" that speaks to that many people as mentioned before. What's important is where this parliament finishes and you can't foresee the mess inherited being gone in two or three terms can you? | |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:05 - Jun 1 with 651 views | StokieBlue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:36 - May 31 by Benters |
Nigel will sort it.
See it
Say it
Sorted. |
How will he sort it?
You say this stuff all the time but you never provide examples, policies or any information.
It's just rubbish soundbites - it's the full Trump playbook.
Farage doesn't care about you and it'll be a sad day for the country if he gets into power and you finally realise this but you'll understand it's too late.
SB |  | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:06 - Jun 1 with 649 views | StokieBlue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 04:50 - May 31 by Benters |
The most hated PM ever I’ve seen it said. |
Said by whom?
Once again, a Trumpian soundbite with no evidence or supporting information.
SB | | | |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:33 - Jun 1 with 607 views | jasondozzell |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:35 - Jun 1 by Mullet |
I dunno what "better" looks like. In terms of winning the election could there have been a better result?
Darth before he was banned, and jasondozzell in this thread are demonstrating the pitfalls of ideological purity on the left. The impotent rage at Corbyn's failure still lingers and Starmer has seen most of his worst attacks from these areas.
I'm not sure you can build a "package" that speaks to that many people as mentioned before. What's important is where this parliament finishes and you can't foresee the mess inherited being gone in two or three terms can you? |
I'm sorry, but comments like these just sound desperate. It's nothing to do with ideological purity. If we must talk about him as you seem to insist we do, I think Corbyn's offering of mild democratic socialism would have gone a lot further to begin to fix this country imo and he was wrecked with breathtakingly immoral and cynical antisemism smears by the press and the Labour right. It's quite ironic to talk about any element of factionalism within the Labour party without acknowledging that Starmer and McSweeney project was the worst culprit of all!
But put aside Corbyn since he has fried people's brains. What is remotely positive about a Labour government in which the leadership was elected through deliberate lies, that has no principles, that has attacked the most vulnerable through cuts, cosied up to BlackRock, supported a genocide, and offered no solution to country's ills other than vague promises of growth without any coherent plan? They boxed themselves into a corner with the fiscal rules routine and there isn't anywhere for them to go.
It isn't 1997. Rerunning third way Blairism isn't going to work in a completely different context. It's been Emperor's new clothes since the very start. Starmer and co are deeply unimpressive operators.
Starmer is not receiving 'most' of his attacks from the Labour left (if such a thing exists anymore) anyway. He's deeply unpopular with the whole country and every demographic. His actions are only locking in a Reform government in 2029.
We were told it was grown ups back in the room with Starmer and centrists wrestling back control of the party. How's that working out? [Post edited 1 Jun 10:35]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:34 - Jun 1 with 607 views | DJR |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 08:35 - Jun 1 by Mullet |
I dunno what "better" looks like. In terms of winning the election could there have been a better result?
Darth before he was banned, and jasondozzell in this thread are demonstrating the pitfalls of ideological purity on the left. The impotent rage at Corbyn's failure still lingers and Starmer has seen most of his worst attacks from these areas.
I'm not sure you can build a "package" that speaks to that many people as mentioned before. What's important is where this parliament finishes and you can't foresee the mess inherited being gone in two or three terms can you? |
Better for me meanings building a bedrock of support, which 33.7% of the vote at the General Election (one percentage point higher than in 2019) is not.
As it is, I don't see it as a binary choice between Corbynism and Starmerism, which is how it is always portrayed. Just a little bit more hope of a little bit of European social democracy would do it for me. And it is not just me. Two fellow Labour committee members who were never Corbynistas have (like me) left the party, with the danger that many like-minded people will drift off to the Greens or perhaps Lib Dems.
And when it comes to Starmer, attacks from the left get very little publicity. The attacks on him have come from the right wing media from day one and have been relentless. [Post edited 1 Jun 11:19]
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:33 - Jun 1 with 522 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 10:34 - Jun 1 by DJR |
Better for me meanings building a bedrock of support, which 33.7% of the vote at the General Election (one percentage point higher than in 2019) is not.
As it is, I don't see it as a binary choice between Corbynism and Starmerism, which is how it is always portrayed. Just a little bit more hope of a little bit of European social democracy would do it for me. And it is not just me. Two fellow Labour committee members who were never Corbynistas have (like me) left the party, with the danger that many like-minded people will drift off to the Greens or perhaps Lib Dems.
And when it comes to Starmer, attacks from the left get very little publicity. The attacks on him have come from the right wing media from day one and have been relentless. [Post edited 1 Jun 11:19]
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There are so many marginal seats, held by Labour, it wouldn’t take much a move from Labour to Greens or LibDems to see a complete disaster come the next election.
https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/defence/labour |  |
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| Keir Starmer looked a desperate man this week on 11:54 - Jun 1 with 489 views | DJR |
Absolutely. And if Labour could win on 33.7% of the vote, so could Reform. | | | |
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